Mavs Trade Mahinmi to Pacers for Darren Collison & Dahntay Jones - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

kg_veteran · 07-11-2012, 09:27 PM

If the Mavs can add Brand, who is a serious ballplayer, and bring Delonte West back, I'll really start to perk up.

Kaman/Brand/Nowitzki up front (with Brandan Wright providing a bit of depth)
Marion/Carter/Jones/Cunningham/Beaubois at SG/SF
Collison/West at PG

That team lacks some outside shooting, but it will be scrappy, and you'll definitely be more athletic on the perimeter.

rabbitproof · 07-11-2012, 09:28 PM

Does anyone make a bid for Haywood (even 5% chance)? That would be sweet and help the books for maxing out the bid on Brand?

jthig32 · 07-11-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Does anyone make a bid for Haywood (even 5% chance)? That would be sweet and help the books for maxing out the bid on Brand?

Doesn't affect our cap space at all. Just saves Mark money.

I'd be surprised if Haywood wasn't claimed.

BGMaverick9 · 07-11-2012, 09:30 PM

I think if you can find a shooter on this team, one who can possibly start, you're looking very competitive.

It's officially put up or shut up time for the French one. He's looking like he could assume Jet's role as the 6th man.

mac222b · 07-11-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Does anyone make a bid for Haywood (even 5% chance)? That would be sweet and help the books for maxing out the bid on Brand?

More than likely. Probably a few teams bid.

rabbitproof · 07-11-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Doesn't affect our cap space at all. Just saves Mark money.

I'd be surprised if Haywood wasn't claimed.

I know it doesn't help cap space but it helps out the books and may give Mark a little more leeway to venture into LT.

I'm a bit surprised so many people think he will get bids. How does it work for someone with multiple years to go? New contract? What are the odds he gets claimed and for how much?

rabbitproof · 07-11-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I think if you can find a shooter on this team, one who can possibly start, you're looking very competitive.

It's officially put up or shut up time for the French one. He's looking like he could assume Jet's role as the 6th man.

Korver for minimum works.

By claiming Brand, don't we lose all our exceptions (trade and salary)?

sike · 07-11-2012, 09:37 PM

One question I am intrigued to see answered, is "How much improvement can playing with Dirk bring to DC's game as a young PG?" (As is true with just about EVERY player coming to the Mavs, DC has NEVER played with someone like Dirk.)

BGMaverick9 · 07-11-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I know it doesn't help cap space but it helps out the books and may give Mark a little more leeway to venture into LT.

I'm a bit surprised so many people think he will get bids. How does it work for someone with multiple years to go? New contract? What are the odds he gets claimed and for how much?

I could be wrong, wouldn't be surprised, but I think you absorb the years on the contract when you claim a player.

grndmstr_c · 07-11-2012, 09:39 PM

If Brendan had played for some other team and was amnestied, and the Mavs were under the cap and had any sort of long-term need for a center, but failed to bid on him, I'd be pissed.

jthig32 · 07-11-2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I know it doesn't help cap space but it helps out the books and may give Mark a little more leeway to venture into LT.

I'm a bit surprised so many people think he will get bids. How does it work for someone with multiple years to go? New contract? What are the odds he gets claimed and for how much?

He has three years left (fourth year is unguaranteed and thus no longer relevant). So teams will bid and amount, and the winning team splits that amount across three seasons.

BGMaverick9 · 07-11-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

One question I am intrigued to see answered, is "How much improvement can playing with Dirk bring to DC's game as a young PG?" (As is true with just about EVERY player coming to the Mavs, DC has NEVER played with someone like Dirk.)

Pick and roll could be filthy with Dirk. Collison has pretty good speed and can get to the tin. I've seen he's got a floater in his game, so that's going to help preserve the wear and tear on him.

I like how he moves without the ball.

sike · 07-11-2012, 09:55 PM

Mavs fans are not going to know how to appreciate a PG that can move like DC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Pick and roll could be filthy with Dirk. Collison has pretty good speed and can get to the tin. I've seen he's got a floater in his game, so that's going to help preserve the wear and tear on him.

I like how he moves without the ball.

BGMaverick9 · 07-11-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Mavs fans are not going to know how to appreciate a PG that can move like DC.

It looks like he's crafty on defense, too. He's got lively hands.

I'm curious to see why things slipped a bit this year, maybe a little more crowded at the position?

sike · 07-11-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It looks like he's crafty on defense, too. He's got lively hands.

