Dampier for Bonzi - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mcsluggo · 07-20-2006, 08:32 AM

I <heard> this rumor floating around a Kings' board, Bonzi sign-and-trade to Dallas for Dampier.

anyone heard similar here? thoughts?

Usually Lurkin · 07-20-2006, 08:36 AM

my thougts are that without a better source, this belongs in another section of the board.

dalmations202 · 07-20-2006, 08:50 AM

I think Madape put this rumor out there.....................

Usually Lurkin · 07-20-2006, 08:57 AM

I think Bonzi gives us exactly what we need, but Damp is a big cost. Our center position was great this year because Diop/Damp allowed each other to stay in the game for 48 minutes. I don't think DJ/Pavel is good enough yet to step in and replace one of those. I'd rather a trade of KVH or Croshere for a backup at the G/F spot.

dalmations202 · 07-20-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I think Bonzi gives us exactly what we need, but Damp is a big cost. Our center position was great this year because Diop/Damp allowed each other to stay in the game for 48 minutes. I don't think DJ/Pavel is good enough yet to step in and replace one of those. I'd rather a trade of KVH or Croshere for a backup at the G/F spot.

Can DJ/PPod be there by the end of the year, if they get the playing time? --- that would be the $M question that only people who see them everyday could gamble on.

Usually Lurkin · 07-20-2006, 09:17 AM

That's a good question. A friend of mine said that the one thing the mavs need is another player who has the ref's respect. Miami had Wade on the offensive end and Shaq/Mourning on the defensive end. The Mavs had only Dirk. Bonzi in Sactown looked like maybe he could gain some of that respect (though didn't he get suspended for hitting a ref once?), which may help offset the loss at center, as well.

dalmations202 · 07-20-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

That's a good question. A friend of mine said that the one thing the mavs need is another player who has the ref's respect. Miami had Wade on the offensive end and Shaq/Mourning on the defensive end. The Mavs had only Dirk. Bonzi in Sactown looked like maybe he could gain some of that respect (though didn't he get suspended for hitting a ref once?), which may help offset the loss at center, as well.

The game is changing quickly, with Phoenix, Cleveland, Chicago and Dallas pushing tempo. Since I don't really see a major offensive threat Banger center outside of Shaq (on the decline), Yao (who is robin instead of batman), and Kaman (another robin). Then I think the center position is moving more and more to the athletic types that run, jump, and protect the PF on the defensive end.

Dallas did this very well this year, and forced SA to not play a center. Phoenix didn't even have one that touched the court. Detroit played a 6'9" guy there.

The game is changing to promote the high flying swingmen -- Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Ginobli, Carter, and TMac are the real superstars because they instigate contact, and then draw the foul. Bigs get creamed, but no whistle.

With that said. There is still only one Shaq. I am not saying that the elite PF like Duncan, Dirk, and KG can't win now -- just that it is getting harder, not easier for them. Shooters like Allen, Redd, and Rip are having an easier time as well, since they are not calling the moving screens (except when it meets the agenda).

Banger type centers (Damp/PPod), that are not quick are going away from what I have seen because teams are just going to try and open up the lane for the slashers by moving them away from the bucket with shooters. The only way I can see them being truely useful is if they are playing a low-post scorer ie..Shaq, or they are good enough offensively to force the other team to play a banger type defensively -- eliminating an offensive threat.

If PPod (taking Damps role) can be a banger against Shaq, Yao, Kaman, and Curry.........then you really wouldn't need him for the most part against any other teams. The more athletic, quicker, centers would seem to be a better fit, IMO.

madape · 07-20-2006, 09:56 AM

This time next year, the Mavs won't be able to find ANYONE willing to take on Dampier. PPod and/or DJ will have passed him in the center rotation. A third string center racking up dozens of DNP-CDs while making over $10M per year for the next 4 years doesn't have much trade value. I say get what you can for him now, before it's too late.

Not sure if I like Bonzi though.

