Opinion:"Dallas Mavericks: Time To Let Dirk Go"

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Too dumb to understand? I think that *you* don't understand what the title you wrote meant. When you say "Dallas Mavericks:", with the colon after Mavericks, you are saying that the Dallas Mavericks themselves say what comes next.

A) If you don't understand how to use certain punctuation/usage, you shouldn't use it.

B) If you don't understand how to use certain punctuation/usage, and someone calls you on it, you look like both an idiot and a douchebag when you when you ironically call that person "too dumb to understand" what you were getting at.

Get a better title, douchebag. Learn how to use a colon and semi-colon and a hyphen. Do that, and you won't make your editor do the job that you should be doing in the first place.

Damn, this is a hospitable bunch... Am I on a Boston or New York Board, or is this in fact a Dallas board?

I have misplaced my Pocket Book on English Grammar so please excuse my ignorance.

If the Title was "Dallas Mavericks: 'Time to Let Dirk Go'", I might agree with you. Of course, as I have already mentioned, I am not a grammar expert. I am an amateur writer that writes for fun, and thought I'd share something I wrote so that it could be put up for debate.

Some posters on the board have chosen to participate in the debate, and others have decided to argue the finer intricacies of grammar (I would love to spend a Saturday night with YOU GUYS!!!)

As far as my title in regards to the website I posted this on, it is correct. This is the format they use. Rather than titling the article "Time to Let Dirk Go", I title it "Dallas Mavericks: Time to Let Dirk Go". This helps people who are searching for articles on certain topics to more easily find those articles. The way I created my title is the way that several editors on the site have informed me to do so.

Please inform me of any inaccuracies in grammar for this post. I would hate to offend anyone.

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you are this thin-skinned...I think you should take up another hobby.

Again, I don't see how I'm being thin skinned... I'm not sulking in a corner crying. I just find it funny how pissed off people get over the smallest things. I've never called someone douchebag because I disagreed with the title of their thread. That, in my opinion, would make me the douchebag.

I looooove to debate, and I will get in a heated sports argument with anyone that will take the time to have one with me. But I myself don't see the need to get personal. But hey, thats just me!

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by robo98564

Of course, as I have already mentioned, I am not a grammar expert. I am an amateur writer that writes for fun, and thought I'd share something I wrote so that it could be put up for debate.

I get the sense that you are interested in something more than barber-shop sports talk. If that's the case, you should pay more careful attention to your craft.

Originally Posted by robo98564

Please inform me of any inaccuracies in grammar for this post. I would hate to offend anyone.

Don't hide behind "grammar." It's style that we are talking about. Do you really want to see the full list of things the editor would have to correct? It would be quite long.

[Flacolaco]

I added the "Opinion:" to the title of the thread.

If anyone has a problem with that, I'd be happy to discuss it with them in the morning.

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Show me the team that traded their superstar and came right back to contend. It doesn't count when you have two (shaq/kobe) for example.

I want dirk to play with the mavs as long as he wants to...period. You'd rather take that chance...well it's damn easy to take the chance when you have nothing to lose from it. No money, no headaches, nothing. You'll just turn the channel...the management, the rest of the players and the fans at the arena who would (maybe) have to watch a putrid team certainly have more invested than that.

Unfortunately, if we did this kind of trade, we wouldn't be coming right back to contend. This would be a heart transplant, not stitches. You don't just get rid of a guy like Dirk and have everything be rosey the next day.

It would be a rebuild.

And you make a great argument in that its easy for me, as a fan, to say this is the road we should take. I have far less invested in it than the people who are a part of the organization, no doubt.

And I can say that I, myself, wouldn't just stop watching the Mavs altogether, but there would certainly be many fans that do. Hell, many fans have already stopped watching the Mavs. Its sad, really.

What I want to know from you, being objective as you can... Without trading Dirk, where do you see this team going? Do you believe this team can win a championship in the next 5 years or so with Dirk as our center piece? If so, how do you see us being able to make the moves to get him the help with the current situation we are in?

If you cannot see us winning a championship with Dirk, why would you wish for him to end his career here? From a fan perspective, as a fan of Dirk, wouldn't you rather see him win a title with another team than not win a title at all?

