Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-10-2023, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

They better be trying to use that bullshit pick to obtain a high quality starting big or defensive wing that matters next year

You do realize Jalen Duren, Mark Williams, and Walker Kessler were all drafted after 10 last draft right? All of them would be starting at center for us.

I know this draft devoid of good bigs, but you must think we have talent on our team to be picky.

I'm fine trading the pick for upgrades, but don't act like the 10th pick couldn't be played right away.

Only the coach is the one stopping that.

saclare · 04-10-2023, 02:08 PM

Lol a "bullshit" pick that will somehow help the Mavs retain Luka. Ya gotta get over the regular season, my guy. That pick will end up immediately helping the Mavs in one way or the other. Just a weird fixation on how it got here.

I still believe that it will be used via trade. However, I can absolutely see a few guys who can more than "contribute" next season and beyond. I will be able to understand the value of a guy like that on a rookie contract. I also understand the win-now mentality and agree with you it will more than likely be better served going after a wing and/or big to shore up the roster.

Agree with SMC that they can't screw this up like last offseason and better have as best of an understanding of Kyrie and his plans as they can.

Melonhead · 04-10-2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

A couple of counterpoints...

Brunson never gave the Mavs a shot at offering that much. At that point, they had already let the early extension deadline pass and FA was the play. Typically, the incumbent team get a chance to match or counteroffer a higher deal. By all accounts, this never happened.

Kyrie will likely sign something around 5 years and $250M. Again, media driven narratives that Kyrie is the issue when we have heard quite the opposite from teammates, including multiple who have flat said they bought into it and he's nothing like the way he's portrayed to the public.

He did give them a shot. Cuban flat out lied this week and said he didnt know Brunson's number, which was reported before FA began, hence the tampering lol.

So along with the lie, he added another lie if he knew the Knicks number he wouldve paid it in a heartbeat. Implying the signing was possible. Dudes story changes throughout the last 10 months.

And if Kyrie's max if 5/275, why would you come in at 5/250? You risk him being unhappy when youre right there at the max already.

SMC0007 · 04-10-2023, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Based on luka's comments regarding things has to change

I feel as though that pick has to be flipped for help now not some guy who won't contribute to title contending team next year

Luka is about to walk out the door he ain't got time for the mavs to be developing guys

He could care less about that damn pick as evidence by his comments spoken about the tank situation he wanted to play and make the playoffs

They better be trying to use that bullshit pick to obtain a high quality starting big or defensive wing that matters next year

Yea, I am sure there are guys who could probably contribute and maybe even start but it's a risk you can't justify right now.

I'm not even interested in a defensive wing. We have to have as close to a 2 way player as possible. No more Bullocks, Dfs, Holidays. They have to be able to play both sides of the court AND dribble the ball.

A big is top priority, though.

Dallas41 · 04-10-2023, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

He did give them a shot. Cuban flat out lied this week and said he didnt know Brunson's number, which was reported before FA began, hence the tampering lol.

So along with the lie, he added another lie if he knew the Knicks number he wouldve paid it in a heartbeat. Implying the signing was possible. Dudes story changes throughout the last 10 months.

And if Kyrie's max if 5/275, why would you come in at 5/250? You risk him being unhappy when youre right there at the max already.

At this point I don't know how any fan can believe or trust cuban

I just get the feeling he simply didn't want to pay JB market value

For years cuban has been preaching the idea of getting something for nothing

I think he's stuck in that mode

The days of cuban going for it all might be over.

I think he's more likely to bargain shop to try and surround Luka with pieces that he thinks might just hit one day.

As for his kyrie talk I'll wait to see if he puts his money where his mouth is.....

Melonhead · 04-10-2023, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea, I am sure there are guys who could probably contribute and maybe even start but it's a risk you can't justify right now.

I'm not even interested in a defensive wing. We have to have as close to a 2 way player as possible. No more Bullocks, Dfs, Holidays. They have to be able to play both sides of the court AND dribble the ball.

A big is top priority, though.

It feels like an eternity that Cuban goes for one dimensional players because he doesnt ever want to pay market value for big difference makers around the star. 2 way players dont grow on trees for bargains, unless youre willing to draft them. I just dont know if Cuban will spend to get whats needed around Luka.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 07:55 AM

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...han-you-think/

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...han-you-think/

He fits an obvious need, but man, the guy is a head case. We already have a head case coach (who might jerk him around like he did Wood), and a head case owner. That could back fire big time.

tap2390 · 04-11-2023, 09:02 AM

Out on Gobert.

