would you trade josh howard for tracy mcgrady? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

antoinewalker · 01-04-2008, 06:01 PM

now this isn't a trade that i am seriously proposing but the topic came up between me and a few friends so i thought it'd be interesting to hear your opinion as well. i've asked this question to a few of my friends. one of my friends (who is a rockets fan) said he would trade tmac for josh howard. i've also asked some of my friends who are mavericks fans and they also said they would do the trade. assuming tmac can stay healthy, he would obviously be better than josh howard and every maverick fan would be in favor of that trade and every rocket fan would oppose it, however, due to the fragility of tmac and his apparent decline from his days in orlando, the answer isn't so clear cut. it basically becomes a matter of whether or not you want a player who will stay healthy, play nearly every game of the season, and give you 20 and 7 or a player who will give you 25, 5, and 5 and play 75% of the season.

what do you guys think?

skylive321 · 01-04-2008, 06:10 PM

Um...let me see.. lingering injury prone ex-rocket superstar for one of our young and promising stars.. really difficult choice, yet such an easy answer.. NO.. and yes, i speak for the mavs fan base. No.. wait, i'll try it again.. No. Yep. Seems definite. No.

jthig32 · 01-04-2008, 06:17 PM

Interesting thought. Given TMAc's fragile nature, I think I'd have to say no, but I'd still think about it.

me770706 · 01-04-2008, 06:23 PM

no way.. josh's ceiling is huge while tmac's window is slowly closing because the nagging injuries. also, i dont think tmac has the killer instinct and josh is turning into the leader of this team

dalmations202 · 01-04-2008, 06:35 PM

I'd think about it, but probably say no.

Now I might do it in a package deal, but not straight up.

Robillion · 01-04-2008, 07:02 PM

now would i trade away terry, stackhouse, and whomever else besides dirk/harris/howard.. yes. sure thing.

i was thinking about it today.. there are actually quite a few big names out there that might want a trade/need to be traded, ect... but for me i would only really think about kobe (or Lebron of course if he was ever at all available) when it came to tradeing away any piece of the new Dallas big three

Underdog · 01-04-2008, 07:53 PM

Are you crazy??? It would take at least Dirk, Josh, Devin, and at least one future 1st round draft pick - Tmac is a god and should be worshiped like one...

Also, smoking crack rules!

u2sarajevo · 01-04-2008, 08:43 PM

Wouldn't we be doomed to not get out of the 1st round if he were traded to us?

Janett_Reno · 01-04-2008, 08:44 PM

No. McGrady is hurt alot and like one said in here, his time is getting where he needs to win a title soon. Great talent but it was even some rumors lately when they strat breaking Houston up. If they can't win with what they have now? Will they ever win?

Howard has alot of years ahead of him.

Robillion · 01-04-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Wouldn't we be doomed to not get out of the 1st round if he were traded to us?

haha yeah i was just thinking of that.. but we'll lose to portland this time around.

skylive321 · 01-04-2008, 09:05 PM

Tracy McGrady has been banged up most of this season. Recently he was being treated for a knee bruise that caused him to miss time on and off for the last few weeks. Initial MRI reports were optimistic, but McGrady continued to have pain and talked about missing up to three weeks. The latest MRI revealed a rare, but troublesome injury to his popliteal muscle. This small muscle is located deep in the knee joint predominantly on the outside of the knee. You can strain it from direct contact to the front of the knee, or from landing awkwardly on a straightened knee. Other times tendonitis can develop over time causing aching pain on the outside back part of the knee. It's mainly responsible for rotating the tibia or the femur, depending on whether or not you're weight bearing, and assisting the other larger muscles of the leg with bending and straightening the knee. I know that's confusing, so the important thing to take from this column, again, is caution. The popliteal muscle is very difficult to treat and rehab because of its location and limited use in major lower extremity movement. Basically it's difficult to stretch, it's difficult to strengthen. As a result, he'll rest. Team officials are saying it's a 3 to 4 week injury. Since he's already been out the better part of the last month, they are optimistic he'll be back soon, but you never know. Figure his activity to be very limited until next week, then he'll test it by running, and finally, playing. If he feels good, he'll play; if not, he'll sit. Time will have to tell. He missed an average of more than 20 games the last two seasons, and the latest knee injury assures him of missing at least another 10 this season

