Sonics make offer to Booth - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

madape · 07-31-2001, 06:16 PM

Not official yet - but ESPN radio is reporting that the Sonics have offered Booth more than the mid level exception - making it impossible for the Mavs to match.

Rick Sund was also quoted after the Patterson signing in Portland as saying "This gives us some room, this is an asset," Sund said. "You look at teams in the league, and this allows us to trump their mid-level exception ($4.5 million)."

Uh Oh!

seelenjaeger · 07-31-2001, 06:25 PM

well, as long as booth doesnt sign that offer sheet nothing will happen ...

MFFL · 07-31-2001, 10:57 PM

CRAP! Why would Booth choose Seattle over Dallas? What an idiot! Oh well, at least we signed Manning today!
---------------------------------------------------------------

Tuesday, July 31, 2001
Mavericks' backup set to replace departed Ewing
Associated Press

SEATTLE -- The Seattle SuperSonics, looking for a starting center after the departure of Patrick Ewing, signed Dallas Mavericks backup center Calvin Booth to an offer sheet Tuesday.

The Mavericks have 15 days to match the Sonics' offer, but they are over the salary cap and would have to make a trade in order to clear enough room to keep Booth, a restricted free agent.

Terms of the Sonics' deal with Booth were not disclosed by the team. Booth's agent, Mark Termini, was not immediately available for comment.

The Mavericks would be able to match any Seattle offer up to $4.5 million, but the Sonics have more than that amount in cap room because they let Ruben Patterson leave as a free agent and sign with the Portland Trail Blazers on Monday.

The 6-foot-11, 241-pound Booth becomes the first veteran player signed by the Sonics since their 2000-2001 season ended April 18.

The Sonics have lost Emanual Davis, Jelani McCoy, Ruben Wolkowyski, David Wingate, Ewing and Patterson off their roster. Ewing was Seattle's starting center for one season and will play for Orlando next season.

"Calvin was definitely at the top of our list this summer," Sonics coach Nate McMillan said. "I feel he is one of the up-and-coming centers in the league with tremendous potential. Calvin has a great feel for the game, especially on the defensive end of the floor."

The Sonics brought in Booth and 6-10, 270-pound Marc Jackson, Golden State's backup center, for workouts.

Booth, 25, averaged 5.3 points, 4.5 rebounds, 2.02 blocked shots and 17.0 minutes in 55 regular-season games and 3.8 points, 2.8 rebounds and 13.7 minutes in 10 playoff games last season, his third in the NBA.

"Calvin has a tremendous upside and is an excellent young talent," Seattle general manager Rick Sund said. "He really fits into what we're trying to do here in Seattle."

LonestarROB · 07-31-2001, 11:18 PM

ARGH!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] . This SUCKS big time. We have officially got screwed in the Howard trade now IMO. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

MavsFanFinley · 08-01-2001, 12:01 AM

Shit! This is not good at all...

Do you think Cuban can pull off a trade with Eisley to get some more money to keep Booth? I don't see it happening, but Cuban said he'll match any offer to keep him.

HOW?

It pisses me off too cause Cuban was only offering him a 2 year deal as if we already have Duncan locked up for 2003.

Not only does this make the Howard trade look bad if we lose Booth, it means Dirk will have to play center behind Bradley or vice versa. What center is out there that realistically will come here?

Hakeem? I don't see it, but with this new development--maybe?

Marc Jackson? I would rather pay Booth the cash than Jackson.

Arghh...screw Booth for giving us this hastle. Is money and a starting job for a team that won't make the playoffs better than playing for Dallas?

#41 · 08-01-2001, 03:15 AM

This sucks, the Sonics, for real now, who still wants to play for that team? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 10:24 AM

Well we can't blame Cuban, Cuban was willing to offer him as much as he COULD under the collective bargaining agreement. However I can't blame Booth, he's going to a team where he's going to start and get paid more money than he would in Dallas, also, Seattle was a winning team last year. He may feel he's the missing piece to the puzzle. I don't think that's the case but that could have been how he saw it. Good for him and yes, now that Juwan Howard deal looks VERY stupid!!!!