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I get the sense that you are interested in something more than barber-shop sports talk. If that's the case, you should pay more careful attention to your craft.

Don't hide behind "grammar." It's style that we are talking about. Do you really want to see the full list of things the editor would have to correct? It would be quite long.

To your first point, I assume you think I am trying to make a career out of this? Well, you are wrong, this is simply a hobby, and I have only been doing it a month. I went to school for business, not journalism. And I have a career.

As to your second point, I hate grammar. That being said, if you are feeling froggy, feel free to send me that list. Every article I have written thus far has had to be edited for grammar and style. I welcome constructive criticism, and I actually appreciate it very much. As much as I still despise grammar, my grammar has improved in the month that I have been a part of that site. It is the criticism from fellow users that has helped me to become a better writer.

I'm assuming your offer to help me with the grammar was an empty one, but if not, send me a message and let me know where I screwed up.

Also, just a note... If you follow the link, the article has been edited several times since I originally posted it here. It would save you at least a little work haha

[craggmac]

Hey, the Celtics kept Paul Pierce on their sinking ship until that final moment and I'll bet both the Celtics and Paul Pierce are damn glad it happened the way it did. I bet you'll never hear either of them bitch about how bad it was before the trade (after the wait) again.

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I added the "Opinion:" to the title of the thread.

If anyone has a problem with that, I'd be happy to discuss it with them in the morning.

Thanks for the "fix" Flaco. I also appreciate the neg-rep.

Please let me also take this opportunity to apologize to everyone on this forum for pissing in their Cheerios. I did not mean for my thread to be so offensive... haha

[craggmac]

I'm going to blow myself up now.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by robo98564

To your first point, I assume you think I am trying to make a career out of this? Well, you are wrong, this is simply a hobby, and I have only been doing it a month. I went to school for business, not journalism. And I have a career.

As to your second point, I hate grammar. That being said, if you are feeling froggy, feel free to send me that list. Every article I have written thus far has had to be edited for grammar and style. I welcome constructive criticism, and I actually appreciate it very much. As much as I still despise grammar, my grammar has improved in the month that I have been a part of that site. It is the criticism from fellow users that has helped me to become a better writer.

I'm assuming your offer to help me with the grammar was an empty one, but if not, send me a message and let me know where I screwed up.

Also, just a note... If you follow the link, the article has been edited several times since I originally posted it here. It would save you at least a little work haha

I started on explaining the editing for your piece, but I lost interest about one-third through. Maybe you were right all along.

You still should try to do better, though.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by craggmac

Hey, the Celtics kept Paul Pierce on their sinking ship until that final moment and I'll bet both the Celtics and Paul Pierce are damn glad it happened the way it did. I bet you'll never hear either of them bitch about how bad it was before the trade (after the wait) again.

This is the most sensible paragraph in this thread.

[Re-Dirk-ulous]

If we trade Dirk, we're not gonna get anything good in return. It will be the worst end of the deal yet again. We won't get that one big time player that will make a difference in the team. We may get two, maybe three decent players in return, but then you're taking a risk. How many of those players will stay and integrate in to the system? Not only that, we'll be looking at years of mediocrity, trying to rebuild and get back to the top. We've seen this with many teams in the league before, and some never recovered. And with the Mavs FO track record, don't expect a sweet deal in return for Dirk...

Lets give Dirk at least one more year, one more run before we consider trading him.

Dirk Nowitzki is David Robinson. Robinson was considered by some a soft 7'1" center. He didn't win a championship until he became a "Robin" to Tim Duncan's "Batman". Robinson won an MVP award, but never won the Finals MVP. The same can happen to Dirk... Dirk needs to be the second option

[basketballgirl25]

Originally Posted by craggmac

Hey, the Celtics kept Paul Pierce on their sinking ship until that final moment and I'll bet both the Celtics and Paul Pierce are damn glad it happened the way it did. I bet you'll never hear either of them bitch about how bad it was before the trade (after the wait) again.

that was a good couple of years when they sucked and didn't make the playoffs

[Silk Smoov]

nm

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Go with Christ, brah...

