Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Go Back   Dallas-Mavs.com Forums > Mavs / NBA > General Mavs Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2003, 10:17 PM   #1
ames7
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,947
ames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to behold
Default Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Sporting News.

A month into his grandest experiment, Don Nelson insists he doesn't get a thrill from being different. That is, the Mavericks coach isn't starting a 6-8 center and encouraging his 7-0 forward to jack up 3-pointers and letting a 6-9 forward run the offense merely to bolster his reputation of being unconventional.

Quite the contrary. Give Nelson a 7-foot center who can be as dominant as Shaquille O'Neal, and Nelson would be content to coach like Phil Jackson, he says, content to "cross my legs and let them play." Of course, only one team has Shaq, and one has Tim Duncan. That leaves 27 others to dream and scheme.

When it comes to scheming, no coach has had more practice than Nelson. He has 1,105 wins -- third most in NBA history -- yet the only time he had a dominant center was the three-quarters of a season he coached Patrick Ewing in New York. Nelson, remember, is the coach who once stuck 7-6 Manute Bol at the 3-point line, guided the Warriors to the playoffs with 6-foot point guard Tim Hardaway as the team's No. 1 inside option and devised the point forward position in Milwaukee with Paul Pressey.

Such unorthodox ideas are called junking up the game and usually are employed when a team is outmanned in the middle. Even though the Mavs have an owner in Mark Cuban who throws around money like the billionaire he is, the club realizes it must rely on some creative junk to rise above Shaq's Lakers and Duncan's Spurs.

The Mavs won a franchise-best 60 games last season, but that did not keep them from an offseason overhaul. Only five players are back after the Mavs moved Nick Van Exel and Raef LaFrentz, among others, and brought in Antoine Walker, a three-time All-Star, and Antawn Jamison, a career 20-point scorer, plus two key role players: guard Tony Delk and center Danny Fortson. So far, the changes have done little to change league opinion that the Mavs remain too soft.

"Their pieces are too similar," says one scout. "I don't like their moves." Says another, "The Mavs are still the Mavs. You don't know how far their shooting can take them. They still could lose in the first round or reach the conference finals."

The team's 9-4 start has failed to provide sufficient evidence that the Mavericks have closed the gap at the top of the Western Conference. But as sure as Cuban likes to rip the refs after losses, believe this: The Mavs will be better; recent history suggests as much. They have improved their record each of the past five seasons. This time four years ago, the Mavs were a bottom-rung team playing in front of lots of empty seats in an aging arena. Now they're one of the NBA's marquee teams, playing before sellouts in perhaps the nicest new building in the league.

The improvement can be traced to the team's trades. In three years of dealing, the Mavs have parlayed Christian Laettner, some bit players and plenty of Cuban's cash into Jamison and Walker. The Walker and Jamison deals have made the Mavs younger, bigger and more athletic -- better able to try "junk" on opponents.

"What Don Nelson likes to do is get you into a 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 game to take advantage of his best matchups," Grizzlies coach Hubie Brown says. "The athleticism, the dribbling and the shooting ability of the players that he can put in this action make it very difficult to defend."

The newcomers also have shored up the Mavs' weak offensive rebounding. The team ranked 24th in offensive boards last season but has climbed into the top 10 this season. "Last year, if you stopped their initial thrust, you could push it up on them," Grizzlies assistant coach Tony Barone says. "Now they really are attacking the offensive glass. That's a major issue people aren't paying attention to."


Sixth-man sense
For Jamison, going from No. 1 option on the Warriors to the Mavericks' bench has not been without struggles. In a mid-November overtime loss to the Grizzlies, he missed his first seven shots and never got into the flow. Two nights later against the Trail Blazers, he made five consecutive shots in 3-plus minutes, triggering a Mavs rally. "Having a scorer like that come off the bench gets us to another level," Nelson says.

Bringing Jamison off the bench also allows Nelson, who starts four players who have been All-Stars, to tinker with the fifth spot in the lineup. He already has given four players a chance. Fortson, a 6-8 rebounding specialist, opened at center against Shaq and the Rockets' Yao Ming. Scrappy Eduardo Najera, also 6-8, started in the middle when point guard Steve Nash was injured. Delk was starting at guard before straining a hamstring. Against Memphis, Nelson tried to surprise the Grizzlies by going with rookie Josh Howard, hoping the decision would force Brown to change his rotation. Brown doesn't like to fiddle with his substitution patterns, though, and didn't bite. After Howard made an early contribution with five first quarter points, he didn't leave the bench after halftime, and the improved Grizzlies won in overtime.