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 10:25 AM

Well we can't blame Cuban, Cuban was willing to offer him as much as he COULD under the collective bargaining agreement. However I can't blame Booth, he's going to a team where he's going to start and get paid more money than he would in Dallas, also, Seattle was a winning team last year. He may feel he's the missing piece to the puzzle. I don't think that's the case but that could have been how he saw it. Good for him and yes, now that Juwan Howard deal looks VERY stupid!!!!

seelenjaeger · 08-01-2001, 11:34 AM

well, lets face it cold-blooded.
we lost a guy which could have been a key-reserve soon to come. nothing more. lets go out and find another one who WILL be a key reserve, and nothing´s happened ...

j

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 12:35 PM

i don't blame booth at all..he wants a chance to play alot of minutes... that's good for him..
but, when making the trade initially, wasn't that something the mavs should have taken into consideration???>..that booth would be a free agent that would draw attention and perhaps be unable to be resigned?

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 12:38 PM

so the trade now looks like
juwan howard for

hubert davis
courtney alexander
christian laettner
loy vaught
and
etan thomas...

personally, i wouldn't trade hubert davis and christian laettner for juwan howard, ...much less for davis, laettner, alexander, and thomas...

and if the mavs were trading for howard so that they could someday acquire duncan...well, i truthfully don't think that the mavs should be looking that far into the future for a possible guy to bring in....and i truthfully think that the mavs traded for howard so that they would have a shot at duncan sometime in the future...teams simply don't look that far down the road for a possible future acquisition...there's too many variables that you must contend with before now and then

MavsFanFinley · 08-01-2001, 12:47 PM

Don't forget Loy Vaught Murph. He gave some nice production at times.

This is just showing how cocky Cuban has become...he was so sure that Booth would turn down the Sonics offer. How he can believe all players will go for the 2-year stint is beyond me? I know it works with some players, like Manning and Griffin, but someone like Booth is going to want some more security.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 12:52 PM

i really do hope he learned something from it...but it is apparent that the mavs were a bit too cocky about their position in the market..hopefully it's not too late to make some key moves....
whether they make the key moves or not, it's still apparent that cuban and nellie need to learn a bit of a lesson from this... just because your name is Mark Cuban doesn't mean you're a God in the NBA

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 01:24 PM

I agree with Murph, and I NEVER agreed with the fact that he acquired Juwan so that he could create salary room to acquire Duncan. That doesn't make much sense to me. It's a good idea, but that doesn't make sense to take on all that salary in the meantime for a player who hasn't performed THAT great in Washington with the exception of one year, I'm just not buying it I'm sorry.

They thought Juwan was going to resurge his career and they thought he was going to take some of the pressure off of Bradley, but they found out he's not that good of a rebounder or defensive player so it doesn't take much pressure off of Bradley. From an offensive standpoint, like I said he could score, but he disrupts the flow of the offense because he has to isolate himself on one side of the court AND you have to make a play for him, he's unable to create his own points from rebounding or hustle or anything like that. You bring in a player like that, believe it or not, Bradley becomes a much better player, because while people are trying to keep that player off the boards, guess who it opens it up for. Just ask people like Ewing who played along side Oakley for so long. Just ask Kareem who played alongside Bob Mac Adoo and Kurt Rambis. Olajuwan who played alongside Otis Thorpe. Mourning who during his dominant years was playing alongside PJ Brown and Larry Johnson (before the injuries). I mean it makes a difference and ALL of these powerforwards do something Juwan NEVER has done, REBOUND WELL!!! That's why this trade NEVER made sense to me and it's looking even worse in my opinion.

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 01:41 PM

i don't know...i feel as if nellie and cuban are too proud to admit that they made a mistake...and that they're determined to prove that they can win a championship with howard at the 4 spot.. i just don't see it, unless you have a dominating center to go along with juwan at 4..but what are the odds of that happening?

