Dump Fin on the Hawks - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 07-22-2005, 08:25 PM

If Phoenix matches Joe Johnson, what would it take to get the Hawks to take Finley? I'm assuming they would have enough cap space available to absorb him in trade. They really could use a point guard, especially if Lue is going to LA or wherever. I don't enough about this Salim Stoudamire kid to speculate whether they think he can step right in and start. But at any rate, how about Fin and Harris for...well, for just a second round pick if it will work. Or maybe the Hawks throw a little something in there. Maybe a signed Lue. Who knows.

If you thought $51MM was a good price for Fin, surely you will love saving the whole shebang. I know we don't really want to move Harris if we don't have to, but if the Hawks would do this deal it would essentially be selling Harris for $50MM just like we are doing with Fin. Since Fin comes off the cap completely, now we are getting some REAL flexibility. I think that might be worth parting with Harris.

Not to mention, we would net a rather large trade exception that could bring us something back if we so desired.

The way Atlanta has been rejected in free agency of late, I think they would have to think about it. Fin provides them an immediate injection of talent, not to mention veteran leadership for all those kiddies over there. I can see him being valuable to them for a couple years, and then maybe he's a valuable piece as an expiring contract down the road. I should think that if anyone would be willing to overpay a guy for a couple years, Atlanta would.

If the alternative is losing Fin for nothing, I gladly substitute Benga or Podkolzine in place of Harris. Whatever the Hawks want, basically. Within reason, of course. I think some interesting things could be done, if Atlanta finds that the SG market is drying up on them and no one wants their money.

echo · 07-22-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
If Phoenix matches Joe Johnson, what would it take to get the Hawks to take Finley? I'm assuming they would have enough cap space available to absorb him in trade. They really could use a point guard, especially if Lue is going to LA or wherever. I don't enough about this Salim Stoudamire kid to speculate whether they think he can step right in and start. But at any rate, how about Fin and Harris for...well, for just a second round pick if it will work. Or maybe the Hawks throw a little something in there. Maybe a signed Lue. Who knows.

If you thought $51MM was a good price for Fin, surely you will love saving the whole shebang. I know we don't really want to move Harris if we don't have to, but if the Hawks would do this deal it would essentially be selling Harris for $50MM just like we are doing with Fin. Since Fin comes off the cap completely, now we are getting some REAL flexibility. I think that might be worth parting with Harris.

Not to mention, we would net a rather large trade exception that could bring us something back if we so desired.

The way Atlanta has been rejected in free agency of late, I think they would have to think about it. Fin provides them an immediate injection of talent, not to mention veteran leadership for all those kiddies over there. I can see him being valuable to them for a couple years, and then maybe he's a valuable piece as an expiring contract down the road. I should think that if anyone would be willing to overpay a guy for a couple years, Atlanta would.

If the alternative is losing Fin for nothing, I gladly substitute Benga or Podkolzine in place of Harris. Whatever the Hawks want, basically. Within reason, of course. I think some interesting things could be done, if Atlanta finds that the SG market is drying up on them and no one wants their money.

Okay in another thread your opposed to letting Finley walk for nothing. So instead of letting Finley walk for nothing we coax Atlanta into taking Finley by throwing in Harris for a 2nd round pick? How is this better than letting Finley walk? And why would a young team like Atlanta want Finley when they've unloaded every vet they've had the last two years?

bgantz · 07-22-2005, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: echo

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
If Phoenix matches Joe Johnson, what would it take to get the Hawks to take Finley? I'm assuming they would have enough cap space available to absorb him in trade. They really could use a point guard, especially if Lue is going to LA or wherever. I don't enough about this Salim Stoudamire kid to speculate whether they think he can step right in and start. But at any rate, how about Fin and Harris for...well, for just a second round pick if it will work. Or maybe the Hawks throw a little something in there. Maybe a signed Lue. Who knows.

If you thought $51MM was a good price for Fin, surely you will love saving the whole shebang. I know we don't really want to move Harris if we don't have to, but if the Hawks would do this deal it would essentially be selling Harris for $50MM just like we are doing with Fin. Since Fin comes off the cap completely, now we are getting some REAL flexibility. I think that might be worth parting with Harris.

Not to mention, we would net a rather large trade exception that could bring us something back if we so desired.

