"Heat in serious talks to trade Shaq" - Miami Herald - Mavericks Mentioned - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

RizAmlani · 02-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Heat in serious talks to trade Shaq
BY BARRY JACKSON
The Heat has told center Shaquille O'Neal's representation that it is talking about trading him and he should be prepared for the possibility of a deal, according to two officials close to the situation. Phoenix has discussed sending forward Shawn Marion and point guard Marcus Banks to the Heat in return for O'Neal.

Asked for confirmation, one of O'Neal's representatives said O'Neal has been made aware that discussions with Phoenix are serious and ongoing, but that a deal was not definite.

Dallas also has been mentioned as a potential destination, though the Heat had not immediately informed O'Neal of that possibility.

O'Neal, 35, was shocked by the turn of events, an associate said. O'Neal helped lead the Heat to the 2005-06 championship, but Miami has struggled since, losing in the first round of the playoffs last season and opening this season with a league-worst 9-37 record.

After this season, Marion can opt out of the last year of his contract worth $17.1 million. If Marion opts out, trading O'Neal would give the Heat substantial salary cap space this offseason, when potential free agents include Gilbert Arenas, Baron Davis, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Ron Artest and Corey Maggette.

Marion, 29, is a four-time All-Star and considered one of the NBA's most athletic small forwards. Marion, 6-7, is averaging 15.8 points and 9.9 rebounds.

Banks, 26, is averaging 5.2 points and 1.0 assists. After this season, he has three years left on his contract worth a total of $13.4 million.

O'Neal, who has been out with a hip injury, has two years left on his contract after this season. He will be paid $20 million each of the next two seasons.

On Tuesday, coach Pat Riley said O'Neal was scheduled to have a magnetic resonance imaging exam on his ailing left hip, which has kept him out the past six games.

''We just want to back it up and see, after two weeks, what it shows,'' Riley said.

Riley gave no indication as to when O'Neal would return to the lineup. Riley said O'Neal must strengthen his legs before returning to action, and that the center will be one of six players to miss Wednesday's game at Detroit.

Heat officials were on their way to Detroit and could not be reached for comment.

Mostly about the Suns sending Marion and scraps for Shaq but Dallas is mentioned so I thought it would be worth a post.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Dallas also has been mentioned as a potential destination

Find me ONE trade rumor this season that doesn't contain that line...

(and Gasol doesn't count because everything happened too fast for any rumors to develop...)

ddh33 · 02-05-2008, 08:29 PM

Dallas is mentioned in everything. I like this one though.

First of all, Shaq is still a huge post presence. He'll be one forever because of his size and ability. Now, can you even begin to imagine this team with a legit post presence? Think of all of the Devin Harris drives that would end in Shaq dunks. Think of the Dirk jumpers that would be even more open because of Shaq...

Granted, Shaq is a huge salary. He's also a legitimate health concern. For those reasons, i would hope that the talent trade off wouldn't be as steep.

I would think about dealing Damp, since he won't be needed with Shaq here. That would also allow you to keep Diop as the defensive minded sub for Shaq to gobble up those minutes while he's out.

After Damp, you still need to get 7 more million. I would think about adding Jet and asking for Dorrell Wright or Dequan Cook. I can't see the Heat going for that, so I would try to counter with Devean George and enough stuff to get me to 7 million. I would even take Smush Parker off their hands for the trouble. That should appeal to them...

All I know is that Shaq for 25 minutes a game would improve this team more than any available player.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

I would think about dealing Damp, since he won't be needed with Shaq here.

Plus, Snack & Ericka on the same team might not be the best chemistry move...

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

Dallas is mentioned in everything. I like this one though.

First of all, Shaq is still a huge post presence. He'll be one forever because of his size and ability. Now, can you even begin to imagine this team with a legit post presence? Think of all of the Devin Harris drives that would end in Shaq dunks. Think of the Dirk jumpers that would be even more open because of Shaq...

Granted, Shaq is a huge salary. He's also a legitimate health concern. For those reasons, i would hope that the talent trade off wouldn't be as steep.

I would think about dealing Damp, since he won't be needed with Shaq here. That would also allow you to keep Diop as the defensive minded sub for Shaq to gobble up those minutes while he's out.