Lightening quick from everything I've seen.

Quote:

I'm curious to see why things slipped a bit this year, maybe a little more crowded at the position?

I'm betting that a move to a new team (especially Dirk's team) will spark that young man to higher heights. They will be good for each other.

I'm pretty danged stoked and what the day has brought.

A legit post scorer to help free Dirk up & a legit speedster PG to run the P&R with Dirk.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team isn't better than last season's right now.

Underdog · 07-11-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

I wouldn't be surprised if the team isn't better than last season's right now.

We were better than last season's team the moment we shipped Lamar's sorry ass, but Kaman and Collison are definitely upgrades from Haywood and Kidd (at this point in his career, anyway...)

blessednegr0 · 07-11-2012, 10:32 PM

One word... "HAPPY"

Dirkenstien · 07-11-2012, 10:37 PM

Very resourceful and savvy trade. Nice!

Underdog · 07-11-2012, 10:48 PM

Best alternative to D-Will/Nash: Dragic, Lin or Collison?

Murphy3 · 07-11-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We were better than last season's team the moment we shipped Lamar's sorry ass, but Kaman and Collison are definitely upgrades from Haywood and Kidd (at this point in his career, anyway...)

Collison is light years ahead of Kidd.. Kidd had a nice run at times in the playoffs during the championship run but other than that, I'm sure as hell glad he's gone.

BGMaverick9 · 07-11-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Best alternative to D-Will/Nash: Dragic, Lin or Collison?

I'd put him above Lin. I don't think I can put him ahead of Dragic, but that's because I was so in the tank for the kid.

I definitely am a fan of getting Collison. I think he would be right there in that second tier if he was on the market this summer.

Dale4Saul2Red0 · 07-11-2012, 11:01 PM

Collison will help with defensive intensity. He loves getting up in other guards grills and really making life pressing for them on defense

purplefrog · 07-11-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale4Saul2Red0

Collison will help with defensive intensity. He loves getting up in other guards grills and really making life pressing for them on defense

I agree and Dahntay Jones is another energetic and strong perimeter defender. This is a great deal for the Mavs. The intensity that these two will bring is just what the doctor ordered.

rabbitproof · 07-11-2012, 11:50 PM

The potential is there, he almost made people forget about CP3 when CP3 was hurt back in New Orleans. He was basically the centerpiece of a pretty big trade the following summer (involved Ariza, Lee, Murphy among others).

That said, he was pretty poopy in Indiana last year. He lost the starting gig and they are seemingly eager to lose him. As such, my expectations are pretty low. He's a borderline starter but the good potential is intriguing.

I'm thinking a more natural PG version of Roddy with more experience. A clear cut below Dragic, Lin. To compare him to Sessions is a bit generous but he's in the same tier.

Murphy3 · 07-11-2012, 11:52 PM

A borderline starter at the point.. that's more than the Mavs had last year with Kidd.

rabbitproof · 07-11-2012, 11:55 PM

I actually think he would've gotten a similar offer to Kidd. A year more or less, a million more or less. 3/10 or 2/9, something like that.

CaseyJones · 07-12-2012, 12:08 AM

I always hoped for the best for Mahinmi but he wasn't progressing fast enough in Dallas and I'm excited to see what he does for Indiana. Also glad to get Collison, great growing point guard. I love the Kaman pick up more though.

Also, noticed they are 1 year deals, that means either we're going to get something big next off season or it's going to be another failed season.

Either way, already getting better pick ups than we did last off season. Hopefully we sign Dante back and trade Haywood and Carter. Which David Aldridge says he has sources that point to Haywood being gone before the season starts.

DavidDaMonkey · 07-12-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaseyJones

I always hoped for the best for Mahinmi but he wasn't progressing fast enough in Dallas and I'm excited to see what he does for Indiana. Also glad to get Collison, great growing point guard. I love the Kaman pick up more though.

Also, noticed they are 1 year deals, that means either we're going to get something big next off season or it's going to be another failed season.

Either way, already getting better pick ups than we did last off season. Hopefully we sign Dante back and trade Haywood and Carter. Which David Aldridge says he has sources that point to Haywood being gone before the season starts.

I've got a source that guarantees Haywood will be gone. Don't tell anyone though.

NoTnERb · 07-12-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey

I've got a source that guarantees Haywood will be gone. Don't tell anyone though.

haha, lol.