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 01:49 PM

I've said it before the ONLY time Juwan looked good was when he was playing with Webber and that was because he wasn't the focal point. That's probably why he would have worked out if he went to Miami, but Mourning would have fell off on the other hand. If we can't bring in a dominating center or one that commands alot of attention like Olajuwan (who is the only center that could come close to that role) then we're up shits creek without a paddle.

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 01:55 PM

Here's something we haven't considered. The Booth deal is not done just yet. If we find someone to take Eisley we would create enough room to match Seattle's offer. However we have 10 days to do so and I don't think that's realistic but I'm not giving up hope yet. That would be good, we could trade Eisley for some scrub and cash. Cut the scrub and make room for Booth and sign Hardaway with our $1M dollar exception. Problem solved!!!

madape · 08-01-2001, 02:06 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Mavs about $5M over the cap? They would need to get about $5 BELOW in order to match, and that would require among other things renouncing Bradley. They could possibly get a trade exception by trading some salary (like Eisley's) to a team under the cap and getting back almost nothing in return but that excemtion can only be used for trades, not free agents. I don't think there is any possible way to get under the cap now. Booth is gone.

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 04:37 PM

That's what I'm saying Madape, if we were to trade Eisley for some scrub play and cash, we could renounce the rights of that player and match the Sonics offer. If my mathmatics are correct. I think so, but I'm not certain.

seelenjaeger · 08-01-2001, 04:57 PM

Guys, we´re over-reacting. We have lost BOOOOTH. Not Dirk, Fin, Nash. BOOOOTH.

The Howard moved PAID OFF - the mavs were a better team after the trade. Dont call the night before the dawn is over. What if Howard has a burst in his career just like Nash, Dirk had? Take it easy - and lets take a look what happens next. If the Mavs win 60 games next year no one will remember Booth, so just look what´s coming ...

j

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 05:00 PM

yes, the mavs were better last year after the trade..but they simply gave up too much for too little...
it's a trade that was good for the immediate future (the second half of the season)..but's it's a trade that will hurt in the long run...and no, i don't think that losing booth is something that will greatly hurt the mavs..but, i do think that we should take another look at the howard trade and see how badly washington bent the mavs over and stuck it up the mavs butt...
the mavs got screwed,..no doubt about it

it reminds me of trades made in MLB all the time...bringing in a player to help for the playoff push but giving up too much young talent in return..
see the sammy sosa, wilson alvarez for fred manrique, harold baines...

yes, baines hit .290-.300 for the rangers, but look what sosa developed in to...

MavsFanFinley · 08-01-2001, 05:22 PM

Cuban and Nelson don't plan on matching Seattle's offer--meaning they don't believe he is worth the contract.

The whole point of unloading Eisley to Detroit was to get a trade exception to give to Hardaway and something else in return--a big man. Hence, the Brendan Haywood deal that Detroit couldn't complete.

I think Cuban is probably really sore about Booth bolting--it was a hit to his pride, and proably because Howard wasn't what they thought he would be. No, no, no Murph Im not jumping on your wagon of Howard sucks. But, it's hard to ignore that the trade doesn't look to good to them now--even if they won't admit it. What did Cuban expect though after insulting Booth that way?

TheKid · 08-01-2001, 05:53 PM

Well do I think Howard could have a burst in his career like Dirk who improved EVERY year he's been in the league and like Nash who had the burst when he became a starter. Howards numbers have been declining and he's been a starter EVERY year he's played in the league, so the chances of him resurecting his career could happen but not in Dallas. He's a scorer, we don't need a scorer. NOW there is a benefit with having that weapon on your team but we WILL feel the effects of losing Booth. When Bradley gets into foul trouble and we don't have a shot blocker back there, you'll see, it's going to hurt!!!!

seelenjaeger · 08-01-2001, 07:19 PM

First of all: we won´t go into the season with that roster. there will be another center. For sure.