1) He?s overpaid and overrated. Can?t guard the perimeter that well which is crucial with all the switching in the NBA.

2) He?s a dick.

3) A third large contract hampers us.

Melonhead · 04-11-2023, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...han-you-think/

He averaged a career-low 2.1 blocks per 100 possessions this season. According to FiveThirtyEight's RAPTOR metric, he is having his worst defensive season since 2016, and opposing players are shooting 56.6% against Gobert within six feet of the basket. That is the worst figure of his career by far.

Damn he did have a rough season. Also didnt know he was 31.

Melonhead · 04-11-2023, 09:36 AM

If Mavs have a read on Kyrie (lol) and think he's staying, then Id draft a player.

If they have a feeling he's not staying, then you might have to package that pick for someone. Toronto, Portland have guys out there I'd be interested in .

saclare · 04-11-2023, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

He did give them a shot. Cuban flat out lied this week and said he didnt know Brunson's number, which was reported before FA began, hence the tampering lol.

So along with the lie, he added another lie if he knew the Knicks number he wouldve paid it in a heartbeat. Implying the signing was possible. Dudes story changes throughout the last 10 months.

And if Kyrie's max if 5/275, why would you come in at 5/250? You risk him being unhappy when youre right there at the max already.

Everyone knew the damn number, that's not at all what I'm saying. Mavs let him get to FA, right or wrong. Then Brunson never gave the Mavs the opportunity to match or present an offer. He was Knicks the whole time. Believe who you want man, I'm over this shit.

You may be right on Kyrie. I simply don't care what it takes, re-sign him or get assets back in a sign and trade. Can't lose another asset for nothing.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

At this point I don't know how any fan can believe or trust cuban

I just get the feeling he simply didn't want to pay JB market value

For years cuban has been preaching the idea of getting something for nothing

I think he's stuck in that mode

The days of cuban going for it all might be over.

I think he's more likely to bargain shop to try and surround Luka with pieces that he thinks might just hit one day.

As for his kyrie talk I'll wait to see if he puts his money where his mouth is.....

I can't understand for the life of me why y'all take Daddy Brunson's word and run with it as the end all truth. Oh, but Tim MacMahon said the same...oof.

Don't mistake me for defending the FO, either. This is squarely on their shoulders and their problem to fix. Dwelling on he said she said shit with Brunson is beyond tiring at this point. They fucked it up, no on is defending them on it. But to state, as truth, that Brunson would have signed here if given the opportunity is straight garbage. He never gave them the chance. I don't care for what reason or the other, Mavs never got the meeting after Knicks to counter. Pretty sure everyone has stated that now.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It feels like an eternity that Cuban goes for one dimensional players because he doesnt ever want to pay market value for big difference makers around the star. 2 way players dont grow on trees for bargains, unless youre willing to draft them. I just dont know if Cuban will spend to get whats needed around Luka.

Cuban and the FO, both previous and now, have yet to properly gauge the market value of players in both free agency and trades. That's more than fair.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 09:46 AM

Wayyyyyy out on Gobert. That might go down as the worst trade in NBA history unless you count Traylor for Nowitzki.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

If Mavs have a read on Kyrie (lol) and think he's staying, then Id draft a player.

If they have a feeling he's not staying, then you might have to package that pick for someone. Toronto, Portland have guys out there I'd be interested in .

Remember they could do a S&T and get a package back for Kyrie. Almost a certainty with how much he'll command.

tap2390 · 04-11-2023, 11:45 AM

My heart prays Kyrie stays, my head says there's a sleeper destination for Kyrie....

If Suns renounce Paul and trade Ayton into cap space this offseason they have enough to sign Kyrie outright.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

My heart prays Kyrie stays, my head says there's a sleeper destination for Kyrie....

If Suns renounce Paul and trade Ayton into cap space this offseason they have enough to sign Kyrie outright.

Sign and trade Ayton to Mavs? I think that would be the path for the Suns.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 11:53 AM

Iztok with a good one: https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/202...ith-the-times/

Love the highlight of Luka and his defense. I think there's so much more there given his size and bball IQ, he could be more than average on defense. Less complaining with the refs and getting back. Re-signing Kyrie and having him from the jump to lower the need for high usage on the offensive end should lend plenty of opportunities for Doncic to insert himself on defense.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Sign and trade Ayton to Mavs? I think that would be the path for the Suns.

