Jazz for real?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

Chum, you do know that there is a "have fun" element to being a fan right? All you do is look for the bad in things.

Oh, goodness, do I ever. In fact, I talked today with a guy who is sort of a mentor of mine, and who predates me in terms of Mavericks fandom. We were talking about Nellie at Golden State. He said that he would be happy to trade a chance at an NBA title for regular seasons year in and year out that were fun to watch and follow.

And of course, I fully agreed. You are quite right, FFO. There is a "have fun" element to being a fan, which cannot be substituted for. I think you have cut right to the heart of the matter.

[u2sarajevo]

A bit off topic here.... but chum... have you forgiven Jerry Jones for firing the great Tom Landry? That might be different though since he got us 3 Super Bowls.

Is that what it would take to turn you back around? Championships?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Sorry chum, I just can't share your view on the Jazz. Just so we're all clear, what does everyone mean by "for real?" If by "for real" we mean playoffs, then yes, the Jazz are without question a playoff team and will almost certainly win that pathetic division of theirs. However, if "for real" means championship contenders, then no, I don't buy it.

If I had to place them somewhere in terms of who the best teams are, I'd say they fall somewhere below the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets, and above the Clippers.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Sorry chum, I just can't share your view on the Jazz. Just so we're all clear, what does everyone mean by "for real?" If by "for real" we mean playoffs, then yes, the Jazz are without question a playoff team and will almost certainly win that pathetic division of theirs. However, if "for real" means championship contenders, then no, I don't buy it.

If I had to place them somewhere in terms of who the best teams are, I'd say they fall somewhere below the Mavs, Spurs, and Rockets, and above the Clippers.

Which means that they could beat aby of those teams..with a little luck.

IMO Miami was not a better team than us last year....but they beat us....and they beat Detroit

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

A bit off topic here.... but chum... have you forgiven Jerry Jones for firing the great Tom Landry? That might be different though since he got us 3 Super Bowls.

Is that what it would take to turn you back around? Championships?

Good question, especially since I have recently wondered that very thing. I never blamed Jones one bit for going in a different direction at head coach. Perhaps it was because I was too young to apprciate Landry's great work. But more likely it was because the Cowboys were more or less at rock bottom when Jones took the reins.

I wonder if the comparison was legit, but I honestly think it's not, because while the Cowboys were bad and getting worse when Jones took over, the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Good question, especially since I have recently wondered that very thing. I never blamed Jones one bit for going in a different direction at head coach. Perhaps it was because I was too young to apprciate Landry's great work. But more likely it was because the Cowboys were more or less at rock bottom when Jones took the reins.

I wonder if the comparison was legit, but I honestly think it's not, because while the Cowboys were bad and getting worse when Jones took over, the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.

I believe they're still on that "rise" regardless of his meddling. Who knows if we would have gotten to the finals without damp, heaven knows we never got there with nash (nash still hasn't gotten there).

[Dirkadirkastan]

So the Mavs are pretenders because they didn't win the playoffs, but the Jazz are contenders because they didn't MAKE the playoffs? What?

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

So the Mavs are pretenders because they didn't win the playoffs, but the Jazz are contenders because they didn't MAKE the playoffs? What?

Who said the mavs are pretenders??

Jazz are for reall though....the excuses that people are trying to come up with to say that the Jazz are not for reall are the same excuses that they have been trying to come up with for the Mavs the last 2 years.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Who said the mavs are pretenders??

Chum did.

[some-dude]

Lemme just say this...

They got a great pg, a great coach, the mvp so far (carlos boozer) and if i remember last time they had a combination like that they went to the finals...

Except now they have players like Memo Okur and Kirilenko to go around them instead of Ostertag and Bryon Russell.

[chumdawg]

Utah is a good, good basketball team. The Mavs are good, too. They will be better as they go along if Cuban will keep his fat nose out of the huddle.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Which means that they could beat aby of those teams..with a little luck.

IMO Miami was not a better team than us last year....but they beat us....and they beat Detroit

It had nothing to do with luck. Two words. Steve Javie.

Besides, IMO, Miami was LIGHT YEARS better than Detroit last year. It just took Miami the first half the season to realize that.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

the Mavs were in the midst of a mercurial rise when Cuban started his meddling.

I can't imagine what you're talking about... Steve Nash teams win regular season games.. not meaningful playoff games. I'd go to war with a guy like Erick Dampier with the championship on the line before I'd want Nash back at the point.

And I don't get how Cuban stopped our "mercurial rise" if the "meddling" he did got us to the NBA Finals... dumping old man Nash was the right move, like it or not.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I can't imagine what you're talking about... Steve Nash teams win regular season games.. not meaningful playoff games. I'd go to war with a guy like Erick Dampier with the championship on the line before I'd want Nash back at the point.

And I don't get how Cuban stopped our "mercurial rise" if the "meddling" he did got us to the NBA Finals... dumping old man Nash was the right move, like it or not.

Sorry, I don't fully agree with Chum on this, but I disagree with both these statements.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Sorry, I don't fully agree with Chum on this, but I disagree with both these statements.

