Would you guys do this trade? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

AxdemxO · 08-30-2006, 11:41 AM

Yupp great point

Five-ofan · 08-30-2006, 11:53 AM

has nothing to do with anything i just wanted to post it.

AxdemxO · 08-30-2006, 02:10 PM

Hahhha...good one...i loved that block

Nash13 · 08-30-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Actually, Odom is a forward in general. He can play both about equally. The thing is odom is a better passer and defender tha dirk but the passing margin is alot smaller and the defense margin is about the same. Dirk and odom are roughly equivalent rebounders and dirk is a VASTLY superior scorer. Essentially dirk has a huge edge in a category whereas i could make the argument that odom is better at literally everything than josh.

I dont think hes better at everything, i think josh is a better scorer and set shooter but im just saying there is nothing that josh has a huge edge in the way dirk does in scoring.

Well statistically the Lakers are better offensively and defensively when Odom plays the 4.

And as far as numbers go, Odom's always been a better rebounder, and WAY better passer (Dirk is nowhere near the passer Odom is). And as far as defense goes, you seriously underrate Josh's defense when you say Odom is a better defender by a fairly sizeable margin and then turn around and say he and Dirk are on par with each other.

FYI, Josh has quite the distance offensively when he can get 15 and half per game in 32.5mpg where as it takes Odom nearly 41mpg to average 14.8.

And for the record, i think Odom is the overall more talented player, but i don't think it's by the wide margin you think.

Five-ofan · 08-30-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash13

Well statistically the Lakers are better offensively and defensively when Odom plays the 4.

And as far as numbers go, Odom's always been a better rebounder, and WAY better passer (Dirk is nowhere near the passer Odom is). And as far as defense goes, you seriously underrate Josh's defense when you say Odom is a better defender by a fairly sizeable margin and then turn around and say he and Dirk are on par with each other.

FYI, Josh has quite the distance offensively when he can get 15 and half per game in 32.5mpg where as it takes Odom nearly 41mpg to average 14.8.

And for the record, i think Odom is the overall more talented player, but i don't think it's by the wide margin you think.

I dont think josh is signifigantly if any better than dirk defensively. Both are good enough defenders that they arent weaknesses but neither is a strength. The difference is the direction they went to get to that point. Josh started out as better than he is now. dirk started out horrendously and has progressed. Come up with anything besides just josh is better and we can debate it but i doubt seriously you will find what you are looking for. As for passing, yes Odom is better but its not like were comparing steve nash and eddy curry here as far as passing. Dirk has always average a good deal lower turnovers as well.

Edit- Odom has also proven that he can be the lead scorer on a team and i believe his scoring is actually hurt by having kobe because he has the ball so darn much whereas Josh's scoring is pretty much unquestionably helped by dirk.

AxdemxO · 08-30-2006, 11:32 PM

Odom is basically a superstar who is being held back by Kobe having the ball so much.

I honestly believe if you switch Dirk and Odom...Dallas will get a lil worse but still be a good team and the Lakers well, Kobe would to the same thing to Dirk and they wouldnt be much better.

Five-ofan · 08-30-2006, 11:36 PM

Woah, tap the breaks there sir. I love odom but he and dirk arent close. Dirk and kobe would be easily the scariest tandom in the league and imo would win probably 5 titles in a row. The mavs with odom instead of dirk MIGHT win 47 games if they were lucky.

nashtymavsfan13 · 08-31-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Odom is basically a superstar who is being held back by Kobe having the ball so much.

I honestly believe if you switch Dirk and Odom...Dallas will get a lil worse but still be a good team and the Lakers well, Kobe would to the same thing to Dirk and they wouldnt be much better.

Woah, woah. If Dirk goes to the Lakers they instantly are one of the most legit contenders. If Odom switches with Dirk that Mavs are a low seeded playoff team with no shot at a title.

Don't be comparing Odom to Dirk. They don't even belong in the same sentence.

