Vinsanity and a vet PG... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 07-27-2004, 09:54 AM

I'm not sure what Toronto wants, and I think a third team would probably have to be involved (New York?), but would you do a trade that sent away Walker, Delk, and Howard and brought back Carter and Alvin Williams?

Bradley - Booth - Benga - Laettner
Nowitzki - Najera
Carter - Stackhouse
Finley - Daniels
Harris - Williams

IR: Pavel, Steffansson, TAW

SeriousSummer · 07-27-2004, 10:14 AM

I'd do it, but I think it takes a third team that wants Walker--I guess that means either New York or Philadelphia if the rumors are correct (a fairly uncertain conclusion). I don't know if either of those teams have much that Toronto wants either, though.

SeriousSummer · 07-27-2004, 10:22 AM

Maybe a deal that sends Iverson to Toronto, something like this, but I don't think Philly gets enough in the deal:

Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 37.9 minutes)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
SG Allen Iverson (26.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 6.8 apg in 42.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +1.5 rpg, and -2.2 apg.

Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
PF Christian Laettner (5.9 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 20.5 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: SG Jalen Rose (15.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.0 apg in 66 games)
SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 73 games)
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 56 games)
Change in team outlook: -0.3 ppg, -11.6 rpg, and +3.0 apg.

Philadelphia trades: SG Allen Iverson (26.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 6.8 apg in 42.5 minutes)
Philadelphia receives: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: -3.8 ppg, +10.1 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Philly would have a great cap situation in a year, though, when Robinson, Walker and MacCulloch (because of injury) all roll off the cap.

mavsfan4life7 · 07-27-2004, 10:26 AM

I only want carter, if that means getting rid of finley or stackhouse or both!

sike · 07-27-2004, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'm not sure what Toronto wants, and I think a third team would probably have to be involved (New York?), but would you do a trade that sent away Walker, Delk, and Howard and brought back Carter and Alvin Williams?

Bradley - Booth - Benga - Laettner
Nowitzki - Najera
Carter - Stackhouse
Finley - Daniels
Harris - Williams

IR: Pavel, Steffansson, TAW

it looks amazing at first, but I think it would be a replay of last year.....look at the 2 and 3 spots kg...all those guys need 10-16 shots a game (with carter needing around 18) and that for a team that needs to focus on its star Forward(who himself needs 18-20 shots a game) who needs a retrenching year does not look great...If they get Carter, Stack or Fin need to go.

In the lineup you propose kg, how would you distribute the shots?

I like Alvin Williams...but is he drastically better than AJ?

doggnutz · 07-27-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'm not sure what Toronto wants, and I think a third team would probably have to be involved (New York?), but would you do a trade that sent away Walker, Delk, and Howard and brought back Carter and Alvin Williams?

Bradley - Booth - Benga - Laettner
Nowitzki - Najera
Carter - Stackhouse
Finley - Daniels
Harris - Williams

IR: Pavel, Steffansson, TAW

Where do I sign? Man you would know have a guy that can score with 2 seconds left on the clock. Your still a young team and you still have tradeable pieces that won't empty your team in the next offseason.

dalmations202 · 07-27-2004, 11:19 AM

KG, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But:

I am expecting something along these lines to go down.

Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
SF Jon Stefansson (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.4 ppg, -8.0 rpg, and +0.6 apg.

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
SF Jon Stefansson (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 80 games)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 65 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, +15.7 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

New York trades: C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: -6.2 ppg, -7.7 rpg, and +0.4 apg.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

then I expect Delk to be moved to Atlanta or somesuch for a bag of beans and a low future draft pick.

Bradley (20), Booth (20), Benga (8)
Nowitzki (35), Najera (13)
Carter (30), Stackhouse (18)
Daniels (20), Finley (22), Stackhouse (6)
Norris (18), Harris (18), Daniels(10), AJ (2)

IR: Pavel, TAW, L8

Get the cap savings from L8 at the end of the year.

Offense from Nowitzki, Carter, Fin, Stackhouse, Daniels -- also this is Nellies smallball lineup.
Defense from Bradley, Booth, Benga, Najera, Harris.

This would be a pretty descent lineup for now and future. Especially if Bradley, Booth, Benga can actually guard someone, block some shots, and rebound the ball.

Future of Harris, Daniels, Benga, Pavel isn't bad. Carter and Nowitzki are in their primes now. Finley, Bradley have a few good years left. Booth, Najera are good role players. I'd go to bat with that lineup and take my chances.

IMO, I think that lineup would put them in the top 5 teams in the league next year.

Bradley (20)
Booth (20)
Benga (8)
Nowitzki (35)
Najera (13)
Carter (30)
Stackhouse (24)
Finley (22)
Daniels (30)
Norris (18)
Harris (18)
AJ (2)

sike · 07-27-2004, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dalmations202
KG, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But:

I am expecting something along these lines to go down.

Dallas trades: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
SF Jon Stefansson (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 23.7 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.4 ppg, -8.0 rpg, and +0.6 apg.