Robillion · 01-04-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylive321

Tracy McGrady has been banged up most of this season. Recently he was being treated for a knee bruise that caused him to miss time on and off for the last few weeks. Initial MRI reports were optimistic, but McGrady continued to have pain and talked about missing up to three weeks. The latest MRI revealed a rare, but troublesome injury to his popliteal muscle. This small muscle is located deep in the knee joint predominantly on the outside of the knee. You can strain it from direct contact to the front of the knee, or from landing awkwardly on a straightened knee. Other times tendonitis can develop over time causing aching pain on the outside back part of the knee. It's mainly responsible for rotating the tibia or the femur, depending on whether or not you're weight bearing, and assisting the other larger muscles of the leg with bending and straightening the knee. I know that's confusing, so the important thing to take from this column, again, is caution. The popliteal muscle is very difficult to treat and rehab because of its location and limited use in major lower extremity movement. Basically it's difficult to stretch, it's difficult to strengthen. As a result, he'll rest. Team officials are saying it's a 3 to 4 week injury. Since he's already been out the better part of the last month, they are optimistic he'll be back soon, but you never know. Figure his activity to be very limited until next week, then he'll test it by running, and finally, playing. If he feels good, he'll play; if not, he'll sit. Time will have to tell. He missed an average of more than 20 games the last two seasons, and the latest knee injury assures him of missing at least another 10 this season

what are you, WebMD?

skylive321 · 01-04-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

what are you, WebMD?

Yep, what's ur ailment.. Crack?

Robillion · 01-04-2008, 09:17 PM

what's wrong with a lil crack after work every other day or so?

anyways,
i know every team would love having harris/howard/dirk, but we got em and we should keep em. and guess what we have other players that would be grreat on other teams. So we should try to get another starter by dealing a couple of them. Not tearing apart the new dallas big three.

Tokey41 · 01-05-2008, 12:58 AM

Until he gets out of the first round i'm still considering him cursed or just plain hated by God... but if it was anyone besides Dirk/Howard then I would definitely consider it.

Here's the real question... Dirk/Howard/Tmac or KG/Pierce/Allen?

Male30Dan · 01-05-2008, 01:08 AM

Damn. He is a MUCH better player than Howard, but he is so injury prone that it makes it more difficult to pull the trigger.

To be honest, with Dirk's age where it is and his career where it is, (lets be honest - this won't be considered a year where he improved on the previous year), I would say make the trade and let the chips fall where they might.

Howard is good, but he is no where near as talented as a healthy McGrady. Any one of you that says otherwise is a Fing homer. Sure, there is the possibility that he will be injured when you need him most, but roll the dice to get the ring. McGrady is an amazing talent. He is one of the top 10 talents in the NBA when healthy - something Howard isn't even sniffing at this moment.

Dtownsfinest · 01-05-2008, 01:16 AM

If T-Mac wasn't made of peanut butter i'd definately do it. He's a superstar. One of the most talented players in the league. But he's too injury prone. Even then though i'd have to think about it. T-Mac's never missed time in the post season which is when we'd really need him.

Tokey41 · 01-05-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

Damn. He is a MUCH better player than Howard, but he is so injury prone that it makes it more difficult to pull the trigger.

To be honest, with Dirk's age where it is and his career where it is, (lets be honest - this won't be considered a year where he improved on the previous year), I would say make the trade and let the chips fall where they might.

Howard is good, but he is no where near as talented as a healthy McGrady. Any one of you that says otherwise is a Fing homer. Sure, there is the possibility that he will be injured when you need him most, but roll the dice to get the ring. McGrady is an amazing talent. He is one of the top 10 talents in the NBA when healthy - something Howard isn't even sniffing at this moment.

I think his injury history has gotten to the point where you can place him in the same category as Vince Carter in simply sitting out games to defer responsibility from his teams losing record. It's not just being injury prone anymore, it's his lack of heart and dedication to his teams success, and thats the real reason he has never won a playoff series... although God probably does hate him.

It's a tough question. Do you really want that on this team? What if we go on a skid and he says "Uh oh, all eyes are going to be on me" and starts grabbing his back at some random point during what seems like it will become a blowout will it be worth it if he gives it his all during the playoffs (which has never been good enough, even with another superstar)?

One final note... we should keep in mind that Howard was our best player in last years playoff series, it's a shame we didn't get to see more of him in that postseason.

ty · 01-05-2008, 01:46 AM

Increased offense and decreased defense. No thanks.

rabbitproof · 01-05-2008, 03:52 AM

Eh. It's a great trade in a video game but......

