Mavs at Warriors: 2-4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ddh33 · 05-04-2007, 02:53 PM

And that's an ender...fittingly, I might add.

If I were a Dallas Maverick, I would be more than embarrassed. Heck, I'm just a fan, and I'm beyond embarrassed.

No reason to talk about what needs to happen. That's a whole different thread for a later time. This is about what went wrong tonight, which was nothing more than what went wrong all series.

By the way, when did all those celebrities become Warrior fans? I don't remember seeing them there last year? Just more reason to dislike California and all of their celebrities!

I know that a lot of people are going to blame Avery, and he certainly isn't beyond reproach. At the same time, in Avery's case, I just felt bad. As a player Avery didn't have much talent. He was known for his toughness and intelligence. His team showed none of those things. Oh, I didn't like a lot of things he did, but I sort of understood several of the decisions. I think he looked and felt helpless. His team couldn't execute. They couldn't hit shots. They couldn't defend. They couldn't rebound. A coach might be able to scheme, but he can't do things for the players. In my mind, this loss is much more on them.

Speaking of, Dirk is a wuss. Oh, I know we all have enjoyed watching him and cheering for him. We have even told ourselves that he can't be a wuss because we have seen him have huge games in the clutch. All good points. However, I see a soft jump shooter, a defensive liability, and a guy who played scared, tentative, and looked like a big sissy. I think the two lasting images of this series that I will forever carry with me are Dirk shooting fade away jumpers over guys a foot shorter than him and missing practically every one of them. The other image happened in the third quarter tonight when Baron Davis got in the open floor, blew past his man, attacked the rim where Dirk was coming to help, and went right over him. Dirk didn't try to block the shot. He didn't even wave at the ball. He just let the man score. He immediately looked towards the bench like Avery was supposed to somehow bail him out. I swear to you, if that was a junior high player, I would have sit him down indefinitely. It absolutely made me sick.

Josh Howard played awfully hard this series. In a way, Josh personified all of the good and bad about this team. For the most part, effort was never the problem. Basketball IQ was. Josh tried to do everything he could, but he just didn't seem equipped to lead this team. Unfortunately, no one else was either.

Jason Terry was a no show. Jet had more turnovers than assists. He proved he couldn't play like a point guard, and his size became a bigger liability against the Warriors bigger guards. Making matters worse, he couldn't make shots either.

Devin Harris was a bright spot to me. I thought Devin should have been more of a focal point of this team, and I have been saying that for a long time. I thought Devin did everything that could have been expected of him. It's not saying much, but he was the best defensive guard Dallas had all season long. Fouls were a constant issue though. He grew more and more as a point guard, and I thought that was evident tonight. He did a nice job of moving the ball. In fact, when he wasn't in the game, the offense fell apart. Someone remind me again why there were so many times that he wasn't in the game?

Desagana Diop already had a big fan in me. I'm a bigger fan now though. I thought Diop played very well. He had no help inside though.

Erick Dampier was a non factor. I think I have typed those words before in playoff time. It may be time to re-evaluate that.

Jerry Stackhouse is another guy who is all heart. Stack kept Dallas in this game with his early shooting, and he helped shoot them out of the game in the second half. He took a lot of threes, like everyone else on the team. I still admire his toughness. I wish more guys on this team had it. I tell you, if he had the legs to go with his heart, this team would be a lot better off.

Devean George was less consistent with his shot than Adrian Griffin ever was.

Greg Buckner seems like the same guy he was last time in Dallas. Remember why Dallas let him go?

Austin Croshere, I wish we had more of you. He was another guy who was a true pro, and he played with heart. He was willing to battle for his team.

Maurice Ager played hard in the blow out. I thought he made his entrance a little early, but I kind of liked some of what I saw.

In the end, the Mavs just failed brutally and miserably. They choked in a huge way, and the MVP will be the story.

alexamenos · 05-04-2007, 02:59 PM

excellent as always dd -- looking forward to november.

dude1394 · 05-04-2007, 03:28 PM

Avery stunk this series. He absolutely stunk.

From game one we were on our heels as avery tried to outsmart someone. Lost our home game (which if we'd have won all, we take this series) and never until the 4th game got anything resembling our offense.