EricaLubarsky · 07-20-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

PPod and/or DJ will have passed him in the center rotation. A third string center racking up dozens of DNP-CDs while making over $10M per year

funny, you said that last year too

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-20-2006, 10:32 AM

The last thing we need is a 2/3 player. Why even have guys like Ager and Marshall if we do that? Centers like Damp are very valuable. He made his money against Miami if nothing else. If you average .5 points .5 rebounds and .5 blocks, but manage to get into the Diesel's head in the NBA finals, 10 million dollars right there.

This is all just because we're going to be bored until training camp. Bonzi won't happen.

spreedom · 07-20-2006, 10:32 AM

Dampier has ZERO trade value.. I don't think we could get Mark Madsen for him no matter how much we sweetened the deal. He has the definitive albatross contract and I can't imagine any scenario where he would be able to be traded straight-up for a player the caliber of Bonzi Wells.

madape · 07-20-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

funny, you said that last year too

?? prove it. I've always said that Pavel would take at least a couple of years to develop. Heck, I still say that it probably won't be until the 2007 season before Dampier is completely out of the rotation (assuming he's still on the team).

what I DID say last year was that Diop would force Avery to bench Damp. I'm not right all the time about everything, but I have been consistently right about the complete worthlessness of the biggest bust in Maverick franchise history.... Erick Dampier.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-20-2006, 11:22 AM

Why rail him? He isn't going anywhere. Get over it. I've come to grips with paying Buckner, now its your turn with Damp. Even if Buck does squat, I'm not gonna rail him every chance I get. I don't even do that with Stack, my least fav Mav. You don't like Damp, me and everyone on the planet, knows that. Since about 2000 of your posts probably come from railing him, why not add something of substance every once and a while so that this now boring offseason doesn't always invovle wasting my brain cells with Damp bashing posts.

madape · 07-20-2006, 11:28 AM

This is a thread about Dampier. I think that the fact that he's absolute garbage is relevant to the conversation, don't you?

Five-ofan · 07-20-2006, 12:00 PM

Hey ape, why do you bitch constantly about people who criticize stack yet you do nothing but criticize damp who is a better/more valuable player than stack.

jthig32 · 07-20-2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

?? prove it. I've always said that Pavel would take at least a couple of years to develop. Heck, I still say that it probably won't be until the 2007 season before Dampier is completely out of the rotation (assuming he's still on the team).

what I DID say last year was that Diop would force Avery to bench Damp. I'm not right all the time about everything, but I have been consistently right about the complete worthlessness of the biggest bust in Maverick franchise history.... Erick Dampier.

I hate myeslf for getting involved in this...

but...

Surely you're not trying to make the case the Diop forced Damp to the bench, right? I mean you do watch Mavs games. You do recognize that Damp is still a far better player than Diop, right?

Now, perhaps Damp needs the extra motivation off the bench. It'd be nice if he didn't. I still think it's mainly about not getting Damp in foul trouble, but whatever.

Regardless, most Mavs fans still recognize that Damp is still the best center on this team.

madape · 07-20-2006, 12:21 PM

Damp a better player than Stack? Har har. That's a good one 5-0. Dampier is a joke. Right up there with Rasho Nesterovic and Jerome James in terms of the number of punchlines he generates. When he was starting for the Mavs, you would be hard pressed to find a worse starting center in the entire NBA. He's a decent backup, I'll give you that. But to compare him to Stackhouse? Stack damned near won the 6th man of the year award last year. While Dampier was racking up DNP-CD in the playoffs, Stack was outscoring our opponents entire bench and helping this team make it to the WC finals.

There's a reason that teams want to trade for Stackhouse, and a reason that the Mavs won't include him in any deals. It's because he's the second best player on the Mavericks.

There's also a reason why some in the Mavs organization wanted to cut Dampier outright last year instead of Finley. It's because he's a no talent bum that hold the team back.

