So, what's the plan? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 07-06-2012, 11:36 AM

What type of impact does it have on the Mavs going forward?.. say, at the trading deadline or next off season?

I'll be honest, at one point in my life I knew the old CBA. I haven't spent much time looking at the new CBA... too much going on with work and life.

grndmstr_c · 07-06-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

What type of impact does it have on the Mavs going forward?.. say, at the trading deadline or next off season?

I'll be honest, at one point in my life I knew the old CBA. I haven't spent much time looking at the new CBA... too much going on with work and life.

Brand? It'd cost them their Odom TE, and Brand couldn't be traded during the season, so they'd lose a short-term trade asset there. But, per thig, Mavs would get Bird Rights on Elton, so he'd potentially be a trade asset next summer (whereas the Odom TE would have expired before the start of the next free agency period). Factoring in Bird Rights, I'm more confident it'd be worthwhile to sacrifice the TE.

jleefilled · 07-06-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Avalon

I'll take Lou Williams, OJ Mayo and claim Elton brand. Hell if you can even get Camby as well do it.

Not exactly a home run off season but that's not too shabby.

I'd be happy to see Mayo on the Mavs. I think he might be able to fill in the number 2 scorer role for the Mavs sufficiently.

oilfieldtrash · 07-06-2012, 11:51 AM

I'm not liking this Brand deal. We need to let this one pass.

Murphy3 · 07-06-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Brand? It'd cost them their Odom TE, and Brand couldn't be traded during the season, so they'd lose a short-term trade asset there. But, per thig, Mavs would get Bird Rights on Elton, so he'd potentially be a trade asset next summer (whereas the Odom TE would have expired before the start of the next free agency period). Factoring in Bird Rights, I'm more confident it'd be worthwhile to sacrifice the TE.

Interesting. I may need to just get a spreadsheet to keep up with the Mavs possible assets going forward.

grndmstr_c · 07-06-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

I'm not liking this Brand deal. We need to let this one pass.

That seals it for me. I'm all in on Elton.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

..turn Marion into some more young assets at the trade deadline by sending him to a team that's trying to figure out how they're going to defend LeBron.

Exactly. Marion apparently could have serious value to a mid tier Eastern team for just that reason.

NO one stops BronBron...but on the short list of guys who seem to slow him down a bit, Marion is at or near the very top of that list.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:18 PM

By the by, what is the short answer for why OJ Mayo went from an 18ppg guy shooting a solid percentage to a 26min guy shooting a terrible percentage and averaging 12ppg??

Underdog · 07-06-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

By the by, what is the short answer for why OJ Mayo went from an 18ppg guy shooting a solid percentage to a 26min guy shooting a terrible percentage and averaging 12ppg??

He was moved to the bench to supply a little bit of punch in the second unit (like JET), but he seriously regressed in that role... It might do his career some good to get back into a starting lineup.

oilfieldtrash · 07-06-2012, 12:31 PM

At what point do we say fack it and try to get some young talent at bargain rates? If all these teams are handcuffed by the CBA why can't we get some steals?

mac222b · 07-06-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

By the by, what is the short answer for why OJ Mayo went from an 18ppg guy shooting a solid percentage to a 26min guy shooting a terrible percentage and averaging 12ppg??

They decided to bring Mayo off the bench(when they acquired Tony Allen?).
Could be he had a hard time adjusting to it and also lost his rhythm due to
"less reps".

He's still a good player and a good on ball defender. Wouldn't mind having him here for the right price.

spreedom · 07-06-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

At what point do we say fack it and try to get some young talent at bargain rates? If all these teams are handcuffed by the CBA why can't we get some steals?

Because those steals always come with taxes (i.e. packaged with bad contracts) and we don't want to take on that kind of money.

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

At what point do we say fack it and try to get some young talent at bargain rates? If all these teams are handcuffed by the CBA why can't we get some steals?

I'm sure that will happen. You have to wait for the prices to come down on those players. No one can even sign contracts yet.

However, it is worth pointing out that there aren't a ton of "Second Draft" candidates this season. And the Mavs have Roddy, Jones (I guess) and three draft picks already. But I bet they still find one or two.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He was moved to the bench to supply a little bit of punch in the second unit (like JET), but he seriously regressed in that role... It might do his career some good to get back into a starting lineup.

From the little I've seen of the guy, he can be a legitimate scorer when his head is right.

He is the kind of young talent I'd be keen on unless the Mavs FO knows things about him personally. (*Like is he a bad guy, selfish player, etc.)

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

From the little I've seen of the guy, he can be a legitimate scorer when his head is right.

He is the kind of young talent I'd be keen on unless the Mavs FO knows things about him personally. (*Like is he a bad guy, selfish player, etc.)

The issue with him is the cost. He's looking for above MLE money right now.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:38 PM

On Mayo:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

They decided to bring Mayo off the bench(when they acquired Tony Allen?). He's still a good player and a good on ball defender. Wouldn't mind having him here for the right price.

I'd give him "solid to good" money (not stupid money, mind you.). He is only 25 and is perhaps the type of young guy The Mavs are looking for. Someone with serious upside that has something to prove to this league.