The way Atlanta has been rejected in free agency of late, I think they would have to think about it. Fin provides them an immediate injection of talent, not to mention veteran leadership for all those kiddies over there. I can see him being valuable to them for a couple years, and then maybe he's a valuable piece as an expiring contract down the road. I should think that if anyone would be willing to overpay a guy for a couple years, Atlanta would.

If the alternative is losing Fin for nothing, I gladly substitute Benga or Podkolzine in place of Harris. Whatever the Hawks want, basically. Within reason, of course. I think some interesting things could be done, if Atlanta finds that the SG market is drying up on them and no one wants their money.

Okay in another thread your opposed to letting Finley walk for nothing. So instead of letting Finley walk for nothing we coax Atlanta into taking Finley by throwing in Harris for a 2nd round pick? How is this better than letting Finley walk? And why would a young team like Atlanta want Finley when they've unloaded every vet they've had the last two years?

ok....while no team is actually dumb enough to just "take" finley for you, the retarded part is basically just trading harris for a second round pick? this move would just kill our team. screw finances

chumdawg · 07-22-2005, 09:00 PM

If Atlanta would take this deal, and we wouldn't, we would be spending $50MM PLUS the cap space of Fin's contract for...Devin Harris. If Fin is not worth the money, then Harris is not worth the money and the cap space.

I am opposed to letting Finley walk if it nets us nothing but cash. I'm okay with seeing him go if it nets us some TRUE flexibility to make some moves in the future.

I thought the deal made sense for both sides. If the Hawks can't find a FA to take their money, that is. I don't care what the Hawks did the last couple years. Teams change directions all the time. And it wouldn't be just "taking Fin." It would be taking Fin in order to get Harris, who might be a really nice piece for them. Or maybe a Benga is even nicer. Who knows.

EricaLubarsky · 07-22-2005, 09:04 PM

CD has it right. Dumping Finley is about saving money. We'd not only save luxury tax, but we would also reduce our total payroll. I wouldnt trade Harris for a 2nd rounder, but I think giving Finley to someone that needs him, and is out East is the right idea.

dirno2000 · 07-22-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

If Atlanta would take this deal, and we wouldn't, we would be spending $50MM PLUS the cap space of Fin's contract for...Devin Harris. If Fin is not worth the money, then Harris is not worth the money and the cap space.

The thing is, Dirk isn’t going to lead us to a title by himself, he’s going to need some help. So while Devin seems vastly overpaid when you phrase it the way you did, he and Josh represent the only players on our current roster that have a chance of someday playing Robin to Dirk’s Batman. Unless we trade for a readymade star (ie. Pierce) we have to hold on to Harris until we see what we have.

echo · 07-22-2005, 09:15 PM

Okay chumdawg I see your point, but Harris has too much value. Now if we could send Finley, PPod (Atl needs a center and could give him minutes) for say Delk I do it. But not Harris. Even if you don't think he has a future here, he has great trade value.

dirno2000 · 07-22-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
CD has it right. Dumping Finley is about saving money. We'd not only save luxury tax, but we would also reduce our total payroll. I wouldnt trade Harris for a 2nd rounder, but I think giving Finley to someone that needs him, and is out East is the right idea.

that makes sense in theory but why would a bad team soak up it's cap room by acquiring Fin? We’d have to sweeten the deal with Devin or even Josh…and we’d still likely be over the cap next year.

chumdawg · 07-22-2005, 09:26 PM

I'd like to keep Harris, too. But hey, I'd also like to keep Finley. I'm just thinking that if you're going to do something, do it the whole way. The thing is, if Atlanta would take Finley for nothing in return, that would be VERY valuable to us. We save the whole Fin contract, not to mention that we could then "amnestize" a TAW or Bradley or whoever. We would save a LOT of money, and move much closer to some kind of salary cap sanity, if that's ever going to be possible here. Plus we get a big trade exception, which possibly could have some value at the trade deadline or next offseason. Now we are really talking flexibility. (Plus, Finley goes East, and definitely not to a contender!)

That would be a very, very good position for us to be in. Much better than simply waiving Fin. So we have to pay something for that value. If we could do it without Harris, great. But the Hawks are going to want something. I'm afraid I'd have to pay the price of Harris, if--and this is the real key--if I were already committed to waiving Fin.

