Quincy Carter - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:01 PM

Filthy, I don't ever recall that Campo made him stop (but it doesn't mean that Campo never actually did because I haven't read EVERY single Cowboy article in the past year). However, I think Quincy's scrambling problem comes from him wanting so badly to become a pocket passer. If you think he can't scramble, then you either didn't watch him at all last year, or you turned off the TV because last year was so bad. He did a great job last year at scrambling. Plus, it seemed at times last year like he could never be sacked. I don't what has happened this year: the bad offensive line has allowed so many sacks that it makes Quincy's scrambling ability look pretty bad, or, like I mentioned earlier, Quincy is trying so hard to be a pocket passer that he is hesitant to run. I think it really is a combination of both of those things. Also, Filthy Fin could be correct and Dave could have told him not to run wild like last year.

Also, Filthy Fin isn't totally stupid for bringing up the rascist thing. There are people who do not think Quincy will make it because he is black. Now, I don't believe any reside on this board, but they are in Dallas. Dale Hansen brought up a couple of e-mails he received, one of them saying that, Quincy won't make it because blacks accel at reactionary positions (RB, WR) where they let "their athleticism make plays". This e-mailer went on further saying that white people make the best quarterbacks because they can use "their God-given talent to make plays." So if you think that there isn't a segment of the Quincy-hating fan club that is rascist, then you are in denial.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:02 PM

Well, I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say Q-Car's QB rating was in the teens.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 11:05 PM

Also, Filthy Fin isn't totally stupid for bringing up the rascist thing. There are people who do not think Quincy will make it because he is black.

Noone said that. We objected to his use of and association of inert posts from this site into the subject from the Ticket. If anyone wants to discuss the race issue, make another post and we will certainly do it there. I don't think the post would be long though, because virtually everyone here is in agreement that racism exists in a small faction of the fan base.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:11 PM

<< Filthy, I don't ever recall that Campo made him stop (but it doesn't mean that Campo never actually did because I haven't read EVERY single Cowboy article in the past year). However, I think Quincy's scrambling problem comes from him wanting so badly to become a pocket passer. If you think he can't scramble, then you either didn't watch him at all last year, or you turned off the TV because last year was so bad. He did a great job last year at scrambling. Plus, it seemed at times last year like he could never be sacked. I don't what has happened this year: the bad offensive line has allowed so many sacks that it makes Quincy's scrambling ability look pretty bad, or, like I mentioned earlier, Quincy is trying so hard to be a pocket passer that he is hesitant to run. I think it really is a combination of both of those things. Also, Filthy Fin could be correct and Dave could have told him not to run wild like last year.

Also, Filthy Fin isn't totally stupid for bringing up the rascist thing. There are people who do not think Quincy will make it because he is black. Now, I don't believe any reside on this board, but they are in Dallas. Dale Hansen brought up a couple of e-mails he received, one of them saying that, Quincy won't make it because blacks accel at reactionary positions (RB, WR) where they let "their athleticism make plays". This e-mailer went on further saying that white people make the best quarterbacks because they can use "their God-given talent to make plays." So if you think that there isn't a segment of the Quincy-hating fan club that is rascist, then you are in denial. >>

Wasnt aware that happened it makes alot of sense though because I was wondering why Dale brings up the race issue. Those are the type of ignorant comments that piss me off when you can argue that one of the best qbs in the game right now is Donovan Mcnabb. THanks for seein the way I saw it Fintastic thats all I was trying to say basically. Dont get me wrong I am not saying Carter will suceed but I am just saying he will not damn this is gonna be a torture week for him with the press wouldnt suprise me if he retired this week lol.

FINtastic · 10-20-2002, 11:14 PM

I know filthy fin, this is gonna be Houston all over again. Although at least this time he took responsibility. I hope he has the same bounce back game that he did last time.

Drbio · 10-20-2002, 11:16 PM

How could he not take responsibility? He threw interceptions on two drives where the Cowboys were virtually guaranteed to score. He threw four interceptions on balls that should not have been thrown in the field of play. He was the singular reason the Cowboys lost today.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-20-2002, 11:21 PM

<< I know filthy fin, this is gonna be Houston all over again. Although at least this time he took responsibility. I hope he has the same bounce back game that he did last time. >>

Yea I seriously hope too. If he bounces back its gonna show another sign that a good qb has to do which is bounce back from poor effort.

Evilmav2 · 10-21-2002, 04:47 PM

Say hello to the bench Quincy...