With respect to dirk, well whatever. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. But I continue to see him getting doubled-triple teamed and everyone is standing around like he's going to beat them at it? Very little if anyplace to go, you'd think that we'd get a pass back out or a cutter, but no everyone is standing around waiting for dirk to take a contested shot or waiting for their chance at a 3-ball. So all season Avery talks about us shooting too many 3s but he can't devise anything other than that. Ridiculous.

We played against a team that played zone all series against us and AGAIN we can't handle it. From the miami series to this year to this season. Does avery not think that teams are going to play zone and test our outside shooting? Well duh, second series in a row that a zone has beat us. WAKE UP.

If it wasn't knee-jerking I'd fire him right now.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 03:29 PM

Why the hell did they get off the plane shooting threes? I thought they were on a mission.

FINtastic · 05-04-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

I think the two lasting images of this series that I will forever carry with me are Dirk shooting fade away jumpers over guys a foot shorter than him and missing practically every one of them. The other image happened in the third quarter tonight when Baron Davis got in the open floor, blew past his man, attacked the rim where Dirk was coming to help, and went right over him. Dirk didn't try to block the shot. He didn't even wave at the ball. He just let the man score. He immediately looked towards the bench like Avery was supposed to somehow bail him out.

The image I couldn't get out of my head was the one play in the third quarter where Dirk was content to pass the ball to Austin Croshere and watch him take it to the hoop. He hadn't shot in the quarter up to that point (that I can remember), and he was deferring to Austin freakin' Croshere. It was sad to see Austin Croshere have to do what our star player should have done all along. At that point, I knew our star player had pretty much given up.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

The image I couldn't get out of my head was the one play in the third quarter where Dirk was content to pass the ball to Austin Croshere and watch him take it to the hoop. He hadn't shot in the quarter up to that point (that I can remember), and he was deferring to Austin freakin' Croshere. It was sad to see Austin Croshere have to do what our star player should have done all along. At that point, I knew our star player had pretty much given up.

I remember this.

92bDad · 05-04-2007, 03:44 PM

Great assessment and excellent post!!

Terry was a no-show for the series, I was very disappointed...

Dirk crawled into a shell...give credit to the Warriors for taking him out, but I also give blame to Dirk...it was as if his 'Nice' personality crept in and he became soft against his old coach. Don Nelson exploited every ounce of weakness in Dirk and now Dirk will have to respond in the offseason or this team may be headed south and fast!!!

Finally Kudos to Mark Cuban...for the most part he kept his mouth closed in the regular season and post season. If he does call it a day and put the team up for sale, I would love to hear his side of the NBA story...

Of course as a condition of the sale, the NBA may put some restrictions on what he can say...I would imagine that the money he gets from the team will be over time and not all up front. It's smart business on the NBA...yet I am reminded of early in his ownership when he let it slip that games were rigged...he has never gone back to this and has never made another comment about this...but the closer I watch this league the more I start to question how the league is run. Where there is smoke there is fire...

Think about it...what type of ratings would the NBA have if the Mavs advanced? It's a numbers game...as it is with the upset the ratings are going to be up...the Warriors had the largest crowd...the media was all over the upset...this is a marketing jewel...outside of Dallas, nobody cares or even notices. Stern is a marekting genius and he has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes...the Warriors will get knocked out and most likely now the Suns will be the team to represent the West...they have the Media Hype and Marketability!!!

Lebron will probably be the player to carry his team to the next level and be the next Superteam/Superstar...It's sad really...let the players decide, let the competition be the entertainment...we don't need the league to dictate what's good or not.

My apologies, but I am sick of what I have observed and how the league is manipulated!!! I'm bitter today and it will take me some time to come back around...

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 03:48 PM

^You saying Richardson should have been suspended?

write2warriors · 05-04-2007, 03:50 PM

We booed the heck out of Snoop because he's a Faker fan.
Jessica Alba is a friend of Baron Davis.

WraithXx · 05-04-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Great assessment and excellent post!!

Terry was a no-show for the series, I was very disappointed...

Dirk crawled into a shell...give credit to the Warriors for taking him out, but I also give blame to Dirk...it was as if his 'Nice' personality crept in and he became soft against his old coach. Don Nelson exploited every ounce of weakness in Dirk and now Dirk will have to respond in the offseason or this team may be headed south and fast!!!

Finally Kudos to Mark Cuban...for the most part he kept his mouth closed in the regular season and post season. If he does call it a day and put the team up for sale, I would love to hear his side of the NBA story...

