Finley, Jamison to Portland? Say it aint so! - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 11-08-2003, 11:57 PM

The Mavs would be better defensively and would have a little more attitude..
but, it's possible that it could be 'too much' attitude.

I can see reasons to like and dislike this rumored trade.

Murphy3 · 11-08-2003, 11:58 PM

Unfortunately, Cuban and Nellie have been so deceptive in the past that it's difficult to believe anything that comes out of either of their mouths..

LRB · 11-09-2003, 12:06 AM

I seriously wonder how Nellie would deal with those two personalities. I could also see either Bonzi or Rasheed pulling a Latrell on Nellie on some of the quirky moves he makes.

FilthyFinMavs · 11-09-2003, 12:09 AM

Can someone tell me why? Why do we do this trade? We still don't get a big man but we trade Fin and Jamison just for the hell of it? There are just some trades you don't do.

Murphy3 · 11-09-2003, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Can someone tell me why? Why do we do this trade? We still don't get a big man but we trade Fin and Jamison just for the hell of it? There are just some trades you don't do.

more athletic..better defensively..more attitude.

but, obviously, there's several reasons to balk at this trade as well

Just211 · 11-09-2003, 12:22 AM

i can see getting one or the other, but i'd be weary of getting both. One bad attitude is easy to deal with, but TWO. that's a huge risk.
BUT the Mavs would win the talent side of the trade by a landslide.
Its obvious why they'd want sheed, but Wells would be a huge additon. He provides something we all agree the MAvs need, a penetrating scorer..

And the Main negative is losing FIN. A HUGE fan fav, and great leader, for 2 guys who don't seem to care. I really don't care if they smoke a pound of weed on the off days, but sometimes they look like they could care less on the court. that bothers me. (but sometimes i think Dirk looks like he could care less, too, so hopefully I'm wrong, and they're just SO good they make it look boring)

MavsFanFinley · 11-09-2003, 12:22 AM

A couple reasons I see the Mavs making the deal.

1) They unload two max contracts in Finley and Jamison.

2) They rent Wallace for the year. They may try to resign him if he takes a pay cut. Plus, he'll display more toughness than Jamison. With him playing center, it allows Dirk to play the 4 where he is at his best. He has a post-up game, but can nail the 3. He screams Nellie player.

3) Not sure where Wells fits in. He's cheaper than Fin and his contract is 2 years shorter. He'll display a toughness Finley doesn't. Not the good kind either. He can post-up, drives to the hoop, but I can't remember his 3-point shot. Not sure why he'd be given plays that Fin wouldn't.

Nash13 · 11-09-2003, 12:36 AM

I think this is a good trade. If this trade were to happen, people would eventually see why this was a good trade.

It is creeping me out when i was thinking earlier today if we were to trade Finley, would we get equal value. This is the best value that we probably would've gotten for Finley.

Also this will put another player on this team that is taller than 6'8. And there's a good chance that Dirk will be a full time center since Wallace will be guarding the Garnetts and the Webbers and the Duncans.

What it comes down to is would you rather have a good PF/C rotation, or a better SF/SG rotation?

Nash13 · 11-09-2003, 12:39 AM

MFF, i don't know about Wells' 3pt shooting, but i know he didn't do too bad for himself against the Mavs last year.

Murphy3 · 11-09-2003, 12:43 AM

fin was much better three point shooter last year...

career,
fin's a 35.6%
Wells is a 34.6%

Max Power · 11-09-2003, 12:46 AM

If this trade happens then I'm happy for Finley and Jamison but unhappy for the Dallas Mavericks.

SaltwaterChaffy · 11-09-2003, 12:49 AM

Chiwas said earlier that he heard it had been reported on fox 4. has anybody actually heard it, first-hand, reported anywhere, other than the NBA TV broadcast? As i recall, FWST reported the Jamison trade first. I haven't seen or heard anything about this other than on this board.

Fidel · 11-09-2003, 12:53 AM

Talent and money wise this deal makes alot of sense. Like MFF said with Wallace playing center Dirk could play the majority of time at PF where he fits much better. Bonzi is a little inconsistent but he brings toughness to the backcourt and he can penetrate and finish. Wallace is an enigma. If he could somehow shake that off (stop smoking so much weed would probably do the trick) he could be a top 10 player in the league. Money wise we´d get rid of Fin´s contract (which is clearly too high) and another max contract with Jamison.

But and that´s a big BUT, Sheed and Bonzi are jerks. They don´t really care about the game, and even if they bring some of that tough attitude they also bring alot of bad attitude. I don´t know how Nash and Dirk would take it if they had to play with Walker, Wallace, Wells.