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 04:57 PM

<<
Say hello to the bench Quincy... >>

No comment.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

MavsRich · 10-21-2002, 05:07 PM

I agree with FFM, and it's pretty obvious too. The typical QB of the Cowboys is white, Aikman, Staubach, etc etc and some of these guys hate to see QC playing the QB position for the Cowboys. You can bring up Vick, or whoever but their history is not like the Dallas Cowboys. You can bring up players like Emmitt and others, but that isn't the QB position. The QB position is the hardest to play, and some want QC to fail, simply because he is black. What a shame..............

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 05:13 PM

<< I agree with FFM, and it's pretty obvious too. The typical QB of the Cowboys is white, Aikman, Staubach, etc etc and some of these guys hate to see QC playing the QB position for the Cowboys. You can bring up Vick, or whoever but their history is not like the Dallas Cowboys. You can bring up players like Emmitt and others, but that isn't the QB position. The QB position is the hardest to play, and some want QC to fail, simply because he is black. What a shame.............. >>

True and I think it s a shame people want me to leave away from the fact that it is true but sad. I also agree that most fans want him to fail because its Jerrys guy. It also doesent hurt that he was a 2nd round pick that couldve went in the 4th.

MFFL · 10-21-2002, 05:36 PM

<< but what qb is ready to play in the NFL after 15 games? >>

This argument is rather stale. Crater's had TWO training camps as the starting qb and numerous mini-camps. I haven't seen ANY improvement. He's NOT a rookie, he's a second year pro who hasn't progressed.

<< ANother thing I thought to look into was the racial argument. Because QC is black you have some fans who are white who don't want him here and you have some who are black who want to give him a chance. >>

I honestly think that Crater has been given enough chances for improvement. He sucks whatever his race.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 05:40 PM

<<

<< but what qb is ready to play in the NFL after 15 games? >>

This argument is rather stale. Crater's had TWO training camps as the starting qb and numerous mini-camps. I haven't seen ANY improvement. He's NOT a rookie, he's a second year pro who hasn't progressed.

<< ANother thing I thought to look into was the racial argument. Because QC is black you have some fans who are white who don't want him here and you have some who are black who want to give him a chance. >>

I honestly think that Crater has been given enough chances for improvement. He sucks whatever his race. >>

What do you mean its stale? Just becuase u dont believe in it or know it it is doesent mean its stale. Carter had 2 training camps but has had 2 different offensive coordinators and a shuffled and unhealthy line and a non existant running game. Go check into some facts before you come and try to bash my post. BTW, is Crater suppose to be a insult to Carter? What is a Crater?

dude1394 · 10-21-2002, 05:53 PM

I have been a stalwart supporter of not knee-jerking with quincy. But I must admit that the team has stunk it up for the last three-four weeks. Last week he was terrible and found lightning in a bottle and then yesterday he stunk it up even worse. The offense is just horrible. As much as I know this may not be the right move (i.e. Hutch being the answer) they are going nowhere at this rate either, as jerry said, they think they know the answer with quincy so get on with it.

Ouch, it continues.

MFFL · 10-21-2002, 06:15 PM

<< What do you mean its stale? >>

Stale - no longer fresh. It's an argument that has been used to death.

<< Just becuase u dont believe in it or know it it is doesent mean its stale. Carter had 2 training camps but has had 2 different offensive coordinators and a shuffled and unhealthy line and a non existant running game. >>

If you had used THIS argument then I might have let it stand. But the 15 starts routine was irrelevant.

<< Go check into some facts before you come and try to bash my post. >>

What facts are needed? I can get facts to prove that Crater has been awful.

<< BTW, is Crater suppose to be a insult to Carter? >>

YES!

<< What is a Crater? >>

A bomb leaves a crater after it explodes. A meteor leaves a crater when it hits the moon. Carter has left a crater in the hearts of all Cowboy fans everywhere.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 06:19 PM

<<

<< What do you mean its stale? >>

Stale - no longer fresh. It's an argument that has been used to death.

<< Just becuase u dont believe in it or know it it is doesent mean its stale. Carter had 2 training camps but has had 2 different offensive coordinators and a shuffled and unhealthy line and a non existant running game. >>

If you had used THIS argument then I might have let it stand. But the 15 starts routine was irrelevant.

<< Go check into some facts before you come and try to bash my post. >>

What facts are needed? I can get facts to prove that Crater has been awful.

<< BTW, is Crater suppose to be a insult to Carter? >>

YES!

<< What is a Crater? >>

A bomb leaves a crater after it explodes. A meteor leaves a crater when it hits the moon. Carter has left a crater in the hearts of all Cowboy fans everywhere. >>

Which brings me back to my point how is that a insult to Quincy other than a misspell lol.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

MFFL · 10-21-2002, 06:23 PM

I see that the art of the subtle insult is lost on you. Ah well...

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 06:27 PM

<< I see that the art of the subtle insult is lost on you. Ah well... >>

Pardon me for not understanding corny jokes. I asked it because I only see you and BIO use it.