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2012, 12:37 AM

Defensive guard with good height that can also hit the three (43% last year) and space the floor?

could be an underrated part of this trade.

Also Collison is good and can be great here. He defends, he attacks, he creates motion. At the very least that is a strong deal. Atbest it's a steal.

alby · 07-12-2012, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

If the Mavs can add Brand, who is a serious ballplayer, and bring Delonte West back, I'll really start to perk up.

Kaman/Brand/Nowitzki up front (with Brandan Wright providing a bit of depth)
Marion/Carter/Jones/Cunningham/Beaubois at SG/SF
Collison/West at PG

That team lacks some outside shooting, but it will be scrappy, and you'll definitely be more athletic on the perimeter.

Agreed. But at this stage of their careers, aren't VC and DJ really just jump shooters now? DJ better at defense, obviously.

The best thing about our pick ups from a basketball standpoint is that they are all guys with relatively high basketball IQs. Definitely Carlisle-type guys. Good stuff, MBT.

Also, didn't Haywood already hint about going to the Nets or something?

G-Man · 07-12-2012, 01:41 AM

100% agree that trading is what the MBT does best. This is a very good day. All the point guards left out there are flawed. DC is quick and tough. This is the kind of team with the kind of player RC will love to coach. Lots of good defenders on the wings should help cover for Kamen's defensive shortcomings...sort of the opposite of how we needed Tyson's defense to cover for Jet, JJB and Kidd in 2011.

Mavsfan2thedeath · 07-12-2012, 02:35 AM

Everyone keeps talking about Kaman's defensive shortcomings, but if you look at his defensive efficiency ratings, he appears to be pretty good! Am I missing something?

Five-ofan · 07-12-2012, 04:14 AM

One other thing, this contract provides a great way to realize what a value the Kansan contract was. I really like mahimi and I realize that's it over four years instead of one, but there's no way in hell mahimi should get twice the guaranteed money that kaman got

Budapest Maverick · 07-12-2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Best alternative to D-Will/Nash: Dragic, Lin or Collison?

Dragic, but i do think Collison is better than Lin.

Budapest Maverick · 07-12-2012, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Agreed. But at this stage of their careers, aren't VC and DJ really just jump shooters now? DJ better at defense, obviously.

The best thing about our pick ups from a basketball standpoint is that they are all guys with relatively high basketball IQs. Definitely Carlisle-type guys. Good stuff, MBT.

Also, didn't Haywood already hint about going to the Nets or something?

Jones is not a jumpshooter, he can't really shoot. He's a defender, a really good one at that though. He can't make open 3's consistently though, he won't even attempt most of the time, he has 268 career attempts. I can't see, nor do i want him to start. West is a much better offensive player, same with Roddy.

Budapest Maverick · 07-12-2012, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavsfan2thedeath

Everyone keeps talking about Kaman's defensive shortcomings, but if you look at his defensive efficiency ratings, he appears to be pretty good! Am I missing something?

He's a solid defender, if anything, he's an overrated offensive player. He won't be much of an upgrade offensively to Tyson Chandler. I think Kaman will put up around 10 points, 12 maximum, to go with 8 boards in around 28, 30 minutes.

b_o_r · 07-12-2012, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Defensive guard with good height that can also hit the three (43% last year) and space the floor?

could be an underrated part of this trade.

Also Collison is good and can be great here. He defends, he attacks, he creates motion. At the very least that is a strong deal. Atbest it's a steal.

He is smaller than Roddy and according to the Pacers boards/writers, he has a lot of trouble getting through screens in PnR situations. If you are a stats person, his defensive rating is 7pts higher than Roddy and 4pts higher than West--that's not good at all. He is a much more natural PG than Roddy/West though.

Underdog · 07-12-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

He's a solid defender, if anything, he's an overrated offensive player. He won't be much of an upgrade offensively to Tyson Chandler. I think Kaman will put up around 10 points, 12 maximum, to go with 8 boards in around 28, 30 minutes.

Huh?

Tyson Chandler has only averaged over 10 PPG three times in his career, whereas Chris Kaman hasn't averaged under 10 PPG since his second year in the league... Hell, he averaged 13.1 PPG last season on an awful Hornets squad and averaged as high as 18.5 PPG just a couple years ago in 09-10.

Offensively, those two guys aren't even in the same conversation.

OneLove22 · 07-12-2012, 07:50 AM

New Orleans is like our personal farm for centers.