Brand to Dallas

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Well, that's good, but it's also not what I said.



"Past his prime" is a red herring. Lots of good players are past their prime. Kobe Bryant is past his prime. He's still pretty decent, no? Dirk will be past his prime fully in a year or so. Will he suddenly suck?

The issue is value for dollar, and Brand at $2.1M is an incredible value.

As for Collison, the Pacers absolutely did not feel that Augustin was an upgrade. I have no idea where you're getting that. They felt that they wouldn't be able to afford Collison next year, so they took the opportunity to obtain a backup C they thought they needed because Hansbrough absolutely kills their 5-man productivity in most situations. And George Hill is a combo guard, not a point. The decision to re-up him was fairly independent of what happened with Collison.



What, exactly, do you think they promised us? A star player not "past his prime," signed sealed and delivered? I must have missed the part where anybody promised that.



Yes, and that's really all I was saying. And it was directed at people other than you. I really don't know why you're being so defensive. It's a bit out of character.

A) Personally, I feel Dirk and Kobe are still in the prime of their careers. Maybe at the end but still top 5 or 6 players in this league.

B) In regards to Collison, I saw George Hill outplay him and even eventually take his spot by the end of the season. That's not a knock on Collison. Some guys just don't fit certain teams. Hopefully he fits here because two years ago I honestly thought he was a future top 10 point guard in this league. He was great his rookie season when Paul went down.

C) In regards to what we were promised...we tore up our championship team in order for a shot to sign Deron Williams. And I know its become tiresome to hear. I know it but its still frustrating for me as a fan to see where this team is now and where it was 2 years ago.

I don't mean to sound defensive. I'm not really even arguing with anyone its just the comment you made about people needing to owe this franchise an apology? I just don't agree with. I've enjoyed the moves but at the end of the day it just feels like we were signing guys once again to one year rentals in hope to once again sign a big fish next offseason and waste yet another year for Dirk's prime. That's really what pisses me off the most. I feel like another year of Dirk's career will be wasted.

[Budapest Maverick]

We need to sign Belinelli, and we're set, with a much improved roster from last year, well, at least on paper, chemistry need to be built obviously.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Oh I sure hope so. But even Dirk himself said he has about a good 2 or 3 years left. You just never know in this league. You see guys go form putting up 20 points a game and in just one offseason go down to 9 points per game. I'm still wondering when and how Tracy McGrady fell off so fast.

McGrady fell off because his game was mostly dependent on his athleticism... Dirk has never been athletic, so no worries there.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Depends on how far you went. I think they botched the Tyson Chandler/Deron Williams situation. But I never called for Donnie to get fired or anything like that. I also repeatedly mentioned that the Mavs could very easily be better than they were last year.. and that was before Kaman signed.

Yea so this new one year lineup is better than Tyson/deron. Don't think so, I don't see much crow to eat and I expect the playoffs will bear that out.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by sike

I didn't realize that San Antonio in the running for Williams...

Lol. Badda boom, badda bing!!

[OneLove22]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYII_aVOYJc

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I don't mean to sound defensive. I'm not really even arguing with anyone its just the comment you made about people needing to owe this franchise an apology? I just don't agree with. I've enjoyed the moves but at the end of the day it just feels like we were signing guys once again to one year rentals in hope to once again sign a big fish next offseason and waste yet another year for Dirk's prime. That's really what pisses me off the most. I feel like another year of Dirk's career will be wasted.

Well, again, that's where the audience for my comment is crucial. I'm talking to a certain group who accused Cuban of giving up, cheating out, or not caring. Thats not you.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of Championship

Because they put in on Brand or because his injury report or what?

Because where would he fit? Where do the minutes come from for him?

[Underdog]

Mavs get Elton Brand cheaply, plans still in line

Elton Brand, welcome to the re-tooled -- and still-retooling -- Dallas Mavericks.

The Mavs on Friday found out they won the bidding for Brand, the 6-foot-8 veteran power forward amnestied by the Philadelphia 76ers. He'll join Dirk Nowitzki and newcomer Chris Kaman to form a new-look and versatile front line. Brand, the No. 1 pick in 1999, has started 830 of 860 career games, but he would now figure to follow a long line of vets into Dallas that go from career starter to key reserve.