I'm sorry that we disagree then.. but in a league where offensive stars are a dime a dozen (at least in my opinion), and given that we already have a clear-cut #1 option that can create his shot in any situation that can be presented, I'd rather have a defensive stud patrolling the paint that is going to block at least a shot per game and grab a bucketload of rebounds for us..

That's just my personal philosophy, however.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I'm sorry that we disagree then.. but in a league where offensive stars are a dime a dozen (at least in my opinion), and given that we already have a clear-cut #1 option that can create his shot in any situation that can be presented, I'd rather have a defensive stud patrolling the paint that is going to block at least a shot per game and grab a bucketload of rebounds for us..

That's just my personal philosophy, however.

I'd rather have another MVP caliber player that can always get the offense going and set the pace of the game when we already have a defensive minded center that can block at least a shot a game.

[birdsanctuary]

10 and 1
5 Road Games total (3 Road Games vs. the East 1 Game vs NJ was a loss)

December looks like a bear with 5 road games in a row then Clips and SA

I think their true colors will show after December. I think the Jazz are just off to hot start.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by some-dude

Lemme just say this...

They got a great pg, a great coach, the mvp so far (carlos boozer) and if i remember last time they had a combination like that they went to the finals...

Except now they have players like Memo Okur and Kirilenko to go around them instead of Ostertag and Bryon Russell.

Great coach - check
Great pg - i think he's definitely just going to get better. Big UIllinois Fan here and he was lots of fun to watch - just got better every year. Aside from his pg skills, he also plays very good D and has a big body. Just a smart smart player.
MVP so far - uh, Boozer is having a great year and the Jazz are doing great but dunno about MVP. but since his team is doing well and he's got the best stats on their team but i doubt it.

Anyone been tracking Millsap? in limited time he's put up some AK-esque numbers with boards, blocks, steals, assists... haven't seen him play yet.

[MavsX]

this thread makes my head uneasy

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

Great coach - check
Great pg - i think he's definitely just going to get better. Big UIllinois Fan here and he was lots of fun to watch - just got better every year. Aside from his pg skills, he also plays very good D and has a big body. Just a smart smart player.
MVP so far - uh, Boozer is having a great year and the Jazz are doing great but dunno about MVP. but since his team is doing well and he's got the best stats on their team but i doubt it.

Anyone been tracking Millsap? in limited time he's put up some AK-esque numbers with boards, blocks, steals, assists... haven't seen him play yet.

Yee i noticed that Millsap in every game seemd to have like 15 or 20 points in like 10 min (overexaggeration) but u know what i mean

and DONT FORGET AK47 is still their most talented player on there....

[some-dude]

11-1.

They just came back from down 21 points late in the third @ Sacramento to win the game by 9.. ...Williams and Boozer look like one of the leagues best 1-2 punch!

[EricaLubarsky]

good lord nearly 40 points in the 4th quarter and outscored the Kings by 22?

Deron with 20-7-13
Boozer with 32-13-5 and 2 blocks

[EricaLubarsky]

dub

[blahblehblah]

While the comeback and Boozers 32 13 and 5 on 14- 20 shooting (wow 14-20!!) was VERY VERY Impressive, THE most impressive thing was Ronnie Price doing his best "John starks DUNK over the bulls or Kevin Johnson DUNK over Hakeem" impersonation ON Boozer ! That dunk was SICK!

Regarding if the Jazz are for real? At the moment they are probably the best team in the NBA, with Boozer dominating the paint, Okur giving them great spacing and long range shooting from the 5 spot, Deron playing great at the point and athleticism and shooting from Fisher, harpring, Brewer, Milsap and Cj miles. All this with AK47 not playing all that great and recently injured.

[4cwebb]

Milsap has been playing very solid for the Jazz lately, and has been providing the type of spark (seemingly) which AK-47 gives them...I wonder how the minutes will work out between those two once AK-47 returns.

Even if the Jazz end up not "being for real" by the end of the year, it's fun to have a different team showcase it's abilities other than the "traditional" powers of the last few seasons, at least imho.

[jleefilled]

It looks like Utah is for real. Carlos Boozer looks a lot more -- what is the word -- sleeker than what I remember of him. I hope they stay healthy. They certainly are looking like a worthy contender to the Mavs. Both teams are young and growing...it would make for a fun rivalry just so long as they don't get in the way of the Mavs snagging one of those championship trophies.

[jleefilled]

From Marc Stein's weekend dime:

1. Utah's Deron Williams: I'll tell you who's not surprised by Williams' sudden leap into Chris Paul's class: Members of the Dallas Mavericks who played pick-up ball with Williams over the summer. They had the first glimpse of a sleeker, quicker scorer/playmaker who shows a greater willingness and ease getting into the paint than he ever displayed as a rookie. "You could see then that he was just going to go by people," says Mavs guard Jason Terry.

[Dortmund]

i hate DIRK and the MAVS!!!!
LONG LIVE KOBE BRYANT!!!!!!! THE KING IS BACK

[fluid.forty.one]

uhh...

