The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LonghornDub · 12-29-2011, 02:07 PM

It would be pretty humorous if they both ended up in Dallas and one of the first highly public personas who predicted that on the record was Tracy McGrady.

clutch#41 · 12-29-2011, 03:00 PM

starting 5 in 2012.
Dwill
Tmac
Marion
dirk
Howard

Kidd Karma · 12-29-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clutch#41

starting 5 in 2012.
Dwill
Tmac
Marion
dirk
Howard

Just with his omnipresent prediction, we should bring him to get him his ring.

clutch#41 · 12-29-2011, 03:17 PM

yeah he took the vet minimum with atlanta. i can see him taking a one year deal with us next year. i prefered him over VC!!

DirkFTW · 12-29-2011, 04:30 PM

The heretofore unknown power of the Eye awakens!

Quote:

Tracy McGrady has Mavs' future mapped

According to a Yahoo! Sports report, McGrady envisions Nets point guard Deron Williams, who can become a free agent this summer along with Howard, joining up with Dirk Nowitzki and the Mavs. Once that happens, then McGrady says, the Mavs should go get Howard.

Kidd Karma · 12-29-2011, 06:25 PM

Found this piece to be interesting reading about Dallas being on Howard's resigning list:

http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/12/27/...-the-mavericks

LonghornDub · 12-29-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Found this piece to be interesting reading about Dallas being on Howard's resigning list:

http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/12/27/...-the-mavericks

Just a Nets fan trying to convince himself that NJ is competing against only LA for Dwight. The reasons he'd want to come to Dallas are obvious and plenty (not that it'll happen necessarily).

mavs777 · 12-29-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Just a Nets fan trying to convince himself that NJ is competing against only LA for Dwight. The reasons he'd want to come to Dallas are obvious and plenty (not that it'll happen necessarily).

Better question is why the nets? I mean there are quite a few teams with lots of cap space where deron and dwight fit in.

FINtastic · 12-29-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Better question is why the nets? I mean there are quite a few teams with lots of cap space where deron and dwight fit in.

Because they have a billionaire Russian owner who has the means to make them disappear should they refuse his most generous offer.

Kidd Karma · 12-29-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Better question is why the nets? I mean there are quite a few teams with lots of cap space where deron and dwight fit in.

yea, no history outside of the Kidd years. No following. Moving to a new location...unproven location Brooklyn. Trade to Nets, you only get Deron and little else, future shipped to Utah and probably the other half will go to Orlando, it'll be bare bones, no proven players. Is the Russian dude serious or not, Lebron said no, Bosh said no, Johnson said no? Mavs have kept Dirk happy, despite 1 ring, multiple 50 win seasons and several bad endings. Dirk never demanded out. JKidd demanded out of Jersey. Shaq got his butt escorted to the curb in LA.....Mavs keep the players happy. Yep, no doubt, better question is why the Brooklyn Nets? SMH

EricaLubarsky · 12-29-2011, 10:25 PM

That line tonight for Howard is sick.

16pts, 24reb, 3blk, 3stl, 3ast

LonghornDub · 12-30-2011, 12:42 AM

One scenario I was thinking about that I haven't heard talked about much: since Dallas would need to move at least one other contract besides amnestying Haywood to have room for both dudes, shouldn't we be expecting that they'll make a serious push to trade for one of them this season? Is there some reason that makes less sense than hoping to get to the summer with both of them as FAs and then doing a SnT for at least one?

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

One scenario I was thinking about that I haven't heard talked about much: since Dallas would need to move at least one other contract besides amnestying Haywood to have room for both dudes, shouldn't we be expecting that they'll make a serious push to trade for one of them this season? Is there some reason that makes less sense than hoping to get to the summer with both of them as FAs and then doing a SnT for at least one?

There is no way New Jersey trades Deron after how much they got rid of too get him, as for Dwight we don't have the pieces it seems, but you have to remember Dallas FO seems to keep everything quiet in terms of rumors.

FINtastic · 12-30-2011, 12:46 AM

Yeah, the nets are way too delusional right now to consider trading Deron.