... our chemistry, Josh being homegrown and improving every single year make it hard. Plus, Josh is one of the good guys (good character, good fire, good teammate). In the end, it's an easier call than it looks.

AxdemxO · 01-05-2008, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Until he gets out of the first round i'm still considering him cursed or just plain hated by God... but if it was anyone besides Dirk/Howard then I would definitely consider it.

Here's the real question... Dirk/Howard/Tmac or KG/Pierce/Allen?

KG/Pierce/Allen..tht seems very easy to me. Better D, KG > Dirk overall IMO. PP = T Mac...very similar players, Howard mite be better than Allen in certain areas, but with KG and PP, Allen > Howard

ty · 01-05-2008, 05:15 AM

Mavs > KG/Pierce/Allen

January 31st. Book it.

nowhereman · 01-05-2008, 05:31 AM

tmac needs the ball in his hands entirely way too much to work on this team.

ty · 01-05-2008, 05:39 AM

The most overrated superstar.

alby · 01-05-2008, 07:11 AM

the most fragile superstar in the NBA both mentally and physically. mentally being the most important aspect.

the breakdown with this trade is quite simple:
you have one who is already an allstar but still has potential to get better
while the other is already on the decline and has no area of improvement in the near future.

bernardos70 · 01-05-2008, 12:42 PM

I really don't think anyone is arguing with the fact that T-mac is better than J-Ho. It's all about his injuries. His injuries not only keep him out of many games, but they now affect how he plays when he's not injured. He has turned into a jumpshooter, for fear of getting his back injured driving to the basket. And while he's still a pretty good jumpshooter, what made him great was the fact he was a 6'8" guy with great handles who could get to the bucket. He's no longer that IMO.

I'll have Howard, who basically rolls his ankle every other game and sucks it up and stays in the game and helps the team. Plus, he's a lot more intense than T-Mac, who is the definition of soft.

aexchange · 01-05-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

Increased offense and decreased defense. No thanks.

what defense does howard play? howard's "defense" is one of the most laughable things i see get posted on this message board. in regards to the many wonderful years howard has ahead of him, mcgrady is only 11 months older.

Before this season, over the prior 3 seasons, Howard missed 41 games. McGrady missed 50. McGrady is injury prone, but Howard isn't exactly the Cal Ripken of the NBA here.

mcgrady is an infinitely better player, better passer, better distributor, and more explosive all around player. its not even a question as to whether the mavs would pull the trigger on this deal.

AxdemxO · 01-05-2008, 02:29 PM

Uhh IMO Howard is a good defender...

ty · 01-05-2008, 02:50 PM

I think I'd probabl give Josh a 7 in effort on defense and TMac a 4.

My Houston friends seem to agree...

me770706 · 01-06-2008, 02:26 AM

josh would be perfect in that offense, he's so good at spacing and scoring in particular spots and that's exactly what houston can not seem to do

alby · 01-07-2008, 06:25 AM

Josh Howard is not a good defensive player, however on effort--for sure, he rates much higher than T-Mac. Talking to die hard rockets fans, who love T-Mac, the general consensus seem to be Howard > McGrady at this point.

antoinewalker · 01-07-2008, 12:07 PM

i don't know why i didn't think of this earlier but i just added a poll to this thread.

Jack.Kerr · 01-07-2008, 12:57 PM

No.

I hereby propose a poll rating system to be known as the Bowen-Curry scale, where participants rate players' defensive efforts on a scale of 1 to 10, with '1' being Eddy Curry, and '10' being Bruce Bowen.

Alternatively, we could devise a Curry-Crotty-Bowens scale with a range from -5 to +5, where Eddy Curry represents a -5, John Crotty a 0 (he hustled, but to no effect) and Bruce Bowen a +5.

horse900703 · 01-09-2008, 07:26 PM

um.... thats a good question~~
Well Josh is a young player, t-mac have been play for 10 seasons but he gets injury alot~
so i'll say no~~ let Josh play for 2-3 more season he will just like t-mac

MavsX · 01-09-2008, 07:28 PM

F*** NO!