And as with almost everyone else in the hoops universe, playing alongside Dirk could only help open up shots for him.

mac222b · 07-06-2012, 12:39 PM

One option is to look for teams looking to dump overpriced players. Similar to what Charlotte did in swapping Corey Magette for Ben Gordon and a future Detroit 1st rd. pick(protected).

The downside of this is you take on salary, which doesn't seem to be part of the plan.
And also you're possibly stuck with a guy like Gordon for a couple years. And the pick could just roll over for a few years.Ideally you'd find a team desperate enough to avoid the luxury tax that they give you a very favorable deal(top 3 protected pick or young talent). Not sure how many teams out there are in that boat.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The issue with him is the cost. He's looking for above MLE money right now.

Isn't he potentially worth more than that?

What is a 25 yr old starting 2 guard with serious upside worth?

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Isn't he potentially worth more than that?

What is a 25 yr old starting 2 guard with serious upside worth?

I think you're way overrating him. He's an average rotation player with no singular skill.

The Mavs just aren't going to commit 3-4 years of MLE+ money to someone that isn't a core piece.

mac222b · 07-06-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Isn't he potentially worth more than that?

What is a 25 yr old starting 2 guard with serious upside worth?

I think a good reference for him might be Arron Afflalo.
Afflalo is maybe a slightly better defender and a better more consistent 3 point shooter. Mayo is a better ball handler and can get his own shot more consistently.

Afflalo got 5yrs. 43million. Not sure about the details. Also that was in the old CBA.

Some of it is a matter of perception. Afflalo seems to be improving, a hard-worker, whereas Mayo was a prodigy whose game has maybe peaked or slipped even.

oilfieldtrash · 07-06-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you're way overrating him. He's an average rotation player with no singular skill.

The Mavs just aren't going to commit 3-4 years of MLE+ money to someone that isn't a core piece.

Not saying this is the guy but the mavs need some pieces otherwise we aren't gonna land the big fish at all.

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I think a good reference for him might be Arron Afflalo.
Afflalo is maybe a slightly better defender and a better more consistent 3 point shooter. Mayo is a better ball handler and can get his own shot more consistently.

Afflalo got 5yrs. 43million. Not sure about the details. Also that was in the old CBA.

Some of it is a matter of perception. Afflalo seems to be improving, a hard-worker, whereas Mayo was a prodigy whose game has maybe peaked or slipped even.

Afflalo is a MUCH better defender. Much, much better.

sike · 07-06-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you're way overrating him. He's an average rotation player with no singular skill.

Come on, brother...we both know that average "rotation players" don't at any point in their career average 18ppg.

The guy was a VERY solid scorer his first 2 seasons in the league. I know from watching him that he gave the Mavs fits.

As far as him not having any "singular skill", I would suggest that "scoring" is something this team could use from the shooting guard spot, and that is what I've seen him do well in the past.

I'm not saying I've watched a ton of Memphis games though...so if you have, I'll take your word.

mac222b · 07-06-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you're way overrating him. He's an average rotation player with no singular skill.

The Mavs just aren't going to commit 3-4 years of MLE+ money to someone that isn't a core piece.

I think Thing hit on it- "no singular skill". Tony Allen took his spot because he's a first team all-defensive player that impacts every possession. Mayo is a good defender, a good 3 point shooter, etc. just not great at any one thing.

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

Not saying this is the guy but the mavs need some pieces otherwise we aren't gonna land the big fish at all.

I think, at this point, it's a good bet that our flexibility is used in a trade, rather than a straight up FA signing. So what you have around at the time doesn't matter as much.

Murphy3 · 07-06-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think, at this point, it's a good bet that our flexibility is used in a trade, rather than a straight up FA signing. So what you have around at the time doesn't matter as much.

But the point is to have the flexibility to go about this quick rebuild process from multiple ways. Perhaps you develop a piece or two this year to go along with Dirk... You make a trade.. and suddenly you look like a more viable option in free agency.

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Come on, brother...we both know that average "rotation players" don't at any point in their career average 18ppg.

The guy was a VERY solid scorer his first 2 seasons in the league. I know from watching him that he gave the Mavs fits.

As far as him not having any "singular skill", I would suggest that "scoring" is something this team could use from the shooting guard spot, and that is what I've seen him do well in the past.

I'm not saying I've watched a ton of Memphis games though...so if you have, I'll take your word.

He's been a 40% shooter over the past two years.

I think it's worth pointing out that Memphis could have made him a restricted free agent, but didn't give him a qualifying offer because they were SCARED that he would accept it.

I have zero interest in Mayo at anything even close to the MLE.

Plus, he's going to get 3-4 years. And at this point, I'd bet pretty heavily that the Mavs don't give out a single contract longer than two years until they cash in and find that difference maker.

jthig32 · 07-06-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

But the point is to have the flexibility to go about this quick rebuild process from multiple ways. Perhaps you develop a piece or two this year to go along with Dirk... You make a trade.. and suddenly you look like a more viable option in free agency.