LonghornDub · 12-30-2011, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Yeah, the nets are way too delusional right now to consider trading Deron.

I was thinking much more so about Dwight. I agree that we may not have the pieces. Just thinking aloud because we're gonna have to ship out a big contract (Marion) to have room for both anyway.

chumdawg · 12-30-2011, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

One scenario I was thinking about that I haven't heard talked about much: since Dallas would need to move at least one other contract besides amnestying Haywood to have room for both dudes, shouldn't we be expecting that they'll make a serious push to trade for one of them this season? Is there some reason that makes less sense than hoping to get to the summer with both of them as FAs and then doing a SnT for at least one?

Moving a contract for Howard or Williams? Who would agree to that?

LonghornDub · 12-30-2011, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Moving a contract for Howard or Williams? Who would agree to that?

I wouldn't think of it as "moving a contract" if it's Marion. He's a good player. Orlando's stated fairly clearly they want to contend. He can't be the only piece they get, of course, but he wouldn't be counterproductive to their goal.

Now the issue of whether another team can offer a better in-season package....that's the real problem. But "moving a contract" implies that we'd be just dumping salary, which isn't what I'm suggesting.

jthig32 · 12-30-2011, 01:17 AM

I think Marion's contract is pretty close to negative trade value at this point. But I do absolutely think that the Mavs will be pushing for a sign and trade for Dwight at the deadline. I just don't see a scenario in which they will have adequate assets, although Odom should be able to bring in some package of assets that could help.

chumdawg · 12-30-2011, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I wouldn't think of it as "moving a contract" if it's Marion. He's a good player. Orlando's stated fairly clearly they want to contend. He can't be the only piece they get, of course, but he wouldn't be counterproductive to their goal.

Now the issue of whether another team can offer a better in-season package....that's the real problem. But "moving a contract" implies that we'd be just dumping salary, which isn't what I'm suggesting.

Outside of Marion, what else would we send away that wouldn't be dumping salary? The cupboard is kinda bare.

LonghornDub · 12-30-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Marion's contract is pretty close to negative trade value at this point.

Think so? Maybe I'm being too favorable to him. He can't be the centerpiece, but I feel like he would have at least something to offer to a marginal team like that.

But maybe once he goes there he mails it in. That's close to what he did in Miami and Toronto, anyway....

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Outside of Marion, what else would we send away that wouldn't be dumping salary? The cupboard is kinda bare.

Odom is the other obvious guy. Throw in Roddy, a couple picks, maybe another young guy, and cash.....while I don't know if you can beat the other team's offers, you're probably at least somewhere in the ballpark ish. Like I said, this doesn't really cover the issue of whether it's the best offer they can get. Just thinking about whether the Mavs should be pursuing it extensively in-season, rather than waiting and hoping.

jthig32 · 12-30-2011, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Think so? Maybe I'm being too favorable to him. He can't be the centerpiece, but I feel like he would have at least something to offer to a marginal team like that.

But maybe once he goes there he mails it in. That's close to what he did in Miami and Toronto, anyway....

I see him as MLE type player, so he's overpaid at 8-9 Mil a year. He also has a 15% trade kicker.

And he's also not someone you can sell to the fanbase. He's a very ugly player at this point and is only going to be appreciated on a good team.

spreedom · 12-30-2011, 01:38 AM

I really think the only way we could get away with a straight salary dump on Marion would be if we sent Roddy and possibly even a pick with him. Or if we traded him straight up for Hedo in a side trade while also acquiring Dwight for Roddy + TE.

But either way, IF (and that is a huge if) we end up landing one or both of these guys, we'll basically be capped out with three guys on our roster, up against a very stiff luxury tax in the near future, and short on exceptions that we'll even be able to use to sign guys for anything but the minimum.

The best way to land Dwight might be an in-season trade wherein we absorb some unfavorable contracts from Orlando. But just about any scenario of that sort that I can dream up seems like it'd definitely be worth it.

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 02:50 AM

It will have to be a three team deal, the mavs alone don't have the pieces.

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 03:07 AM

I came up with a crazy proposal that would never happen.