After Damp, you still need to get 7 more million. I would think about adding Jet and asking for Dorrell Wright or Dequan Cook. I can't see the Heat going for that, so I would try to counter with Devean George and enough stuff to get me to 7 million. I would even take Smush Parker off their hands for the trouble. That should appeal to them...

All I know is that Shaq for 25 minutes a game would improve this team more than any available player.

I don't know if I agree with Damp not being needed with Shaq here. First, I think Shaq is at a point where he shouldn't be playing much more than 30 minutes a game to preserve his health for the postseason when you really need him. If you played him 28 minutes, that means there are still 20 minutes for Damp. Second, I think Damp provides a contrasting skill set. I'd take Damp's defense over that of Diop any day of the week, and he provides a nice contrast to the offense that Shaq would give you. Maybe Damp isn't an athletic enough contrast for you, but I still think concerns about Damp's troubles with athletic players gets overblown a little bit. He seems to keep his position pretty well going up against them one on one whenever I watch. Part of his problem is that he does get into foul trouble (some of that is bad reputation with the refs), but that problem will be a lot less of one if you have another worthwhile center to go to. And if you really want an athletic center, well you can go small ball with Bass for a while. But that's not something I would really recommend.

And I don't know why we would give up Damp. First of all, Miami should be looking to shed salary cap space. Why trade one overpaid center for another overpaid center with a smaller contract? Also, Damp is no spring chicken. He doesn't really help them in any way in the rebuilding process. Third, Miami has no right to be getting picky about what they get back in a trade. That Shaq contract is one of the worst in sports. They should be thankful that someone is willing to take it off their hands, and let that be that. Honestly, I think they would be lucky to get much more than what Memphis got in the Gasol deal.

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 09:28 PM

Wow, so this is the second journalist mentioning Marion? Is there any way that there is some truth to this rumor? Are the Suns that tired of Marion that they are looking to dump him for Shaq? I don't really get that deal.

ddh33 · 02-05-2008, 09:29 PM

Marc Stein says the talks are legit.

As for why I would keep Diop over Damp, it's simply economics. I wouldn't want to pay 10 million a year for a backup center when I could pay 2-5 million and have almost the same thing.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Wow, so this is the second journalist mentioning Marion? Is there any way that there is some truth to this rumor?

Probably just another lazy sports writer regurgitating rumor as fact...

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 09:39 PM

Well, that's only if you consider Diop and Damp the same thing. I honestly like what Damp gives you on the defensive end a lot more than Diop but to each, their own. I guess you can make a case that Cubes doesn't want to spend 30 million (60 million if you count the luxury tax) on centers. I'd buy that, but I do wish that he'd reconsider that notion. I know I'm in the minority, but I really like Damp and some of the things that he provides the team. I think he can still provide a lot, even with a guy like Shaq on the team. With Diop he seems to provide overagressive defense. That can be an asset on help defense, but sometimes leave you lacking in one-on-one post defense. I think Damp is much better than Diop in one-on-one situations while still providing very solid help defense.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Has anybody actually seen Shaq play this season? (I haven't...)

How much step has he lost? Would he actually help this team or would we be throwing away the rest of Dirk's prime on a lousy contract?

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 09:41 PM

Man, if the Suns rumors are true, I say your best approach is to sit back and enjoy watching Phoenix blow up their team in an attempt to get Shaq. You won't be able to outbid Phoenix if Marion is on the table, and you get to watch a rival destroy themselves in the process! Sounds like win-win to me.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Man, if the Suns rumors are true, I say your best approach is to sit back and enjoy watching Phoenix blow up their team in an attempt to get Shaq. You won't be able to outbid Phoenix if Marion is on the table, and you get to watch a rival destroy themselves in the process! Sounds like win-win to me.

It certainly helps even out the west after the Gasol deal...

ddh33 · 02-05-2008, 09:43 PM

I like Damp too. I think Damp is a better player than Diop. But like I said, economics have something to do with it.

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Has anybody actually seen Shaq play this season? (I haven't...)

How much step has he lost? Would he actually help this team or would we be throwing away the rest of Dirk's prime on a lousy contract?