And me I´m really not sure if I could root for a team featuring these kind of players. Walker alone makes it hard enough, now they want to add Sheed and Bonzi? How about waiting until dec. 21st and ship out Walker instead? That would be much more to my liking.

u2sarajevo · 11-09-2003, 12:56 AM

I was listening to the 103.3 radio broadcast after the game and they denied this rumor.

I know that is not definitive, but hopefully they know the truth because I would be PO'ed if this did occur.

FreshJive · 11-09-2003, 12:58 AM

Someone on another message board says that a per a Cuban email the deal is dead because Portaland has decided they are not willing to take on Fin and Jamison's contracts.

Just211 · 11-09-2003, 12:58 AM

what sucks is how often you hear Mavs fans say they don't want to get a too many stars , and become like Portland,
well, if this went down, Dallas <u>would</u> be PORTLAND

ames7 · 11-09-2003, 01:02 AM

I was watching the SA broadcast here in Austin & they reported the same info, same denial from Cuban. I haven't seen a thing in print & I don't think Cuban would deny it like that on TV if it was going to happen.

If it were to happen, I wouldn't quite know what to think. It sort of makes sense, w/Wallace. I think Finley would probably do a lot better on other teams than he does here. I don't think I'd like losing Jamison in this deal.

Fidel · 11-09-2003, 01:06 AM

On another note if portland doesn´t do that deal because of contract issues they are nuts. Talk about a complete makover. They´d get rid of two of the biggest troublemakers on the team and they´d replace them with two guys who are as classy as they come. They won´t get a better deal for Sheed and Bonzi and that move alone should raise their attendance again.

LRB · 11-09-2003, 01:11 AM

Mavs say no trade on table

Wallace-Wells reports

11:59 PM CST on Saturday, November 8, 2003

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

SAN ANTONIO – The Mavericks vigorously denied that they were working on any trade with the Portland Trail Blazers after reports circulated in Portland that a deal had been consummated.

Just moments after the Mavericks had beaten San Antonio on Saturday, owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson scoffed at the trade, which reportedly would have sent Antawn Jamison and Michael Finley to Portland for Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells.

"It's bull," Cuban said. "There's absolutely no reason to make a change. We want this team to stay together and play together. We got a great, great, great group of guys."

Told that reports in Portland said that the deal was waiting only for approval by Cuban and Blazers owner Paul Allen, Cuban said: "It's not going to happen. The only call I'm making is to the NBA office about the referees in this game."

Blazers executives have been growing tired of their players' reputation as a team full of ne'er-do-wells and are hoping to revamp their image. Finley and Jamison are two of the most respected players in the league in that regard.

But both have huge contracts that stretch well into the future and would put as much as a $124 million drain on the Blazers' salary cap over the next four seasons.

When Nelson was asked about the deal he simply laughed.

"And you can quote me on that laugh," he said.

The Mavericks' reputation as wheelers and dealers certainly made the trade believable in spite of the thuggish reputation of Wallace, who holds the record for most technical fouls in a season and who has feuded often with teammates and management.

Wells was fined $10,000 last week for making an obscene gesture at fans during a game.

"It's like a lot of things said by the media – made up," Cuban said.

MavsFanFinley · 11-09-2003, 01:13 AM

Portland would be getting rid of 2 of the 4 headcases on that team. They'd only have to worry about Stoudamire and Patterson.

ReDIRKulous · 11-09-2003, 01:13 AM

If Portland was the one to back out of this deal they are complete morons.

Tony tha Mavs fan · 11-09-2003, 01:15 AM

well, theres the answer to the trade rumors LOL

SaltwaterChaffy · 11-09-2003, 01:16 AM

all I can say is thank goodness. I really think that talent wise, it is an upgrade. However, just thinking about this trade actually happening has made me realize that I really do not want to lose Fin unless it is for a monster deal. Though he isn't playing well so far this season, he is and always will be a huge member of the Dallas Mavericks. I also agree with the above sentiment that I don't think Nash and Dirk would fit in well with the personalities of Walker, Sheed, and Wells. I get the feeling that those 3 would begin to form the personality of this team, as opposed to our current Big 3.

I'm going to say now that even if this does make us a better team, I am firmly against this trade. Unless Fin and some combination can get us a big man, just say no to trading Fin.

ReDIRKulous · 11-09-2003, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
Mavs say no trade on table

Wallace-Wells reports

11:59 PM CST on Saturday, November 8, 2003

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

SAN ANTONIO – The Mavericks vigorously denied that they were working on any trade with the Portland Trail Blazers after reports circulated in Portland that a deal had been consummated.