Second: you´re completely right. MFFL has been hurted in his pride. There´s been a guy who didnt believe in his plan to bring Dallas a championship - just because he is not DALLAS but an individual, who couldnt be blamed for taking the secured future and the competitve chance to start the NBA.

Third: there´s a thing which can really burst Juwan. he´s not the spotlight anymore. he´s a starter, and if he puts up 17 and 8 we´ll be happy. he dont have to carry that team. he dont have to win the games. it´s enough to be there and do his job. thats what this guy can do. be a nobody. if we let him. he wont do stellar performances on defense, nor hitting impossible treys in offense, but he will be there on a consistent basis night by night.

The trade. Well, what did we give up?
Laettner. Vaught. Hubert Davis. Courtney Alexander. Etan Thomas.
Think about Laettner BEFORE he came to big D.
Think about Vaught BEFORE he came to big D.
Nellie and Cuban are SUPERB in creating a hype on players. Neither of them has any value for a championship contender, and PLEASE Murph, dont argue me on that one, I think it´s pretty obvious.
Courtney and Etan. 1st rounders. Valuable Players in 2-4 years (after that trade). Etan was hurt. And far away from helping us EVEN NEXT year. And if you blame Howard for not playing any defense, what´d you call Alexanders defense and shot selection? He´s matured i Washinton due to playing time. PT he wouldnt have get here in Big D. So what? He wouldnt have been that player he is now if he´d stayed here in Big D.
Remains Hubie. Great guy, great shooter.
Maybe the kind of guy who may help a contender coming from the bench.

But you have to do DAMAGE and PAIN to your franchise in trades in order to make it better. The Howard Move was a very risky one, now that we had to give up Howard it might have been too much of a gamble. But c´mon, it was part of a Roster change NEEDED to be a contender - we would have been stuck in the lower playoff seed without a decent PF ... and that´s what Howard is. The gaps on the bench maybe filled - the chance to add a starter was unique. And worth a try ...

One of the most important things in beeing a leader behind the scenes is the ability to take on risks, to be couragous, if you have that very feeling to take a gamble which may add the missing piece - Juwan MAY be that piece - and if he isnt he may help the Mavs until Dirk is so good to take over OR we find a way to add someone else.

j
J

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 09:42 PM

the reason why the juwan trade wasn't good is because you're stuck with a guy (j.howard) that doesn't address the mavs main need... a guy that can play defense at the 4 or 5 spot.
if you don't understand that, well, i can't help you. you don't win championships in the nba with starters at the 4 and 5 spot like howard and bradley..it doesn't happen.
howard is a worse defender than laettner....
alexander could help the mavs this year
etan could possibly help in the near future
vaught is a throw in
hubert davis was a big role player on the mavs team..

i can tell you're not american... because you don't realize that the style of play the mavs have right now doesn't win championships in the nba...
teams don't win championships that are as weak as the mavs are inside with their starting pf and center.

and no, i wouldn't be satisfied if juwan had 17 points and 8 boards a game...

1 big reason
he would still be the worst defensive power forward in the western conference and maybe the nba

another small reason...he needs to grab more boards, concentrating more on rebounding than 8 boards a game....

Murphy3 · 08-01-2001, 09:45 PM

and another thing...don't tell me to not argue with you about nellie hyping players...

i've always known what type of player laettner was and is..
he's a guy that can shoot...he'll grab some boards, he'll bust his ass...he'll make the good pass, he'll make the smart plays... and he'll compensate for his bad knees and achilles defensively by always being in position.
he's also a guy that has sacrificed his numbers for the good of his team almost anywhere he's ever been.

he has almost always played out of position..and the one time he actually played his natural position, which is pf, he made the all-star team...
but guess what, he's a team player that has played center because the teams that he's played on have needed him to do so...

so don't give me that b.s.
i know enough about the game to make my own judgements about players without going on how much nellie hype's someone