Damp arrived in Dallas with all the pomp of the new franchise Messiah, but he's proven to be no better than any of the Maverick stiffs of years past. He's Eric Montross incaranate! It's time Mav fans gave up on the guy.
Bonzi Wells? I don't care if the rumor was for Bubba Wells.. I do it. Anything so that we don't have to watch this bum suit up for the Mavericks every night for the next 5 years.

madape · 07-20-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I hate myeslf for getting involved in this...

but...

Surely you're not trying to make the case the Diop forced Damp to the bench, right? I mean you do watch Mavs games. You do recognize that Damp is still a far better player than Diop, right?

Now, perhaps Damp needs the extra motivation off the bench. It'd be nice if he didn't. I still think it's mainly about not getting Damp in foul trouble, but whatever.

Regardless, most Mavs fans still recognize that Damp is still the best center on this team.

Yes I do watch the games (do you?). I remember quite clearly that at the beginning of last year, Damp was playing like absolute shit and Diop was tearing up the court everytime he got in the game. Diop was a BETTER player at the beginning of the year and the Mavericks were a better team when he was on the court. So yes, Diops ability to produce (along with Damp's pathetic effort) forced Avery's hand.

Dampier got a fire lit under him and played well for about a month or two. He did look better than Diop for a while there. Heck, I'd even say he looked like a legitimate NBA starting center. But then guess what? He went back to sucking. No one was suprised. A word of caution... Don't expect anymore fires to be lit under this guy. His act is played out. He's done.

Diop is a better player now and will be a better player for however long Dampier is in the league.

jthig32 · 07-20-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Yes I do watch the games (do you?). I remember quite clearly that at the beginning of last year, Damp was playing like absolute shit and Diop was tearing up the court everytime he got in the game. Diop was a BETTER player at the beginning of the year and the Mavericks were a better team when he was on the court. So yes, Diops ability to produce (along with Damp's pathetic effort) forced Avery's hand.

Dampier got a fire lit under him and played well for about a month or two. He did look better than Diop for a while there. Heck, I'd even say he looked like a legitimate NBA starting center. But then guess what? He went back to sucking. No one was suprised. A word of caution... Don't expect anymore fires to be lit under this guy. His act is played out. He's done.

Diop is a better player now and will be a better player for however long Dampier is in the league.

Well, the obvious answer is agree to disagree.

But I just don't see how anyone can come to that conclusion logically.

jthig32 · 07-20-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Damp a better player than Stack? Har har. That's a good one 5-0. Dampier is a joke. Right up there with Rasho Nesterovic and Jerome James in terms of the number of punchlines he generates. When he was starting for the Mavs, you would be hard pressed to find a worse starting center in the entire NBA. He's a decent backup, I'll give you that. But to compare him to Stackhouse? Stack damned near won the 6th man of the year award last year. While Dampier was racking up DNP-CD in the playoffs, Stack was outscoring our opponents entire bench and helping this team make it to the WC finals.

There's a reason that teams want to trade for Stackhouse, and a reason that the Mavs won't include him in any deals. It's because he's the second best player on the Mavericks.

There's also a reason why some in the Mavs organization wanted to cut Dampier outright last year instead of Finley. It's because he's a no talent bum that hold the team back.

Damp arrived in Dallas with all the pomp of the new franchise Messiah, but he's proven to be no better than any of the Maverick stiffs of years past. He's Eric Montross incaranate! It's time Mav fans gave up on the guy.
Bonzi Wells? I don't care if the rumor was for Bubba Wells.. I do it. Anything so that we don't have to watch this bum suit up for the Mavericks every night for the next 5 years.

Second best player on the Mavs...

C'mon man. That ridiculous.

madape · 07-20-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Second best player on the Mavs...

C'mon man. That ridiculous.

No, you're ridiculous Who would you say is the second best? Josh Howard? The guy who disappeared in the playoffs? The Mav's "defensive stopper" who can't "stop" anyone? There isn't a more overrated player in the entire league.

