About Walker, funny info.... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jibikao · 12-30-2004, 11:39 AM

I discovered this thread when I was luring in Kings forum:

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I've been poking fun at 'Toine ever since he was jacking up 3's with the Celts. Is there a easier guy to laugh at in the league? What's awesome is he doesn't even know he sucks; he thinks he's the best player on the floor at any given time. You know who that guy is, he's the one at the gym who shouts directions at his teammates, demands the ball every trip down the floor, shoots 20% (though not realizing it) while helping off his man who is nailing one open shot after another.

The point: the current Roland Ratings (from 82games.com) have Walker at the very bottom of their rankings, #200 in the league. Basically, for every 48 minutes Walker plays, his team is down 15.1 points. For every 48 minutes he doesn't play, his team is up 7.8 points, meaning he's responsible for an incredible negative 22.8-point swing every 48 minutes.

Which I guess means, in theory, if Walker sat out every game the Hawks could have a winning record.
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How the HELL did we sign Walker last year? Were we that desperated? This is another classic example of how Mavs' management is weak. Dirk is clearly the go-to guy but they would rather bring in Walker and Jaimson (he is much better) to ruin Dirks' improvement as a leader and go-to player in clutch time.

sigh....

But you gotta admit... it's funny. Poor Walker.

Jimmy

Hitman · 12-30-2004, 01:03 PM

Yeah, I have to say bringing Walker to the Mavs was one of the worst decisions ever.

And getting Terry is no consolation.

EricaLubarsky · 12-30-2004, 01:07 PM

Big consolation for me. Doesnt make up for last year, but getting rid of a -23 for a +13.6 guy who is our second best +/- guy makes it up to me.

jibikao · 12-30-2004, 01:19 PM

Well, getting Terry is a much better option because Nash left.

We had Dirk last year. They brought in two PFs to steal Dirk's opportunities to shine. Ok, I am fine with Jamison actually because he is a good backup for Dirk, but not Walker.

It's just funny how Mavs has been making wrong decisions over and over again. Who wanted to have Walker on the team? Cuban??!!! Or Nelson???

This just shows management is REALLY important. Probably more important than how good the players are. Spurs has the best management. They will NEVER find a guy like Walker to steal Duncan's mins. They know which pieces they need: Duncan, Parker and Manu.

Mavs is now a lot more balanced but it is up to the coach to see how this team should play and grow.

Jimmy

dude1394 · 12-30-2004, 01:28 PM

I would say mostly cubes moves HOWEVER reading nellies opinions on raef this week makes me think he was pushing real hard to get rid of him. Maybe it was getting rid of raef/nve all along that was being done. It was done by wasting a year, but it was done.

kg_veteran · 12-30-2004, 02:17 PM

I can't remember if I saw these numbers here or elsewhere, but I think it's worth pointing out again.

Steve Nash's first two years here:

1998 31.7 mpg, 7.9 ppg, 5.5 apg, 36.3 FG%, 37.4 3P%, 82.6 FT%
1999 27.4 mpg, 8.6 ppg, 4.9 apg, 47.7 FG%, 40.3 3P%, 88.2 FT%

Jason Terry's numbers through 28 games in his first year here:

24.9 mpg, 9.5 ppg, 4.0 apg, 49.5 FG%, 41.0 3P%, 77.8 FT%

Jason Terry's numbers over the last 5 games (as a starter):

29.0 mpg, 12.2 ppg, 6.6 apg, 57.1 FG%, 42.9 3P%, 70.0 FT%

I'd say that anybody declaring Jason Terry a failure here should tap the breaks just a bit. If the Mavs will continue to start him, and encourage him to be more aggressive shooting the ball (as I discussed here), I think he's going to be a really nice fit in Dallas.

Dooby · 12-30-2004, 02:32 PM

I really would like to know what Terry's numbers would be like with 34 minutes a game, which is what Nash was averaging here. If you look at Terry's best year, it is very similar to Nash's best year (aside from maybe this year).
Terry 02-03: 38.0 mpg; 3.40 rpg; 7.4 apg; 17.2 ppg.
Nash 01-02 34.6 mpg; 3.10 rpg; 7.7 apg; 17.9 ppg.

