Lakers @ Mavs 8:00 PM CST (NBATV) - Page 14 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LonghornDub · 03-13-2011, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

national reputations aren't built by people who watch the NBA more than casually. And your cussing is just a result of your irrationality, which is what bugs me. And you're wrong. Dirk's passed up the big shot before, and people have taken note.

Yeah, he's passed up big shots before. About 10x less often than he's taken big shots. Unless your contention is that the casual NBA viewer has just coincidentally happened to catch only much-less-common scenario, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

National reputations are built by people watching the NBA Finals, the biggest event of the year, and Dirk not playing that well. They're built by the Mavs having one of the 10 best records in NBA history, losing in the first round with Dirk playing poorly, and then Dirk receiving an MVP trophy in the bowels of the AAC a week later in an awkward ceremony. They're built by the massive media coverage surrounding the only #1 seed to ever lose to a #8 seed, and the side stories about how it happened because Dirk's old coach told the thugs on his roster how to shut Dirk down.

That's how a "soft" reputation is built. It's not built from the uncommon instance in which Dirk passes out of a shot in the final minute.

If it makes you feel better to say my cussing is the result of "irrationality," fine, but I'm not being irrational in the least.

Usually Lurkin · 03-13-2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Yeah, he's passed up big shots before. About 10x less often than he's taken big shots. Unless your contention is that the casual NBA viewer has just coincidentally happened to catch only much-less-common scenario, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

National reputations are built by people watching the NBA Finals, the biggest event of the year, and Dirk not playing that well. They're built by the Mavs having one of the 10 best records in NBA history, losing in the first round with Dirk playing poorly, and then Dirk receiving an MVP trophy in the bowels of the AAC a week later in an awkward ceremony. They're built by the massive media coverage surrounding the only #1 seed to ever lose to a #8 seed, and the side stories about how it happened because Dirk's old coach told the thugs on his roster how to shut Dirk down.

That's how a "soft" reputation is built. It's not built from the uncommon instance in which Dirk passes out of a shot in the final minute.

If it makes you feel better to say my cussing is the result of "irrationality," fine, but I'm not being irrational in the least.

people interested in catching up on how the Mavs looked against the Lakers are treated to this in the APA recap:
", Nowitzki was in position to take a short jumper but instead threw the ball inside and out of bounds."
http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=310312006

You're being irrational in that you've somehow put yourself in the position of arguing that things like tonight do not affect how Dirk is perceived. Reputations are built. It's an ongoing thing, and what Dirk did tonight is consistent with what people expect Dirk to do. People take greater notice of it than when he makes a shot. Same is happening for Lebron.

dude1394 · 03-13-2011, 02:18 AM

Dirk isn't going to change...EVER...when he sees what he thinks is a better shot, he's going to give it up. Even if he's making an aggressive move towards the basket and a shot.

Better get used to it.

LonghornDub · 03-13-2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

You're being irrational in that you've somehow put yourself in the position of arguing that things like tonight do not affect how Dirk is perceived.

That's not what I'm arguing at all. Look at what you said and what I responded to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

That's where Dirks reputation comes from.

Dirk's reputation "comes from" the things I mentioned. Plays like tonight may play into that reputation, or as you say now, "affect how he is perceived," but they aren't where it "comes from."

If the Mavs win the championship one or both of those years, Dirk wouldn't have the "soft" label, even if he passes out of late-game shots with regularity (which he doesn't). That right there tells you where his reputation "comes from."

Usually Lurkin · 03-13-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

That's not what I'm arguing at all. Look at what you said and what I responded to:

Dirk's reputation "comes from" the things I mentioned. Plays like tonight may play into that reputation, or as you say now, "affect how he is perceived," but they aren't where it "comes from."

To argue like you are that where a reputation "comes from" is different than what kinds of things "play into" a reputation is completely and utterly irrational. To say that thinking otherwise would be one of the stupidest [cuss, cuss] things you've read on this bulletin board is so far out there, it's mind boggling.

jthig32 · 03-13-2011, 10:28 AM

Dirk's soft reputation comes from:

- Shooting jumpers instead of dunking on people
- Being honest in interviews instead of thuggish
- A couple of poor playoff performances

The idea that the masses of NBA followers are up to speed on the minuscule amount of times that Dirk has passed off instead of taking a last minute shot is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

dude1394 · 03-13-2011, 10:31 AM

And lack of hard fouls...which I thought he was more willing to give out last night than I've seen in a while. Still not a bruising foul but good hard non-swats at the ball.

