07-06-2009, 08:57 PM
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#1
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,299
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Mavs Get Freaking Shawn Marion!!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4310011
Updated: July 6, 2009, 9:33 PM ET
Sources: Mavs pursue Raps' MarionComment Email Print Share By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
The Dallas Mavericks, after striking verbal agreements over the past few days to retain Jason Kidd and sign restricted free agent Marcin Gortat to an offer sheet, have identified their latest target: Shawn Marion.
The Mavericks and Toronto Raptors, according to NBA front-office sources, are discussing a sign-and-trade deal that would bring Marion to Dallas.
Although no trade appeared imminent Monday night, Dallas has emerged as perhaps the best option for Marion. He appeared to be heading for a new deal with the Raptors when Toronto succeeded in wooing Hedo Turkoglu away from the Portland Trail Blazers with an 11th-hour bid on Friday after Turkoglu had committed to the Blazers.
If the Mavericks and Raptors can strike a deal -- with a third team potentially needed to help make the salary-cap math work -- sources say that former All-Star guard Jerry Stackhouse will almost certainly be headed to the Raptors in the exchange. Stackhouse is scheduled to earn $7 million next season at age 34, but only $2 million of his salary is guaranteed.
Without a sign-and-trade, Marion's options for landing a contract that starts above the projected mid-level exception of $5.8 million next season would appear to be exhausted, with neither Portland nor Oklahoma City -- teams that still have cap space to burn -- expected to make him an offer.
Marc Stein is a senior NBA writer for ESPN.com.
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07-06-2009, 08:59 PM
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#2
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
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call me underwhelmed if this is the only thing the stack chip lands us.
don't know about others, but i would almost rather have RIP than marion at this stage whose athletic ability is on the decline.
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07-06-2009, 09:00 PM
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#3
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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This lineup kinda intrigues me. It continues to add solid rebounding to the end of game team.
Jkiddo, josh, shawn, dirk, gortat....Very nice rebounding team, stellar in fact. And jet stays on the team as someone who can burn another team up in the pnr if needed.
At the end of game however someone has to sit, josh/shawn/or jet. RC might earn his bucks.
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07-06-2009, 09:02 PM
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#4
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aexchange
call me underwhelmed if this is the only thing the stack chip lands us.
don't know about others, but i would almost rather have RIP than marion at this stage whose athletic ability is on the decline.
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I don't think it's really that much on the decline. I think he has several years of leaps in those legs. He's 31. I don't see what you can really expect to land better than Marion. I personally wouldn't rather have Rip.
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07-06-2009, 09:03 PM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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The first thing you can see right away with stats:
If you see Marion thinking about a 3 pointer, you better fine his ass haha.
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07-06-2009, 09:04 PM
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#6
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
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I would much, much rather have Rip.
However, don't forget how valuable Josh is right now due to his contract. IF Josh and Marion don't work together, you could theoretically trade Josh for a far better return that what Stack would bring, because he's useful and a larger expiring contract.
Marion does intrigue me as a SF option (but not so much paired with Josh) because of his defensive flexibility. He can slide over and guard quite a few PF's, and he can guard the rim when needed. He could theoretically make a huge impact defensively if he still have his hops.
I do really, really fear how quickly Marion's going to decline.
One thing to also keep in mind is that the Mavs could be trying to facilitate a three way trade where Marion goes elsewhere for a piece that fits better. DLord touched on this at DB.com today.
Last edited by jthig32; 07-06-2009 at 09:08 PM.
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07-06-2009, 09:04 PM
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#7
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,050
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nice!
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07-06-2009, 09:04 PM
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#8
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
This lineup kinda intrigues me. It continues to add solid rebounding to the end of game team.
Jkiddo, josh, shawn, dirk, gortat....Very nice rebounding team, stellar in fact. And jet stays on the team as someone who can burn another team up in the pnr if needed.
At the end of game however someone has to sit, josh/shawn/or jet. RC might earn his bucks.
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agreed about the rebounding, but this absolutely puts three people on the floor who have zero ball handling ability. call me an idealist, but i'd actually like to see my 2 and 3 be able to dribble the ball without fumbling it out of bounds.
not sure what the mavs attraction is to people who can't dribble, but finley, then jho, then gerald green, now marion.
