Johnson For Finley and PP - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Pavel Podkolzine
RUSSIA | CENTER
HEIGHT: 7-5 | WEIGHT: 300 | AGE: 19
Insider scouting report

The Jazz sent Pavel to the Mavericks for a future first-round pick. As we reported this morning, the Mavericks are in love with Podkolzine and have been working for weeks to find a way to get him. Donnie Nelson was in Italy at the Reebok Eurocamp and worked out Podkolzine. He told me then that he thought Podkolzine was the third best player in the draft. The fact that the Mavs get to keep Devin Harris and still get Podkolzine is a home run for Dallas. I think this is the perfect place for Pavel to play. Dallas will hire the best big man coach available. If they don't get Shaq, they can at least groom Pavel to be a physical dominating center down the road. It will take a minimum of two years, but this is a great situation for Pavel.

This following is taken from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft analysis, and although Chad Ford says here that Donnie said he was the "third best player in the draft", I distinctly remember Ford saying in a post-draft Insider Q&A session (that I'm trying to find) that Donnie called him possibly the most talented player in the draft, and earlier in the year he cited an unnamed NBA GM who was covetting Pavel, and similarly called him the most talented player in his draft class (at the time I was certain that the unnamed GM was Donnie, because he and Ford have seemed to be thick as thieves for years, and Ford had quoted Donnie talking glowingly about Pavel in the past)...

I would say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if Donnie has downplayed Pavel's potential to the local press, just to buy the big man a little time to develop with lowered expectations, but I have the feeling that Donnie's proven evaluatory genius just may have picked up an enormous steal with the Pavel pick. Keep in mind that a great many scouts were projecting Pavel to be picked in the top 5 of the '03 draft, before the 18 year old Siberian dropped out and the public discovered that he had his pituitary gland problem. But by all accounts, the pituitary gland surgery that Podkolzine underwent last year has been as successful as anybody would wish, and because of that I can't help but imagine that the aggressive, coordinated, sharp-shooting Big Pavel that Donnie rated (at least) as the "third best player in the draft" will end up becoming far, far more of an impact player, far, far sooner, than most of y'all JJ jockeys seem to think...

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Pavel Podkolzine
RUSSIA | CENTER
HEIGHT: 7-5 | WEIGHT: 300 | AGE: 19
Insider scouting report

The Jazz sent Pavel to the Mavericks for a future first-round pick. As we reported this morning, the Mavericks are in love with Podkolzine and have been working for weeks to find a way to get him. Donnie Nelson was in Italy at the Reebok Eurocamp and worked out Podkolzine. He told me then that he thought Podkolzine was the third best player in the draft. The fact that the Mavs get to keep Devin Harris and still get Podkolzine is a home run for Dallas. I think this is the perfect place for Pavel to play. Dallas will hire the best big man coach available. If they don't get Shaq, they can at least groom Pavel to be a physical dominating center down the road. It will take a minimum of two years, but this is a great situation for Pavel.

This following is taken from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft analysis, and although Chad Ford says here that Donnie said he was the "third best player in the draft", I distinctly remember Ford saying in a post-draft Insider Q&A session (that I'm trying to find) that Donnie called him possibly the most talented player in the draft, and earlier in the year he cited an unnamed NBA GM who was covetting Pavel, and similarly called him the most talented player in his draft class (at the time I was certain that the unnamed GM was Donnie, because he and Ford have seemed to be thick as thieves for years, and Ford had quoted Donnie talking glowingly about Pavel in the past)...

I would say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if Donnie has downplayed Pavel's potential to the local press, just to buy the big man a little time to develop with lowered expectations, but I have the feeling that Donnie's proven evaluatory genius just may have picked up an enormous steal with the Pavel pick. Keep in mind that a great many scouts were projecting Pavel to be picked in the top 5 of the '03 draft, before the 18 year old Siberian dropped out and the public discovered that he had his pituitary gland problem. But by all accounts, the pituitary gland surgery that Podkolzine underwent last year has been as successful as anybody would wish, and because of that I can't help but imagine that the aggressive, coordinated, sharp-shooting Big Pavel that Donnie rated (at least) as the "third best player in the draft" will end up becoming far, far more of an impact player, far, far sooner, than most of y'all JJ jockeys seem to think...