As for the 7-foot Kaman, he announced his arrival in Dallas on Friday via Twitter and the team announced the completion of his one-year, $8 million deal Friday evening. With Wednesday's sign-and-trade that netted point guard Darren Collison and defensive-minded wing Dahntay Jones, the Mavs have impressively turned the corner on their depressing start to free agency.

Brand, 33, might not be the player he once was, but he is a solid fit on the Mavs' roster and their books. As for the salary cap, he's on the final year of his deal that will pay him $18.2 million. ESPN.com's Marc Stein reported that Dallas' winning bid was $2.1 million, a good deal less than many expected the Mavs' so-called "aggressive" bid to be, an amount that easily qualifies Brand as the league's best backup power forward/center value.

The Mavs are responsible for the $2.1 million of Brand's salary with the 76ers picking up the balance. With the Mavs' grand plan to keep their cap space clear for a run at a max-contract star next summer, this move continues to further that cause with another quality player in the short-term.

"We have our plan and are sticking to it," owner Mark Cuban said.

On the floor, the long-armed Brand gives Dallas a heady, low-post defender and rim protector. He'll almost assuredly be asked to back up Nowitzki at power forward and then easily slide to center where he played a significant number of minutes last season for Philadelphia.

He told ESPN.com's Stein that he's looking forward to the challenge.

"I did it all last season," Brand said of playing center. "Of course, there’s a few guys we all have trouble with, but I’m not worried about it all."

Entering his 14th season, Brand might be at the perfect spot to transfer his somewhat declining mid-range offensive game to a bench role yet still play close to starter's minutes. He averaged career lows last season in scoring (11.0 points per game) and minutes (28.9), and put up his second-lowest rebounding totals (7.2). It was the first time in Brand's career that he averaged fewer than 30 minutes.

With the winning bid at $2.1 million, the Mavs still keep cap space open, believed to be about $4 million, for additional moves as this busy week continues.

It's not yet known if acquiring Brand will terminate the Mavs' interest in Rockets amnestied power forward Luis Scola. He has three years left on his deal and wouldn't seem an ideal fit on the floor. However, he, like Brand, would come cheaply through the amnesty process. Bids for Scola can be submitted now with the winner becoming known at 4 p.m. Sunday.

The Mavs also have other needs. Combo guard Delonte West remains unsigned. Dallas could bring him back on their "room" exception of $2.5 million. They are also in the market for perimeter shooting, a glaring weakness on the roster at the moment.

"We feel like there’s a lot of summer left," Mavs coach Rick Carlisle said Friday. "We’re still involved in talking to a lot of different people about a lot of different situations. We love shooters. We’re going to address that as we move forward here."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-still-in-line

[purplefrog]

I want the Mavs to be competitive for the duration of Dirk's career. Period. The FO has done a remarkable job of doing that for next season. There is no doubt. However,I still have huge reservations about their philosophy for the next 2-4 years. So, I'm not convinced they will be able to pull a rabbit out of their hat every year for the foreseeable future until they find a way to get that elusive elite superstar. I'm not all convinced.. yet. But you know what? I don't want to be a debbie downer and dwell on the potential challenges that still face the MBT with this strategy. It's much better to enjoy the moment and look forward to another year of the Mavs being in the hunt. I hope Donnie and Cuban keep wheeling and dealing but I also hope they strive for some stability. It's shaping up to be a fun year. Go Mavs!

[SMC0007]

Does this mean Jerry Stackhouse jersey has to come down from the rafters so Brand can have 42?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Does this mean Jerry Stackhouse jersey has to come down from the rafters so Brand can have 42?

I mean, that's pretty much /thread right there. Shut it down, ___ __ ____?

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

A) Personally, I feel Dirk and Kobe are still in the prime of their careers. Maybe at the end but still top 5 or 6 players in this league.

B) In regards to Collison, I saw George Hill outplay him and even eventually take his spot by the end of the season. That's not a knock on Collison. Some guys just don't fit certain teams. Hopefully he fits here because two years ago I honestly thought he was a future top 10 point guard in this league. He was great his rookie season when Paul went down.