Terry was getting 37-38 minutes a game in Atlanta. He's averaging 25 (!) right now. I really think it is a matter of time. Time in the sense that Terry could do better with more minutes. Time in the sense that Terry could do better with more time to work with his teammates in games in practice, i.e. chemistry.

EricaLubarsky · 12-30-2004, 02:33 PM

Again, KG comes out shooting with another awesome post.

kg_veteran · 12-30-2004, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Dooby
I really would like to know what Terry's numbers would be like with 34 minutes a game, which is what Nash was averaging here. If you look at Terry's best year, it is very similar to Nash's best year (aside from maybe this year).
Terry 02-03: 38.0 mpg; 3.40 rpg; 7.4 apg; 17.2 ppg.
Nash 01-02 34.6 mpg; 3.10 rpg; 7.7 apg; 17.9 ppg.

Honestly, I think we will see Terry playing more and more minutes as the season wears on. I expect 32 mpg, 14 ppg, 5-7 apg over the second half of the season, conservatively.

Quote:

I really think it is a matter of time. Time in the sense that Terry could do better with more minutes. Time in the sense that Terry could do better with more time to work with his teammates in games in practice, i.e. chemistry.

No question about it. Terry has really embraced the starting role, and his play is picking up in a big way.

One other note: As a starter, Terry is cranking out over 2 steals per game. Not too shabby.

FilthyFinMavs · 12-30-2004, 03:52 PM

I'd take Jason Terry and Alan Henderson any day of the week over Raef Lafrentz and Jiri Welsch.

Bayliss · 12-30-2004, 04:18 PM

Quote:

I'd take Jason Terry and Alan Henderson any day of the week over Raef Lafrentz and Jiri Welsch.

Me too. Alan Henderson is the type of guy that helps teams win championships. He won't ever be a stud. He won't ever demand big minutes, in fact, I doubt he would hold up if he got them. But he is the type of player that knows exactly what is expected of him on the court in his limited time. And it is based around being the "get your hands dirty" type of play. Half of the things he does for the Mavs don't even show up in the boxscore. And every championship team has had that type of guy. Kurt Rambis, Mark Madsen, Fred Roberts, Malik Rose, Ron Harper (post knee injury), Robert Horry.

And getting a decent point guard for a bloated contract was good too.

As for Terry, he was screwed over by Nelson. Nelson has finally seen the light and has given Terry the start plus more minutes. Now if only Nelson will give Harris all the PG minutes while Terry isn't on the floor....

FilthyFinMavs · 12-30-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

I'd take Jason Terry and Alan Henderson any day of the week over Raef Lafrentz and Jiri Welsch.

Me too. Alan Henderson is the type of guy that helps teams win championships. He won't ever be a stud. He won't ever demand big minutes, in fact, I doubt he would hold up if he got them. But he is the type of player that knows exactly what is expected of him on the court in his limited time. And it is based around being the "get your hands dirty" type of play. Half of the things he does for the Mavs don't even show up in the boxscore. And every championship team has had that type of guy. Kurt Rambis, Mark Madsen, Fred Roberts, Malik Rose, Ron Harper (post knee injury), Robert Horry.

And getting a decent point guard for a bloated contract was good too.

As for Terry, he was screwed over by Nelson. Nelson has finally seen the light and has given Terry the start plus more minutes. Now if only Nelson will give Harris all the PG minutes while Terry isn't on the floor....

I agree. I've become a fan of Henderson and while I was aware of what he was capable of in the past I didn't think he could still be that type of player with his recent battle with injuries but the guy looks just as good as he was when he was a Hawk averaging 12/8. He doesn't command many minutes like you stated but I think he is definately a piece of the puzzle we must have and I can't think of a better guy to bring in the game to back up Dirk or play minimal minutes beside Dirk.

