Mavs off-season and draft 2023 thread - Page 28 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-25-2023, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

So I was watching this show called "The Carton Show"

This was on Friday and Tim Hardaway Sr was on the show

The questioned was asked if he thought Jason Kidd was a good coach. He responded with emphatic yes and th3n went on to say that Dallas has plays designed by kidd which doesn't get called often because of Luka.

He stated the offense is so tailored to Luka that a lot of the motion sets the mavs have installed don't get called or utilized because it would require Luka to play off ball a bit more.

So it will be interesting to see if they use the offseason to finally tailor some of it to involve Luka more off ball.

I think we can all agree at times when Luka missed games plenty of games mainly Green and Hardy were playing off ball next to Kyrie and did some great things because the offseason was spread out and they were also able to get out and run more in transition

We can all agree that Luka can mature more with playmaking and such.

But objectively speaking, Kidd was awful last season regardless of what Luka was doing.

I mean, Luka was surrounded by Bullock and DFS who were clanking threes left and right while not actually doing what they are supposed to be doing which is defending.

It's easy to forget that Luka was having a Michael Jordan first half of the season until he was inevitably run down because of how bad everyone else was.

No amount of playing off the ball was going to fix that. Mostly because we didn't have any other ball handlers other than Spencer until the Irving trade.

Melonhead · 06-25-2023, 07:02 PM

Personally don?t trust anything that THJ sr says, it?s filtered through his bias based on past comments. Just continuing his criticisms of Luka. He also thinks they shouldn?t have made the trade because ?what?s not broken doesn?t need to be fixed? Luka was on the verge of breaking down at his usage.

EricaLubarsky · 06-25-2023, 08:21 PM

Rockets are targeting Powell

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/.am...e-agency-rumor

BPo001 · 06-25-2023, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Rockets are targeting Powell

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/.am...e-agency-rumor

I like the idea of Powell coming back to mentor Lively, but I imagine he can get a more significant role elsewhere.

tap2390 · 06-25-2023, 10:09 PM

I really really really hope Lively and OMax are given every opportunity to earn starting spots, instead of Kidd?s usual bullshit (see Green post Holiday acquisition). The faster those guys are ready to contribute, the higher our ceiling.

Ideal rotation (IMO)

Luka - Hardy
Kyrie - THJ
Green - Bull
OMax - Maxi
Lively - McGee

Melonhead · 06-25-2023, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I really really really hope Lively and OMax are given every opportunity to earn starting spots, instead of Kidd?s usual bullshit (see Green post Holiday acquisition). The faster those guys are ready to contribute, the higher our ceiling.

Ideal rotation (IMO)

Luka - Hardy
Kyrie - THJ
Green - Bull
OMax - Maxi
Lively - McGee

I have faith they will get the opportunity because someone other than Kidd will be developing them. Get them in early and often and by seasons end they will look like completely different players.

Melonhead · 06-25-2023, 10:39 PM

For anyone that still oddly wants Mavs to bring DFS back?

https://twitter.com/the_bball_index/...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

EricaLubarsky · 06-25-2023, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For anyone that still oddly wants Mavs to bring DFS back?

https://twitter.com/the_bball_index/...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

Don?t defame dodo.

Was he the best player? No
Was he the most efficient player? No
Am I in love with him? Yes I am.

SMC0007 · 06-25-2023, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For anyone that still oddly wants Mavs to bring DFS back?

https://twitter.com/the_bball_index/...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

Not me. Ive been done with DFS, THJ and Bullock
...and Powell. I hope the Rocjets pick him up.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-25-2023, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Not me. Ive been done with DFS, THJ and Bullock
...and Powell. I hope the Rocjets pick him up.

I'd drive him to Houston.

We didn't make the playoffs with Kyrie and Luka. It's time to clean house.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-26-2023, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd drive him to Houston.

We didn't make the playoffs with Kyrie and Luka. It's time to clean house.

I agree. Powell seems like a swell guy and everyone seems to like him, but he has exactly one useful NBA skill- catching lob passes. We have desperately needed a real rim protector for the entirety of Luka's career. We need to surround Luka and Kyrie with guys who can defend and rebound. Whether or not the Mavs have actually accomplished this remains to me seen, but it looks like at least they have the right goals in mind.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

No doubt in my mind Powell is back on a much smaller deal that previously. And im fine with that because he's serviceable on a heavily reduced role. I blame the FO for making him the starter over the years

Yes, Powell is a very serviceable backup center. Good enough so that the FO HAD to make him the starter, simply due to their not bringing onto the team an actual starting center. They tried, with McGee, but uh, fail (although McGee played REALLY well at the end of last season.). Wood didn't even understand what he was supposed to do on defense, creating a huge defensive problem. Powell knows his role, is quite good at it, and plays it pretty well. That role just needs to not be starting center, and at a reduced salary.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I agree. Powell seems like a swell guy and everyone seems to like him, but he has exactly one useful NBA skill- catching lob passes. We have desperately needed a real rim protector for the entirety of Luka's career. We need to surround Luka and Kyrie with guys who can defend and rebound. Whether or not the Mavs have actually accomplished this remains to me seen, but it looks like at least they have the right goals in mind.