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07-06-2009, 09:05 PM
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#9
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 89
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How much is Marion expected to get? I wonder how the math would work.
Is Howard going to play the 2, or is one of them going to come off the bench?
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07-06-2009, 09:09 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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what were marion's numbers last year?
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07-06-2009, 09:09 PM
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#11
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
I would much, much rather have Rip.
However, don't forget how valuable Josh is right now due to his contract. IF Josh and Marion don't work together, you could theoretically trade Josh for a far better return that what Stack would bring, because he's useful and a larger expiring contract.
I do really, really fear how quickly Marion's going to decline.
One thing to also keep in mind is that the Mavs could be trying to facilitate a three way trade where Marion goes elsewhere for a piece that fits better. DLord touched on this at DB.com today.
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There is some serious concern, for sure.
Just off the early ideas this isn't like a OH SH!T this is awesome deal, but it sounds good because we got something of better than average value for dead weight.
Josh and Damp clearly become the next pieces available for trade.
But this goes off of Flac's question yesterday. Kidd signed based off the numbers we know and stuff Cuban told him. He wouldn't necessarily sign if he didn't like what he heard. So, he likes the idea of Marion or could've even suggested it.
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07-06-2009, 09:10 PM
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#12
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dongtouch
How much is Marion expected to get? I wonder how the math would work.
Is Howard going to play the 2, or is one of them going to come off the bench?
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both need to start. im guessing marion would start at the 3 and jho would slide to the 2. this would be an abomination of a trade if you end up getting a bench guy. you already have the perfect guy coming off the bench in JET. we don't need another one.
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07-06-2009, 09:11 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 693
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I would rather have Marion than Rip. Marion can board and play solid defense. Plus he can run with Kidd and generally likes to slash which is what we need WAY more than another jump shooter.
Last edited by MascisMan; 07-06-2009 at 09:12 PM.
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07-06-2009, 09:11 PM
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#14
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Golden Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,209
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I don't know about everybody else but if you add Shawn Marion to this team if would put us past the Spurs and #2 in the west behind the Lakers, Marion is just the kind of player you need around Kidd so you can see Kidd's real skills come to light, the reason why people say Marion has "fell off" is because when he left the Suns he really didn't have a true PG to work, the Heat and Raptors didn't have true PG for Shawn to show his skills but if you put him around Kidd than Shawn might so what he has left.
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07-06-2009, 09:14 PM
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#15
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aexchange
agreed about the rebounding, but this absolutely puts three people on the floor who have zero ball handling ability. call me an idealist, but i'd actually like to see my 2 and 3 be able to dribble the ball without fumbling it out of bounds.
not sure what the mavs attraction is to people who can't dribble, but finley, then jho, then gerald green, now marion.
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A little over the top it appears to me. Gortat/Shawn(I guess I haven't watched enough of him really) are the only folks who cannot handle the ball. Josh isn't a world beater but he can usually get his shot off against most guys, his problem is giving it up .
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07-06-2009, 09:17 PM
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#16
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Moderator
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If we can get Marion for Stack/filler, I have a feeling there's another (larger) deal around the corner... Josh or JET plus any combination of Damp, George, Wright or Carroll should land you a pretty damn good shooting guard (personally I'd shop Howard/George/Wright/Carroll pretty hard, only using Damp if it's for an All-Star...)
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07-06-2009, 09:18 PM
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#17
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
A little over the top it appears to me. Gortat/Shawn(I guess I haven't watched enough of him really) are the only folks who cannot handle the ball. Josh isn't a world beater but he can usually get his shot off against most guys, his problem is giving it up .
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Seems like it's a good thing you have a legit PG who can hand feed them the ball, they just got have to be ready to finish.
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07-06-2009, 09:19 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aexchange
both need to start. im guessing marion would start at the 3 and jho would slide to the 2. this would be an abomination of a trade if you end up getting a bench guy. you already have the perfect guy coming off the bench in JET. we don't need another one.
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And I am guess the end of game lineup would be:
C- Dirk
PF- Marion
SF- JHo
SG- JET
PG- Kidd
Kinda like it except against Dwight or Shaq.