Walker makes the point
In his new job as Celtics president, Danny Ainge wasted little time dumping Walker, but the Mavericks are glad to have a 6-9 point forward. Walker was considered a me-first player in Boston with an unhealthy affinity for shooting 3s, but the Mavs have seen few bad shots from him and even fewer of his silly shimmy shakes. Walker seems to be playing with an extra spring in his step and not just because of the 20 pounds he dropped. Through 13 games, he was showing the triple-threat ability the Mavs had hoped for, leading the team twice in scoring twice, three times in assists and five times in rebounds. his rebounds are up and his scoring -- and shots -- are down from last season. "We have a lot of guys who can score at a very high level on this team," he says, "which makes it a lot easier for me."

Nelson plans to eventually run as many as half of the Mavs' plays through Walker, which, besides giving opponents more to think about, should ease the load on the man who makes the team go -- Nash. One of the Mavericks' most-called plays is a pick-and-roll with Nash screening for power forward Dirk Nowitzki on the perimeter -- a play no other team in the league uses. However, setting screens on forwards comes with a price for the 180-pound Nash, who has limped to the end of the past three seasons. That's partly because of Nash's frenetic game. He always seems to be going at full speed, nearly to the point of being out of control.

"Nash is the key to their whole ballclub," Barone says. "Watch him. He never gives up his dribble unless he's ready to make something happen. He has such good sense with the ball that he will fool you. He may not make the pass that becomes an assist all the time, but when he doesn't, he's usually making the pass that leads to an assist." In fact, Nash's assists are up over last season even though his minutes have dropped slightly.


The new mix
The Mavs aren't sure how long the newcomers will take to fully mesh with the nucleus of Nowitzki, Nash and Michael Finley. However, what team that made offseason changes hasn't struggled?

The Mavericks still don't have anyone likely to qualify for the All-Defense team, although the team's defense is not as bad as it's perceived to be. The Mavs limited opponents to a franchise-low 43.8 percent shooting last season and have been even better so far this season. They have learned how to mix their defenses to keep opponents off-balance, using a zone more than most teams.

After all, there's no better way to junk up a game than to throw in a zone defense. No one knows that better than the junk master himself, Nelson.
__________________
Let's Go Mavs! Leht's Go Stars!
ames7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-02-2003, 10:29 PM   #2
Walkerforthree
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,083
Walkerforthree is on a distinguished road
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

"Nelson plans to eventually run as many as half of the Mavs' plays through Walker"

Oh god
Walkerforthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2003, 10:36 PM   #3
Walkerforthree
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,083
Walkerforthree is on a distinguished road
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Walker has been a nice asset this year. But I do not want 50% of our play's being run through a guy who shoots 43% from the field, 27% from downtown and 54% from the line, not to mention he turns it over a lot and is barely averaging 1.00 points per shot. Also, this is just Nellie regressing dirk, so is the O never going to be run through the freaking most productive, best offensive player on the team? Its just asinine, Nellie is trying to ruin Walker's solid play by forcing this team into his hands. This is Dirk's team. This is not a knock against my man walka, but it is against nellie.
Walkerforthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2003, 10:47 PM   #4
ames7
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,947
ames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to beholdames7 is a splendid one to behold
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

To his credit, after that 9-TO game, Walker's kept his TOs down pretty impressively until tonight. I've been surprised at how well he's found ways to contribute. Eventually he & the team will find the 3 shot.

But I agree, 50%? No. Not the key.
__________________
Let's Go Mavs! Leht's Go Stars!
ames7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2003, 10:58 PM   #5
jayC
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,460
jayC is just really nicejayC is just really nicejayC is just really nicejayC is just really nicejayC is just really nicejayC is just really nice
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Well if he cut down on his shots from down town hed be great for us. He still does something that is rare for an NBA big man pass the basketball with great success.
jayC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2003, 11:53 PM   #6
MightyToine
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,910
MightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these parts
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Walker committed 5 Turnovers tonight because he got FRUSTRATED at his poor shooting so he tried to do a bit too much as far as maKing passes go...Thus the Turnovers and such.



What Is Encouraging, though, is that he only took 12 shots and let the Finleys and Jamisons of the world shoot more....

12 shots a game? I can deal with that.
__________________
<img src="http://www.kernel.uky.edu/1996/spring/0318/art/walker.jpg
">


This was SUPPOSED to be a picture of Toine....But I guess even the Forum itself got sick of seeing him...
MightyToine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2003, 11:55 PM   #7
MightyToine
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,910
MightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these parts
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: jayC
Well if he cut down on his shots from down town hed be great for us. He still does something that is rare for an NBA big man pass the basketball with great success.