Atlanta gets:
J.J Reddick (ORL)
Roddy Beaubois (Dal)
Jason Terry (DAL)
Sean Williams (DAL)

Orlando gets:
Lamar Odom (DAL)
Shawn Marion (DAL)
Richard Jefferson (SA)
Joe Johnson (ATL)

San Antoinio gets:
Zaza Pachulia (ATL)
Chris Duhon (ORL)

Dallas gets:
Dwight Howard (ORL)
Hedo Turkolo (ORL)

EricaLubarsky · 12-30-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

One scenario I was thinking about that I haven't heard talked about much: since Dallas would need to move at least one other contract besides amnestying Haywood to have room for both dudes, shouldn't we be expecting that they'll make a serious push to trade for one of them this season? Is there some reason that makes less sense than hoping to get to the summer with both of them as FAs and then doing a SnT for at least one?

Howard is gone by the deadline so if we want to get both, we need to think about trades this season. If it could be accomplished in the offseason then we could wait but orlAndo HAS to trade him. The nets just don't have the pieces but as long as they have a shot they aren't trading Williams so deron may well get to the offseason unscathed.

If we want either, we need Howard this season. Don't know if we have the pieces, but hes the first domino

Kidd Karma · 12-30-2011, 12:07 PM

Something's leaked that Orlando's willing to talk to anyone, not just those on Howard's list. Now if Orlando does that, they more or less is telling Howard's agent, screw you. I think it's probably just to drive the price up. No team is willing to give up too much for a half season rental.

Orlando has made it known to what to keep competing, so they will only take on development pieces, picks, etc and probalby use them in future trades, but they want solid top of the rotation players. Boobs takes over for Nelson, Marion takes over for Hedo. Odom goes to a 3rd team willing to ship out a center to Orlando. It's going to take 3 teams.

dude1394 · 12-30-2011, 12:08 PM

I don't think Orlando is interested in our flexibility. However just because Howard is gone doesn't necessarily mean he's signed a new extension but it is likely.

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Howard is gone by the deadline so if we want to get both, we need to think about trades this season. If it could be accomplished in the offseason then we could wait but orlAndo HAS to trade him. The nets just don't have the pieces but as long as they have a shot they aren't trading Williams so deron may well get to the offseason unscathed.

If we want either, we need Howard this season. Don't know if we have the pieces, but hes the first domino

Why? If Dwight goes to LA, chances are Deron is coming to Dallas.

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Something's leaked that Orlando's willing to talk to anyone, not just those on Howard's list. Now if Orlando does that, they more or less is telling Howard's agent, screw you. I think it's probably just to drive the price up. No team is willing to give up too much for a half season rental.

Orlando has made it known to what to keep competing, so they will only take on development pieces, picks, etc and probalby use them in future trades, but they want solid top of the rotation players. Boobs takes over for Nelson, Marion takes over for Hedo. Odom goes to a 3rd team willing to ship out a center to Orlando. It's going to take 3 teams.

atlanta supposedly has already offered them a deal centering around joe johnson and josh smith.

Kidd Karma · 12-30-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

atlanta supposedly has already offered them a deal centering around joe johnson and josh smith.

Howard still have hometown ties? I would think ORL would want Horford back in some form.

mavs777 · 12-30-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Howard still have hometown ties? I would think ORL would want Horford back in some form.

I think Atlanta would take the risk, they have been stuck in nuetral for a while still highly doubt he signs extension there though, agree that Orlando at the end would insist on Horford.

FINtastic · 12-30-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

atlanta supposedly has already offered them a deal centering around joe johnson and josh smith.

Too bad for Atlanta that Joe Johnson has zero trade value under this CBA.

rabbitproof · 12-30-2011, 11:59 PM

If we can land Fesenko, we sure are stockpiling young bigs. Any deets on the deals of Sean Williams? I know there is a team option on Wright for next year.