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Pavel Podkolzine
RUSSIA | CENTER
HEIGHT: 7-5 | WEIGHT: 300 | AGE: 19
Insider scouting report

The Jazz sent Pavel to the Mavericks for a future first-round pick. As we reported this morning, the Mavericks are in love with Podkolzine and have been working for weeks to find a way to get him. Donnie Nelson was in Italy at the Reebok Eurocamp and worked out Podkolzine. He told me then that he thought Podkolzine was the third best player in the draft. The fact that the Mavs get to keep Devin Harris and still get Podkolzine is a home run for Dallas. I think this is the perfect place for Pavel to play. Dallas will hire the best big man coach available. If they don't get Shaq, they can at least groom Pavel to be a physical dominating center down the road. It will take a minimum of two years, but this is a great situation for Pavel.

This following is taken from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft analysis, and although Chad Ford says here that Donnie said he was the "third best player in the draft", I distinctly remember Ford saying in a post-draft Insider Q&A session (that I'm trying to find) that Donnie called him possibly the most talented player in the draft, and earlier in the year he cited an unnamed NBA GM who was covetting Pavel, and similarly called him the most talented player in his draft class (at the time I was certain that the unnamed GM was Donnie, because he and Ford have seemed to be thick as thieves for years, and Ford had quoted Donnie talking glowingly about Pavel in the past)...

I would say that it wouldn't surprise me at all if Donnie has downplayed Pavel's potential to the local press, just to buy the big man a little time to develop with lowered expectations, but I have the feeling that Donnie's proven evaluatory genius just may have picked up an enormous steal with the Pavel pick. Keep in mind that a great many scouts were projecting Pavel to be picked in the top 5 of the '03 draft, before the 18 year old Siberian dropped out and the public discovered that he had his pituitary gland problem. But by all accounts, the pituitary gland surgery that Podkolzine underwent last year has been as successful as anybody would wish, and because of that I can't help but imagine that the aggressive, coordinated, sharp-shooting Big Pavel that Donnie rated (at least) as the "third best player in the draft" will end up becoming far, far more of an impact player, far, far sooner, than most of y'all JJ jockeys seem to think...

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:53 PM

And here are a couple more Pavel quotes via Chad Ford and Donnie:

Quote:

"the 25 NBA people Insider talked to over the past two days unanimously agreed Podkolzine was the top international prospect in the draft. Most went further. Twenty of the 25 NBA scouts, coaches and executives Insider interviewed claimed he should be a top-five pick based on what they saw here. Three scouts said he should be the third player taken in the draft. One respected international scout and one NBA executive said they'd take him No. 1 -- over Okafor and Howard -- if their team owned the No. 1 pick (they don't, by the way)."

". In individual workouts, no one could guard him in the post. He was just too strong, physical and aggressive. On the perimeter, he's a dead eye. During the 3-point drill run for big men by Mavs vice-president Donnie Nelson on Tuesday, Pavel hit 18 of 25 from behind the international 3-point arc -- the second-best tally in the camp. What surprised a lot of people was Pavel's ability to handle and pass the ball in the open court. Several times during the event Pavel decided to play "point center" and was surprisingly adept running the show. He often got into showboating with the ball, making no-look passes and executing cross-over dribbles. Several scouts told him to quit clowning around, but privately they said he was the first kid that size who they've ever seen do something like that." Insider Link

I'm still looking for the quote from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft Q&A, where Ford says Donnie called Pavel the best talent in the draft, but I know I posted that article on D-M, so I should be able to find that one as welll...

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:53 PM

And here are a couple more Pavel quotes via Chad Ford and Donnie:

Quote:

"the 25 NBA people Insider talked to over the past two days unanimously agreed Podkolzine was the top international prospect in the draft. Most went further. Twenty of the 25 NBA scouts, coaches and executives Insider interviewed claimed he should be a top-five pick based on what they saw here. Three scouts said he should be the third player taken in the draft. One respected international scout and one NBA executive said they'd take him No. 1 -- over Okafor and Howard -- if their team owned the No. 1 pick (they don't, by the way)."