Sign and trade whom? Ayton is on a 4/132mill contract that goes through 2025-2026

Kyrie? Suns are probably looking to replace CP, but not sure Durant still wants to play with Kyrie

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 12:59 PM

What's funny is Ayton is really isn't much better than Wood. It's definitely not going to change much on the defensive front. And you lose the 3 point shooting.

But we need a center so badly that I'm open to a lot of possibilities. Anything that ensures Powell doesn't ever start again is something I'm for.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 01:28 PM

I think the comparison between Wood and Ayton is a decent one. Their stats certainly look similar from a distance.

Rebounding - Ayton is better but only by about 4-5% on contested rebounds, etc. Wood was also asked to be five-out a lot which might have hurt Wood's numbers.

Defense - this one is clear and decisive. Ayton plays within a fairly tight team defense. He is a top-15 defensive anchor. Wood is a good player but he's just never been coached to be a defensive anchor. I understand why-- he rotates between PF and C and he's been on so many teams he's never developed a team defense. The biggest problem other than rebounding was help defense and Wood was statistically one of the worst.

3pt shooting - if Ayton would get the same role here, he is a much inferior 3pt shooter (30% vs. 37%)

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

Everyone knew the damn number, that's not at all what I'm saying. Mavs let him get to FA, right or wrong. Then Brunson never gave the Mavs the opportunity to match or present an offer. He was Knicks the whole time. Believe who you want man, I'm over this shit.

You may be right on Kyrie. I simply don't care what it takes, re-sign him or get assets back in a sign and trade. Can't lose another asset for nothing.

Agreed on JB. And Im Over it as well. If I had my way, the only time he gets brought up is when it's on a list of every other fuck up since Nash.

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 01:44 PM

I'm 100% out on Gobert if we have the same coach. 75% out with any coach.

Out on Ayton too. If we can't find a better deal for center we have a problem. 30m+ for a slight upgrade from Wood? M'out on it.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Sign and trade whom? Ayton is on a 4/132mill contract that goes through 2025-2026

Kyrie? Suns are probably looking to replace CP, but not sure Durant still wants to play with Kyrie

Ayton would be the target. Not sure the Suns want to do it, but the catalyst would be Durant wanting Kyrie again. Don't know what happened with Brooklyn, but it seemed most of the angst was with ownership and coaching, not between players. If so, mostly towards Ben Simmons and how all that went down.

But yea, Durant would be the driver. I'm only thinking about teams that could make the new salary for Kyrie work. I'd doubt we are looking to take on a bunch of turd contracts to make it happen.

saclare · 04-11-2023, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Agreed on JB. And Im Over it as well. If I had my way, the only time he gets brought up is when it's on a list of every other fuck up since Nash.

Oh, I can understand that for as long as Cuban is the owner. Just hoping it doesn't grow...

Melonhead · 04-11-2023, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

I can't understand for the life of me why y'all take Daddy Brunson's word and run with it as the end all truth. Oh, but Tim MacMahon said the same...oof.

Don't mistake me for defending the FO, either. This is squarely on their shoulders and their problem to fix. Dwelling on he said she said shit with Brunson is beyond tiring at this point. They fucked it up, no on is defending them on it. But to state, as truth, that Brunson would have signed here if given the opportunity is straight garbage. He never gave them the chance. I don't care for what reason or the other, Mavs never got the meeting after Knicks to counter. Pretty sure everyone has stated that now.

Theres no reason to meet if youre not going to match the knicks number. mavs line was fvv money, that was reported. the knicks number was also reported. Its very easy to relay a message that youre willing to pay market value prior to a meeting.

Once it was clear the mavs werent matching, theres no reason to meet. Cuban has changed his story multiple times, which is why I dont believe him.

sig · 04-11-2023, 04:43 PM

Well it seems Atlants is going to be making a few moves and might even entertain moving Trae. They are already paying him, collins, Capela, Hunter starting next season while Murray, Bey, Okungwu, will up for new deals soon. They proabbly want o move out sme of that longterm salary for picks.

Even if KI stays, i'm chasing Okungwu and one of their forwards. Prefer Hunter over Collins and would part with this years draft pick and the 27 pick for Hunter and Okongwu. Mavs have role players with salary to match. Atlanta has more forwards waiting in wing like Johnson and Griffin so they are really deep in frontcourt.