You can tell he doesn't have the same strength and quickness as in his prime. He doesn't overpower opponents with his athleticism and strength these days. He's picked up a decent fundamental postgame to make up for it though. That would be a nice asset. I just wouldn't start trading the farm for it. Not mention, with the dire straights that Miami is in, I wouldn't think that you would need to trade the farm to get it. I would think the Van Horn contract (and change) would be enough to get the job done, but if that Marion deal is legit I guess I could be wrong on that one.

jayC · 02-05-2008, 09:59 PM

No one heard about Gasol to the Lakers. The Kidd trade to the Mavericks would have happened already. I just don't see that trade as a no brainer.

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayC

If you hear about it in the papers it won't happen. I would bet on a trade happening that no one has heard about.

It does always seem that way. In fact, I can't remember a single trade happening that was reported more than a day in advance. The trades that do happen always seem to blindside you.

dude1394 · 02-05-2008, 10:16 PM

Either center could go and you'd be fine with snack here. Diop could go or damp could go. Snack could play his 25 mpg and the other center gets 10 or so and dirk gets the other.

Oh what a joy it would be to have someone in the post who could catch, finish, pass and dribble the ball.

I'm not the biggest snack fan in the world but it's why I'm still so steamed about us not getting Gasol, he's be just fine as well.

chumdawg · 02-05-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It does always seem that way. In fact, I can't remember a single trade happening that was reported more than a day in advance. The trades that do happen always seem to blindside you.

Actually, I think that's changing. I'm hardpressed right now to give you examples off the top of my head, but my sense is that these days the information flows much more readily.

Janett_Reno · 02-05-2008, 10:22 PM

He could probably help us no doubt and i do want a title. It is just a shame that if we get a Shaq and we did win a title, "headlines would be" Shaq brings titles to Lakers, Shaq brings a title to Miami and Shaq brings a title to Dallas. No matter how he does, if we win it would be because of the superstar Shaq and all our role players under him.

If we win a title, i am fine who gets the credit in the end. He would help us and i think more so than Phx because they run it up and down so fast. Harris would give shaq so many dunks.

It is interesting times now with alot of trade talks going on.

vjz · 02-05-2008, 10:22 PM

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/...las-over-shaq/

We're all trying to find an explanation for the Miami Herald's improbable report that the Heat are on the precipice of sending Shaquille O'Neal to Phoenix for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks. Here's a theory, with some anchor in the Herald's report: Phoenix is messing with Dallas.

Since Shaq was first hoisted on the trade buffet by Los Angeles in 2004, Dallas has been a key figure in any/all rumors. Maybe it's Mark Cuban's deep pockets, maybe it's the eternal thirst to hold a matchup advantage with San Antonio... but Dallas always gets connected to Shaq. And guess what? The Herald's Barry Jackson mentions the Mavericks:

Dallas also has been mentioned as a potential destination, though the Heat had not immediately informed O'Neal of that possibility.

So here's my theory: Phoenix wants to a) drive the price of Shaq up, or b) fright Dallas into a rash move for Big Aristotle. Because seriously, Shaq in Phoenix makes no sense. Shaq in Dallas... for say, Jerry Stackhouse, Erick Dampier and Devean George? Dallas plays a half-court game, with little systemic ball movement and lots of slow structure.

Shaq's overpriced for his production in any locale. But the Mavericks could likely squeeze the most out of him while absorbing the financial repercussions. It doesn't mean a trade makes sense, but it's worth keeping in mind once someone debunks these Phoenix rumors.

chumdawg · 02-05-2008, 10:25 PM

You know, I thought about that too. It could be payback for the KG thing.

Tokey41 · 02-05-2008, 10:48 PM

They call that screwing? If they pulled the trigger on that trade they would be screwing themselves, we shouldn't be upping our offer for Shaq because of that (assuming such an offer exists).

FINtastic · 02-05-2008, 10:48 PM

If I'm Dallas, I call Phoenix's bluff and keep doing what I'm doing. Seriously, if I'm Donnie or Cubes, Phoenix's offer doesn't make me blink. Shaq is one of those players that would be nice to add at the right price. Marion is not the right price. Let Phoenix do the deal or wait for Miami to come running to you when they find out Phoenix is bluffing.