". In individual workouts, no one could guard him in the post. He was just too strong, physical and aggressive. On the perimeter, he's a dead eye. During the 3-point drill run for big men by Mavs vice-president Donnie Nelson on Tuesday, Pavel hit 18 of 25 from behind the international 3-point arc -- the second-best tally in the camp. What surprised a lot of people was Pavel's ability to handle and pass the ball in the open court. Several times during the event Pavel decided to play "point center" and was surprisingly adept running the show. He often got into showboating with the ball, making no-look passes and executing cross-over dribbles. Several scouts told him to quit clowning around, but privately they said he was the first kid that size who they've ever seen do something like that." Insider Link

I'm still looking for the quote from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft Q&A, where Ford says Donnie called Pavel the best talent in the draft, but I know I posted that article on D-M, so I should be able to find that one as welll...

Evilmav2 · 08-10-2005, 07:53 PM

And here are a couple more Pavel quotes via Chad Ford and Donnie:

Quote:

"the 25 NBA people Insider talked to over the past two days unanimously agreed Podkolzine was the top international prospect in the draft. Most went further. Twenty of the 25 NBA scouts, coaches and executives Insider interviewed claimed he should be a top-five pick based on what they saw here. Three scouts said he should be the third player taken in the draft. One respected international scout and one NBA executive said they'd take him No. 1 -- over Okafor and Howard -- if their team owned the No. 1 pick (they don't, by the way)."

". In individual workouts, no one could guard him in the post. He was just too strong, physical and aggressive. On the perimeter, he's a dead eye. During the 3-point drill run for big men by Mavs vice-president Donnie Nelson on Tuesday, Pavel hit 18 of 25 from behind the international 3-point arc -- the second-best tally in the camp. What surprised a lot of people was Pavel's ability to handle and pass the ball in the open court. Several times during the event Pavel decided to play "point center" and was surprisingly adept running the show. He often got into showboating with the ball, making no-look passes and executing cross-over dribbles. Several scouts told him to quit clowning around, but privately they said he was the first kid that size who they've ever seen do something like that." Insider Link

I'm still looking for the quote from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft Q&A, where Ford says Donnie called Pavel the best talent in the draft, but I know I posted that article on D-M, so I should be able to find that one as welll...

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 10:38 PM

Evil, I wish to god Pavel was as good as you seem to think he is... If he was, then maybe Phoenix might actually trade JJ to us for him. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 10:38 PM

Evil, I wish to god Pavel was as good as you seem to think he is... If he was, then maybe Phoenix might actually trade JJ to us for him. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 10:38 PM

Evil, I wish to god Pavel was as good as you seem to think he is... If he was, then maybe Phoenix might actually trade JJ to us for him. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:20 PM

JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:20 PM

JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:20 PM

JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jfossee
JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

First, of all, I think JJ is a little more than slightly above average. I agree that the Mavs shouldn't "mortgage their future" to get JJ. However, I just don't think Pavel is "the future."

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jfossee
JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

First, of all, I think JJ is a little more than slightly above average. I agree that the Mavs shouldn't "mortgage their future" to get JJ. However, I just don't think Pavel is "the future."

Thespiralgoeson · 08-10-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jfossee
JJ is getting way to much pub! he has had one decent year so far, the mavs wouldn't be so stupid as to mortgage their future on a slightly above average 2 guard.

First, of all, I think JJ is a little more than slightly above average. I agree that the Mavs shouldn't "mortgage their future" to get JJ. However, I just don't think Pavel is "the future."

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:35 PM

Agreed. I just think people are putting way to much stock in a 17ppg. 2 guard.

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:35 PM

Agreed. I just think people are putting way to much stock in a 17ppg. 2 guard.

jfossee · 08-10-2005, 11:35 PM

Agreed. I just think people are putting way to much stock in a 17ppg. 2 guard.

Evilmav2 · 08-11-2005, 03:53 AM

Good points, jfossee. Joe Johnson may have proven himself to be a decently good 17 ppg player while playing with the best offense in the '04 NBA, but I'd be hard pressed to see him ever making more of an impact in this league than a J.R. Rider or a Larry Hughes or a Desmond Mason...

Evilmav2 · 08-11-2005, 03:53 AM

Good points, jfossee. Joe Johnson may have proven himself to be a decently good 17 ppg player while playing with the best offense in the '04 NBA, but I'd be hard pressed to see him ever making more of an impact in this league than a J.R. Rider or a Larry Hughes or a Desmond Mason...