I get we need legitmate big depth but if nothing else, if you add Roddy and DoJo, we certainly have a good group of "youth assets" if we go for the trade option next year assuming they all improve their stock over the season.

grndmstr_c · 12-31-2011, 12:25 AM

I have to say, part of me wonders if Dallas isn't stockpiling all these young bigs in part as a way of ensuring that they won't be bereft of size if they end up dealing Haywood for an expiring at the trade deadline. Realistically, dealing him to a contending team in need of size is probably by far Dallas' best shot at clearing enough cap space to make a run at Deron + Dwight in the offseason. That's a risky game to play, but I don't doubt it's something Mark and Donnie are considering as an option.

LonghornDub · 12-31-2011, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have to say, part of me wonders if Dallas isn't stockpiling all these young bigs in part as a way of ensuring that they won't be bereft of size if they end up dealing Haywood for an expiring at the trade deadline. Realistically, dealing him to a contending team in need of size is probably by far Dallas' best shot at clearing enough cap space to make a run at Deron + Dwight in the offseason. That's a risky game to play, but I don't doubt it's something Mark and Donnie are considering as an option.

Now that's an interesting thought. And then what--amnesty Marion to make the remaining necessary cap space?

EricaLubarsky · 12-31-2011, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have to say, part of me wonders if Dallas isn't stockpiling all these young bigs in part as a way of ensuring that they won't be bereft of size if they end up dealing Haywood for an expiring at the trade deadline. Realistically, dealing him to a contending team in need of size is probably by far Dallas' best shot at clearing enough cap space to make a run at Deron + Dwight in the offseason. That's a risky game to play, but I don't doubt it's something Mark and Donnie are considering as an option.

Why not just waive Haywood for 100% cap space? Can't it be done at any time? I just figured they'd wait till this offseason so they can actually benefit from it.

If we can amnesty him at any time that is zero risk. Deron flies to Dallas? Cuban just uses his one-time amnesty and inks it up

grndmstr_c · 12-31-2011, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Now that's an interesting thought. And then what--amnesty Marion to make the remaining necessary cap space?

That's my thinking. Like I said, it'd be a serious gamble, and it's still an open question whether: a) Dallas could find a team that would give up an expiring for Haywood, and b) whether Orlando will hold on to Howard (or trade him to a team he wouldn't re-sign with) through the trade deadline. But I at least think the odds are better that they find a taker for Haywood than that they find one for Marion.

grndmstr_c · 12-31-2011, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Why not just waive Haywood for 100% cap space? Can't it be done at any time? I just figured they'd wait till this offseason so they can actually benefit from it.

If we can amnesty him at any time that is zero risk. Deron flies to Dallas? Cuban just uses his one-time amnesty and inks it up

Amnestying can only be done in the offseason. You're right that it's (potentially) zero risk (if you've got something else lined up at the time). I'm talking about the dream trio of Deron/Dirk/Dwight, though. That would almost certainly would require Dallas to unload either Marion or Wood for an expiring by the trade deadline so they could amnesty the other and clear all their high-dollar long-term commitments other than Dirk.

jthig32 · 12-31-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

That's my thinking. Like I said, it'd be a serious gamble, and it's still an open question whether: a) Dallas could find a team that would give up an expiring for Haywood, and b) whether Orlando will hold on to Howard (or trade him to a team he wouldn't re-sign with) through the trade deadline. But I at least think the odds are better that they find a taker for Haywood than that they find one for Marion.

I agree. My thinking all along has been that the only way to sign both is if they find someone willing to take Haywood for no long term salary.

At the same time, every good game from Roddy and Ian gives us a slightly better shot of swinging a trade for Howard. If they both establish themselves as young rotation players and Odom rebuilds his stock to the point that you could flip him for more young assets then things might get interesting.

mavs777 · 12-31-2011, 12:59 PM

I find it hard to believe we can trade Haywood without taking back a bad contract. He isn't bad but his contract is still clearly a net negative, who really expects him to be productive and a solid player in 2-3 years from now? It is more likely that we can package marion with a first rounder for a trade exception in the offseason. The idea has to be to make Ian/Dojo/Roddy intriguing to a third team that can then flip a second tier star like a gerald wallace to orlando or multiple third tier players like Paul Millsap and Devin Harris.