NM

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Go with Christ, brah...

NM

[Silk Smoov]

NM

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

If we miss the playoffs at least we'll be in the lottery. Maybe we can get a high lottery pick and get a Hasheem Thabeet or James Harden.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

NM

Seriously - what's your obsession with New Mexico???

[Underdog]

I said it before and I'll say it again: Mark Cuban's ego cannot afford to let Dirk go... It would be admitting a much larger failure than the Kidd trade - it would be proof positive that he's a piss-poor franchise owner (and that might even be worse, in his mind, than losing on Dancing with the Stars!)

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by robo98564

Unfortunately, if we did this kind of trade, we wouldn't be coming right back to contend. This would be a heart transplant, not stitches. You don't just get rid of a guy like Dirk and have everything be rosey the next day.

It would be a rebuild.

And you make a great argument in that its easy for me, as a fan, to say this is the road we should take. I have far less invested in it than the people who are a part of the organization, no doubt.

And I can say that I, myself, wouldn't just stop watching the Mavs altogether, but there would certainly be many fans that do. Hell, many fans have already stopped watching the Mavs. Its sad, really.

What I want to know from you, being objective as you can... Without trading Dirk, where do you see this team going? Do you believe this team can win a championship in the next 5 years or so with Dirk as our center piece? If so, how do you see us being able to make the moves to get him the help with the current situation we are in?

If you cannot see us winning a championship with Dirk, why would you wish for him to end his career here? From a fan perspective, as a fan of Dirk, wouldn't you rather see him win a title with another team than not win a title at all?

Where would boston be if they had done what you are proposing and traded pierce? They stunk with him. You just don't trade those guys away imo...maybe ever until they just are not producing.

[darkwitzki]

Dirk is the Dallas Mavericks..

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

The Nets are one of the few teams to trade their best player and slightly improve. The Sixers sucked with Iverson and sucked after trading him. The Wolves sucked with KG the last few years and suck even worse without him. That's a good point about Pierce the Celtics kept him and struck it rich with Allen and KG and won it all. The Lakers kept Kobe and landed Gasol and they're a strong contender. I think it's best to keep Dirk and see who else you can get. You never know. But it seems like teams want to take advantage of the Mavs and not offer equal value for what they're offering so it won't be easy but you just never know.

[SMC0007]

Wow, a lil harsh on this dood IMO. I thought in general it was a cool read. I agree with some of this too. Im not gonna waste my time on how it was written I get the point of it.

Anyway I think they should be exploring all options, period. The team sucks and cramming pieces next to Dirk hasn't been working.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The team sucks and cramming pieces next to Dirk hasn't been working.

That's because we keep cramming the wrong pieces around him - fire Donnie...

[dalmations202]

I've argued this before, but I'll summarize it again.

You add a superstar and you have a chance. You lose a superstar and you end up sucking.

Even in the Kobe/Shaq era -- Miami added the Superstar and won it all (to the NBA). Kobe wasn't close until they added the Star of the Grizzlies to the team (Gasol). How have the Grizzlies been fairing here lately?

Minn loses KG, and they are ????

When you find a Superstar, you keep him until he is a shell of himself .......ie what Shaq is now.

You never trade Superstars when they can still play.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's because we keep cramming the wrong pieces around him - fire Donnie...

Agree, Fire Donnie!! Off with FO heads..

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Agree, Fire Donnie!! Off with FO heads..

I wonder what Del Harris is up to these days?


(probably enjoying his retirement, dammit...)

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

If we miss the playoffs at least we'll be in the lottery. Maybe we can get a high lottery pick and get a Hasheem Thabeet or James Harden.

This is the best argument I have seen to keeping Dirk for atleast another year. The "Duncan Theory"! Haha I just think the people who are saying we can trade the other players on this roster to help build around Dirk have not been paying close attention to how this organization has been run.

And I think Underdog and I may finally have an agreement on something. Donnie boy needs to go! And yes, we sorely miss Del Harris

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I've argued this before, but I'll summarize it again.

You add a superstar and you have a chance. You lose a superstar and you end up sucking.