Of course as a condition of the sale, the NBA may put some restrictions on what he can say...I would imagine that the money he gets from the team will be over time and not all up front. It's smart business on the NBA...yet I am reminded of early in his ownership when he let it slip that games were rigged...he has never gone back to this and has never made another comment about this...but the closer I watch this league the more I start to question how the league is run. Where there is smoke there is fire...

Think about it...what type of ratings would the NBA have if the Mavs advanced? It's a numbers game...as it is with the upset the ratings are going to be up...the Warriors had the largest crowd...the media was all over the upset...this is a marketing jewel...outside of Dallas, nobody cares or even notices. Stern is a marekting genius and he has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes...the Warriors will get knocked out and most likely now the Suns will be the team to represent the West...they have the Media Hype and Marketability!!!

Lebron will probably be the player to carry his team to the next level and be the next Superteam/Superstar...It's sad really...let the players decide, let the competition be the entertainment...we don't need the league to dictate what's good or not.

My apologies, but I am sick of what I have observed and how the league is manipulated!!! I'm bitter today and it will take me some time to come back around...

could you elaborate on the bolded part please?

92bDad · 05-04-2007, 04:21 PM

Unfortunately I didn't keep any files...I'm not tech savvy...but i recall a TV or radio interview that Cuban had. He indicated a phone call with another owner in which the outcome of the game was dicussed and pre-determined.

After that, Cuban's credibility was slowly destroyed...

To this day, I believe there is something to this and Cuban is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He, like the rest of the owners are after all, running a business.

If rat's out the league he will cost he and the league more money than we care to imagine...

I wish I could remember the details of the interview...he slipped and then he backed off and rephrased or something like that...but it was said and aired...only nobody at the time took it seriously.

It was discounted as a young owner overstepping his bounds. Either Cuban has gotten with the system, or those running the league have gotten better about how they manipulate the games and keep Cuban at bay.

The league is a business with the bottom line at hand...winning is only a show.

Recently there was a study regarding officiating and race...I wonder what would happen if they did the same study on a team by team basis compared to ratings and revenue generating?

At first glance we think it would be crazy to fix the league...it would take too many people etc...but take a close look, it would be a lot easier than any of us would think!!!

As someone who has refereed some youth sports...I know that I can influence, legally, the outcome of a game by the way I call the game...I can make an aggressive team passive and a passive team aggressive to the point that I can pretty much dictate who will win a game...yet nobody can prove it.

This can be done at any level and it is rather easy to do.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 04:33 PM

San Antonio isn't exactly Hollywood, but they have three titles...

fluid.forty.one · 05-04-2007, 04:38 PM

rip 2006-2007 season

dirka just playing the devils advocate here but tim duncan is cool in a sense that he's the only player of this era (besides shaq) that is possibly the all-time best at his postition. It's good for business for the post-jordan era to have one of those.

that said.. the league isn't rigged wtf.

jthig32 · 05-04-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

If it wasn't knee-jerking I'd fire him right now.

I don't care if it's knee jerking or not, I would absolutely fire him right now.

fsadallas · 05-04-2007, 05:16 PM

Terry was awful, but Dirk was even worse.
What a way to end a 67 win season..

DevinFuture · 05-04-2007, 06:01 PM

Good recap ddh33.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsadallas

Terry was awful, but Dirk was even worse.
What a way to end a 67 win season..

Fox sports is calling this "the worst playoff loss ever in American sports."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6773088?MSNHPHMA

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinFuture

Good recap ddh33.

Fox sports is calling this "the worst playoff loss ever in American sports."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6773088?MSNHPHMA

Thanks to Dirk.

Trade him. Seriously.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Thanks to Dirk.

Trade him. Seriously.

Take him out of your sig first.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-04-2007, 06:28 PM

Oh yeah and the worst playoff loss ever was the Yanks in '04.

ocelot_ark · 05-04-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Take him out of your sig first.

I'm way too lazy for that.

Darth Ape · 05-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Unfortunately I didn't keep any files...I'm not tech savvy...but i recall a TV or radio interview that Cuban had. He indicated a phone call with another owner in which the outcome of the game was dicussed and pre-determined.

After that, Cuban's credibility was slowly destroyed...

To this day, I believe there is something to this and Cuban is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He, like the rest of the owners are after all, running a business.

If rat's out the league he will cost he and the league more money than we care to imagine...

