Mavs register interest in Kings' Martin - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavsfan4lyfe201 · 01-22-2010, 11:55 PM

yeah we def dont wana take on udrih's contract. hes beat.

nocioni could be a good bench player, i wouldnt want him if were taking back martin

i love his game but hes injury prone, so i wouldnt want nocioni coming back to us IMO.

hence why iggy is our best bet before the deadline...

grndmstr_c · 01-23-2010, 01:15 AM

Iguodala remains my preference as well, but if a deal comes up for either him or Martin that doesn't destabilize the frontcourt the Mavs should probably take it.

Udrih is overpaid, but taking on a contract like his might well prove to be the price the Mavs have to pay to meet what is looking increasingly like a dire need to upgrade.

bernardos70 · 01-23-2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

What is the point being made here? Are you trying to push the notion that Caron can guard quick shooting guards?

No, that I thought he was smaller/quicker. I stand corrected in him being strictly a 3.

But now that you mention...... Marion at the 2? How do you feel about having a line-up with one ball-handler? lol

mac222b · 01-23-2010, 07:41 AM

Udrih wouldn't be all that bad. we could use a back-up point. Kidd's playing a ton of minutes. Udrih can shoot the 3.

jthig32 · 01-23-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Iguodala remains my preference as well, but if a deal comes up for either him or Martin that doesn't destabilize the frontcourt the Mavs should probably take it.

Udrih is overpaid, but taking on a contract like his might well prove to be the price the Mavs have to pay to meet what is looking increasingly like a dire need to upgrade.

Interesting. Is it just because Iguodala is the better overall player?

I remain unconvinced that he provides enough of an offensive upgrade to make any kind of real difference to this team the way it's currently constructed.

Last night was a perfect example of how desperately this team needs a real second scorer that is not dependent on Dirk to draw attention or Kidd to set him up for easy buckets. And I just don't think Iguodala is that guy.

LSMF · 01-23-2010, 10:24 AM

A Lot of folks here really seem to be under the impression that Kevin Martin is a horrible defender, and ill tell you guys that he's not. He's been one of my favorite non-mavs for a while so I have seen him play quite a bit. The guy has length and has quickness on the defensive end. Trust me folks, Martin can play defense. Honestly, the only reason why he isnt a great defender is his skinny frame. Most SG's are around 200+ pounds, but Martin weighs about 188 pounds. His limitation is his strength. He's just not as strong as most other SG's, but he does try to play defense. Which is all you really need, defense comes down to effort and scheming. Martin has the effort, and Carlislie has the right defensive schemes.

Also I have said in my older posts how much I respect K-mart because he actually takes it to the rack. Dude is 6'7 188 pounds and takes it to the rim over much bigger and stronger player, and he can finish. The guy will play his butt off to win. You cant say these same things about Josh Howard. Josh Howard won't take it to the rack anymore, he'd rather shoot a runner or jumper these days. And can we really say that Josh will do anything to get a win? Absolutely not. Maybe in 2005 and 06 he did but now he seems like he's content with himself.

The main reason why I want Martin here is because the amount of pressure he takes off Dirk. He's a 20+ point scorer, who can shoot, can handle a bit, can drive and can make big shots. Folks are saying "But Martin's not a winner", bring Martin to Dallas and I bet you he'd become a winner. You're putting a humble and hardworking player, that has played on several bad teams for quite some time on a team that has a chance to win a championship. You think he's not gunna play his heart out? You don't think his FG% will increase with Kidd and Dirk here? I could keep on going on and on with this, but ill stop here. If Cubes can get a fair trade he should get rid of J-Ho and Get Martin here as soon as possible. Then I'd really like to see a defense try to key in on Dirk, Martin would light such a defense up!

xrobx · 01-23-2010, 11:34 AM

and by the way

udrih >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JJ

would be a solid backup.

badfish22 · 01-23-2010, 01:08 PM

If we acquire Iggy, do you think we could play a Terry/Iggy backcourt when Kidd is resting with Iggy controlling the ball. He seems like he is a great passer
backup PG is another weakness on this team

grndmstr_c · 01-23-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Interesting. Is it just because Iguodala is the better overall player?