Just moments after the Mavericks had beaten San Antonio on Saturday, owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson scoffed at the trade, which reportedly would have sent Antawn Jamison and Michael Finley to Portland for Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells.

"It's bull," Cuban said. "There's absolutely no reason to make a change. We want this team to stay together and play together. We got a great, great, great group of guys."

Told that reports in Portland said that the deal was waiting only for approval by Cuban and Blazers owner Paul Allen, Cuban said: "It's not going to happen. The only call I'm making is to the NBA office about the referees in this game."

Blazers executives have been growing tired of their players' reputation as a team full of ne'er-do-wells and are hoping to revamp their image. Finley and Jamison are two of the most respected players in the league in that regard.

But both have huge contracts that stretch well into the future and would put as much as a $124 million drain on the Blazers' salary cap over the next four seasons.

When Nelson was asked about the deal he simply laughed.

"And you can quote me on that laugh," he said.

The Mavericks' reputation as wheelers and dealers certainly made the trade believable in spite of the thuggish reputation of Wallace, who holds the record for most technical fouls in a season and who has feuded often with teammates and management.

Wells was fined $10,000 last week for making an obscene gesture at fans during a game.

"It's like a lot of things said by the media – made up," Cuban said.

Well... this does it for me. I think this was BS. Though I wonder what the hell George Karl was talking about. He was probably just babbling. He needs to be more careful though. lol

I bet the deal never involved Finley... that is probably why Nellie was laughing. I bet Portland wanted Finley and I bet the Mavs are always throwing ideas out there to Portland... but this is probably a fantasy Portland GM scenario. I bet everyone low balls Portland constantly because they know how desperate they are.

MavsFanFinley · 11-09-2003, 01:22 AM

I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.

ReDIRKulous · 11-09-2003, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.

I don't think this deal is for real. If they were really, seriously working on a deal I think they just wouldn't say anything. I doubt they would deny it this much.

Also... there is one thing that makes this not sound like Nellie deal... Portland isn't getting fleeced. The deal is too even. lol It must be Portland's idea.

EricaLubarsky · 11-09-2003, 01:37 AM

okay here is why we shouldnt do the trade
1) What we give up
2) the sh$tty attitude of the Jailblazers
3)our chemistry- we are already having problems

What we would gain

1) Rasheed Wallace- a 29 year old 6'10" forward/center who drifts like LaF, but plays better D, shoots the three better, makes his own shots better, defends big men, brings attitude, and did I say play D?
2) Bonzi Wells- a 27 year old 6'5" guard/forward who plays good D, who is a phenomenal scorer and an above average passer. He also shoots the three fairly well (uh oh don't listen to me Nellie) and does well in the clutch. Most notably he can tear apart the defense of an opposing team with his cuts.

However, the sheer talent of these two does nothing if they bring their crap to Dallas. They already waste a lot of their talent in Portland. Also Nellie is a great coach in many areas but he has never done well with attitudes and big men. Let me say that again, "he has never done well with attitudes and big men"

Fidel · 11-09-2003, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
I'll wait until the deadlines pass before I believe Cuban or Nelson.

Ditto.

u2sarajevo · 11-09-2003, 01:41 AM

You know Erica.... about the chemistry thing. I think if we are dead set on making a trade, two things should define that trade:

1. We do it now, as we work on chemistry issues. If we are going to go through these pains, I don't want a repeat in February.
2. It be for a big man... or at least someone that can replace Dirk's minutes at Center.

Max Power · 11-09-2003, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Also Nellie is a great coach in many areas but he has never done well with attitudes and big men. Let me say that again, "he has never done well with attitudes and big men"

Sprewell never gave Nellie any trouble. The only player I can think of that was impossible for Nellie to control was Webber and he went through several coaches and a couple of trades before he clicked.

EricaLubarsky · 11-09-2003, 01:52 AM

well if it is a big man we need and we are giving up on a pure center- Wallace is a beast. He plays the same floaty-game that Lafrentz did but he is better in absolutely every category....

FilthyFinMavs · 11-09-2003, 02:13 AM

If you are the Mavs why do you trade with another potential playoff contender? The last I heard the Blazers need attitude adjustments. We take on 50% of that problem and bring it to Dallas. That just makes no sense. Talent wise its there. THe Mavs get the better talent. But thus far that has always been the case and so far this season we haven't got our team playing team ball yet. Why do we confuse a team already confused as it is? If the trade were to happen i'd be happy for Fin and Jamison. If the Mavs did the deal I believe last year was our last time enjoying the playoffs and getting out of the 1st round.

BTW, when did Rasheed Wallace learn to play defense?

