The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

He can complain all he wants but if a team can put together a package better than the mavs there is no way the magic will entertain his interests rather than take what they want...in any circumstance.

How many teams would trade for dwight though without him accepting a extension?

[Firnen]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

Im not too sure about the rules but dont you have to hold a player you get traded for a certain period of time? And that seems like a lot of work to trade 2 times rather than just find some talent you want or can keep in the 1 and only trade

you could get a 3rd team involved to get orlando players they want - but thats very unlikely imo

if you aquire a player via trade you can't package this player with others in a new trade, but you can trade him away in a single trade

[DTownKidd]

Originally Posted by mavs777

How many teams would trade for dwight though without him accepting a extension?

NJ and LA, probably others would be willing just havent heard anything in the media really. NY did it with Melo last year so there have to be some teams out there that would risk it with D12

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

He can complain all he wants but if a team can put together a package better than the mavs there is no way the magic will entertain his interests rather than take what they want...in any circumstance.

It's not about that. No team will trade away a bunch of stuff if Dwight announces there is no way he will re-sign there. Carmelo is a prime example..he was going to the Knicks...period... Only a wild man like Cuban might roll the dice on it.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

NJ and LA, probably others would be willing just havent heard anything in the media really. NY did it with Melo last year so there have to be some teams out there that would risk it with D12

But ny knew melo would sign. Nj, lakers and Dallas, clips are the only ones on Dwight's list.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DTownKidd

Im not too sure about the rules but dont you have to hold a player you get traded for a certain period of time? And that seems like a lot of work to trade 2 times rather than just find some talent you want or can keep in the 1 and only trade

Three team trades happen all the time.

[EricaLubarsky]

We dont know hed sign here. We really dont.

[MavsFTR]

Updated: February 8, 2012, 7:22 PM ET
Owner wants Dwight Howard to stay
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4
By Tom Haberstroh
ESPN.com
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ORLANDO -- Magic owner Richard Devos says he wants disgruntled center Dwight Howard to stay in Orlando.

"I don't want to trade him," the 85-year-old Devos said of Howard, who is eligible to become a free agent at the end of the season.

Devos unexpectedly addressed the media in the Magic locker room about an hour before Wednesday's game against the Miami Heat.


Howard
While players such as Jason Richardson and Daniel Orton went out of their way to greet Devos, Howard did not acknowledge the wheelchair-bound owner upon entering the locker room or during Devos' media session.

Howard has publicly requested a trade from Orlando.

"We like to think we're making headway," Devos said of talks with Howard and his representatives. "But I don't know. He probably won't know until the end and I won't either."

When asked if he could put a percentage chance on Howard staying with the team long-term, Devos said he wouldn't put a number on it.

"I don't gamble on that, I just plan on him staying," the owner said.

Devos said that he talked to Howard recently in Miami, but that his son, Richard Devos Jr., was in charge of talks with Howard.

"You never give up," Devos said of the negotiations. "We've got a great talent, a great young man. He's got to look at his options (and) what's best for him and I have to tell him what I think is best for him. I'm selfish."

Howard said Wednesday that regardless of whether he is dealt, his opinion of Devos or the organization won't change.

"The respect for people is fundamental," Howard said. "They have their interest where they want to go and they may or may not coincide with mine. Life goes on."

Devos said that the fact that Shaquille O'Neal left the Magic as a free agent to join the Los Angeles Lakers has no ramifications on Howard's situation.

"That's a long time ago," Devos said. "He's a great person and a wonderful guy. When you're young, you shop."

Howard, 26, is averaging 20.9 points and 15.1 rebounds and has been selected to start the All-Star Game, which is being held in Orlando in late February. Howard can become a free agent at the end of the season.

[Sportstudi]

Howard is just nasty... 11/10 in the first quarter alone against Miami.

[Firnen]

great news

[FINtastic]

From Simmons' column yesterday:

It's been fascinating to watch Williams keep that reprehensible Nets team competitive. Nobody feels sorry for him because he ruined the last year of Jerry Sloan's career, and for that he remains in NBA Purgatory — at least until he signs with Dallas this summer.

The footnote to that above blurb is the following:

We're all supposed to pretend this might not happen even though it's a bigger summer lock than Michael Phelps winning a gold medal. I haven't talked to one person "In the Know" who isn't 100 percent convinced that Dallas is getting him. But let's all keep pretending this isn't true.