I remain unconvinced that he provides enough of an offensive upgrade to make any kind of real difference to this team the way it's currently constructed.

Last night was a perfect example of how desperately this team needs a real second scorer that is not dependent on Dirk to draw attention or Kidd to set him up for easy buckets. And I just don't think Iguodala is that guy.

The thing with Iggy is that while he's clearly not in Martin's class as a scorer, and I don't believe that he's a guy you can look to to carry the scoring load on a consistent basis, history suggests he'd be capable of giving the team at least something in the range of 18 ppg on 55% true shooting, even if he didn't see an uptick in his scoring efficiency playing with Kidd and Dirk.

That, by itself, would help given how poorly (and little) Josh has been playing. But Iguodala (unlike JHo and Martin) is an outstanding passer at the SG/SF spots, and because of that I think he'd help the Mavs get more out of the weapons that they do have.

And as much as I do favor balance, Iguodala is also in a class by himself (among those floated in rumors, at least) on the defensive end. The Mavs' defense has been less suspect than their offense in general, but they still have room to improve in that area and he would help there.

All that said, I think I could still be talked into Martin being the guy the Mavs should focus on, because he is an incredibly gifted scorer, if it weren't for the injury history. It's just so important to be able to count on your top guys being available. Josh's inability to stay healthy (or perhaps his unwillingness to tough it out) has just killed his usefulness to this team, and I'd hate to see that happen with the guy the Mavs get to replace him.

jthig32 · 01-23-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The thing with Iggy is that while he's clearly not in Martin's class as a scorer, and I don't believe that he's a guy you can look to to carry the scoring load on a consistent basis, history suggests he'd be capable of giving the team at least something in the range of 18 ppg on 55% true shooting, even if he didn't see an uptick in his scoring efficiency playing with Kidd and Dirk.

That, by itself, would help given how poorly (and little) Josh has been playing. But Iguodala (unlike JHo and Martin) is an outstanding passer at the SG/SF spots, and because of that I think he'd help the Mavs get more out of the weapons that they do have.

And as much as I do favor balance, Iguodala is also in a class by himself (among those floated in rumors, at least) on the defensive end. The Mavs' defense has been less suspect than their offense in general, but they still have room to improve in that area and he would help there.

All that said, I think I could still be talked into Martin being the guy the Mavs should focus on, because he is an incredibly gifted scorer, if it weren't for the injury history. It's just so important to be able to count on your top guys being available. Josh's inability to stay healthy (or perhaps his unwillingness to tough it out) has just killed his usefulness to this team, and I'd hate to see that happen with the guy the Mavs get to replace him.

Good stuff. The injuries are absolutely a concern. And Iggy is absolutely a very gifted passer. I just question how much that helps with the way the Mavs run their offense. (Although I suppose I should give Carlisle enough credit to expect him to be able to adjust to the talents of a new swing man).

The prospect of pairing two defenders that elite on the wings is certainly interesting. And make no mistake, I would absolutely be excited about obtaining Iguodala. But the prospect of pairing two of the most efficient scorers in the NBA together makes me all tingly.

badfish22 · 01-23-2010, 03:32 PM

http://espn.go.com/dallas/radio/archive?id=4503349

Rick says they don't expect to trade Josh or making any changes.

Nowitzki4President · 01-23-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

http://espn.go.com/dallas/radio/archive?id=4503349

Rick says they don't expect to trade Josh or making any changes.

I listened earlier today....

Rick's a liar.

sefant77 · 01-23-2010, 04:33 PM

I hope he is liar and just try to keep a low profile.

Otherwise it would be a really sad day.

badfish22 · 01-23-2010, 04:39 PM

Hes just saying it because he can't say anything else. Its still hard to listen to tough.

dalger · 01-23-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Good stuff. The injuries are absolutely a concern. And Iggy is absolutely a very gifted passer. I just question how much that helps with the way the Mavs run their offense. (Although I suppose I should give Carlisle enough credit to expect him to be able to adjust to the talents of a new swing man).