I don't think they have all that much space available, though. We would have to take something back, I'm sure. I really don't know much about Lue, but that's an idea. Still, even taking something back (as long as it's not a God-awful contract, which I don't think they even have), it's a good deal for us.

echo · 07-22-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
CD has it right. Dumping Finley is about saving money. We'd not only save luxury tax, but we would also reduce our total payroll. I wouldnt trade Harris for a 2nd rounder, but I think giving Finley to someone that needs him, and is out East is the right idea.

that makes sense in theory but why would a bad team soak up it's cap room by acquiring Fin? We’d have to sweeten the deal with Devin or even Josh…and we’d still likely be over the cap next year.

I don't think Atlanta would consider Fin unless you include Harris or Howard which the Mavs simply wouldn't, or shouldn't do. Besides Atlanta has too many young SG/SF types already.

dirno2000 · 07-22-2005, 09:50 PM

Chum the Hornets have a ton of cap room...they just drafted Chris Paul so they probably wouldn't be interested in Devin, but they could used a good young small forward...would you do that deal as well?

kg_veteran · 07-22-2005, 10:13 PM

chum - This idea is nuts.

EricaLubarsky · 07-22-2005, 10:41 PM

less nuts than buying Fin out, paying his entire salary times 1, and letting him play for a western competitor?

Speedy · 07-22-2005, 10:43 PM

Chum, that is some serious outside the box thinking. That would be a major PR hit to the organization on the heels of the Nash fiasco. However, 100 mil in savings is 100 mil in savings. Man, I don't know. If they used the savings to improve the team to Avery's satisfaction I might do it.

You made me realize something else. If Fin is traded, you would think it would be to a team right around the cap after they have their roster in place. A team in need of veteran leadership may be interested in Mike at 50 mil, but only if that team is exempt from a dollar for dollar luxury tax on his contract for the next 3 years.

MavsFanFinley · 07-22-2005, 11:39 PM

I can see why the Mavs would push for it, but whether or not they steal Joe Johnson away, I don't see why Atlanta wastes the cap space they do have. Even if they don't lure some free agents there, they should find some younger guys to build around.

Speedy · 07-22-2005, 11:51 PM

I read an article about Atlanta using Joe Johnson as their point if they got him. I wonder if they would do a Finley/Daniels for Harrington. I'm not ready to give up on Devin.

Stressboy · 07-23-2005, 01:08 AM

Very interesting trade:

I would do Finley/Harris for Harrington/Delk/pick(Top 10 protected)

That way they only pay 42mil of Fins money and you know they could move him in his last year so it is not really that much. Harrington is unwanted with Williams on board. If they asked for Benga I would demand next years pick unprotected. If they asked for PPod ask for top 10 protected.

There is a three way that would probably be possible with Danials to orlando with Jameer Nelson or Cato going to the Hawks instead of Danials. (I prefer to get rid of Harris instead of Danials at this point only because I think Danials can play the point and is a true matchup nightmare. But I would trust the mavs to move the right one.)

Lebanese_Fan · 07-23-2005, 02:58 AM

Atlanta traded RASHEED wallace , ratliff and shareef to free up cap space. Now you want them to take fins contract and his useless play?!?!!? And then you want to give up devin?!?!! Trading him makes sense, but trading devin is ridiculous.

We have 2 choices we either just wave him, or we trade him for smaller contracts.

MavsFanFinley · 07-23-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Very interesting trade:

I would do Finley/Harris for Harrington/Delk/pick(Top 10 protected)

That way they only pay 42mil of Fins money and you know they could move him in his last year so it is not really that much. Harrington is unwanted with Williams on board. If they asked for Benga I would demand next years pick unprotected. If they asked for PPod ask for top 10 protected.

There is a three way that would probably be possible with Danials to orlando with Jameer Nelson or Cato going to the Hawks instead of Danials. (I prefer to get rid of Harris instead of Danials at this point only because I think Danials can play the point and is a true matchup nightmare. But I would trust the mavs to move the right one.)

Let me get this straight. First, Atlanta would be doing the Mavs a favor by taking Fin's contract off there hands. Yet, you want them to give up talent like Harrington and a 1st round pick if they demanded MBenga?

The Miles · 07-23-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

less nuts than buying Fin out, paying his entire salary times 1, and letting him play for a western competitor?

Yes, less nuts. Just let him walk, you save $50 million instead of $100 and you keep your blue chipper.

I like the idea, and if the Hawks would do it for Pavel I would be all over it, but it isn't worth trading away one of two guys on this roster with the talent to join Dirk as All Stars.

chumdawg · 07-25-2005, 11:38 PM

Allow me to revisit this for a moment. Not necessarily from the Mavs' perspective, but to speculate about the Hawks' perspective.