Wrong...he has several other skills (although that is his one OFFENSIVE skill....people focus WAY too much on that end of the court). He knows his assignments, plays good team defense, is a serviceable rebounder, and knows how to defend other centers although often physically overmatched.
Why do you think he was given, and kept, the starting role? Because he was the best option, for all of the above reasons. Why was he deemed much better than Wood, for example, who clearly had better OFFENSIVE capabilities? Because he was better at everything else.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

For anyone that still oddly wants Mavs to bring DFS back?

https://twitter.com/the_bball_index/...P-fUxROA9UvgJA

Again, only focuses on OFFENSE. Easiest way to see his impact on defense is noticing how badly the Mavs sucked at that when he was gone.

If you score say 12 points per game, but cause your team to give up 15...you're a net liability on the court. When DFS left, who was the Mavs stopper? No one...no one at all. This then caused other breakdowns everywhere on defense, and really exposed that the Mavs didn't have a shot blocker. DFS provided value on the floor when he didn't score a point.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I have faith they will get the opportunity because someone other than Kidd will be developing them. Get them in early and often and by seasons end they will look like completely different players.

Agree (and really hope we both are right). I'm highly optimistic...for what the needed, I think both will turn out to be great picks, and Lively may turn out to be one of the real steals in the draft.

My only concern is that it was long thought that it takes a center about 5 years to develop. That was back when it was more of a low post game, but clearly that time frame causes..problems. But the main contribution both need to make is NOT on offense, but on defense, and I'm thinking they will make major contributions quickly.

I also think no one is factoring in that Luca seems to be in incredible shape now, and therefore could play a more uptempo game...which would really help both, as well as Irving playing more up tempo when he's running point.

sig · 06-26-2023, 10:32 AM

Mavs still need to get a solid starter or 2 in the frontcourt. The rooks are great pickups but just don't see walking in and be big impact players right away. My hope is thet get consistent rotation spots for about 40 minutes a game combined. I look at the impact that Kessler had on Utah and think the Mavs would be lucky to get that in year 1 from Lively. For OMAX maybe his rookie season can be what Green did in his 2nd year. Maybe a deal of SnT Wood or THJ for Bamba and Vanderbilt.

Really with 2 defensive rooks like OMAX and Lively, Wood now seems like a fit. He struggles with switches and Kidd;s defensive help schemes but provides rebounding and rim protecting in the paint and is really good offensively. That was Kdds biggest failure last year. Throwing Wood under the bus for all the defensive woes was just wrong. I remember when RC was coach that often it was mentioned that players did n't fully understand his system until the 2nd year. Mavs had plenty of defensive woes. Maxi was hurt. DFS too for a couple weeks then traded. Bullock got old it seems and THJ talks about defense but is no better than Wood.

I wonder what direction the Hornets are going after drafting Miller. Hornets indicate they are prioritizing both Bridges and PJ along with DSJ as FA's. Bridges and PJ are RFA's. Hornets looking for vet presence. I suspect THJ fits that mold or at least thinks of himslef as that kind of player. Mavs should be talking to both Bridges and PJ as FA's. Should Mavs offer 27 FRP to get one of them? Besides THJ they have SnT Wood possibility.

https://swarmandsting.com/2022/11/01...e-role-player/

sig · 06-26-2023, 10:37 AM

I don't want powell back until they unload McGee. I'd rather have powell because he would be a solid mentor for the young guys especially Lively and can be DNP-CD player who will be productive when called on when load management and injuries pop up.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Again, only focuses on OFFENSE. Easiest way to see his impact on defense is noticing how badly the Mavs sucked at that when he was gone.

If you score say 12 points per game, but cause your team to give up 15...you're a net liability on the court. When DFS left, who was the Mavs stopper? No one...no one at all. This then caused other breakdowns everywhere on defense, and really exposed that the Mavs didn't have a shot blocker. DFS provided value on the floor when he didn't score a point.

DFS's defensive rating dropped from 110 the WCF season to 117 last season, so yes, his defense fell too. Yes, we can all cherry pick advanced stats, but I haven't see a single stat that showed anything but a big fall.

I would go as far to say that both he and Bullock were net negatives last season. Really bizarre to see.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

Mavs still need to get a solid starter or 2 in the frontcourt. The rooks are great pickups but just don't see walking in and be big impact players right away. My hope is thet get consistent rotation spots for about 40 minutes a game combined. I look at the impact that Kessler had on Utah and think the Mavs would be lucky to get that in year 1 from Lively. For OMAX maybe his rookie season can be what Green did in his 2nd year. Maybe a deal of SnT Wood or THJ for Bamba and Vanderbilt.