The prospect of pairing two defenders that elite on the wings is certainly interesting. And make no mistake, I would absolutely be excited about obtaining Iguodala. But the prospect of pairing two of the most efficient scorers in the NBA together makes me all tingly.

Both players would certainly help us and I'm not sure whose skills I'd want more on our team. The thing that makes me really uncomfortable as far as Martin is concerned is the amount of injuries he's already had. This is going to be his second consecutive year with more than 30 (!) DNP's due to injuries. Three seasons ago, he missed 21 games. Despite being a fairly young player, he hasn't been able to stay healthy for years now. Not to mention that he's never had to play well over 100 games a season as the result of an extended playoff run. How will his body react to that kind of pressure? Winning an NBA title these days is pretty much dependent on the respective team's health. Missing the second-best player or scorer could be almost impossible to overcome. The Celtics at full speed are a great team and definitely a contender, but not if Paul Pierce or Ray Allen were to miss a playoff series with an injury.

Martin's potential is great, but potential only helps when it's available. That's why I'd prefer Iguodala. He might not be as good a scorer as Martin, but he's still good and can also help offensively without actually scoring due to his great passing. His rebounding is very good and he can play some serious defense. Kidd, Iggy, Marion and Damp on the court at the same time could turn every opponent's offensive work into a nightmare. And with Iguodala instead of Josh, we'd be a better offensive team anyway.

I like both players, but Iggy's durability and Martin's injury issues are the difference maker for me. I'd also like the potential addition of Dalembert much more than someone like Nocioni.

peppersquad · 01-23-2010, 05:41 PM

All 3 names, KMart, Iggy, Butler all make the Mavs a much better team. Donnie needs to see which of the 3 will costs the least and get him.

grndmstr_c · 01-23-2010, 08:52 PM

Eh, if I were the Mavs I would feel like it'd be worth it to pay a little more to get Martin or Iggy relative to Caron.

Ignoring details like a 2nd rounder and/or some cash changing hands, I can't really see many options with the Wizards that appeal to me outside of Josh for Caron straight up (assuming Haywood isn't available).

With regard to Martin, I'm assuming that Sac won't deal unless they unload a troublesome contract and get back at least one inexpensive contributor to boot. Given that that's the case, the Josh/Carroll/JJB for Martin/Udrih swap I mentioned earlier would be my first choice for a deal with Sac because I like the resulting balance on the Mavs' roster (including having a bigger, less ball-dominating PG coming off the bench with JET). If it's Nocioni that Sac really wants to get rid of that complicates things somewhat. In that case Dallas can't afford to include JJB unless they've got a line on another playoff-ready pg with their 2.9 million dollar TE. Without cheap talent to tip them, though, Sac is less likely to accept Carroll's inclusion, at which point Gooden is the obvious filler, but that makes the acquisition almost prohibitively expensive and carves a huge (at least month-long) hole out of the Mavs frontcourt rotation. I haven't mentioned Booby, and I've no doubt Sac would be interested in him. I'll defer to the coaching staff on how he's progressing and whether he should be available at all, but I will say that if he's the piece that gets Sac moving I'd draw the line at taking back Martin, and refuse to accept either Udrih or Nocioni.

With Philly, I keep coming back to Josh/Carroll for Iguodala/Kapono as the trade to angle for. If Josh can even show a few signs of life between now and the trade deadline the savings Philly would get from that deal over the next couple years might be enough to motivative them to deal, and Kapono could at least be useful as a situational shooter who doesn't play the same position as either Dirk or JET.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 01-23-2010, 09:02 PM

Maybe instead of the trade rumors motivating Josh, it'll make him start tanking even more so that no teams want him and he gets to stay a Mav.

chumdawg · 01-23-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Eh, if I were the Mavs I would feel like it'd be worth it to pay a little more to get Martin or Iggy relative to Caron.