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07-06-2009, 09:19 PM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 624
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Marion will thrive on fast breaks with Kidd and he is a good defender ... he may not be the best ball handler, but considering Josh and Kidd are our best defenders .... we need Marion.
I prefer Josh starting at the 2, and Marion starting at the 3. Marion's ego can't handle coming off the bench ... he was already uncooperative with his situation in Phoenix. I think he'll see this as the chance for a new start, and he knows Dallas has potential at least to make the second round again if he commits himself.
The way I see it is that ... we would go to Howard early like we always do ... then sit Marion when Terry comes ... and then Marion can potentially play again with Terry when Howard sits on the bench.
If we sign and trade Bass for something valuable ... with Singleton getting his minutes, and acquiring Gortat and Marion, and potentially one of the guards/wingman we are looking at in summer league actually making the roster and getting some solid time ... I would say this is a pretty good off season considering that we are not giving up any of our core players.
I think most likely this puts us at 4th in the West. Going into the season, we'll have several trade pieces depending on how things pan out that could make us better (Josh's expiring, Gortat's development and Damp's non-guaranteed contract, a team maybe wanting Terry if he can improve his stock).
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07-06-2009, 09:19 PM
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#20
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
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I think Marion starts but Terry finishes. Terry is a great 4th quarter player imo.
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07-06-2009, 09:20 PM
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#21
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Lazy Moderator
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I don't understand people saying Josh can't dribble. What he can't do is pass. He has no issues driving with the ball at all.
His inability to pass is the only thing that keeps him from being an ideal SG, imo.
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07-06-2009, 09:21 PM
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#22
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Platinum Member
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i can't see this happening. is Marion quick enough to defend a 2 guard, cause Josh doesn't seem to be.
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07-06-2009, 09:22 PM
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#23
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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I'd rather have Marion than RIP because he is better in 2 areas that were a problem for Mavs last year, athleticism and perimeter defense.
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07-06-2009, 09:23 PM
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#24
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
I don't understand people saying Josh can't dribble. What he can't do is pass. He has no issues driving with the ball at all.
His inability to pass is the only thing that keeps him from being an ideal SG, imo.
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i stand corrected about his dribbling ability, but the other thing keeping howard from being an ideal SG is his redonkulous low bball iq.
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07-06-2009, 09:24 PM
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#25
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Guru
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This would officially seal the fate of the 3 PG lineup...
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07-06-2009, 09:25 PM
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#26
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Member
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Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
I don't understand people saying Josh can't dribble. What he can't do is pass. He has no issues driving with the ball at all.
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Against pressure, he struggles. He isn't fluid like a sg should be with the ball. Michael Finley had that same problem. Jason Richardson has that same problem. That is the biggest reason why Howard does the step back j... because his dribble penetration is shaky...
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07-06-2009, 09:25 PM
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#27
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGMaverick9
This would officially seal the fate of the 3 PG lineup...
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Where's KG. That should make him do back flips.
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07-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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#28
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Member
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Location: Where Deustchland Happens
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We allegedly were thinking about trading Josh for this guy towards the latter end of the season during the break. If he can be had for just the stack chip? guy consider me happy. we have no complaints here guys. Dont forget we have a somewhat solid backup center(if you could call damp that) who could always be traded as an expiring, to be honest, we get better defensive, because of the intangibles that shawn brings(blocks, rebounds, on ball defense, weak side defense, slash and dunks). Lets just sit back an entertain this for a while. We bi-ch about the FO all the time. Lets allow them to do there jobs here
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07-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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#29
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Member
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Posts: 27
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Great move he just turned 31, former allstar, motivated and a finisher .
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07-06-2009, 09:27 PM
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#30
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkat
i can't see this happening. is Marion quick enough to defend a 2 guard, cause Josh doesn't seem to be.
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Say what?
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07-06-2009, 09:27 PM
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#31
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Quote:
This would officially seal the fate of the 3 PG lineup...
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And I love Barea. The whole Jose, , Jose Jose, Jose ZJose Jose bit is awesome. But that would be great news. Midget Ball should be put on the shelf forever.