Underdog · 03-13-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dirk's soft reputation comes from:

- Shooting jumpers instead of dunking on people
- Being honest in interviews instead of thuggish
- A couple of poor playoff performances

The idea that the masses of NBA followers are up to speed on the minuscule amount of times that Dirk has passed off instead of taking a last minute shot is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

Um, I'm pretty sure something along the lines of this phrase just kicked off two pages of logical fallacies and straw man arguments...

(here we go again?)

jthig32 · 03-13-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Um, I'm pretty sure something along the lines of this phrase just kicked off two pages of logical fallacies and straw man arguments...

(here we go again?)

I'm up for it.

mavsfan1000 · 03-13-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Dirk isn't going to change...EVER...when he sees what he thinks is a better shot, he's going to give it up. Even if he's making an aggressive move towards the basket and a shot.

Better get used to it.

So Dirk's always going to pass up late game shots to inferior offensive players? lol to Dampier and now to Chandler. Too bad Dirk wasn't a little more cocky. That way he wouldn't mind shooting more as he thinks he is the best player out there.

dude1394 · 03-13-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

So Dirk's always going to pass up late game shots to inferior offensive players? lol to Dampier and now to Chandler. Too bad Dirk wasn't a little more cocky. That way he wouldn't mind shooting more as he thinks he is the best player out there.

No that's not what I said. What I said is that dirk is going to make the pass when he thinks the other player has a better shot. He doesn't have an inflated sense of ego to want to force up a bad shot just so that he can have the shot.

mavsfan1000 · 03-13-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

No that's not what I said. What I said is that dirk is going to make the pass when he thinks the other player has a better shot. He doesn't have an inflated sense of ego to want to force up a bad shot just so that he can have the shot.

What he thought was the case wasn't. Dirk maybe a great shooter but his decision making on passing is very poor. Thus he would be better taking that shot even if forced.

jthig32 · 03-13-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

What he thought was the case wasn't. Dirk maybe a great shooter but his decision making on passing is very poor. Thus he would be better taking that shot even if forced.

Dirk is one of the best decision makers in the history of the NBA. His turnover rate combined with his usage rate is one of the things that makes him special.

That's not to say he's perfect. He does have a penchant for the lazy pass every once in a while. But his decision making is not "very poor". That's absurd.

mavsfan1000 · 03-13-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Dirk is one of the best decision makers in the history of the NBA. His turnover rate combined with his usage rate is one of the things that makes him special.

That's not to say he's perfect. He does have a penchant for the lazy pass every once in a while. But his decision making is not "very poor". That's absurd.

Agreed to disagree then. Making the simple pass anyone can do but the special passes is not in Dirk's game. Steve Nash was the one that had the special passes. Kidd could do it as well though it is harder now that he can't break down his man on the dribble. Anyways I understand Dirk likes to let other players get shots but the team is better when Dirk is confident enough to take those shots.

jthig32 · 03-13-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Agreed to disagree then. Making the simple pass anyone can do but the special passes is not in Dirk's game. Steve Nash was the one that had the special passes. Kidd could do it as well though it is harder now that he can't break down his man on the dribble. Anyways I understand Dirk likes to let other players get shots but the team is better when Dirk is confident enough to take those shots.

I didn't say Dirk makes special passes. But he DOES have a special ability to make the proper decision. If you fail to see that then you fail to see one of the key aspects of Dirk's game that makes him great, that being his lack of turnovers despite handling the ball a lot.

Dirk making that pass has nothing to do with confidence. It has to do with him believing that he could get someone else a better shot. He was wrong, and he would absolute be a slightly better player if he were more selfish. But it's not confidence keeping him from taking that shot.

dude1394 · 03-13-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I didn't say Dirk makes special passes. But he DOES have a special ability to make the proper decision. If you fail to see that then you fail to see one of the key aspects of Dirk's game that makes him great, that being his lack of turnovers despite handling the ball a lot.

Dirk making that pass has nothing to do with confidence. It has to do with him believing that he could get someone else a better shot. He was wrong, and he would absolute be a slightly better player if he were more selfish. But it's not confidence keeping him from taking that shot.

what he said.

Usually Lurkin · 03-13-2011, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The idea that the masses of NBA followers are up to speed on the minuscule amount of times that Dirk has passed off instead of taking a last minute shot is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

Well, the only place I've read this suggestion is here, in your post. So please, quit posting the dumbest things you'll ever read on this board.