Ignoring details like a 2nd rounder and/or some cash changing hands, I can't really see many options with the Wizards that appeal to me outside of Josh for Caron straight up (assuming Haywood isn't available).

With regard to Martin, I'm assuming that Sac won't deal unless they unload a troublesome contract and get back at least one inexpensive contributor to boot. Given that that's the case, the Josh/Carroll/JJB for Martin/Udrih swap I mentioned earlier would be my first choice for a deal with Sac because I like the resulting balance on the Mavs' roster (including having a bigger, less ball-dominating PG coming off the bench with JET). If it's Nocioni that Sac really wants to get rid of that complicates things somewhat. In that case Dallas can't afford to include JJB unless they've got a line on another playoff-ready pg with their 2.9 million dollar TE. Without cheap talent to tip them, though, Sac is less likely to accept Carroll's inclusion, at which point Gooden is the obvious filler, but that makes the acquisition almost prohibitively expensive and carves a huge (at least month-long) hole out of the Mavs frontcourt rotation. I haven't mentioned Booby, and I've no doubt Sac would be interested in him. I'll defer to the coaching staff on how he's progressing and whether he should be available at all, but I will say that if he's the piece that gets Sac moving I'd draw the line at taking back Martin, and refuse to accept either Udrih or Nocioni.

With Philly, I keep coming back to Josh/Carroll for Iguodala/Kapono as the trade to angle for. If Josh can even show a few signs of life between now and the trade deadline the savings Philly would get from that deal over the next couple years might be enough to motivative them to deal, and Kapono could at least be useful as a situational shooter who doesn't play the same position as either Dirk or JET.

If Philly would do Josh/Carroll for Iggy/Kapono, it's worth wondering if Iggy would be more attractive to the Kings than Josh would. Could be a three-way in the making.

badfish22 · 01-23-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If Philly would do Josh/Carroll for Iggy/Kapono, it's worth wondering if Iggy would be more attractive to the Kings than Josh would. Could be a three-way in the making.

yeaah but I would much rather have Iggy than Martin......

bobatundi · 01-24-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Maybe instead of the trade rumors motivating Josh, it'll make him start tanking even more so that no teams want him and he gets to stay a Mav.

yeah, he's not exactly playing like a guy in a contract year.

mavsfan4lyfe201 · 01-24-2010, 11:27 AM

the only way howard stays here beyond this year is for the mid level.

its lookin more likely that we land martin due to the kings not havin won a game since he got back.

i still prefer iggy slightly but at least were gonna land 2 it looks like..and thats somethin this team has needed for years

mavs777 · 01-24-2010, 01:23 PM

It would be nice to have another guy on this team with good court vision and he can play point in a pinch, he is also a much better rebounder and defender than martin iggy > martin

mac222b · 01-24-2010, 04:42 PM

i'm torn but leaning toward Martin. i think...

peppersquad · 01-24-2010, 05:10 PM

I don't see how Philly and the Mavs are a good trade partner, they want to dump major salary for Iggy, and the Mavs don't have all that much to give up really. I don't think Damp will be involved in a major trade during the season.

grndmstr_c · 01-24-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peppersquad

I don't see how Philly and the Mavs are a good trade partner, they want to dump major salary for Iggy, and the Mavs don't have all that much to give up really. I don't think Damp will be involved in a major trade during the season.

The Sixers want to dump salary, and if you believe the reports from the national media they've now realized that they've got almost zero chance of unloading Dalembert or Brand. That being the case, the Mavs' likely unwillingness to swap out Damp for one of those giant contracts shouldn't, by itself, be prohibitive of the two sides agreeing to a trade centered around Iggy and Josh. It's really going to come down to how much of a premium Philly puts on cash savings versus draft picks and cheap young'ns. If their focus is on cutting payroll Dallas is pretty close to an ideal trade partner for them.

mac222b · 01-25-2010, 12:23 AM

Gooden has been quite valuable, especially w/Damp having a few issues. would be a tough go to be w/out him for 30 days, that's assuming we'd even get him back. wonder how that plays into things. i guess we got by w/out him last season w/ Bass and Dirk. that's just less than ideal. we'd be looking at Damp, Voskuhl, Dirk or something of that ilk. tough to find someone w/ the trade exception at 2.9million

bobatundi · 01-25-2010, 11:39 AM

Howard/Barea
for
Martin/Udrih

Math works. Saves the Kings a few million this year, several more over the next couple years. Mavs, I would argue, upgrade both the SG and backup PG positions.