EricaLubarsky · 11-09-2003, 02:20 AM

last time I checked Sheed was better than LaF, who he would be replacing. He's always had the skill, he's just rarely had the resolve.

agreeing with you though, we were probably the worst team last year talent-wise (after LAL, SAC, SAN, POR) and we won based on our sharp play. Thats what is so strange about all these trades- we made it to the WCF with very little overall talent and miniscule depth.

We are undeniably now the deepest team in the league and we have some of the top players (Jamison, Nash, Walker, Nowitzki) but should we have messed with a team that was a 60-22 WCF team last year? Theres just a lot of risk to splitting up that team and adding new threats to our chemistry (like Fort, Walker and now Sheed and Wells).

Of course this is all rediculous as the trade isnt happening....

Dirkenstien · 11-09-2003, 03:04 AM

perhaps the laugh and denial by dallas management is at the prospect of shipping finley out of here. I dont think cuban will ship out any of our big three ... possibly walker and jamison ..i could see somethin like that. There obviously must be some type of conversation going on between the two teams though, atleast IMO. ....and someone leaked out a little too much info.

Cuban however, is a business man and can put on a mighty deceiving poker face ...this issue may have already been prepared for by cuban and Nellie ...seeing that they both were very determined to make it clear that this trade proposal is out of the question.

rtg · 11-09-2003, 05:24 AM

This trade cant be true.
1. Portland is in rebuilding mode, why take on 2 big contracts?
2. Dallas needs to have the same group of players for more than 10 days at a time right?
3. Some times talent doesn't make up for tradeing a fan favorit.
4. Do the Blazers really want to play aginst Wallace 4 times per year?
5. Do the Mav's really want to play agains Finley 4 times per year?
6. Some fans may like this trade at first but just wait will Bonzi flips you off.

seelenjaeger · 11-09-2003, 09:46 AM

Well - I won´t comment on the trade itself, but this would be definately a move which tells a story: this IS Dirks team. And he´s gonna get one buddy to lead the team, and the talent to win it. So he better wins it.

Ummmmm Ok · 11-09-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
How funny. I just posted this trade in the new trade/draft forum earlier today.

Well its now officially proven: The media/Mav Players read this board. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] They read what MFF wrote and "made" a story out of nothing. And to prove it, anybody notice that Finley had a fire under him going into the SA game. I think it had to do with him proving US wrong because WE said he should be traded.

So seeing this: DIRK YOU NEED TO TAKE MORE DAMN SHOTS. YOU ARE THE NUMBER 1 OPTION. LET THE TEAM EVOLVE AROUND YOU, YOU DON'T NEED TO "FIT" INTO THEIR SCHEME, THEY NEED TO FIT INTO YOURS. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

sike · 11-09-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
How funny. I just posted this trade in the new trade/draft forum earlier today.

Well its now officially proven: The media/Mav Players read this board. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] They read what MFF wrote and "made" a story out of nothing. And to prove it, anybody notice that Finley had a fire under him going into the SA game. I think it had to do with him proving US wrong because WE said he should be traded.

So seeing this: DIRK YOU NEED TO TAKE MORE DAMN SHOTS. YOU ARE THE NUMBER 1 OPTION. LET THE TEAM EVOLVE AROUND YOU, YOU DON'T NEED TO "FIT" INTO THEIR SCHEME, THEY NEED TO FIT INTO YOURS. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

IN TOTAL AGREEMENT: with umm..

and as far as this trade is concerned, would PORT do the deal if the Mavs offered Walker instead of Jamsion? I see Walker as taking too many shots from Dirk....and Jamison i see as needing more touches......both could be accomplished with the removal of Walker!

it all may be dead point now, but it seems like trades like this that are romored now may have new life when teams are desperately looking for that extra piece at the deadline....so wait and see...the Mavs have pieces to trade..and those pieces will be of maximum value as teams try to make playoff pushes....

LRB · 11-09-2003, 12:30 PM

I've got a question for everyone on this topic. If this trade were real, home much longer do you think it would set the Mavs back in jelling for this season?

Personally, I think that we would be at least 30 games into the season before we would have a decent chances of jelling.

MavsFanFinley · 11-09-2003, 12:52 PM

LRB, it's hard enough to figure out how long it will take for the current team to get it together. I can't imagine the setback it would cause for the Mavs if the trade were true.

Not just on the court, but off as well.

I'm more worried about how it might effect Finley and Jamison's mindset? Finley has been rumored in so many trades he probably won't believe it until it's official. Jamison was just traded, then he's coming off the bench, and already rumored in another trade.

That has to mess with anybody some.