Evilmav2 · 08-11-2005, 03:53 AM

Good points, jfossee. Joe Johnson may have proven himself to be a decently good 17 ppg player while playing with the best offense in the '04 NBA, but I'd be hard pressed to see him ever making more of an impact in this league than a J.R. Rider or a Larry Hughes or a Desmond Mason...

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 04:05 AM

If anyone truly believes that one of our Conference rivals would trade to us a valuable commodity, and that we would in turn trade a piece that our rival "needs" to improve in the absence of that player......

Well, I suggest rehab. Crack kills.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 04:05 AM

If anyone truly believes that one of our Conference rivals would trade to us a valuable commodity, and that we would in turn trade a piece that our rival "needs" to improve in the absence of that player......

Well, I suggest rehab. Crack kills.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 04:05 AM

If anyone truly believes that one of our Conference rivals would trade to us a valuable commodity, and that we would in turn trade a piece that our rival "needs" to improve in the absence of that player......

Well, I suggest rehab. Crack kills.

alby · 08-11-2005, 04:10 AM

JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

alby · 08-11-2005, 04:10 AM

JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

alby · 08-11-2005, 04:10 AM

JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

I thought he was only going into his 5th year?

And he's only 24.

But I agree that he's not worth a max deal.

edit: If you mean he's too young to get what he's getting... okay. The first time I read that it sounded like you meant he was too old.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

I thought he was only going into his 5th year?

And he's only 24.

But I agree that he's not worth a max deal.

edit: If you mean he's too young to get what he's getting... okay. The first time I read that it sounded like you meant he was too old.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
JJ is a good player, but definitely not worth what atl or phoenix are signing him to at this stage in his career.

I thought he was only going into his 5th year?

And he's only 24.

But I agree that he's not worth a max deal.

edit: If you mean he's too young to get what he's getting... okay. The first time I read that it sounded like you meant he was too old.

jfossee · 08-11-2005, 09:40 AM

If you think that Phoenix wouldnt pull the trigger with any team WC or EC if the deal was sweet enough....then yes, rehab might be for you!

jfossee · 08-11-2005, 09:40 AM

If you think that Phoenix wouldnt pull the trigger with any team WC or EC if the deal was sweet enough....then yes, rehab might be for you!

Joey · 08-11-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kappasigma
this trade makes as much sense as taw for lebron

You think Cleveland would go for it??? [img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img]

Joey · 08-11-2005, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kappasigma
this trade makes as much sense as taw for lebron

You think Cleveland would go for it??? [img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/anim_laugh.gif[/img]

Some Guy · 08-11-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2
And here are a couple more Pavel quotes via Chad Ford and Donnie:

Quote:

"the 25 NBA people Insider talked to over the past two days unanimously agreed Podkolzine was the top international prospect in the draft. Most went further. Twenty of the 25 NBA scouts, coaches and executives Insider interviewed claimed he should be a top-five pick based on what they saw here. Three scouts said he should be the third player taken in the draft. One respected international scout and one NBA executive said they'd take him No. 1 -- over Okafor and Howard -- if their team owned the No. 1 pick (they don't, by the way)."

". In individual workouts, no one could guard him in the post. He was just too strong, physical and aggressive. On the perimeter, he's a dead eye. During the 3-point drill run for big men by Mavs vice-president Donnie Nelson on Tuesday, Pavel hit 18 of 25 from behind the international 3-point arc -- the second-best tally in the camp. What surprised a lot of people was Pavel's ability to handle and pass the ball in the open court. Several times during the event Pavel decided to play "point center" and was surprisingly adept running the show. He often got into showboating with the ball, making no-look passes and executing cross-over dribbles. Several scouts told him to quit clowning around, but privately they said he was the first kid that size who they've ever seen do something like that." Insider Link

I'm still looking for the quote from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft Q&A, where Ford says Donnie called Pavel the best talent in the draft, but I know I posted that article on D-M, so I should be able to find that one as welll...

If that were all true, why did he not get drafted earlier? Or were those 25 NBA people all part of the same team? Seems to me like at least half of the teams in the NBA didn't agree that he was that good. Any chance those NBA people were hyping Pavel so some other team would take him and let someone else fall?

The only thing I've seen the Mavs actually say (not Ford saying that Donnie said...) was that they think he can be a good backup. Seems like that is the best that most other teams thought too, or else he would have been drafted earlier.