Then again, with what I saw out of Roddy yesterday, I'm not terribly worried about backup PG, and Nocioni's contract is a lot more palatable than Udrih's, as it actually decreases each year & the last year is a team option.

Martin is a guy that would probably get the max if he were a free agent this offseason, or close to it; Martin + Nocioni or Udrih basically costs a Max slot. So the Mavs should do this deal. Heck, given Sacto has some financial troubles, maybe we could even milk a draft pick out of them if we did it.

bobatundi · 01-25-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Gooden has been quite valuable, especially w/Damp having a few issues. would be a tough go to be w/out him for 30 days, that's assuming we'd even get him back. wonder how that plays into things. i guess we got by w/out him last season w/ Bass and Dirk. that's just less than ideal. we'd be looking at Damp, Voskuhl, Dirk or something of that ilk. tough to find someone w/ the trade exception at 2.9million

I agree, Gooden has looked pretty good, especially when he gets extended minutes/starts. I wonder how much consideration the Mavs are giving to bringing him back next season, and if that factors into the decision on the whole trade/waive/reacquire thing. If they were to do that, they could only offer him the minimum next year, unless they're willing to spend the MLE. However, if Gooden finishes the year with the Mavs, they'll be able to offer him $5.4MM (120% of his current salary) next season, which is about what the MLE will probably be--but not costing the Mavs their MLE.

Especially if you think the Mavs are going to trade Damp, then try to re-acquire him, they're gonna need that MLE.

Kidd Karma · 01-25-2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

I agree, Gooden has looked pretty good, especially when he gets extended minutes/starts. I wonder how much consideration the Mavs are giving to bringing him back next season, and if that factors into the decision on the whole trade/waive/reacquire thing. If they were to do that, they could only offer him the minimum next year, unless they're willing to spend the MLE. However, if Gooden finishes the year with the Mavs, they'll be able to offer him $5.4MM (120% of his current salary) next season, which is about what the MLE will probably be--but not costing the Mavs their MLE.

Especially if you think the Mavs are going to trade Damp, then try to re-acquire him, they're gonna need that MLE.

If Gooden wants one year, then the Mavs will be interested. I can't see Cuban going multi year on this guy, unless the 2nd year is unguaranteed.

sefant77 · 01-25-2010, 01:47 PM

And i take Iggy/Dalembert any day over Martin/Udrih or Martin/Noci. And i take Martin/Noci over Martin/Udrih.

And i think you dont need necessarly the MLE to resign Damp. He will be 35, did a hell of the money and has a change to win a ring in Dallas. 2 years vet or BAE should work too.

Nowitzki4President · 01-25-2010, 03:27 PM

The nba rumor central section on espn.com has an article on kevin martin. Anyone got insider?

badfish22 · 01-25-2010, 03:33 PM

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2483

Quote:

Is NBA super-agent Dan Fegan at it again in attempting to connect the Mavs with some talent?
Last summer our research told you that Fegan, already the agent for several Mavs (Erick Dampier, Jason Terry and Matt Carroll) was also the representative for the vast majority of new additions to the team. In the order of acquisition, the Mavs added the following players that he represents: draftee Nick Calathes, Quinton Ross, Shawn Marion, Kris Humphries and Drew Gooden.
A few weeks ago, the Mavs traded away one of those Fegan clients (Humphries). But guess who they got in exchange? That's right, another one of his guys, Eduardo Najera.
Currently half of the Mavs' 14-man roster is represented by Fegan.
Why do we bring this up? Because we ran across an interesting nugget today.