FINtastic · 10-21-2002, 07:36 PM

This argument is rather stale. Crater's had TWO training camps as the starting qb and numerous mini-camps. I haven't seen ANY improvement. He's NOT a rookie, he's a second year pro who hasn't progressed.

You know, you can make the argument that he is not good enough right now (that is your opinion). But you are as blind as a bat if you think Quincy hasn't improved at all. Quincy wast horrible the first half of the season. At least he turned out to resemble something you could call a QB by the time he got benched. But he made tons of improvement. If you think I am wrong, then go watch last year's Tampa Bay game, and watch a few games this year. Night and day difference.

Drbio · 10-21-2002, 07:49 PM

If a guy has improved greatly and then goes out and wonderfully executes a four interception day, don't you think we should cut him? Do you want the first draft pick or what?

FilthyFinMavs · 10-21-2002, 07:55 PM

<< If a guy has improved greatly and then goes out and wonderfully executes a four interception day, don't you think we should cut him? Do you want the first draft pick or what? >>

I know for one I dont. I want this qb situation to be solved under Hutch or Quincy. I do not want to draft a qb this draft we have alot more positions that can be resolved. You dont just draft a qb in this league and he will turn out to be a stud Ryan Leaft is an example. Thast why I hope one of these guys work out Emmitt goes and does his thing and bring in a running back. I think Hambrick is a good rb but no one knows if he is the answer. I dont want ot miss out on anymore Tomlinsons. We still need some recievers also. Again we have a nice group of guys but that doesent mean we couldnt use another Antonio Bryant. O Line is hideous that should be the number 1 priority. Hopefully Quincy turns out good and we trade Hutch for a good lineman.

MFFL · 10-21-2002, 08:49 PM

<< You know, you can make the argument that he is not good enough right now (that is your opinion). But you are as blind as a bat if you think Quincy hasn't improved at all. >>

I am willing to live with a quarterback who is not an All-Pro. I am willing to live with a qb who is middle of the road as far as talent. But Crater does not even have good fundamentals. His throwing motion had to be redone - his mechanics were very bad. And when Crater gets flustered or excited, his mechanics go back out of whack. He can't put a good spiral on the ball which means that the ball has increased wind resistance - and thus the defender has a split second more to break up the play. Crater has poor footwork, he trips frequently and doesn't set up well in the pocket. He doesn't scramble well - only averaging 3.5 yards per rush. Crater's timing is bad - he can't hit a receiver in stride. His reads are pathetic but I'm willing to give him a break on that - young qb's don't make good reads.

<< Quincy wast horrible the first half of the season. At least he turned out to resemble something you could call a QB by the time he got benched. But he made tons of improvement. If you think I am wrong, then go watch last year's Tampa Bay game, and watch a few games this year. Night and day difference. >>

OK - you are right. Last year Crater was REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad. This year he is merely REALLY, REALLY bad. But where are the flashes? When is he showing his talent? I'd love to see SOMETHING every once in awhile. Even a terrible qb has a couple of good series a game. The only dramatic improvement that Crater has had is that he has learned how to take a snap.

FINtastic · 10-21-2002, 09:44 PM

MFFL the only point I was trying to make was that it is unfair of you to say he hasn't made any improvement, when clearly the guy has. However, I didn't say anything in that post that said "Wow he's the greatest!" "He's gonna be All-Pro!" "He's Awesome with a Capital A, Baby!" I DID NOT SAY THAT IMPROVEMENT MADE HIM A GREAT QUARTERBACK! I merely responded to your statement that he hadn't improved at all, by saying he clearly had improved.

dude1394 · 10-21-2002, 10:35 PM

<< MFFL the only point I was trying to make was that it is unfair of you to say he hasn't made any improvement, when clearly the guy has. However, I didn't say anything in that post that said "Wow he's the greatest!" "He's gonna be All-Pro!" "He's Awesome with a Capital A, Baby!" I DID NOT SAY THAT IMPROVEMENT MADE HIM A GREAT QUARTERBACK! I merely responded to your statement that he hadn't improved at all, by saying he clearly had improved. >>

But it sounds sort of like you are just picking around the argument. I think jerry/campo has very patiently watched him for 15 games, he has improved from last year when he couldn't grip the ball(gosh can't believe I'm saying that), but he has stunk it up this year easily 4 of the 7 games and his good games don't make you say wow.

David Carr looked a lot better than he in his very first nfl game.

