Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Jennings had a 55 points game, and basically has been terrible ever since. Tony Delk has a 50 point game in the NBA. Wall had a terrible game after that btw, and he is not a very good player at the moment, also injury prone to top that. I would rather try my luck with Evans, even though he has much of the same problems. I think Dirk would hate to play with either to be honest.

They started the season 5-28. They're above .500 with him back in the lineup, and 18-15 with him starting. This despite playing on one of the worst teams in the league, with constant injuries to Nene, Ariza, Beal, Barbosa, and missing games from Okafor and Webster. He's commonly carrying guys like Garrett Temple, Seraphim, Singleton, Jan Vesely (who is beyond awful), Martin, and a bunch of other fringe NBA guys to wins. These include some significant wins, including impressive ones against the Grizzlies, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Nets, Knicks, Clippers, Bulls.

Since the all-star game he's averaging 19.4/7.9/4.4 on .453/.455/.844 in ~34 mpg. They're +3.6/100 possessions with him and -6.2/100 possessions without him (for a +9.8/100 possessions net).

He's a tall, lightning quick guard that can get to the rim at will, runs the break to near perfection, is above average on defense (though could improve his positioning), has continued to improve every year, makes his teammates significantly better, has a demonstrated ability to take over a game, has been terrific playing out of the pick and roll, and, oh, he's 22 and barely scratching the surface. It's lazy and ignorant to dismiss him.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

They started the season 5-28. They're above .500 with him back in the lineup, and 18-15 with him starting. This despite playing on one of the worst teams in the league, with constant injuries to Nene, Ariza, Beal, Barbosa, and missing games from Okafor and Webster. He's commonly carrying guys like Garrett Temple, Seraphim, Singleton, Jan Vesely (who is beyond awful), Martin, and a bunch of other fringe NBA guys to wins. These include some significant wins, including impressive ones against the Grizzlies, Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Nets, Knicks, Clippers, Bulls.

Since the all-star game he's averaging 19.4/7.9/4.4 on .453/.455/.844 in ~34 mpg. They're +3.6/100 possessions with him and -6.2/100 possessions without him (for a +9.8/100 possessions net).

He's a tall, lightning quick guard that can get to the rim at will, runs the break to near perfection, is above average on defense (though could improve his positioning), has continued to improve every year, makes his teammates significantly better, has a demonstrated ability to take over a game, has been terrific playing out of the pick and roll, and, oh, he's 22 and barely scratching the surface. It's lazy and ignorant to dismiss him.

That is a terribly little sample size for someone who was a complete failure in his first 2 seasons. Honestly, at this point there is not even a body of work that is worth to dismiss. We're talking about nothing at this point, pure potential, fiction if you like. Nothing lazy or ignorant about my statements imo. His recent 3 point shooting is obviously a fluke, and it will regress.

His scoring efficiency is still terrible, and even during that good run is inconsistent, and his turnover % is also still way too high. There is nothing that indicates at this point that he is not an all too well known combination of high usage and low scoring efficiency. Based on your scouting report i would think we're talking about a young Jordan btw. You are a huge John Wall fan aren't you? Wow. He's probably a bust if you'd ask that now, and you're telling tales about his sophomore year improvements? He improved consistently in his second year? Really? His second year was a total failure, and the consensus was that he absolutely failed to improve his game. Sorry, hard to take your seriously.

And don't get me wrong please, i was very, very high on Wall, still are in fact (on his potential). I really thought he will be a Rose/Paul combo. That idea couldn't be further from the truth so far. As you said, he's only 22, and he has superstar potential, no question about it, but he is faaaar from an impact player at this point, even that improved version of himself. The truth is, he was supposed to be that, and more in his rookie year.

[nowhereman]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

That is a terribly little sample size for someone who was a complete failure in his first 2 seasons. Honestly, at this point there is not even a body of work that is worth to dismiss. We're talking about nothing at this point, pure potential, fiction if you like. Nothing lazy or ignorant about my statements imo. His recent 3 point shooting is obviously a fluke, and it will regress.

His scoring efficiency is still terrible, and even during that good run is inconsistent, and his turnover % is also still way too high. There is nothing that indicates at this point that he is not an all too well known combination of high usage and low scoring efficiency. Based on your scouting report i would think we're talking about a young Jordan btw. You are a huge John Wall fan aren't you? Wow. He's probably a bust if you'd ask that now, and you're telling tales about his sophomore year improvements? He improved consistently in his second year? Really? His second year was a total failure, and the consensus was that he absolutely failed to improve his game. Sorry, hard to take your seriously.

And don't get me wrong please, i was very, very high on Wall, still are in fact (on his potential). I really thought he will be a Rose/Paul combo. That idea couldn't be further from the truth so far. As you said, he's only 22, and he has superstar potential, no question about it, but he is faaaar from an impact player at this point, even that improved version of himself. The truth is, he was supposed to be that, and more in his rookie year.

That's not how sample size arguments work. My arguments aren't stat driven. I'm saying he has absurd ability and talent. That talent is reflected in his production. I'm not saying he's talented because of his production.

Oh, and he just dominated the Bulls. Basically controlled the game there. Running up and down the court with guys like Singleton, Seraphin, Temple, Beal, and Nene. This guy is legit and is today clearly one of the 7-8 best PGs in the game.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

That's not how sample size arguments work. My arguments aren't stat driven. I'm saying he has absurd ability and talent. That talent is reflected in his production. I'm not saying he's talented because of his production. Oh, and he just dominated the Bulls. Basically controlled the game there.

I agree he has elite talent, and that his current production reflects that, but given how his first 2 years went down, i think he needs to show this a lot longer to get there, where i think you think he already is.

Originally Posted by nowhereman

Running up and down the court with guys like Singleton, Seraphin, Temple, Beal, and Nene.

One of those guys is not like the others. Rubio would kill for a guy like Nene right now. Or at least he would have killed for him a couple weeks ago.

Originally Posted by nowhereman

This guy is legit and is today clearly one of the 7-8 best PGs in the game.

Sounds about right if we go by this Wall, which, again, i'm hesitant to do just yet, but yeah. I think Paul, Westbrook, Rose, Parker, Irving, Rondo, Williams are clearly better at their best (at this point), and i think you could argue Curry as well. That would still make Wall top 10, with maybe Rubio rounding up that top 10.