Jason Terry is probably closest to Stackhouse in terms of ability and production. The problem with Terry, of course, is that he's a 2 guard in a point guard's body. He'll never be able to dominate the game the way Jerry Stackhouse can (and does). Remember, Stackhouse used to be a nearly 30 ppg scorer. He's our only player not named Dirk who's been an all-star. And outside of Dirk, he's the best offensive player on the team, by FAR.. and he's certainly no worse than Terry on the defensive side of the ball.

dalmations202 · 07-20-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

No, you're ridiculous Who would you say is the second best? Josh Howard? The guy who disappeared in the playoffs? The Mav's "defensive stopper" who can't "stop" anyone? There isn't a more overrated player in the entire league.

Jason Terry is probably closest to Stackhouse in terms of ability and production. The problem with Terry, of course, is that he's a 2 guard in a point guard's body. He'll never be able to dominate the game the way Jerry Stackhouse can (and does). Remember, Stackhouse used to be a nearly 30 ppg scorer. He's the Mavericks only player not named Dirk who's been an all-star. And outside of Dirk, he's the best offensive player on the team, by far.. and he's certainly no worse than Terry on the defensive side of the ball.

I hate to agree with Madape, so I won't.

But everyone here truly knows that Stack is in the top 4 (on the Mavs) whether they admit it or not.
Mad does have a debatable point that Stack could be considered #2, and even Darrell Armstrong stated such.

kg_veteran · 07-20-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

No, you're ridiculous Who would you say is the second best? Josh Howard? The guy who disappeared in the playoffs? The Mav's "defensive stopper" who can't "stop" anyone? There isn't a more overrated player in the entire league.

Howard's numbers were better than Stackhouse's numbers in every single round. Stackhouse's play in the NBA Finals was so poor that there were a number of people (albeit misguided) who were happy that he was suspended for a game so that somebody else could get his minutes.

Your opinion doesn't line up with the facts.

Flacolaco · 07-20-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

There's a reason that teams want to trade for Stackhouse, and a reason that the Mavs won't include him in any deals. It's because he's the second best player on the Mavericks.

The guy whos basketball IQ is so low he threw the ball off of the backboard on an intentionally missed free throw?

The Crippler · 07-20-2006, 03:02 PM

it's hilarious that you can justify saying that Howard disappeared in the playoffs, yet fail to mention that Stack was a bigger no show save for four games in the entire playoffs...

Personally I think Damp plays a big role on this team and I would hate to lose him. And it is of my opinion that anyone not drinking the Damp haterade can see this as well. He is what he is, a extremely good rebounder and one of the main reasons that we were one of the top 3 rebounding teams in the league.

jthig32 · 07-20-2006, 03:23 PM

Howard and Terry are better players than Stack, and it's not even close.

Not even remotely close.

EricaLubarsky · 07-20-2006, 03:37 PM

I know I put too much into roland rankings, but Nowitzki, Terry, Howard, Daniels and Harris were all above Stack. By the raw +/- Stackhouse is seventh on the team behind

Nowitzki, Terry, Howard, Diop, Griffin, and Harris.

madape · 07-20-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

The guy whos basketball IQ is so low he threw the ball off of the backboard on an intentionally missed free throw?

Or the guy who's IQ is so low he called the teams last timeout while the other team was at the free-throw line... take your pick.

EricaLubarsky · 07-20-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Or the guy who's IQ is so low he called the teams last timeout while the other team was at the free-throw line... take your pick.

or the guy that ended our 2004-2005 season because he was too-sef involved to listen to Avery

Arne · 07-20-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Or the guy who's IQ is so low he called the teams last timeout while the other team was at the free-throw line... take your pick.

Stackhouse is at best the fourth best player on this team. Everything else is pure illusion.

DelNegro · 07-20-2006, 04:40 PM

Sacramento is already paying Brad Miller $11 mil / yr. Why would they want to pay Dampier another $9 mil / yr on top of that? Besides, if the Kings wanted to S&T Bonzi they could do a hell of a lot better than Erick Dampier.