[jthig32]

Simmons had a podcast with Stein yesterday as well and said the same thing, but Stein still thinks Deron and Dwight in NJ is the most likely outcome.

[endrity]

If Deron is coming here, than Howard will think long and hard about doing the same thing

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by endrity

If Deron is coming here, than Howard will think long and hard about doing the same thing

Somehow, someway, somebody is going to have to get Dwight,deron thinking and talking about doing this together before the summer. The Dirkster needs to lobby hard out in Orlando.

Someone needs to get their agents together. They need to decide to make this happen themselves because they are both going to have to leave money in the table.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Somehow, someway, somebody is going to have to get Dwight,deron thinking and talking about doing this together before the summer. The Dirkster needs to lobby hard out in Orlando.

Someone needs to get their agents together. They need to decide to make this happen themselves because they are both going to have to leave money in the table.

I think Deron would leave money on the table for sure if Dwight would come

[sefant77]

Maybe they are (specially Deron) little bit scared about the media response when they would pretty much "backstab" the Nets and decide to sign both with Dallas...

[adonis]

And neither of those guys would win shit without having a 34-year old (and still at his prime) Nowitzki. Both aren't legit 1st option players and aren't good enough for Miami. They'd end up like Amar'e and Melo right now.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I think Deron would leave money on the table for sure if Dwight would come

They will both have to leave dollars on the table to come to Dallas. Maybe not in nj. But in Avery I trust.

[twistaeffect2004]

The thought of Dirk, Dwight, and Deron in Dallas is really too much for me to handle. They compliment each other so well it's absolutely insane to think how good they'd be together.

[cowboyuptx]

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

The thought of Dirk, Dwight, and Deron in Dallas is really too much for me to handle. They compliment each other so well it's absolutely insane to think how good they'd be together.

Yep, but the Heat felt the same way... It all depends on what you give up... If the Mavs could keep most of their best players, and sign those two, then alright... But if they lose say Marion and Kidd in order to gain Howard and Williams, then it might not translate into a championship team...

Kidd might not even play beyond this season, and the Mavs could definitely use a very good PG like Williams in the near future, but if Kidd wants to play next season, then I say it's his job for as long as he wants it... Obviously Williams puts up better stats than the aging Kidd, but again, that doesn't always translate into making the team better... Kidd knows this team, and at this point, there's no PG in the league that is better suited to play with this team... Deron would be my next choice though... Everybody loves PG's that can average 20+ a game, but tell me, when's the last team a team won a championship with a scoring PG leading the way? It's been a long time...

In unrelated trade talk, I was listening to ESPN Radio the other day, and they were talking about how the Mavs would likely be non-factors at the trade deadline... That is unless something that was a no-brainer just fell in their lap... And the example that they used for a no-brainer trade, was trading Marion straight up for Ray Allen... I like Ray Allen, and would love to have him for depth in a playoff run, but there's no way in HELL I would trade Marion to get him! Am I crazy, or are they crazy?

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by adonis

And neither of those guys would win shit without having a 34-year old (and still at his prime) Nowitzki. Both aren't legit 1st option players and aren't good enough for Miami. They'd end up like Amar'e and Melo right now.

Uh what? Dwight's the second best player in the league, Deron's not a franchise savior alone but as a third piece he would be amazing, and very good as a second piece. And Dwight is much much better than Amare and Melo.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by cowboyuptx

Yep, but the Heat felt the same way... It all depends on what you give up... If the Mavs could keep most of their best players, and sign those two, then alright... But if they lose say Marion and Kidd in order to gain Howard and Williams, then it might not translate into a championship team...

Kidd might not even play beyond this season, and the Mavs could definitely use a very good PG like Williams in the near future, but if Kidd wants to play next season, then I say it's his job for as long as he wants it... Obviously Williams puts up better stats than the aging Kidd, but again, that doesn't always translate into making the team better... Kidd knows this team, and at this point, there's no PG in the league that is better suited to play with this team... Deron would be my next choice though... Everybody loves PG's that can average 20+ a game, but tell me, when's the last team a team won a championship with a scoring PG leading the way? It's been a long time...

In unrelated trade talk, I was listening to ESPN Radio the other day, and they were talking about how the Mavs would likely be non-factors at the trade deadline... That is unless something that was a no-brainer just fell in their lap... And the example that they used for a no-brainer trade, was trading Marion straight up for Ray Allen... I like Ray Allen, and would love to have him for depth in a playoff run, but there's no way in HELL I would trade Marion to get him! Am I crazy, or are they crazy?