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If I'm Dallas, I call Phoenix's bluff and keep doing what I'm doing. Seriously, if I'm Donnie or Cubes, Phoenix's offer doesn't make me blink. Shaq is one of those players that would be nice to add at the right price. Marion is not the right price. Let Phoenix do the deal or wait for Miami to come running to you when they find out Phoenix is bluffing.

I bet you play some mean Hold 'Em...

jthig32 · 02-05-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If I'm Dallas, I call Phoenix's bluff and keep doing what I'm doing. Seriously, if I'm Donnie or Cubes, Phoenix's offer doesn't make me blink. Shaq is one of those players that would be nice to add at the right price. Marion is not the right price. Let Phoenix do the deal or wait for Miami to come running to you when they find out Phoenix is bluffing.

Totally agree. Phoenix trading Marion for Shaq would make me almost as happy as us getting Shaq for a low price. Let 'em have him if that' what they want.

And if they're bluffing, we'll find out soon enough.

kg_veteran · 02-05-2008, 11:03 PM

This is a win-win scenario for Dallas, IMO.

kg_veteran · 02-05-2008, 11:05 PM

I did find the part about Marion opting out humorous, though. Anybody who thinks that Marion is going to opt out of that deal is absolutely nuts. He's making the MAXIMUM allowed by the salary cap. No one, and I mean NO ONE would pay him that on the open market. He's not a max player. Heck, he's not even an All-Star!

DLord · 02-05-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vjz

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/...las-over-shaq/

We're all trying to find an explanation for the Miami Herald's improbable report that the Heat are on the precipice of sending Shaquille O'Neal to Phoenix for Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks. Here's a theory, with some anchor in the Herald's report: Phoenix is messing with Dallas.

Since Shaq was first hoisted on the trade buffet by Los Angeles in 2004, Dallas has been a key figure in any/all rumors. Maybe it's Mark Cuban's deep pockets, maybe it's the eternal thirst to hold a matchup advantage with San Antonio... but Dallas always gets connected to Shaq. And guess what? The Herald's Barry Jackson mentions the Mavericks:

Dallas also has been mentioned as a potential destination, though the Heat had not immediately informed O'Neal of that possibility.

So here's my theory: Phoenix wants to a) drive the price of Shaq up, or b) fright Dallas into a rash move for Big Aristotle. Because seriously, Shaq in Phoenix makes no sense. Shaq in Dallas... for say, Jerry Stackhouse, Erick Dampier and Devean George? Dallas plays a half-court game, with little systemic ball movement and lots of slow structure.

Shaq's overpriced for his production in any locale. But the Mavericks could likely squeeze the most out of him while absorbing the financial repercussions. It doesn't mean a trade makes sense, but it's worth keeping in mind once someone debunks these Phoenix rumors.

In lots of circumstances, that scenario could be plausible. But in this one, I don't think it's likely in the least.

Why? Because they told Shaq. The reporter got the story, and the papers' fact checkers called Shaq's reps who said, "Yes, Shaq has indeed been informed he may get traded, and he's pissed." Independent verification.

And although Miami undoubtedly wants to drive the price up, they aren't going to tell their star player, "You are close to being traded and we don't want you to be shocked, so here's a heads up" unless something is getting real close to happening.

That doesn't mean this is a done deal, or that it's going to happen without a doubt. But it tells me that the idea is almost certainly genuine not fake. (And from a few whispers I've heard - which I don't know whether to trust or not - this deal is being driven by Kerr who wants a team that can win a title, requiring a bit of alteration from run-n-gun to something a bit more traditional. Shaq would be the C instead of Amare, and Amare would be the PF instead of Marion, and all the perimeter gunners would stay the same.)

Underdog · 02-05-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

And from a few whispers I've heard - which I don't know whether to trust or not - this deal is being driven by Kerr who wants a team that can win a title, requiring a bit of alteration from run-n-gun to something a bit more traditional.

If there's any truth to this, I'll bet it's a knee-jerk reaction to the Gasol trade...

craggmac · 02-05-2008, 11:22 PM

Finally, a trade worth talking about. Now we're talking about getting a player in the position that has needed serious help for years!