Five-ofan · 07-20-2006, 05:51 PM

Ape wow, I thought your hatred of damp was the low point but good lord man. Stack the second best player on the team? Are you high? He is EXTREMELY inneficient, the WORST defensive player on the team, a poor rebounder and he doesnt even get to the line anymore. In short, he is a bad offensive player, a bad defensive player, and a poor rebounder. To summarize that, he is a bad NBA player. I would love for you to list the things besides his supposed attitude that you think are positives.

Im sure you are one of the people that thinks stackhouse is "tough". I got news for you, he isnt. "tough" guys dont average around 46 games a year for 3 years. "tough" guys generally go to the line more than 3 times a game(during the playoffs). "Tough" guys grab rebounds. Jerry stackhouse is not tough. Is he a "thug"? Maybe but he isnt "tough"

chumdawg · 07-20-2006, 06:13 PM

He kicked Kirk Snyder's ass!

Five-ofan · 07-20-2006, 07:05 PM

very true. I fully admit that when stack gets hot he can take over games. The problem is that when he does get hot EVERYONE else is gonna get cold because no one else is gonna touch the ball.

purplefrog · 07-20-2006, 10:09 PM

I think Damp has done a great job for the Mavs, but the reality is that we need a more mobile and athletic option at the center position if we are going to match up with those teams that are going small. With Damp, Diop, and DJ we have three good shot blockers but unless DJ can develop more quickly I think we need another type of player in the middle. I think there may be one or two teams willing to take on Damp's contract, those being Indiana and maybe Cleveland. The Pacers were hot on Damp when he was a free agent and Cleveland desperately needs someone to back up Z. How about trying Damp for Jeff Foster and Sarunas Jesikevicious. Foster is a bit more mobile and a more than decent rebounder. Jasikevicious would fill our need for a third string point guard. He can shoot the trey and can also play the 2 if needed. He is a veteran of the Euro league and real winner. If you don't like that one, another possiblity is Damp to Cleveland in a sign and trade for Drew Gooden. It might be great to also package someone (KVH?) and acquire Damon Jones as a third string PG. Obviously the big problem with all of this does anyone want Damp? Maybe not.. but maybe?

chumdawg · 07-20-2006, 11:52 PM

I'm pretty sure that the same way we laugh at the prospect of taking on Martin's contract, other teams laugh at Damp's. It's like Cuban said in his blog after the Nash thing, when you sign an old guy to a contract like that, the assumption has to be that he will play it out with you.

Tokey41 · 07-20-2006, 11:53 PM

Damp is NO where as bad as Jerome James... you have to be a damn fool to say something like that. James IS a third string center and your just assuming Damp is going to be one (or a fourth). I cant believe someone would actually predict Pavel being ahead of our best center in the rotation... let alone Diop and Benga. Damp is still better than all of them because of his experience and defensive prescence... hes probably the best offense out of those four as well which isint saying much.

But for Bonzi... hell yeah i'd do it.

zico · 07-21-2006, 02:06 AM

Dampier is very bad.
He's slow, doesn't jump, has no ball handling at all.
Diop is much better. he helps in defense rotation, is the man who defended superbly against Duncan.
No team would want Dampier, even the Knicks.

dude1394 · 07-21-2006, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm pretty sure that the same way we laugh at the prospect of taking on Martin's contract, other teams laugh at Damp's. It's like Cuban said in his blog after the Nash thing, when you sign an old guy to a contract like that, the assumption has to be that he will play it out with you.

I don't quite agree with you here. They may think he's overpaid but he's not overpaid and hurt forever.

scorched03 · 07-21-2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't quite agree with you here. They may think he's overpaid but he's not overpaid and hurt forever.

i'd be all over a trade for anyone anyone that can backdown a guy in the post with some post moves with consistency. someone to prevent the mavs from lobbing shots when things go bad....