Underdog · 01-09-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horse900703

um.... thats a good question~~
Well Josh is a young player, t-mac have been play for 10 seasons but he gets injury alot~
so i'll say no~~ let Josh play for 2-3 more season he will just like t-mac

You need more Dirk in your sig~~~

Dirkadirkastan · 01-10-2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horse900703

um.... thats a good question~~
Well Josh is a young player, t-mac have been play for 10 seasons but he gets injury alot~
so i'll say no~~ let Josh play for 2-3 more season he will just like t-mac

Good post.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-10-2008, 05:25 AM

Would you trade one player for a better player?

Anyone who actually answered no is kidding themselves.

Robillion · 01-10-2008, 07:31 AM

Josh has more future years of being a better player than McGrady, he has a better attitude, he works well in Dallas's system and has chemistry with everyone, and Dallas's main source of tuffness.... would I trade that away for someone who is less skill going into the future, wont work well in Dallas's system, likely would not fit well with Dallas, has a losing attitude, and would be Dallas's main source of emotional/physical softness? .. hell no. /thread

skylive321 · 01-10-2008, 02:31 PM

Trading Tracy McGrady
by Henry Abbott
January 8, 2008 12:28 PM

The Rockets seem to still be stuck in a bit of a jam. They have what everybody wants -- a quality big man in his prime. They also have some excellent role players, and one of the game's top perimeter stars. But, as the clock ticks on all of those players, they continue to lack a clear solution at point guard, and most importantly, they continue not to win as much as they hope to.

At some point, you wonder, might the team decide that Tracy McGrady is not the right star to pair with Yao Ming? People have theorized about that for years -- just as they theorize about rebuilding practically every team.

Yesterday, Chris McCosky of the Detroit News wrote:

The topic of Tracy McGrady came up in the Pistons' locker room before a game last week. McGrady is now injured and unhappy in Houston. Reports there say he has told friends he wants to be traded -- again.

One player, who shall remain nameless, joked that McGrady was becoming more and more like his cousin, Vince Carter. "They should call Tracy, 'half-man, half a season,'" the player cracked.

Who knows if McGrady is on the trading block at all. My thought was -- is it even possible to trade Tracy McGrady? With his salary and the makeup of the team, are there viable trades that even make sense? Some smart people played around with the trade machine and came up with a bunch of scenarios that work salary-cap wise.

* To Dallas: Tracy McGrady, Steve Francis, and Carl Landry for Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, and Maurice Ager.
* To Denver: Straight up for Allen Iverson.
* To Indiana: Tracy McGrady, Rafer Alston, Steve Francis, and Carl Landry for Jermaine O'Neal, Jamaal Tinsley, and Stephen Graham.
* To the Clippers: Tracy McGrady, Luther Head, and Carl Landry for Corey Maggette, Cuttino Mobley, and Dan Dickau.
* To the Nets: Tracy McGrady and Kirk Snyder for Richard Jefferson, Jamaal Magloire, and Antoine Wright.
* Or another Nets trade: Tracy McGrady and Steve Francis for Vince Carter and Jamaal Magloire.
* To the Hornets: Tracy McGrady and Carl Landry for Peja Stojakovic, Ryan Bowen, and Rasual Butler.
* To the Suns: Tracy McGrady and Aaron Brooks for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks.
* To the Kings: Tracy McGrady, Shane Battier, Kirk Snyder, and Aaron Brooks for Mike Bibby, Ron Artest, Kenny Thomas, and Francisco Garcia.
* To the Jazz: Tracy McGrady and Carl Landry for Andrei Kirilenko and Morris Almond.

A few thoughts:

* It's hard to trade someone like Tracy McGrady. He's one of the best players in the NBA at times (never forget). And he is paid accordingly. But man ... there are questions.
* Being durable is so important in this league. With every single one of these I find myself asking: do the [insert team name here] really want to hitch their wagon to someone who is so often injured? For that reason, some of the trades that make the most sense are for others with similar histories, like Stojakovic.
* Assuming Carl Landry likes being in Houston, all this McGrady trade talk is not good for him with his easy-to-trade minimum contract.
* The media would love a McGrady-for-Carter cousin trade.
* Teams with top point guards, like New Jersey and New Orleans, might be able to get more out of McGrady than the rest. I'm thinking a long, mobile, score-from-anywhere shooting guard would enjoy a major bump in productivity alongside a great passer.
* I would assume that if Houston moves a major piece like McGrady, they would want to solve their ongoing point guard conundrum in the process.