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07-06-2009, 09:27 PM
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#32
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V2M
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Looks like I'm barely getting sleep tonight..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Where's KG. That should make him do back flips.
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haha
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07-06-2009, 09:28 PM
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#33
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,150
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I like the idea. We are not going to do squat anyway. Yes we will make the playoffs with Kidd and the Polish Hammer but nothing much after. LA is much better than they were. The Spurs will be better and Denver isn't bad with Billups. Portland, if they can mature is dangerous and especially if they get Boozer, Lee, Millsap or another physical banger inside.
How do you disrupt talent? You knock them down and get physical. You bump and bang them. The Spurs know how to do that and Detroit use to. If you don't it can be like a Golden State running all over the Mavs. One reason the lakers lost to Boston the year before is because those big guys hit and beat on gasol. Said, don't you come in this painted area. So he didn't. Then it took a Wade performance of Kobe being fearless going inside. He was scarred and said no way. He did the same against Detroit one year when he wouldn't pass the ball to Shaq, so they lost.
I am not taking anything away from Kobe because he is the best in the game or Lebron. The fact is, if you do not have inside players you just can't win. Boston big men get no credit, you know those two big men you never heard of. They are physical and the fact Rondo is fearless going to the basket is huge for that team.
Marion won't knock you down but he use to could jump, was a pest around the boards, could play inside and outside and could defend. We need more defense and we need more paint play and he fits good with Kidd. I agree his long bombing 3's i don't like much either but we have to have more players that will venture into the paint, dunk the ball, and challenge the other team at the rim on defense. We are spent out and can't do much but Marion is atleast hope. It makes us deeper also.
Maybe Marion will inspire Howard to play like he use to and if Marion has something left. They are the type players you need to disrupt the other team, defend, rebound, score in the paint. With Hammer, Dampier, Dirk, Terry, Howard and Marion, maybe Bass you are starting to have some players and getting deeper. I hope this happens because next year you will have to have alot of talent to compete with LA, SA, maybe Den and Port. NO is a good team also and Utah is always tough.
Marion looked lost at times in Miami. He needs a good passing pg and him and Kidd could be fit for each other as he and Nash was. I hope we get him, we have nothing to lose and only upside possibility here. Good job Cuban, keep on trying. This player can also help Kidd.
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07-06-2009, 09:28 PM
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#34
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,002
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and he can board. JHO can dribble but he just isn't the ideal 2 guard is he slow? No, but he isn't quick enough to keep up with the Wade's, Kobe's, and lots of other 2 guards (btw this I a reason I don't think VC or RJ is going to help their team as much as most thinK), shop Josh and Damp for a legit 2 starting guard.
Last edited by mavs777; 07-06-2009 at 09:30 PM.
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07-06-2009, 09:29 PM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,054
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Actually it wasn't KG that first thought the 3 guard lineup should go.... there was another poster who rarely posts that believed it should have been done away with.... (I can't remember his name but I think it had a 3 name name... started with a D)
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07-06-2009, 09:29 PM
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#36
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Golden Member
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07-06-2009, 09:33 PM
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#37
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 21,342
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Can anyone tell me where I can get scoring stats for players by quarter?
Can Marion be relied upon to get baskets at "winning time"? (late 4th quarter)
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07-06-2009, 09:37 PM
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#39
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flacolaco
Can anyone tell me where I can get scoring stats for players by quarter?
Can Marion be relied upon to get baskets at "winning time"? (late 4th quarter)
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See I'm confused by you. All season you talk about the defense (rightfully so).
But now you're harping on fourth quarter offense of all things.
Marion could possibly contribute to fourth quarter offense by being able to play as a small, offensive center without destroying you defensively.
And he's a real weapon defensively and on the fast break if he's healthy and right.
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07-06-2009, 09:40 PM
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#40
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
See I'm confused by you. All season you talk about the defense (rightfully so).
But now you're harping on fourth quarter offense of all things.
Marion could possibly contribute to fourth quarter offense by being able to play as a small, offensive center without destroying you defensively.
And he's a real weapon defensively and on the fast break if he's healthy and right.
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Right...the offense might be iffy, but the thing you're probably counting on the most from him in crunch time is the defense. He's extremely versatile on who you put him on at that point.
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