Some Guy · 08-11-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2
And here are a couple more Pavel quotes via Chad Ford and Donnie:

Quote:

"the 25 NBA people Insider talked to over the past two days unanimously agreed Podkolzine was the top international prospect in the draft. Most went further. Twenty of the 25 NBA scouts, coaches and executives Insider interviewed claimed he should be a top-five pick based on what they saw here. Three scouts said he should be the third player taken in the draft. One respected international scout and one NBA executive said they'd take him No. 1 -- over Okafor and Howard -- if their team owned the No. 1 pick (they don't, by the way)."

". In individual workouts, no one could guard him in the post. He was just too strong, physical and aggressive. On the perimeter, he's a dead eye. During the 3-point drill run for big men by Mavs vice-president Donnie Nelson on Tuesday, Pavel hit 18 of 25 from behind the international 3-point arc -- the second-best tally in the camp. What surprised a lot of people was Pavel's ability to handle and pass the ball in the open court. Several times during the event Pavel decided to play "point center" and was surprisingly adept running the show. He often got into showboating with the ball, making no-look passes and executing cross-over dribbles. Several scouts told him to quit clowning around, but privately they said he was the first kid that size who they've ever seen do something like that." Insider Link

I'm still looking for the quote from Chad Ford's '04 post-draft Q&A, where Ford says Donnie called Pavel the best talent in the draft, but I know I posted that article on D-M, so I should be able to find that one as welll...

If that were all true, why did he not get drafted earlier? Or were those 25 NBA people all part of the same team? Seems to me like at least half of the teams in the NBA didn't agree that he was that good. Any chance those NBA people were hyping Pavel so some other team would take him and let someone else fall?

The only thing I've seen the Mavs actually say (not Ford saying that Donnie said...) was that they think he can be a good backup. Seems like that is the best that most other teams thought too, or else he would have been drafted earlier.

V2M · 08-11-2005, 10:13 AM

Fact is, the kid's only 20yrs old, 7'5", 300+lbs, can shoot, post-up and pass. He still is developing other areas of his game such as defense, running the court, understanding of the NBA game etc. It's been said that he needs a minimum of 2 years to develop. We have seen him 1 year of which half of it was spent in him recovering from his surgery.

Granted it's not guaranteed that he'd ever develop into another Shaq. Likewise we can't guarantee he'd be an absolute bust. For a center-starved league to give up on such a prospect so early in his career for a max-contract shooting guard, who's had 1 good year, a position at which we're fairly well-loaded, doesn't seem too wise for me.

Of course, it may be a totally moot point since this is only a rumor and no one expects this to happen.

V2M · 08-11-2005, 10:13 AM

Fact is, the kid's only 20yrs old, 7'5", 300+lbs, can shoot, post-up and pass. He still is developing other areas of his game such as defense, running the court, understanding of the NBA game etc. It's been said that he needs a minimum of 2 years to develop. We have seen him 1 year of which half of it was spent in him recovering from his surgery.

Granted it's not guaranteed that he'd ever develop into another Shaq. Likewise we can't guarantee he'd be an absolute bust. For a center-starved league to give up on such a prospect so early in his career for a max-contract shooting guard, who's had 1 good year, a position at which we're fairly well-loaded, doesn't seem too wise for me.

Of course, it may be a totally moot point since this is only a rumor and no one expects this to happen.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jfossee
If you think that Phoenix wouldnt pull the trigger with any team WC or EC if the deal was sweet enough....then yes, rehab might be for you!

Ain't happening.

Period.

Oh sure, if we threw in Howard or Dirk sure they would... cause we wouldn't be as much of a threat.

Likewise, the Mavs would do it if they threw in Amare.

I would like that. I would also like to get a knock on my office door and be handed a million dollar bonus check.

Sadly, neither will happen.

u2sarajevo · 08-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: jfossee
If you think that Phoenix wouldnt pull the trigger with any team WC or EC if the deal was sweet enough....then yes, rehab might be for you!

Ain't happening.

Period.

Oh sure, if we threw in Howard or Dirk sure they would... cause we wouldn't be as much of a threat.

Likewise, the Mavs would do it if they threw in Amare.

I would like that. I would also like to get a knock on my office door and be handed a million dollar bonus check.

Sadly, neither will happen.