C) In regards to what we were promised...we tore up our championship team in order for a shot to sign Deron Williams. And I know its become tiresome to hear. I know it but its still frustrating for me as a fan to see where this team is now and where it was 2 years ago.

I don't mean to sound defensive. I'm not really even arguing with anyone its just the comment you made about people needing to owe this franchise an apology? I just don't agree with. I've enjoyed the moves but at the end of the day it just feels like we were signing guys once again to one year rentals in hope to once again sign a big fish next offseason and waste yet another year for Dirk's prime. That's really what pisses me off the most. I feel like another year of Dirk's career will be wasted.

This is not dtowns finest.

[Underdog]

Dirk/Kaman/Brand/Wright - I don't think there's a team in the league that can hang with our bigs right now... Include Marion, and we have one helluva front court.

[Ninkobei]

No one bid higher than 2.1mil for Brand? That seems surprising. Great steal for the mavs

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Dirk/Kaman/Brand/Wright - I don't think there's a team in the league that can hang with our bigs right now... Include Marion, and we have one helluva front court.

We might have more skilled big men than the Lakers.

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

No one bid higher than 2.1mil for Brand? That seems surprising. Great steal for the mavs

The claim game is a good place to be for Dallas. Most teams with space aren't contenders and don't have a need for a 33 year old in decline guy.

It's small wonder that Brand wanted to be claimed by us. The alternatives were the likes of Charlotte, Wizards, etc.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Collison doesn't fit the princeton deliberate style vogel runs, he will do much better in Carlisle's system. Brand is still a solid big and will be one of the best 3rd bigs in the NBA.

The biggest knock on Collison was that he had trouble feeding the post and had a hard time delivering the right pass in the PnR, hence Voegl went with Hill after Collison returned from injury.


Hated Brand in Philly, but love the Brand signing here because Dirk has an actual backup now. Also, Brand and the Sixers as a whole was very good at shutting down the PnR. I went to the Sixers/Clippers game in Feb and the Sixers limited the Clippers to 2 dunks during the whole game.

[BGMaverick9]

With guys like Kaman and Brand on board, you're going to probably see a shift towards more of a deliberate pace...getting the ball in the post to let those guys work. Either way, they've got time to figure out what works best.

[He15man]

I like the moves, seems to me like Dallas is turning into more of the Spurs of the past with winning with defense.


We're going to need to find some guards who can score though. Hopefully we can get Lee or Mayo if he is still available.

[He15man]

Sounds like the Suns are going to offer Mayo a lot more money than Dallas could.

[He15man]

I think Courtney Lee is the guy that Dallas needs to get at this point.

[b_o_r]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

With guys like Kaman and Brand on board, you're going to probably see a shift towards more of a deliberate pace...getting the ball in the post to let those guys work. Either way, they've got time to figure out what works best.

That sounds terrible with the lack of natural shooters on the team. Secondly, Brand was much better in Philly receiving the ball off of a kick out or rolling to the basket than creating his own offense in the post. Also, Kaman isn't much of a passer out of the post.

[He15man]

These moves aren't going to make Dallas a championship contender by any stretch, but it does give them a playoff team(at least on paper, we'll see how they turn out of course) and it allows Dallas the flexibility to go out next summer and get some guys.

[turin]

Nice pickup, especially for the price, on Brand. Things have definitely lightened up mood-wise regarding the upcoming season. People have mentioned last year being a down year for Collison and Brand, but few have mentioned how the strike shortened season screwed with everybody's game (think Dirk early on). I'm looking forward to a normal season with a full training camp. The guys can come in, learn, condition, and be ready from the get-go for a "normal" season. That's going to be much better for everyone, especially Dirk.

Now we need a 3 point threat and sign West.

Also, I thought I heard a rumor about Scola tweaking a knee today or yesterday. Has anybody heard that?

[pepe]

I like the whole last three days, I can see them going after Scola and DWest and be set....But it will be nice to get BRush. Can the Mavs offer him 3/12? He is RFA...Any news, are the Warriors committed to this guy?

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by turin

Also, I thought I heard a rumor about Scola tweaking a knee today or yesterday. Has anybody heard that?

Correct. Twisted knee against Brasil. Olympic participation in question.