MFFL · 10-21-2002, 11:21 PM

<< David Carr looked a lot better than he in his very first nfl game. >>

That was my point in the other thread. Carr was the 1st overall pick - his fundamentals are sound, he just needs experience. Carter, on the other hand, was picked late in the 2nd. He didn't have the solid fundamentals of Carr. He needed time to develop fundamentals and THEN it would be time to gain experience. Both areas couldn't be developed at the same time but Jones decided it could be done and threw Carter to the wolves.

Again proving that Jones is the worst GM in the NFL.

FINtastic · 10-21-2002, 11:44 PM

dude, please read my post. I am not picking around any argument. My last posts stated very clearly the simple fact that Quincy improved. It's in black and white, and it's the only thing that I said. I can't believe I am getting ripped for pointing out the simple fact that Quincy has improved, when someone said he hadn't. If I stated that the sky was blue would you all start ripping me for that too? Honestly, my last two posts said nothing about his overall level of play. It only spoke about the improvement he made (which even I admitted that it hasn't brought him yet to the level of a good QB). Please quit trying to stuff words in my mouth.

madape · 10-22-2002, 07:31 AM

MFFL - I doubt Jones is the worst GM in the NFL. He does have three super bowl rings. You give credit to those to whoever you want, but Jerry was a BIG part in bringing championship level football back to Dallas. That alone proves to me that he's not the WORST general manager in the NFL.

What has become painfully obvious to anyone who is paying attention and not looking through rose colored glasses is that Quincy Carter is the worst quarterback in the NFL. He has shown very little progress in his 15 games here. He actually looks like he's getting worse. The Cowboys offense has a lot of problems, true. But Quincy is the worst of them. His weaknesses and deficiencies as a player become clearer and clearer every week. This week, for instance, we learned that Quincy 1) Can't throw while scrambling out of the pocket. 2) Can't make accurate passes while in the pocket. 3) Has no composure when the pressure is on. 4) Makes terrible decisions.

The Cowboys feel pretty confident that Q will never develop into an even mediocre NFL quarterback. So the question is when is it time to move on? Hutchenson can't do much worse, so why not take the rest of the season to take a good look at Hutch? Hopefully he won't be as much of a waste of time as Quincy was. Hutch may even prove to be better that Q even without a day of NFL experience! Again, Hutch can't do much worse.

MFFL · 10-22-2002, 09:33 AM

<< MFFL - I doubt Jones is the worst GM in the NFL. He does have three super bowl rings. You give credit to those to whoever you want, but Jerry was a BIG part in bringing championship level football back to Dallas. That alone proves to me that he's not the WORST general manager in the NFL. >>

Jones is an excellent OWNER. He brought championship football to Dallas by hiring Johnson. Jimmy was the reason the team won superbowls - he drafted the players and he coached the players. Jones merely paid the players.

And even if you give a dollop of credit to Jones, he's been living off of his reputation for a long time. Until this year his drafts have SUCKED, his free-agent signing have SUCKED, and his trades have SUCKED. He cannot evaluate talent - remember he thought Aikman was still a franchise qb in his last couple of years when it was obvious to everyone else that he wasn't.

As an owner, Jones is an All-Pro. As a GM, he is a waterboy.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-22-2002, 03:23 PM

No way in hell Jones is the best GM. JJ is the one who got him those rings. Though I have problems saying that because JJ doubted both Emmitt and Aikman for being successful. By looking at the mess the Cowboys are in now no way in hell you can say he is one of the best GMS in the league. Event hough he drafted my boy in Carter that dumb ass move not only made Quincy haters in Dallas but is effecting Carter as a young player. Look at this roster right now. Our Oline has no one but Larry Allen and I will give Gurode his props but the rest of the O line has no one that would even start in this league and last season the defense had no body on it other than a handful of players. They had guys from gas stations and back up roles playing starting roles for them. Though I give him his props he did have a successful off season and I am glad he decided to improve the defense rather than be a dumbass and think his defense was already good enough becuase it was ranked high.

dude1394 · 10-22-2002, 07:41 PM

This is bunk'em. In todays nfl go anywhere where there is a hall of fame quarterback and a hall of fame wide receiver and an aging hall of fame running back. And the QB and WR still pretty much in their prime (due to age) and salary.

Now in one year one quits because of concussions, then the wr quits because of a neck problem. You try to run a team when you have 20 million of a salary cap sitting idle.

Giving jerry a beating on this is silly. If you want to beat him up for not cutting emmitt smith then say so, but only until that happens will they truly be ready to rebuild.

Unless you were so clever that you think troy and michael and emmitt should have been traded 3 years ago?. It's just the payback time needed for those three super bowls.

MFFL · 08-23-2003, 07:15 AM

bump for Quincy fan.

QCarFan · 08-23-2003, 07:32 PM

Thanks MFFL, how would I get to the old threads like that?

MFFL · 08-23-2003, 08:04 PM

Above the line

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