I agree, but those pieces are not going to get long term, MLE+ deals unless they are bonafide difference makers. And Mayo is not even close to that.

spreedom · 07-06-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's been a 40% shooter over the past two years.

I think it's worth pointing out that Memphis could have made him a restricted free agent, but didn't give him a qualifying offer because they were SCARED that he would accept it.

I have zero interest in Mayo at anything even close to the MLE.

Plus, he's going to get 3-4 years. And at this point, I'd bet pretty heavily that the Mavs don't give out a single contract longer than two years until they cash in and find that difference maker.

I don't think that was a basketball decision, at all. It was purely a financial decision and since they didn't plan on bringing him back, they waived him so remove the cap hold -- they don't want to pay the luxury tax on his salary, which basically means they don't think he's worth $10-12M per year. If they hadn't grossly overpaid for Rudy Gay two years ago, I think they definitely would have kept Mayo at any reasonable price.

Murphy3 · 07-06-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I agree, but those pieces are not going to get long term, MLE+ deals unless they are bonafide difference makers. And Mayo is not even close to that.

Ahhh... I'm more talking about developing a player or two this year either via what they've drafted, roddy b, or through a cheap free agent... making a move trade deadling time or after the season (depending upon the pieces that are here), and then looking more attractive to free agents.

I hate to speak in such generalities.. but that's what we're left with at this point until we have a better idea of what the Mavs roster will look like even going into this season.

clutch#41 · 07-06-2012, 01:02 PM

JET>MAYO
MAYO>MILES
Lou Williams>JET

muzak · 07-06-2012, 01:03 PM

Are we not going after Kayman at all? I haven't really heard anything about him. He's got offensive game, which we've never really had at that position. Wondering would Kayman, Dirk, Brand, Marion be tolerable in the interim...

mac222b · 07-06-2012, 01:07 PM

Im interested to see how the MBT walks the fine line between quick be-build, "tanking" and fielding a semi-competitive, watchable team.

My worry now is that they get just enough Brands, Sessions, Camby's, Kamans and Delontes that they don't develop the youngsters and win just enough to get pick 14 in
a weak draft. You almost have to roll with a skeleton crew and try and ship off Marion or Haywood for a pick or young piece. Develop Roddy, Cunningham, Crowder, James, Wright, etc. and hope that 2 or 3 turn into valuable rotation guys. And that you land a top 10 pick

sike · 07-06-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

He's been a 40% shooter over the past two years.

And this is when I get to ask you what you expect he would be making if his last 2 season were identical to his first two? (I'm betting you would agree with me that it would be more than the MLE)

Quote:

I think it's worth pointing out that Memphis could have made him a restricted free agent, but didn't give him a qualifying offer because they were SCARED that he would accept it.

I too find this very interesting. But I'm also willing to bet that Mayo got crossways with the franchise for being benched...but that is pure speculation on my part.

Quote:

I have zero interest in Mayo at anything even close to the MLE.

This is totally fair. But some kind of bet MUST happen between us if they do acquire him, bc I disagree.

The dude is turning 25 just as this season begins. Sheesh. I see youth and potential there.

I see Mayo's skill ceiling as something just under an All Star...you see him as an "average rotation player".

saclare · 07-06-2012, 01:16 PM

I suspect Mayo to get something comparable to what Michael Beasley got at 3/18. I would be pretty happy with that signing. And if not 3 years, maybe a 2/12 or 14? I think the kid can ball given the chance and playing alongside Dirk would be much more beneficial to him.

DirkFTW · 07-06-2012, 01:21 PM

I don't think it's time to move past drunk-dialing Deron yet.

Ninkobei · 07-06-2012, 01:25 PM

Now, what we do next is this: let all of the bandwagoners hop off in some backwoods country, they can go back to being LA or MIA fans if they choose, and the real Dallas fans will come out and run this team for a few years to get it back on its feet!

edit: i should totally go into politics.

Bayliss · 07-06-2012, 01:31 PM

Mayo also had a change in position. Hollins wanted him to be the ptoint when conley wasnt in there.

Kidd Karma · 07-06-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilfieldtrash

At what point do we say fack it and try to get some young talent at bargain rates? If all these teams are handcuffed by the CBA why can't we get some steals?

Not many teams are looking at summer 2013 or 2014 for that matter. You will start to see teams panic around trade deadline time, when new buys are under performing. You will see players on multi year deals shipped out pennies on the dollar for expirings. When the Cavs traded for Baron Davis they were able to pick up a lottery pick for eating the contract. Once the major signings are done, I'd like to see a review of team's over the lux tax threshold, at that point you will get an idea as to who will unload. Minny is now getting a lot of pub, but still without Rubio for half the season, they might be a team willing to unload a contract or 2 for example. You look at Batum, is he worth his contract? No but to get him Minny had to overpay. Orlando resigns Nelson....what are you doing? As for that market correction, probably next year, you will still see the maxes, but I think the available pool will grow, instead of 1 OJ Mayo, you will possibly 3 to choose from next summer.

sike · 07-06-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I think the available pool will grow, instead of 1 OJ Mayo, you will possibly 3 to choose from next summer.

And like the old saying goes, "A bird in the bush is worth"....wait...what?