RizAmlani · 02-05-2008, 11:58 PM

Ric Bucher reporting that Shaq will be traveling to Phoenix tomorrow morning for a physical.

ddh33 · 02-06-2008, 12:04 AM

Hey, as tempting as it might have been to have Shaq in Dallas, I wouldn't give up a Marion type player for him. And I don't think he's a great fit in Phoenix. Fine by me.

I just hope the Mavs don't make a panic trade like this.

chumdawg · 02-06-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddh33

Hey, as tempting as it might have been to have Shaq in Dallas, I wouldn't give up a Marion type player for him. And I don't think he's a great fit in Phoenix. Fine by me.

I just hope the Mavs don't make a panic trade like this.

I would give the Suns more credit than to call it a "panic trade." In fact, I would imagine that they have had it in mind since well before the Gasol trade, wouldn't you?

vjz · 02-06-2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLord

And from a few whispers I've heard - which I don't know whether to trust or not - this deal is being driven by Kerr who wants a team that can win a title, requiring a bit of alteration from run-n-gun to something a bit more traditional.

Interesting.

Kerr realizes that the current Suns team will find it very, very hard to beat the Spurs in 7 games. They match-up so badly with the Spurs, they couldn't win at home without Parker playing. And the Spurs were on a 3 game losing streak.

So, wow... this may really happen!

nikeball · 02-06-2008, 12:54 AM

Done deal

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns

Suns, Heat agree to Shaq trade
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
February 5, 2008

No longer confident they can win a championship with their current roster, the Phoenix Suns have agreed to a blockbuster trade that will bring them Shaquille O'Neal, pending results of a physical, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said Tuesday.

O'Neal will travel to Phoenix aboard a private plane, the source said, to undergo an MRI on his ailing left hip Wednesday. If he passes the physical, the Suns will complete the trade by sending Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat.

The Miami Herald first reported the Suns and Heat were in serious discussions regarding the trade.

Johnny Ludden is the NBA editor for Yahoo! Sports. Send Johnny a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

pkdumas · 02-06-2008, 02:45 AM

If this is true, the Suns are screwed. They will have lost their second best player and their identity. The Lakers.. those guys are becoming scary.

cjbcool · 02-06-2008, 05:07 AM

The Suns are in that win now, we have to beat LA mode.
They will move Amare back to the 4 and have Shaq control the middle. Shaq may want to win one more Title before he hangs it up. True point guards are a Centers dream. This is a temporary fix for both parties. The heat meanwhile are the real winners. The heat can win and lose with Shaq so he has not been a difference maker. The Matrix will breathe some life back into this franchise, but for how long? They have put them selves in a good position Draft wise. It will be interesting to see what they do.

Underdog · 02-06-2008, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjbcool

The heat meanwhile are the real winners. The heat can win and lose with Shaq so he has not been a difference maker. The Matrix will breathe some life back into this franchise, but for how long? They have put them selves in a good position Draft wise. It will be interesting to see what they do.

I totally agree with you here - Miami comes out of this much better in the end... Marion & Wade are a pretty sick combination, ESPECIALLY when you pair them with the high lottery pick they'll get after this season (I'm sure they'll go after a center in the draft).... Not to mention that if Marion was an All-Star in the West, then he'll totally dominate in the East...

cjbcool · 02-06-2008, 05:31 AM

They pick high enough to get any Center in the Draft.
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=32227

Blount wasn't horrible in replacement time, but he is clearly a back up. Have not seen Baron play this year so I don't know what he has. Depth and a good Center and they should be back in the Eastern hunt next year.
On paper they would be the third best team in the Conference.

cjbcool · 02-06-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkdumas

If this is true, the Suns are screwed. They will have lost their second best player and their identity. The Lakers.. those guys are becoming scary.

Shawn Marion is a good player. He plays great Defense. He has a good mid range. Can knock down the long ball. But if you look at the personnel, really half the team are Small Forwards. They still have Grant Hill, Alando Tucker, and even Boris Diaw. You now have Amare and Brian Skinner as your power forwards.
Side note: Boris has played the 3, 4, and 5 position. He is not that big at 6'8 235, but he can play the game. A smart basketball player can find ways to beat the more physical or faster opponents.