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: SF Josh Howard (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
SF Jon Stefansson (8.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 apg in 67 games)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 80 games)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 65 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.8 ppg, +15.7 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

New York trades: C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: -6.2 ppg, -7.7 rpg, and +0.4 apg.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

then I expect Delk to be moved to Atlanta or somesuch for a bag of beans and a low future draft pick.

Bradley (20), Booth (20), Benga (8)
Nowitzki (35), Najera (13)
Carter (30), Stackhouse (18)
Daniels (20), Finley (22), Stackhouse (6)
Norris (18), Harris (18), Daniels(10), AJ (2)

IR: Pavel, TAW, L8

Get the cap savings from L8 at the end of the year.

Offense from Nowitzki, Carter, Fin, Stackhouse, Daniels -- also this is Nellies smallball lineup.
Defense from Bradley, Booth, Benga, Najera, Harris.

This would be a pretty descent lineup for now and future. Especially if Bradley, Booth, Benga can actually guard someone, block some shots, and rebound the ball.

Future of Harris, Daniels, Benga, Pavel isn't bad. Carter and Nowitzki are in their primes now. Finley, Bradley have a few good years left. Booth, Najera are good role players. I'd go to bat with that lineup and take my chances.

IMO, I think that lineup would put them in the top 5 teams in the league next year.

Bradley (20)
Booth (20)
Benga (8)
Nowitzki (35)
Najera (13)
Carter (30)
Stackhouse (24)
Finley (22)
Daniels (30)
Norris (18)
Harris (18)
AJ (2)

Finley playing 22 would be a huge statement to this team's opinion of Fin's future. Norris is an "ok" guy and thats all, Stackhouse could probably handle 24 a game, Carter would want more than 30, Dirk would want more than 35, and those 2minutes a game for AJ is just cruel [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
puppy, if you have a thougt on it, do the shot distribution...that is what I am interested in...

Jeremiah · 07-27-2004, 11:36 AM

...

vinnieponte · 07-27-2004, 11:42 AM

if all were to come out like this trade all we would need to do is fill our center position cause you know bradley won't get it done in the west

dalmations202 · 07-27-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Finley playing 22 would be a huge statement to this team's opinion of Fin's future. Norris is an "ok" guy and thats all, Stackhouse could probably handle 24 a game, Carter would want more than 30, Dirk would want more than 35, and those 2minutes a game for AJ is just cruel
puppy, if you have a thougt on it, do the shot distribution...that is what I am interested in...

I really figure that Bradley gets 10-12 and Dirk gets 5-6 at the Center. Smallball with Carter at the PF for 4-6m a night. Benga, Najera, and AJ with many DNP- CD.

I expect approximately 100 shots a game, and to average 105 ppg with this lineup. ~40% shooting 80+pts plus 20 - 25 ft's a night.
Dirk 20
VC 20
Finley 12
Daniels 12
Stackhouse 14
Harris 5
Norris, Bradley, Najera, Booth, Benga share cleanup 17 shots combined

Not sure that Daniels, Fin, and Stack would get enough shots -- but I think this would be best for the Mavs.

sike · 07-27-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

puppy said: I really figure that Bradley gets 10-12 and Dirk gets 5-6 at the Center. Smallball with Carter at the PF for 4-6m a night. Benga, Najera, and AJ with many DNP- CD.
I expect approximately 100 shots a game, and to average 105 ppg with this lineup. ~40% shooting 80+pts plus 20 - 25 ft's a night.
Dirk 20
VC 20
Finley 12
Daniels 12
Stackhouse 14
Harris 5
Norris, Bradley, Najera, Booth, Benga share cleanup 17 shots combined
Not sure that Daniels, Fin, and Stack would get enough shots -- but I think this would be best for the Mavs.

if dirk and carter get 20 a game it would be best for the mavs and good for Nellie...but I dont see it. Nelson has not proved willing to get His best offensive options the ball when there are matchups to be exploited by his "basketball genius". I could see this proposed lineup falling into all the same issues that screwed up the team last season...the centers do not need 17 shots a game, and Harris will take more than five a game. I just think this lineup is too ball hungry. For the team's overall best they get carter and somehow include either Fin or Stack in the deal(Walker is accepted as being gone)

dalmations202 · 07-27-2004, 12:38 PM

Quote:

sike says:if dirk and carter get 20 a game it would be best for the mavs and good for Nellie...but I dont see it. Nelson has not proved willing to get His best offensive options the ball when there are matchups to be exploited by his "basketball genius". I could see this proposed lineup falling into all the same issues that screwed up the team last season...the centers do not need 17 shots a game, and Harris will take more than five a game. I just think this lineup is too ball hungry. For the team's overall best they get carter and somehow include either Fin or Stack in the deal(Walker is accepted as being gone)

I agree, but don't see how the $$$'s can work that way. Fin is now a spot up shooter. He may not think so, but his game shows it.

17 shots for clean up is not that many IMO- if their are 100 shots taken, and only 40 made that is following up on 1 out of 3 misses, and this would be divided by 5 people.

I agree that Fin or Stack need to go in the deal, but if you move them and keep Howard, you still have the problem. I just don't see the numbers allowing for it though. If Stack, Daniels, and Fin would accept a reduced role, this team could be awesome though.

You are probably right in the end though. This lineup would be very ball hungary.