Was espn radio the local station or was it a national broadcast? Just like liberals in the media cannot help but cover things from a liberal point of view, national media cannot help but over-value the local teams players. Iow they are crazy. If it was the local media then they aren't crazy, they are just stupid.

[Budapest Maverick]

The Heat maybe felt that way, but the truth is, their pieces aren't the greatest fit. Wade and Lebron are basically the other's SG, and SF version, the difference is that Lebron is a little bit better at everything (minus maybe attacking the rim). They don't compliment each other that well, if you think about it. They take turns basically, and still make it work, because they're great players, but the synergy between them, is nothing special.

With the 3D, it would be totally different. 2 guy at the two most important positions, perfect compliment to each other, on both ends. Dwight and Deron. Perfect synergy, pick&roll play, Deron's 3 point shooting, penetration. You could built a championship team around those 2, easily. But where it gets really interesting, you also have Dirk. The single best fit in the league next to Dwight. Dirk would give space Dwight, and vice-versa, and he happens to be the best fit for Dirk on the defensive end as well. It would be like Dirk-Tyson on steroids, on both ends! Perfect synergy.

Williams-Dirk? Pick&pop, all day long. Williams is one of the, if not the best penetrating point guard. A good 3 point shooter, a very efficient scorer (55TS%). Again, perfect synergy. I really don't think anybody could handle this trio. Would it mean an automatic championship? No, it would an adventure to fill out the roster with 3 huge contracts, but man, would we wanna see it?

[cowboyuptx]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Was espn radio the local station or was it a national broadcast? Just like liberals in the media cannot help but cover things from a liberal point of view, national media cannot help but over-value the local teams players. Iow they are crazy. If it was the local media then they aren't crazy, they are just stupid.

It was during local programming... Not sure who the host was though....

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by cowboyuptx

It was during local programming... Not sure who the host was though....

Sports radio is easily the worst source you can cite for rumors/opinions - those guys are paid to be controversial so people will tune in and they can sell more air time. Most of them are complete hacks, usually less informed than the average member of a web forum.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by cowboyuptx

Kidd might not even play beyond this season, and the Mavs could definitely use a very good PG like Williams in the near future, but if Kidd wants to play next season, then I say it's his job for as long as he wants it... Obviously Williams puts up better stats than the aging Kidd, but again, that doesn't always translate into making the team better... Kidd knows this team, and at this point, there's no PG in the league that is better suited to play with this team... Deron would be my next choice though... Everybody loves PG's that can average 20+ a game, but tell me, when's the last team a team won a championship with a scoring PG leading the way? It's been a long time...

Deron Williams has averaged 9.2 APG for his career and he's never played with scorers of Dirk or Dwight's caliber - he'd likely lead the league in assists if the three of them were on the same team.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by cowboyuptx

Everybody loves PG's that can average 20+ a game, but tell me, when's the last team a team won a championship with a scoring PG leading the way? It's been a long time...

Tony Parker.......

[endrity]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Deron Williams has averaged 9.2 APG for his career and he's never played with scorers of Dirk or Dwight's caliber - he'd likely lead the league in assists if the three of them were on the same team.

You know, people used to say that Magic was the last great PG who won a ring, Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Nash, Kidd all had failed to do so. Then Kidd did when he actually got a great scorer next to him.

They used to say you need 3 great stars to win a ring, and then Dirk 2011 happened.

Lesson? There are no magic formulas.

[AO41]

I thin a lot of people are underrating Williams becuz of the way it wenr down in Utah. Deron to me is the closest to a youn J Kidd. Big..steong..great passer and better scorer than Kidd was. I think thats why people make connections between the 2 so often. IMO he is in the same calss as Paul and Rose...sarround him with good talent and he will show that he is as good and sometimes bettr. We saw some of tht in Utah...and I think he would be a beast in Dallas.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by cowboyuptx

In unrelated trade talk, I was listening to ESPN Radio the other day, and they were talking about how the Mavs would likely be non-factors at the trade deadline... That is unless something that was a no-brainer just fell in their lap... And the example that they used for a no-brainer trade, was trading Marion straight up for Ray Allen... I like Ray Allen, and would love to have him for depth in a playoff run, but there's no way in HELL I would trade Marion to get him! Am I crazy, or are they crazy?