If Kyrie wants to go to suns, how about ayton to Atlanta and Trae to Dallas. I'm not really a Trae fan and would much prefer KI but if he doesn't be here then that changes things. Get Okungwu in the deal. I really like that player.

I also really like ayton and if Mavs recoup some picks would not mind him a deal for KI
especially if Hardy were a bit more established as a big time scorer rather than just being a promising prospect who looks capable of becoming 25 ppg player. Mavs got a steal with Hardy who coming out of HS was ranked in some rankings higher than Scoot Henderson. Sill prefer KI over any of Trae or Ayton.

Dallas41 · 04-11-2023, 05:58 PM

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

So Nico's direct criticism was that Wood was an efficient scorer but there is more to the NBA than that.

Uhh, actually being an efficient scorer exactly what you should be in today's league.

All Nico had to do was say that we needed more defense from the position. But our FO constantly says and does stupid things.

Meanwhile, Bullock takes half the season off and not a peep.

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 07:27 PM

Nico pissing in the wind with the Wood criticism. You get the damn guy and don't even start him until you had to and he actually produced for the most part.

Nico is a yes man, imo, until proven otherwise. Kidd is a yes man. When Cuban is the leader, that's a bad situation.

BPo001 · 04-11-2023, 08:35 PM

Nico is in over his head. Like others have said why trade for Wood if you didn?t like his style of play? I expect Kidd to get dumped mid season as we fight for a .500 record halfway through the season.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Seems like kidd wasn't the only guy with an issue regarding Wood

Nico seemed to be onboard doing the exit interview

Nico didn't sound like he was a fine of Wood's style of play

Which begs the question if they had doubts about his overall game Why the hell did they waist a 1st round pick obtaining him.

Dude had all the same red flags before the trade and you still pulled the trigger

I think we got him because he was worth the risk, red flags and all. It's not like we gave up much

Pick? Wendell Moore who is likely out of the league after his contract. He's getting DNPs and hasn't been improving.

Players? Boban is the only one still in the league, right? Even that is because he's a good person and not an effective player.

Essentially gave up nothing for him.

SMC0007 · 04-11-2023, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think we got him because he was worth the risk, red flags and all. It's not like we gave up much

Pick? Wendell Moore who is likely out of the league after his contract. He's getting DNPs and hasn't been improving.

Players? Boban is the only one still in the league, right? Even that is because he's a good person and not an effective player.

Essentially gave up nothing for him.

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

FreshJive · 04-11-2023, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

At least Nico said DFS didn't help our defense, so there is that.

He didn?t say that. Not even close.

Dallas41 · 04-11-2023, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Nico is in over his head. Like others have said why trade for Wood if you didn?t like his style of play? I expect Kidd to get dumped mid season as we fight for a .500 record halfway through the season.

That's what I was trying to say

The mavs seem to favor good locker room types of guys.

There were whispers about Wood not being a good teammate prior to the trade. The mavs had inside knowledge of him via Stephen Silas and I'm sure between nico and Cuban that conversation had to be brought up about Wood.

Based on what transpired and how things turned out this year I have to believe nico and Cuban were both hesitant but decided to pull the trigger anyway while kidd probably had 0 interest from the start.

Seems like not everyone is on the same page

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

That's one way to look at it.

He was a wasted asset in hand. Move him for...something, perhaps. How long did it take to realize they weren't going to use him because of said red flags? They didn't start him until they had to from injuries.
Lose JB for nothing, add C Wood, lose him for nothing.

I am 100% not defending getting a piece and then letting it slip away

Even thought we didn't give up much in the scheme of things, we continue to absolutely suck at developing assets or at least getting something for our assets.

DevinHarriswillstart · 04-11-2023, 09:24 PM

This message is hidden because FreshJive is on your ignore list. Just in case anyone wonders why I don't reply.

Anyhoo, I bet Cuban had some delusion they could turn Wood into a defensive player. It's not the first time they tried to force players to do things they weren't good at.

But even so, to call out Wood while your starting center is Powell and McGee not playing is just bizarre. Like, Wood must have done something to piss off Cuban/Kidd early on.

FreshJive · 04-11-2023, 09:49 PM

I know dhws has me blocked. I was worried that Nico did say something that stupid, and went to watch it for myself. I responded just in case someone else wanted to check it out for themselves.

EricaLubarsky · 04-11-2023, 11:08 PM

Tomorrow we?re all Bulls fans, right?

If they beat Raptors and then Hawks, we go from like an 80% chance of keeping the pick to near 100%

And Nurse is way more likely to become available