At the beginning of the season I went into this season believing Terry was our starting point guard and when Nellie decided to play him behind the rookie I knew from that point that Harris didn't outplay him in training camp but Nellie wanted a gimmicky lineup and have Stack and Terry come off the bench for that spark. It's no surprise to me that we are currently 4-1 with Terry starting at point for us.

bernardos70 · 12-30-2004, 05:32 PM

No idea what Mavs management was thinking of when they brought Walker alone. It was apparent to me that it was Nelson's trade: for one, he wanted to get rid of Raef as can be deduced from his comments, like someone else pointed out. And then there's the point forward concept Nellie is so fond of. Sounds like a trade Nellie would do. Or at least, offer very little resistance to having it go through.

GP · 12-30-2004, 06:03 PM

I think they just panicked because of Raef's knee injury and made the deal just to get a healthy body. They should have just stopped after acquiring Jamison. However, this is just spilt milk. Hope they learn from their mistakes.

chumdawg · 12-30-2004, 11:18 PM

Interesting comments from Nellie in the Boston paper: link

Mavs defend 'Toine

The Mavericks made a big move before last season when they brought in Antoine Walker [news] in the LaFrentz trade. But the club eventually was willing to let him go for lesser value (though it did wind up getting Jason Terry and a first-round pick out of Atlanta).

While many around here are down on Walker, Nelson said, ``It wasn't all Antoine's fault. He's a good basketball player and I really like him a lot. . . . I do believe that if I would have played him at center from opening day and just take our chances with the fouls, we would have won a lot more games and been a better team at the end.

``That's what I should have done and I didn't, because I kept thinking he could be the point forward I've been looking for. He just couldn't do that for me. He wasn't consistent enough with his passing.''

Murphy3 · 12-30-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Interesting comments from Nellie in the Boston paper: link

Mavs defend 'Toine

The Mavericks made a big move before last season when they brought in Antoine Walker [news] in the LaFrentz trade. But the club eventually was willing to let him go for lesser value (though it did wind up getting Jason Terry and a first-round pick out of Atlanta).

While many around here are down on Walker, Nelson said, ``It wasn't all Antoine's fault. He's a good basketball player and I really like him a lot. . . . I do believe that if I would have played him at center from opening day and just take our chances with the fouls, we would have won a lot more games and been a better team at the end.

``That's what I should have done and I didn't, because I kept thinking he could be the point forward I've been looking for. He just couldn't do that for me. He wasn't consistent enough with his passing.''

Dear God, thank you. Nellie admitting that the point forward scheme involving Walker wasn't a good idea in a round about way.

Where's David and Poindexter when you need them? I'm sure they'd spin it some way, but there's just no spinning anymore.

bgantz · 12-31-2004, 12:49 AM

i didn't check this....but i'd like to see the number for devin harris' rookie season compared to nash's rookie season....or his first year in dallas for that matter, since harris is more likely to be the pg of the future instead of terry.

bgantz · 12-31-2004, 12:51 AM

the reason the pg situation is so intense compared to when nash first started, is that this team now is expected to contend, or at least be good. the mavericks were still bad with nash's first years, so harris is getting a shorter leash.

dude1394 · 12-31-2004, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: chumdawg
Interesting comments from Nellie in the Boston paper: link

Mavs defend 'Toine

While many around here are down on Walker, Nelson said, ``It wasn't all Antoine's fault. He's a good basketball player and I really like him a lot. . . .

Quote:

I do believe that if I would have played him at center from opening day and just take our chances with the fouls, we would have won a lot more games and been a better team at the end.

``That's what I should have done and I didn't, because I kept thinking he could be the point forward I've been looking for. He just couldn't do that for me. He wasn't consistent enough with his passing.''

Dear lord in heaven.. That MAY be the most idiotic statement I've ever heard a basketball coach make. How in the world could he expect walker to play against duncan/shaq/kg hell even damp in the post. What a moronic statement.

If he thinks so little of the center position AGAIN why get rid of raef or not play shawn!!! They both shoot better from 3pt land, ft's, rebound and block shots. I just can't believe how ignorant this statement is.