It's certainly not a no-brainer for this season as the Mavs are fine at shooting guard so this just creates more of logjam there while leaving us thin at small forward. But Ray Allen's contract does end after this year so you would have managed to solve the problem of how to get both Haywood and Marion's contract off the books next summer (all that would be left is to amnesty Haywood at that point).

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Uh what? Dwight's the second best player in the league,

Originally Posted by mavs777

And Dwight is much much better than Amare and Melo.

Watch this http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7509948 Nothing more to add.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Watch this http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7509948 Nothing more to add.

Skip Bayless??

Yeah, nothing more to add...

[markus1234]

Still true.

[jthig32]

The notion that Dwight Howard can't be the best player on a title contender is ludicrous. He already carried a team of role players (essentially) to the Finals. It's not ideal to rely on him as the primary offensive weapon, but he solves so many issues defensively that you can get awfully creative on the offensive end.

Don't let Otis Smith's failure at roster construction fool you, Dwight Howard is one of the easiest players in the NBA to build around.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The notion that Dwight Howard can't be the best player on a title contender is ludicrous. He already carried a team of role players (essentially) to the Finals. It's not ideal to rely on him as the primary offensive weapon, but he solves so many issues defensively that you can get awfully creative on the offensive end.

Carried "role players" is a myth.

He carried a bunch of really good players (..but could not make them even better)

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290604013

in a really weak eastern conference to the finals and got his butt kicked...by Pau Gas(l)ol.

Without all star help in crunch time he is helpless. He has no "go to" move, no consistency (during a long playoff run), and he is a horrible FT shooter....huge achilles heel late in the game.

Dwight's defense is also overrated. I'd take prime Marion defense any time over Dwight's defense. Vs Dwight all you need to do is score from OUTside... and laugh your ass off. To make it short, Dwight is a poor man's David Robinson.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Carried "role players" is a myth.

He carried a bunch of really good players (..but could not make them even better)

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290604013

in a really weak eastern conference to the finals and got his butt kicked...by Pau Gas(l)ol.

Without all star help in crunch time he is helpless. He has no "go to" move, no consistency (during a long playoff run), and he is a horrible FT shooter....huge achilles heel late in the game.

Dwight's defense is also overrated. I'd take prime Marion defense any time over Dwight's defense. Vs Dwight all you need to do is score from OUTside... and laugh your ass off.

I...I don't even....what???

What does that last sentence even mean?

I'll just keep it simple: You have no idea what you're talking about.

[4Dirk1Nowitzki]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Dwight's defense is also overrated. I'd take prime Marion defense any time over Dwight's defense. Vs Dwight all you need to do is score from OUTside... and laugh your ass off.

Marion can only guard one player at a time. Howard will protect the paint/basket through out the whole game and it won't matter who has the ball in their hands, he will be clogging up the paint and rebounding the whole game.

Did you not see what having an athletic center on your team does for you last year? We won it all because of the addition of TC. D12>TC in almost every aspect and TC was money for us last year.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by 4Dirk1Nowitzki

Marion can only guard one player at a time. Howard will protect the paint/basket through out the whole game and it won't matter who has the ball in their hands, he will be clogging up the paint and rebounding the whole game.

With Marion you can slow down "their best guy"...paint or perimeter, does not matter.

With Dwight you can protect the paint only. Dwight can't slow down Kobe, Allen or Durant come playoff time. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290604013

This aspect makes his defense overrated.

Originally Posted by 4Dirk1Nowitzki

Did you not see what having an athletic center on your team does for you last year? We won it all because of the addition of TC. D12>TC in almost every aspect and TC was money for us last year.

our "big zone" defense was money.

and

Marion was money
Stevenson was money
Kidd was money
(and Chandler too, of course)
-------

To make it short

Yes, Dwight Howard would be an amazing addition (Dwight+Dirk )
Yes, Dwight is better than Marion, Chandler or whatever
NO, Dwight is not the 2nd best player in this league.
NO, Dwight is not on Dirk's level until he proves me wrong.

That's all i am trying to say.

[mavs777]

Marion cannot slow down a big, LA, Pau all those good PF have their way with him. Dwight not only plays great one on one defense he is a terrific help defender which is why center defense is so much more important than wing defense.

[b_o_r]

I rather have both