[EricaLubarsky]

Brilliant!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Not so much - he's too busy playing basketball for a chunk of the year, then the rest of the time he's a millionaire who can live wherever he wants... He chose money over winning and that's how it is (unless adding Joe Johnson to a team that won 33% of its games last season is going to put them over the top?)

He chose a team that was willing to spend whatever it took over one that was ( and will again next offseason ) stripping down. IMO he made the right decision for himself.

[EricaLubarsky]

Any word on non/early/full bird rights for brand?

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea so this new one year lineup is better than Tyson/deron. Don't think so, I don't see much crow to eat and I expect the playoffs will bear that out.

I'd obviously rather have Tyson and Deron.. I still think the Mavs botched last off season. No arguments from me.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yea so this new one year lineup is better than Tyson/deron. Don't think so, I don't see much crow to eat and I expect the playoffs will bear that out.

Unless you have access to an alternate universe in which we get to view the Mavs' 2013 playoff success with different personnel, the actual playoffs won't "bear out" anything regarding Chandler, Williams, or anybody else who could have been on the team but isn't.

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I'd obviously rather have Tyson and Deron.. I still think the Mavs botched last off season. No arguments from me.

and how would tyson + deron have worked?

dirk, marion, carter, roddy, dojo + rookies are on the books for 38 mil this year.

tyson is getting 13.6 this year... even if he took a paycut with the mavs and signed for 12... that would have left us 8 mil to sign deron... that doesnt work.

[Murphy3]

This is good for me. I like change. I was tired of Terry.. tired of Kidd.. tired of Haywood. It'll at least be fun to see how the new pieces work together.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Lor20

and how would tyson + deron have worked?

dirk, marion, carter, roddy, dojo + rookies are on the books for 38 mil this year.

tyson is getting 13.6 this year... even if he took a paycut with the mavs and signed for 12... that would have left us 8 mil to sign deron... that doesnt work.

Sorry, .. I suppose each time I have to go into the entire discussion. My point was this .. I seriously doubted that Deron would come here with the Mavs lack of assets. So, my thought was, if you can't keep Tyson and go after Deron, then it wasn't worth it.. Deron wasn't going to sign if the Mavs didn't have more current assets other than Dirk and Marion. So, either you go at with Tyson and try to somehow make things work (which didn't seem likely) or you don't make a run at deron at all..

Perhaps I was wrong, but that's how I felt.

Anyways, I'm more than happy to watch this team move on.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

This is good for me. I like change. I was tired of Terry.. tired of Kidd.. tired of Haywood. It'll at least be fun to see how the new pieces work together.

I had sentimental attachment to J-Kidd that allowed me to think he was better than he really was. Bummed to see him go, but I'm pretty happy with the pieces we've put in place in the wake of their departures.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I'd obviously rather have Tyson and Deron.. I still think the Mavs botched last off season. No arguments from me.

Me either. I also think dtownsfinest has been spot on this thread. The rentals are good value but like I didn't freak out about losing out on Deron, I remain cautiously optimistic that these guys have enough to make us second round worthy but we still have some major weaknesses at guard.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I think a few people already owe the front office an apology.

Happy to apologize, even though my only criticism was that they should have amnestied Haywood to keepp Tyson, and I still feel that way.

However, no one can fault the recovery Donnie and Cubes have made. I'm still waiting for the cops to show up and arrest someone for robbing the Pacers, though.

[kg_veteran]

I think Donnie Nelson does a great job with trades, which is why I maintain that (at a minimum) they should have retained Chandler with the clear realization that they could have traded him if things started to go south. This is doubly true when you consider the fact that they've never signed a max FA here in Dallas who wasn't already a Mav.

That said, it's a good thing that Donnie was allowed to go back to work. The frontcourt is now set. Time (as Carlisle mentioned) to go find some shooters, and this might actually be a salty team. Imagine if they had retained Terry...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

This is good for me. I like change. I was tired of Terry.. tired of Kidd.. tired of Haywood. It'll at least be fun to see how the new pieces work together.

Agreed... At the very least, the Mavs look like they put together an entertaining squad to watch.

And I don't see why anyone would doubt our ability to make the playoffs at this point - we're already better than last year's team, and we still have a few more moves left to make.