Even in the Kobe/Shaq era -- Miami added the Superstar and won it all (to the NBA). Kobe wasn't close until they added the Star of the Grizzlies to the team (Gasol). How have the Grizzlies been fairing here lately?

Minn loses KG, and they are ????

When you find a Superstar, you keep him until he is a shell of himself .......ie what Shaq is now.

You never trade Superstars when they can still play.

EH, the Lakers seem to be doing fine now and they lost Shaq who went on to win another title. Minn had nothing but KG really. Grizz had nothing but Gasol. Not the same...At least they have a visible future, you can see where they are going. I think all franchises are different. You can't just claim them all generally to be the same. Some FO's are better than others.

I can't agree with when you have a superstar you keep him until he is a shell of himself, especially when you are not really winning! EVery team basically will end up sucking but at some point the decision needs to be made on HOW LONG you end up sucking.

[robo98564]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Wow, a lil harsh on this dood IMO. I thought in general it was a cool read. I agree with some of this too. Im not gonna waste my time on how it was written I get the point of it.

Anyway I think they should be exploring all options, period. The team sucks and cramming pieces next to Dirk hasn't been working.

Haha thanks man...

And I agree we aren't to the point where we need to run out and trade Dirk for whatever we can get. But if we are not at least listening to offers, then we are doing ourselves an injustice. A lot of teams won't give us fair-market value for Dirk, but who knows. We could also end up on the good end of a lop-sided trade for once.

I love having Dirk with the Mavs, but at some point you have to at the least start exploring your other options.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I wonder what Del Harris is up to these days?


(probably enjoying his retirement, dammit...)

Del is an assistant coach for the Chicano Bulls as of now..

You talking about him as a Donnie replacement? Then I'm down..

[ty]

Originally Posted by robo98564

Haha thanks man...

And I agree we aren't to the point where we need to run out and trade Dirk for whatever we can get. But if we are not at least listening to offers, then we are doing ourselves an injustice. A lot of teams won't give us fair-market value for Dirk, but who knows. We could also end up on the good end of a lop-sided trade for once.

I love having Dirk with the Mavs, but at some point you have to at the least start exploring your other options.

I'm sure the Mavs are listening (and easily rejecting) every BS offer they receive for Dirk right now (if they even get any).

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by robo98564

Haha thanks man...

And I agree we aren't to the point where we need to run out and trade Dirk for whatever we can get. But if we are not at least listening to offers, then we are doing ourselves an injustice. A lot of teams won't give us fair-market value for Dirk, but who knows. We could also end up on the good end of a lop-sided trade for once.

I love having Dirk with the Mavs, but at some point you have to at the least start exploring your other options.

Of course, it's pretty simple. IF something comes along worthy, what ever that may be, then jump on it. If not ,you still have Dirk. I love me some Dirk but I love the Mavs more. I will be here longer than he will. I can learn to like other players as much as Dirk and eventually that will happen for all of us true MAV fans one day!

[Kidd Karma]

I'll compare Dirk to the KG situation. This is Minny's 2nd year without KG. Minny picked up Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick and their own pick, plus cash. They are currently 11-26 after finishing off a really bad year last year. They netted Kevin Love, Mike Miller this past offseason. And things don't look any better for next year either, draft wise, no prospective top 5 talents is projected in this draft. They're looking at 2 more losing years, totaling 4 consecutive losing seasons.

On the flip side, with some good trades, Boston was able to build a championship team, when they were in a similar situation with Paul Pierce. Having already run the gamut....supposedly, with younger pieces, Pierce was the odd guy out. Being as shrewd as he was on the court, Ainge built a squad around Pierce, a squad of similar age, talent and desire as Pierce. It didn't take much a couple of 1st rounders, one proven talent(Jefferson).

There are names out there Marion, O'Neal, Redd, GWallace, Felton, Brad Miller, Camby, and they're probably going really cheap. The Mavs have a little bit of everything to offer, expirings, young chips, downtrodden proven stars, bigs.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I'll compare Dirk to the KG situation. This is Minny's 2nd year without KG. Minny picked up Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick and their own pick, plus cash. They are currently 11-26 after finishing off a really bad year last year. They netted Kevin Love, Mike Miller this past offseason. And things don't look any better for next year either, draft wise, no prospective top 5 talents is projected in this draft. They're looking at 2 more losing years, totaling 4 consecutive losing seasons.