Well Walker once said in a recent article that if he never shot 3's, he'd be shooting 45 to 48% from the field.....


__________________
<img src="http://www.kernel.uky.edu/1996/spring/0318/art/walker.jpg
">


This was SUPPOSED to be a picture of Toine....But I guess even the Forum itself got sick of seeing him...
MightyToine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:22 AM   #8
kingrex
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,229
kingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the rough
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: ames7
Sporting News.

Give Nelson a 7-foot center who can be as dominant as Shaquille O'Neal, and Nelson would be content to coach like Phil Jackson, he says, content to "cross my legs and let them play."
I really do believe this about Nelson. I think his use of "unconventional" methods is part of his genius. I think his use of "small ball" is a bit overstated by many. Yes, he utilizes it more than most, but he has also proven to make it work. I think if a team is undermanned, then I want a coach that has the creativity to come up with a scheme to beat the other team.

Now, having said that, there is something to be said about "over-using" these schemes, but I'll take that on a case by case basis.
kingrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:24 AM   #9
kingrex
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,229
kingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the rough
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: ames7
Sporting News.

This time four years ago, the Mavs were a bottom-rung team playing in front of lots of empty seats in an aging arena. Now they're one of the NBA's marquee teams, playing before sellouts in perhaps the nicest new building in the league.
Mavs fans take note and get some perspective. Even when the team isn't playing that great, always remember the depths from which this fanchise rose.

kingrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:27 AM   #10
sike
The Preacha
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
sike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond reputesike has a reputation beyond repute
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Eventually he & the team will find the 3 shot.
what makes us think he will find the stroke again??? look at his 3pt% over the last four years and you would think the opposite!
__________________

ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
sike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:29 AM   #11
kingrex
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,229
kingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the rough
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: ames7
Sporting News.

The newcomers also have shored up the Mavs' weak offensive rebounding. The team ranked 24th in offensive boards last season but has climbed into the top 10 this season. "Last year, if you stopped their initial thrust, you could push it up on them," Grizzlies assistant coach Tony Barone says. "Now they really are attacking the offensive glass. That's a major issue people aren't paying attention to."
I think offensive rebounding (other than improved-defense) is the key for the Mavericks this year if they hope to improve on what they did last year. This team has gotten better every year, and getting second, or even third, chances on the offensive side will greatly improve their fortunes. With as many skilled-offensive players the Mavs have, getting more chances at the basket will make them even tougher to play against.

I think Barone's quote is right on.

kingrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:34 AM   #12
kingrex
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,229
kingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the rough
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: ames7
Sporting News.

Nelson plans to eventually run as many as half of the Mavs' plays through Walker, which, besides giving opponents more to think about, should ease the load on the man who makes the team go -- Nash.
I don't think this necessarily means that Walk will get more shots than Dirk. In fact, it may even mean more shots for Dirk, especially when Walk becomes more familiar with Dirk's tendencies. In time, these two will improve their high-low post scheme to a point similar to when Nash and Dirk run the pick and roll.

kingrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 11:35 AM   #13
kingrex
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,229
kingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the roughkingrex is a jewel in the rough
Default RE: Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Great post ames!!

Plenty to comment on.
kingrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 01:22 PM   #14
FineCubanCigar
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,661
FineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of lightFineCubanCigar is a glorious beacon of light
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

lets face it, with Shaq still in the league its our only hope.
__________________
In Cuban, I Trust
FineCubanCigar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 01:51 PM   #15
MightyToine
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,910
MightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these partsMightyToine is infamous around these parts
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: kingrex
Quote:
Originally posted by: ames7
Sporting News.

Nelson plans to eventually run as many as half of the Mavs' plays through Walker, which, besides giving opponents more to think about, should ease the load on the man who makes the team go -- Nash.
I don't think this necessarily means that Walk will get more shots than Dirk. In fact, it may even mean more shots for Dirk, especially when Walk becomes more familiar with Dirk's tendencies. In time, these two will improve their high-low post scheme to a point similar to when Nash and Dirk run the pick and roll.


I agree 100%. Walker took awhile(at least a season) to develop "chemistry" with Pierce. I see no reason why the Same thing won't happen Involving Walker and DIRK this time....




__________________
<img src="http://www.kernel.uky.edu/1996/spring/0318/art/walker.jpg
">


This was SUPPOSED to be a picture of Toine....But I guess even the Forum itself got sick of seeing him...
MightyToine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2003, 02:45 PM   #16
Walkerforthree
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,083
Walkerforthree is on a distinguished road
Default RE:Mavs Eliminating the Middle Man

Quote:
Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
lets face it, with Shaq still in the league its our only hope.
wtf?
Walkerforthree is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.