As most of us agree, the Mavs really need another dynamic scorer besides Dirk Nowitzki. And they've had a gaping hole at shooting guard for several years. So guess which offensive stud -- one who plays shooting guard, in fact - recently became a Fegan client?

The answer: the Sacramento Kings' Kevin Martin.

Yep, that's the same Kevin Martin who was mentioned in a Marc Stein article recently as a Mavs' trade target. He became a Dan Fegan client recently.

The Mavs have their eyes on Martin. The Mavs have a relationship with Fegan. The Mavs have a pipeline to Fegan clients.

Now, we hasten to point out that there are so many moving parts to actually pulling off a major trade. Martin may not be the top target and in the end, no trade targets may prove get-able. So Fegan's presence doesn't represent some sort of magic wand. But in the context of the Mavs' recent moves, it becomes one of those things that makes you go, "Hmmmmm."

interesting...

Dirkenstien · 01-25-2010, 03:48 PM

Well let's hope it means something by the trade deadline. My preference is Iggy and I think Philly is probably an easier team to trade with, but I would be thrilled to get Martin as well. I don't think Dirk has ever had a solid no. 2 on offense, I'm interested to see how much it could help him.

bobatundi · 01-25-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

The nba rumor central section on espn.com has an article on kevin martin. Anyone got insider?

It's old news.

The Dallas Mavericks are watching the Kevin Martin-Tyreke Evans backcourt situation with the Sacramento Kings and are willing to trade Josh Howard for Martin.

Marc Stein, writing for ESPNDallas.com writes: "Sources close to the situation told ESPN.com that Dallas -- reluctant until recently to make Josh Howard available in trade discussions -- is prepared to part with the struggling former All-Star swingman in a deal for Martin. The Kings, though, have been telling teams that they are not ready to field offers for Martin, determined to give his fledging backcourt partnership with hot-shot rookie Tyreke Evans an extended period of evaluation."

Stein also reports the Mavs could join the bidding for Philadelphia's Andre Iguodala and Washington's Caron Butler.

Previously, there's been rumblings of a Jose Calderon for Martin swap, but that has been widely panned.

bobatundi · 01-25-2010, 05:01 PM

oh, wait, there's a newer one. for some reason, it lets me read some but not all. but hey, i don't pay, so whatever.

ChaosCloud · 01-25-2010, 08:10 PM

I don't want a guy like Martin, Andre I seems like he would be a MUCH MUCH better(and bigger) deal than Kevin Martin would. I don't want to make a trade only to get a guy that i view as the same as Devin Harris and Josh Howard, i want more of a sure thing and i've seen Andre carry the sixers in the reg season and the playoffs.

If we get an experienced two guard that can consistently score the basketball we will be above and beyond the lakers or any other squad in the NBA.

dayman · 01-26-2010, 12:57 AM

http://indyposted.com/9515/kings-off...artin-to-mavs/

small forward Josh Howard has been involved in trade talk over the past couple of seasons, and it looks like this may be the year he is finally moved. The latest rumor has Howard going to Sacramento in exchange for the Kings shooting guard Kevin Martin.

Kevin Martin and Tyreke Evans haven’t played great next to each other since Martin’s return from injury. The Mavs would get a reliable scoring guard to play alongside Jason Kidd and Dirk Nowitzki; whereas the Kings would receive an athletic small forward to run the court with budding superstar Tyreke Evans. Howard does not need to dominate the ball the way Martin does to be effective on the court, which would help the development of Evans.

sike · 01-26-2010, 05:22 PM

if we can take health concerns off the table...give me Martin without a second thought.

Iggy is great, but this team needs what Martin offers: Potent, well rounded Offense.

great thread.

41N · 01-27-2010, 05:50 AM

i also believe that kmart2 would be a better fit than iggy but he's struggling badly in the last three games, shooting 3 of 23 (0 of 5 from three) for combined 15 points (5 per game). i hope he only wants to force a trade...