On the flip side, with some good trades, Boston was able to build a championship team, when they were in a similar situation with Paul Pierce. Having already run the gamut....supposedly, with younger pieces, Pierce was the odd guy out. Being as shrewd as he was on the court, Ainge built a squad around Pierce, a squad of similar age, talent and desire as Pierce. It didn't take much a couple of 1st rounders, one proven talent(Jefferson).

There are names out there Marion, O'Neal, Redd, GWallace, Felton, Brad Miller, Camby, and they're probably going really cheap. The Mavs have a little bit of everything to offer, expirings, young chips, downtrodden proven stars, bigs.

We have JHO, JET, KIDD. Minn didn't have near that talent. If you take those guys out and leave just Dirk and trade him then sure, the scenario is similar. We have more to work with. There is also a difference in KG and Dirk too. KG is a great defender and post player, natural with his PF position, dirk is not so much.

I don't think any of the names you gave above putting us over the top or actually competing for a ring. Maybe Redd would get us the closest of them all. I would love to do a Redd for JHo deal but why would the Bucks want 2 SF's...

Just explore all options imo.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

I'll compare Dirk to the KG situation. This is Minny's 2nd year without KG. Minny picked up Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick and their own pick, plus cash. They are currently 11-26 after finishing off a really bad year last year. They netted Kevin Love, Mike Miller this past offseason. And things don't look any better for next year either, draft wise, no prospective top 5 talents is projected in this draft. They're looking at 2 more losing years, totaling 4 consecutive losing seasons.

On the flip side, with some good trades, Boston was able to build a championship team, when they were in a similar situation with Paul Pierce. Having already run the gamut....supposedly, with younger pieces, Pierce was the odd guy out. Being as shrewd as he was on the court, Ainge built a squad around Pierce, a squad of similar age, talent and desire as Pierce. It didn't take much a couple of 1st rounders, one proven talent(Jefferson).

There are names out there Marion, O'Neal, Redd, GWallace, Felton, Brad Miller, Camby, and they're probably going really cheap. The Mavs have a little bit of everything to offer, expirings, young chips, downtrodden proven stars, bigs.

If Dallas could somehow add 2 other *franchise* level players, then Boston would be a great analogy. If they could add just 1 other franchise level player, then the Lakers would also be a good analogy.

Otherwise, they'll be just like any other team struggling along without enough supporting talent for their 1 franchise player to be able to do anything. That's what the last 2 years have looked like, and it's very similar to Memphis and Minnesota before their trades. Letting their best players go didn't help those teams a whole lot. But not letting their best players go wasn't helping them very much either.

If the players they have now would magically get their act together and support Dirk like they should (and have), then Orlando and Cleveland would be apt analogies.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

We have JHO, JET, KIDD. Minn didn't have near that talent. If you take those guys out and leave just Dirk and trade him then sure, the scenario is similar. We have more to work with. There is also a difference in KG and Dirk too. KG is a great defender and post player, natural with his PF position, dirk is not so much.

I don't think any of the names you gave above putting us over the top or actually competing for a ring. Maybe Redd would get us the closest of them all. I would love to do a Redd for JHo deal but why would the Bucks want 2 SF's...

Just explore all options imo.

I read something yesterday that they're shopping RJ too, in addition to Sessions and Villanueva.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

We have JHO, JET, KIDD. Minn didn't have near that talent. If you take those guys out and leave just Dirk and trade him then sure, the scenario is similar. We have more to work with. There is also a difference in KG and Dirk too. KG is a great defender and post player, natural with his PF position, dirk is not so much.

I don't think any of the names you gave above putting us over the top or actually competing for a ring. Maybe Redd would get us the closest of them all. I would love to do a Redd for JHo deal but why would the Bucks want 2 SF's...

Just explore all options imo.

That's not nearly as talented as you think unfortunately.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by dude1394

That's not nearly as talented as you think unfortunately.

Point taken, but the same thing was said of Devin Harris...

Nonetheless more talented than what minn had.