[mqywaaah]

I think theyre about to lose tonight vs the Golden Bay boys.

[fluid.forty.one]

Boozer only has 4 points and they're losing in the 3rd to the Warriors.

[ty]

Originally Posted by Dortmund

i hate DIRK and the MAVS!!!!
LONG LIVE KOBE BRYANT!!!!!!! THE KING IS BACK

...an obvious idiot.

[jleefilled]

Leave it to Nellie to find a way to beat the Jazz, without Baron Davis no less.

[jleefilled]

Off topic:

Biedrens had 14 points, 17 boards, 5 blocks, 2 steals!

[chumdawg]

Biedrins is turning into a freaking Frankenstein.

If this game continues according to form, one has to ask the question: Who is more "for real," Jerry Sloan's Jazz or Don Nelson's Warriors?

Of course, the obvious answer is--as Deion Sanders used to say--"both."

[jleefilled]

I'm just amazed that Don Nelson can make a game plan to pull the pants down on the Jazz who have been literally unbeatable this year. Boozer, Kirilenko, and Okur combined for 12 points?

I really want Nellie to coach team USA in the next Olympics.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jleefilled

I'm just amazed that Don Nelson can make a game plan to pull the pants down on the Jazz who have been literally unbeatable this year. Boozer, Kirilenko, and Okur combined for 12 points?

I really want Nellie to coach team USA in the next Olympics.

That's the most genius idea I have heard in months. You, jleefilled, are a genius. Bring on the gold!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Nellie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Larry Brown

[nashtymavsfan13]

I went to the game tonight, some of my thoughts:

-I was thoroughly unimpressed by the Jazz as a whole, they seem sluggish and almost nonchalant. During their pregame warmups they seemed like they felt like they had the game already won.

-The Warriors looked very good tonight. Their defense was surprisingly good, they hustled well on both ends and looked like they wanted this game much more than the Jazz did.

-Biedrins is a beast, he looked very very good tonight. He had one possesion where he had two impressive blocks and looked very good on D. He rebounded well, attacked well on offense, and looked good on D. This young player is going to be good.

-I was very unimpressed with AK. He shot 2/11 and had a couple terrible TO's. Not a good game at all for him tonight.

-Monta Ellis did well, attacked well, and looked good on both ends of the floor. I'm still not convinced that he's THAT much better than Devin. Ellis took like 25 shots tonight and had the production I think Devin is easily capable of if he got the ball so much and got that many shots.

-Deron Williams is the real deal. His 14/8 tonight don't do him justice. He was easily the best player on the floor for the Jazz tonight. I like his court vision and shot recognition. He is going to be a very good player in this league.

-I was surprised at Boozer's stat line, he didn't look like he did that badly tonight. He did well on the boards. He didn't get the ball enough tonight and I think that was mostly the Warriors D. They sealed off the passing lanes well and Biedrins played him very tough.

Overall, nice game. The Warriors looked very very good, and I expected much more out of the Jazz.

[some-dude]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I went to the game tonight, some of my thoughts:

-I was thoroughly unimpressed by the Jazz as a whole, they seem sluggish and almost nonchalant. During their pregame warmups they seemed like they felt like they had the game already won.

-The Warriors looked very good tonight. Their defense was surprisingly good, they hustled well on both ends and looked like they wanted this game much more than the Jazz did.

-Biedrins is a beast, he looked very very good tonight. He had one possesion where he had two impressive blocks and looked very good on D. He rebounded well, attacked well on offense, and looked good on D. This young player is going to be good.

-I was very unimpressed with AK. He shot 2/11 and had a couple terrible TO's. Not a good game at all for him tonight.

-Monta Ellis did well, attacked well, and looked good on both ends of the floor. I'm still not convinced that he's THAT much better than Devin. Ellis took like 25 shots tonight and had the production I think Devin is easily capable of if he got the ball so much and got that many shots.

-Deron Williams is the real deal. His 14/8 tonight don't do him justice. He was easily the best player on the floor for the Jazz tonight. I like his court vision and shot recognition. He is going to be a very good player in this league.

-I was surprised at Boozer's stat line, he didn't look like he did that badly tonight. He did well on the boards. He didn't get the ball enough tonight and I think that was mostly the Warriors D. They sealed off the passing lanes well and Biedrins played him very tough.

Overall, nice game. The Warriors looked very very good, and I expected much more out of the Jazz.

Hey, I was at the game too...hey wait, weren't you sitting right next to me

Anyway, as for the game, the Warriors zone defense killed the Jazz. It was the first time they had really seen it all year and they werent able to adjust. Deron Williams didnt impress me all that much. He had a lot of lazy passes and didn't show up in the 4th like he usually does...most of his stats came in the 1st..and the Jazz lost that quarter 27-14.

AK seemed lost and Boozer and Memo were non-existant...only bright side for the Jazz was Millsap and Fisher.

As for the purpose of the thread, they are now 12-2 and they are for real despite this loss.