Nash13 · 08-31-2006, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I dont think josh is signifigantly if any better than dirk defensively. Both are good enough defenders that they arent weaknesses but neither is a strength. The difference is the direction they went to get to that point. Josh started out as better than he is now. dirk started out horrendously and has progressed. Come up with anything besides just josh is better and we can debate it but i doubt seriously you will find what you are looking for. As for passing, yes Odom is better but its not like were comparing steve nash and eddy curry here as far as passing. Dirk has always average a good deal lower turnovers as well.

Well i never said Josh is a significantly better defensive player than dirk, you indirectly said dirk's defense was better by a fairly sizeable margin by saying Dirk was on par with Odom.

I don't think Howard is the stopper the media can try to make him out to be, but i do think he is better than Dirk. Howard is assigned to guard scoring guards and small forwards whereas Dirk guards the weakest offensive threat in the frontcourt. I'm not saying that's a bad thing because with the exception of maybe the Suns with Marion, teams in general are starting to do put their star players on the weaker players to avoid foul trouble. That's fine, but it's not really fair to compare Dirk defensively to Howard when he guards the likes of Udonis Haslem and Bruce Bowen/Robert Horry.

As for passing, it's more like comparing Nash to Iverson. Sure Iverson(Dirk) is a good passer, but he doesn't do it nearly as fluid or good as Nash (Odom).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Edit- Odom has also proven that he can be the lead scorer on a team and i believe his scoring is actually hurt by having kobe because he has the ball so darn much whereas Josh's scoring is pretty much unquestionably helped by dirk.

Exactly what team would that be? His highest scoring average in a season was 17.3ppg. I assume the team you are referring to is the 03-04 Heat team. The same team who's rookie guard average just less than point than Odom, and the same team that couldn't win a road game in the playoffs.

Five-ofan · 08-31-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash13

Well i never said Josh is a significantly better defensive player than dirk, you indirectly said dirk's defense was better by a fairly sizeable margin by saying Dirk was on par with Odom.

I don't think Howard is the stopper the media can try to make him out to be, but i do think he is better than Dirk. Howard is assigned to guard scoring guards and small forwards whereas Dirk guards the weakest offensive threat in the frontcourt. I'm not saying that's a bad thing because with the exception of maybe the Suns with Marion, teams in general are starting to do put their star players on the weaker players to avoid foul trouble. That's fine, but it's not really fair to compare Dirk defensively to Howard when he guards the likes of Udonis Haslem and Bruce Bowen/Robert Horry.

As for passing, it's more like comparing Nash to Iverson. Sure Iverson(Dirk) is a good passer, but he doesn't do it nearly as fluid or good as Nash (Odom).

Exactly what team would that be? His highest scoring average in a season was 17.3ppg. I assume the team you are referring to is the 03-04 Heat team. The same team who's rookie guard average just less than point than Odom, and the same team that couldn't win a road game in the playoffs.

that team also made the second round of the playoffs. I never said dirk was equivalent to odom defensively. I said the difference between dirk and odom and josh and odom is equivalent. Thus implying that josh and dirk are equivalent not dirk and odom.

Nash13 · 08-31-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

that team also made the second round of the playoffs. I never said dirk was equivalent to odom defensively. I said the difference between dirk and odom and josh and odom is equivalent. Thus implying that josh and dirk are equivalent not dirk and odom.

They were in the eastern conference and struggled to win against a team that struggled to get to .500. And i did misread your comments about Josh and Dirk.

Five-ofan · 08-31-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash13

They were in the eastern conference and struggled to win against a team that struggled to get to .500. And i did misread your comments about Josh and Dirk.

I kinda worded it weird too so no biggy their. I think that a team with Josh as its best player would have an absolute ceiling of 35 wins and not making the playoffs and that is in the east. Odom obviously has a higher ceiling and the age differential isnt very big either. The ability to be a lead scorer isnt as big of a deal due to dirk and the fact that neither is asked to be though. I love odom but its not like he is just miles and miles above josh or anything. I think i was the first one that came up with the Josh needs to get good enough offensively to beat 4s when people put 3s on dirks theory. He has so im thrilled. I just wish he could defend half as well as he has a rep for defending and maybe learn to pass a little and i would be even more thrilled. I think Odom does both of those things plus being able to beat 4s so i would be even more thrilled with him than with josh.