If Johnson stays in Phoenix--which, as I mentioned in another thread, a lower cap for this year would make more likely, as max contracts are a function of the cap--and Dalembert stays in Philly, and Curry isn't covered by insurance, and Bonzi and Redd and Simmons and Hughes are off the market.........where do the Hawks spend their free money???

Stressboy · 07-26-2005, 10:12 AM

Mavsfanfinley,

Yes if someone wants Benga right now it costs them an unprotected 1st rounder. He has not become this yet, but he has the ability to be a bigger version of Ben Wallace and you don't give up that potential. Also, I did not mean for the 1st rounder to be included unless they asked for one of our bigs.

As for Harrington, he is not wanted or needed there(i.e. Williams). They are going to package him in some form or fashion and if it helped them secure their starting PG, then yes I think they would gladly give him up.

As for why Atlanta would do this it goes to what chum is refering to. If they don't sign a big free agent for big money, they are going to have a fun time just getting to the minimum payroll which I'm assuming will be higher than in years past so let's say it is 37mil. They are currently sitting on about 20mil in salaries. Now you can sign a ton of mid-level reject players or you could take on 1 bad contract to get you there, play all the youth and when you have to start giving them extensions, his contract goes off the books, or you do some trades to get more picks and so forth as you move him to a contender. They could do this by taking Penny Hardaway for instance, but they could not get their starting PG to go with all this good young talent, and with us they could. If they wanted to get their center of the future in Benga, then they would have to give up next years pick. It is that simple. For a team like atlanta to all of the sudden fill all thier starting spots with players 24 and younger for the price of 1 pick and Fins Salary that they have to spend anyways makes a lot of sense but only if JJ is back in Phoenix.

Chicago did the exact same thing by taking on Antonio Davis's contract while their young guys matured. They are the model that Atlanta wants to use for the most part but they hoped to use JJ's big contract instead of a vet like Fins. Chicago might still do the trade with us for Davis/Pike to get Fin based on how good their team was last year. Also the money is not that bad for Chicago to do it. They are 3 years from extending the next waive of young guys and they are going to have to spend a lot of money to get to the minimum, alsoif they were willing to give Fin full MLE type money for 3 years then that is equal to one of Fins years right there. Davis money plus the 17mil they would pay him if we let him walk gets you 2 years of money they would have paid anyways. Then he is in his last year and as we have seen anything can happen then.

These scenarios are out there, and they are not that far feteched. You just have to wait and see where people are. For instance you see Cleveland all of the sudden up against it with just 3.5 of cap space left. That means to get what they want they might have to do a trade and we have everything they want (especially a starting PG) but to trade with us they would have to give up a lot.

Anyways, I think the mav's are waiting for one of these things to come to fruition. Because of so many variables, I don't see them just waiving Fin, but they might be that stupid. Donnie needs to earn that big money he is getting paid.

Stressboy

LRB · 07-26-2005, 01:05 PM

Chum,

I don't like this trade at all. But then again I hate giving Fin away for nothing. If the choice is give Fin away for nothing or do this trade, then I'll probably take the trade. However, I'd try and coax a 1st rounder out of Atlanta instead of the 2nd rounder. And if they'd take Marquis to play PG instead of Devin, I'd do the trade without even the 2nd rounder just $1 in return.

chumdawg · 07-26-2005, 01:53 PM

Good points, Stressboy and LRB. Stress, you make a very good case that the idea of finding a trading partner for Fin out East is not nearly as far-fetched as it might sound. I suspect that in the end we will something along the lines that you mentioned, for the reasons that you mentioned. One thing is for sure: it's bound to be a very interesting trade, if it happens.

sandeepgm · 07-26-2005, 06:56 PM

How about this trade for Fin? Its not very glamorous but its quite possible.
Finley for the contract of todd mccollough, aaron mckie and kyle korver.
We get back a SF who can play behind JHo and spread the floor by shooting 3's well.

Sixers are going to have a huge payroll in the coming years. Hoopshype shows 75 million
in 2006-2007 and 55 million in 2007-2008. These are amounts without factoring in dalemberts, greens
and korvers contract. They could try to win now and lose only korver. Allen and webber(if ever) can be a factor
only for 2-3 years so i think they might want a thrid wheel to this duo.

As it is they got Deng who is a stud at the 3. So what do you all think about this?