Yes, agree. But should consider that Lively is a better athlete than Kessler. But another solid veteran or two is needed.

Quote:

Really with 2 defensive rooks like OMAX and Lively, Wood now seems like a fit. He struggles with switches and Kidd;s defensive help schemes but provides rebounding and rim protecting in the paint and is really good offensively. That was Kdds biggest failure last year. Throwing Wood under the bus for all the defensive woes was just wrong.

Well, yes, and no. No, Wood wasn't responsible for all the Mavs defensive woes, but he made the defense worse everywhere. When one player has a defensive breakdown, others need to try to cover that up...leaving other defensive breakdowns. I think this is especially true with your center, who is supposed to be your clean up guy.

Quote:

I remember when RC was coach that often it was mentioned that players did n't fully understand his system until the 2nd year. Mavs had plenty of defensive woes. Maxi was hurt. DFS too for a couple weeks then traded. Bullock got old it seems and THJ talks about defense but is no better than Wood.

Yes, people underestimate how long it takes for the team to get the scheme, and then learn how to apply it. Although, conversely, a good coach should also make adjustments accordingly. Back when I played a little college football, the defensive scheme was very complicated..and we had breakdowns. The coach realized this, simplified the scheme, and defense improved dramatically, as that eliminated the breakdowns. Point being, coaches need to account for this and adjust.

BigDog63 · 06-26-2023, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I have faith they will get the opportunity because someone other than Kidd will be developing them. Get them in early and often and by seasons end they will look like completely different players.

Agree (and really hope we both are right). I'm highly optimistic...for what the needed, I think both will turn out to be great picks, and Lively may turn out to be one of the real steals in the draft.

My only concern is that it was long thought that it takes a center about 5 years to develop. That was back when it was more of a low post game, but clearly that time frame causes..problems. But the main contribution both need to make is NOT on offense, but on defense, and I'm thinking they will make major contributions quickly.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 01:02 PM

The Utah Jazz are acquiring John Collins from the Atlanta Hawks, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Yahoo Sports' Jake Fischer also reports the deal is in the works.

Going back to the Hawks will be Rudy Gay and a second-round pick.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 01:58 PM

I will say that just bolsters the Jazz already stout big man lineup. Mavs can't seem to get bigs to save their life (although I wanted nothing to do with Collins and his contract).

We still need at least 1-2 starters.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 03:34 PM

Kyrie has requested #11 next season with the Mavs (currently worn by THJ). THJ would switch to #10.

Positive sign Kyrie will be back.

Dallas41 · 06-26-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd drive him to Houston.

We didn't make the playoffs with Kyrie and Luka. It's time to clean house.

God I hope Powell signs elsewhere

That's the only way to keep him from. Getting starter minutes in Dallas.

Everyone is raving about Lively and Holmes but I guarantee the 1st time either one of them screw up Powell will eat up their Minutes

After I saw the Miami backup center zeller straight off the streets destroy Powell in a game this year I was totally done with that dude.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 04:39 PM

C. Haynes said we tried to trade for Ayton and the Suns said no to our offer.

Be curious to know when this was, but it's likely a sign we are still going after a starting center.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

C. Haynes said we tried to trade for Ayton and the Suns said no to our offer.

Be curious to know when this was, but it's likely a sign we are still going after a starting center.

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

We've been linked to Ayton multiple times though, so it's not surprising. Tons of smoke with that.

MFFL · 06-26-2023, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

The Utah Jazz are acquiring John Collins from the Atlanta Hawks, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. Yahoo Sports' Jake Fischer also reports the deal is in the works.

Going back to the Hawks will be Rudy Gay and a second-round pick.

I am so happy that Collins isn't coming to the Mavs

Melonhead · 06-26-2023, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

Any idea if this was before or after the draft? Can?t see why they would want to trade for Ayton when they just drafted a C with the #12 pick. I can see them wanting a rental while Lively develops, but trading for Ayton means he is your main guy going forward.

Read online it was for THJ and Richaun Holmes

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Read online it was for THJ and Richaun Holmes

The rumor is that the deal fell through over Javale McGee. Mavs wanted him included...Suns didn't.

EricaLubarsky · 06-26-2023, 08:20 PM

I won?t judge Nico on a deal that didn?t happen

But that?s dumb as shit

tap2390 · 06-26-2023, 08:49 PM

Target Brook Lopez, not DeAndre Ayton.

EricaLubarsky · 06-26-2023, 08:52 PM

Kyrie Will switch to 11 next season if he?s back

Lively will be 2

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-26-2023, 09:22 PM

I feel like we can make a move though based on what assets are being moved around. Looks like teams have finally moved on from that ridiculous Gobert stuff and come more reasonable with asks.