I wish I could remember the details of the interview...he slipped and then he backed off and rephrased or something like that...but it was said and aired...only nobody at the time took it seriously.

It was discounted as a young owner overstepping his bounds. Either Cuban has gotten with the system, or those running the league have gotten better about how they manipulate the games and keep Cuban at bay.

The league is a business with the bottom line at hand...winning is only a show.

Recently there was a study regarding officiating and race...I wonder what would happen if they did the same study on a team by team basis compared to ratings and revenue generating?

At first glance we think it would be crazy to fix the league...it would take too many people etc...but take a close look, it would be a lot easier than any of us would think!!!

As someone who has refereed some youth sports...I know that I can influence, legally, the outcome of a game by the way I call the game...I can make an aggressive team passive and a passive team aggressive to the point that I can pretty much dictate who will win a game...yet nobody can prove it.

This can be done at any level and it is rather easy to do.

That's a true story. I remember it quite well. It was his second season as owner, if I recall correctly.

And remember, after a bad loss in the postseason last year, Mark Cuban was screaming at David Stern in the stands about the game being rigged.

Nemesis · 05-04-2007, 07:21 PM

It's tragic.

MavsX · 05-05-2007, 12:42 AM

another day

Allie · 05-05-2007, 04:05 AM

I highly doubt the league caused the Mavs to play like crap. That was all their doing.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-05-2007, 08:52 AM

We were fatally flawed ddh. You were the prophet.

Nemesis · 05-05-2007, 09:43 AM

That is what Alex Jones said...

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 05-05-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Great assessment and excellent post!!

Terry was a no-show for the series, I was very disappointed...

Dirk crawled into a shell...give credit to the Warriors for taking him out, but I also give blame to Dirk...it was as if his 'Nice' personality crept in and he became soft against his old coach. Don Nelson exploited every ounce of weakness in Dirk and now Dirk will have to respond in the offseason or this team may be headed south and fast!!!

Finally Kudos to Mark Cuban...for the most part he kept his mouth closed in the regular season and post season. If he does call it a day and put the team up for sale, I would love to hear his side of the NBA story...

Of course as a condition of the sale, the NBA may put some restrictions on what he can say...I would imagine that the money he gets from the team will be over time and not all up front. It's smart business on the NBA...yet I am reminded of early in his ownership when he let it slip that games were rigged...he has never gone back to this and has never made another comment about this...but the closer I watch this league the more I start to question how the league is run. Where there is smoke there is fire...

Think about it...what type of ratings would the NBA have if the Mavs advanced? It's a numbers game...as it is with the upset the ratings are going to be up...the Warriors had the largest crowd...the media was all over the upset...this is a marketing jewel...outside of Dallas, nobody cares or even notices. Stern is a marekting genius and he has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes...the Warriors will get knocked out and most likely now the Suns will be the team to represent the West...they have the Media Hype and Marketability!!!

Lebron will probably be the player to carry his team to the next level and be the next Superteam/Superstar...It's sad really...let the players decide, let the competition be the entertainment...we don't need the league to dictate what's good or not.

My apologies, but I am sick of what I have observed and how the league is manipulated!!! I'm bitter today and it will take me some time to come back around...

Please save your conspiracy theories. You would not be saying the league is rigged if the Mavs had won. I'm a big Mavs fan and we just got outplayed. You cannot rig basketball except for maybe having the refs give more calls to a certain team in judgment situations. You still have to make shots. And trust me the NBA didn't want Golden State to win, they love the circus that is Mark Cuban because Cuban = ratings. Golden State is not going to draw any sort of ratings from the east coast you can trust me on that. Their home games end at about 1 am on the east coast. There would have to be morons in charge to want Golden State to win. No one cares about Golden State outside of Oakland.

dude1394 · 05-05-2007, 10:39 AM

The nba doesn't really give a crap about who wins. I'm not exactly sure about that with Stern however, he seems pretty devious little dude.

No conspiracies, mavs got outplayed, outcoached and outhustled. Especially outcoached imo.

I think stackhouse had a quote about how I felt about it. That the mavs never seemed to get over getting their ass whupped in game 1. IMO I think that whole deal shook the teams confidence in themselves, in avery and in their "system". Especially since Avery was so eager and willing to throw out what they'd been doing all year. I don't think we ever recovered from it. Certainly we needed home court advantage in this game and the coach yuck-monkey'd it away.

MavsX · 05-05-2007, 12:05 PM

true ^