If walker had been on the team again I had told cubes he could eat my tickets. Geezzzz what a waste of a year.

alby · 12-31-2004, 04:28 AM

waste of a year yes. but get over it, its done with =] its time to ring in 2005 where the mavs have 4/5 seven footers on the team now =]

DallasFan1980 · 01-01-2005, 06:25 PM

If you had actually watched the Hawks play you would know why his plus/minus is out of whack.Al Harrington has nearly as bad a plus/minus and he spends a lot of his time playing in garbage time. When the team is down by 20 plus points Al is in the game and Walker is on the bench and the game is vitually over. The Hawks have Al Harrington playing against the other teams 3rd stringers with some of the Hawks second stringers and the score gets closer. This however isn't what is happening when the game is actually still in contention.
But why let facts get in the way of your biased hatred.

DallasFan1980 · 01-01-2005, 06:25 PM

If you had actually watched the Hawks play you would know why his plus/minus is out of whack.Al Harrington has nearly as bad a plus/minus and he spends a lot of his time playing in garbage time. When the team is down by 20 plus points Al is in the game and Walker is on the bench and the game is vitually over. The Hawks have Al Harrington playing against the other teams 3rd stringers with some of the Hawks second stringers and the score gets closer. This however isn't what is happening when the game is actually still in contention.
But why let facts get in the way of your biased hatred.

jayC · 01-01-2005, 08:24 PM

Walker takes the most three pointers on the team and most shots period. He shoots in the neighborhood of 40 percent from the field and 32 percent from downtown. He doesn't play within himself which ultimately hurts the team. And I would rather see more of Defensive force Josh Smith who had 10 block shots a week ago. Smith is going to be special someday.

jayC · 01-01-2005, 08:24 PM

Walker takes the most three pointers on the team and most shots period. He shoots in the neighborhood of 40 percent from the field and 32 percent from downtown. He doesn't play within himself which ultimately hurts the team. And I would rather see more of Defensive force Josh Smith who had 10 block shots a week ago. Smith is going to be special someday.

grndmstr_c · 01-01-2005, 08:26 PM

It's not like having a bad +/- is a new experience for Toine.

grndmstr_c · 01-01-2005, 08:26 PM

It's not like having a bad +/- is a new experience for Toine.

rakesh.s · 01-01-2005, 09:29 PM

i'm just wondering who will sign antoine walker when his contract is up at the end of this year..the hawks don't want him for sure..

could glenn robinson get traded back to the hawks for walker [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

the bobcats didn't even want him in the expansion draft did they??

he could be overpaid and end up in new orleans who will be mediocre for years to come with or without him. hmm perhaps even new jersey?

rakesh.s · 01-01-2005, 09:29 PM

i'm just wondering who will sign antoine walker when his contract is up at the end of this year..the hawks don't want him for sure..

could glenn robinson get traded back to the hawks for walker [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

the bobcats didn't even want him in the expansion draft did they??

he could be overpaid and end up in new orleans who will be mediocre for years to come with or without him. hmm perhaps even new jersey?

dude1394 · 01-01-2005, 09:45 PM

I can't see him being signed for more than the league minimum. I'd rather have jim jackson than walker.

dude1394 · 01-01-2005, 09:45 PM

I can't see him being signed for more than the league minimum. I'd rather have jim jackson than walker.

dirno2000 · 01-01-2005, 10:14 PM

He'll probably get the MLE. It'll be a rude awakning for him.

dirno2000 · 01-01-2005, 10:14 PM

He'll probably get the MLE. It'll be a rude awakning for him.

dude1394 · 01-02-2005, 12:39 AM

It certainley will.

dude1394 · 01-02-2005, 12:39 AM

It certainley will.

endtroducing · 01-02-2005, 12:42 AM

NJ seems most likely

endtroducing · 01-02-2005, 12:42 AM

NJ seems most likely

EricaLubarsky · 01-02-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
He'll probably get the MLE. It'll be a rude awakning for him.

I certainly hope he'll find a way to support his family on that.

EricaLubarsky · 01-02-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
He'll probably get the MLE. It'll be a rude awakning for him.

I certainly hope he'll find a way to support his family on that.

DallasFan1980 · 01-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Thank you for proving my point. Every single one of you who said Walker will end up in New Jersey are clueless.lol

DallasFan1980 · 01-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Thank you for proving my point. Every single one of you who said Walker will end up in New Jersey are clueless.lol