I mean, shit, if THJ, Holmes, and Javale possibly get you Ayton, then there is a trade out there to be made.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-26-2023, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

He knows his assignments, plays good team defense, is a serviceable rebounder, and knows how to defend other centers although often physically overmatched.
Why do you think he was given, and kept, the starting role? Because he was the best option, for all of the above reasons. Why was he deemed much better than Wood, for example, who clearly had better OFFENSIVE capabilities? Because he was better at everything else.

Hard disagree. He sucks on defense. Bad. He absolutely does not play "good team defense" and nor does he defend other centers well when he's physically overmatched- which by the way is pretty much all the time.

Why was he given the starting role? Because the other guys sucked even worse. He at least has the one OFFENSIVE skill. (Why exactly do you feel the need to put that word in all caps btw?) Javale, WCS, and the other guys we've had over the years didn't even have that. As for Wood, something is clearly weird with that dude and I'm not entirely sure what it is. There's a reason the Mavs are letting him walk for nothing, and nobody seems upset about it.

I'll give you that Powell is a bit better defensively than Wood (and I do only mean a bit.) But that's really not saying much of anything. It's kind of like saying he's a better 3 point shooter than Ben Simmons.

Quote:

Wrong...he has several other skills (although that is his one OFFENSIVE skill....people focus WAY too much on that end of the court).

I find this a very bizarre statement to direct at me considering his impact on the OFFENSIVE end of the court is not the problem at all, and his DEFENSIVE liabilities, and the lack of any kind of even remotely passable DEFENSIVE presence in the front court are the reason the Mavs' season turned into a disaster. Seriously, I would wager we had the worst defensive front court in the league last year, especially after the trade. If Powell was an even average defensive player, I'd be all in on keeping him.

EDIT: We were also the worst rebounding team in the league last year. I do not consider 4.1 rpg to be "serviceable" for a starting center. Not even close. If your point guard averages more than twice as many rebounds as your center, there's a problem.

Thespiralgoeson · 06-26-2023, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We've been linked to Ayton multiple times though, so it's not surprising. Tons of smoke with that.

Yeah I've seen tons of articles mention Mavs' interest in Ayton, but I just don't see it happening. A: I doubt we could put together a package for Ayton that multiple teams wouldn't be able to outbid, and B: Phoenix is contending for a title. I seriously doubt they want to help create a potential powerhouse in their own conference. If they end up trading him, they either trade him to the East, or to a team that's nowhere near being competitive.

BPo001 · 06-26-2023, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Yeah I've seen tons of articles mention Mavs' interest in Ayton, but I just don't see it happening. A: I doubt we could put together a package for Ayton that multiple teams wouldn't be able to outbid, and B: Phoenix is contending for a title. I seriously doubt they want to help create a potential powerhouse in their own conference. If they end up trading him, they either trade him to the East, or to a team that's nowhere near being competitive.

I think PHX knows they need to offload Ayton?s contract in an effort to fill out the roster. Obv KD, Beal, and Book aren?t going anywhere. Plus Ayton seems to have checked out mentally. I think I fresh start would be good for him. I don?t think PHX just gives him away for scraps though. I?m kinda surprised to hear that THJ and Holmes might have gotten it done. The guy averaged 18/10 last season, and he?s like 25 years old?

Thespiralgoeson · 06-26-2023, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I think PHX knows they need to offload Ayton?s contract in an effort to fill out the roster. Obv KD, Beal, and Book aren?t going anywhere. Plus Ayton seems to have checked out mentally. I think I fresh start would be good for him. I don?t think PHX just gives him away for scraps though. I?m kinda surprised to hear that THJ and Holmes might have gotten it done. The guy averaged 18/10 last season, and he?s like 25 years old?

I'm extremely skeptical that Phoenix would have even considered that offer. No way are they giving him away without get picks and/or a good young player.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-27-2023, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm extremely skeptical that Phoenix would have even considered that offer. No way are they giving him away without get picks and/or a good young player.

Yeah, rumors about details of trades I also take with a grain of salt, but I will say that I doubt they get any picks outside a 2nd like Atlanta got for the Hawks.

In fact, the Collins trade is going to be comparable because teams don't want to give up picks, and they don't want to take on big salary.

That likely means the Suns just keep Ayton for now, but that's a big risk if he regresses. They have no means to trade picks to get off that contract.

MFFL · 06-27-2023, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm extremely skeptical that Phoenix would have even considered that offer. No way are they giving him away without get picks and/or a good young player.

There had to be more to it. THJ is ok as a player but Holmes is a question mark. They are supposedly trading a starting center for a rotation player and a maybe?

There isn't even much salary cap savings - a little in year 2 and the entire year 3