The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by b_o_r

Lamarcus has 3 years left on his deal....how is he even in discussion. He is Portland's franchise player. They have a cap space, in addition to 2 lottery picks.

Sounds like a good fit for DWill, actually.

[GhostFace]

I know all the signs point to Deron coming here, but what if that does not work out? Another two more seasons of fishing and rebuilding? I suppose, what's our back up plan?

[LonghornDub]

I have to say, the winds do seem to be shifting a bit. Not among anyone of importance, but Steve Kyler was 100% on Deron coming to Dallas, and now he's writing that Brooklyn is the favorite.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-tal...-free-agency-3

(Again, I don't think he really knows much, but it's worth noting at least for minor purposes.)

[Kante]

I really do not understand what Williams wants in Brooklyn. Just because new team/arena/logo, can't see it. Of have some players agreed to play there with him (Howard ?)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Kante

I really do not understand what Williams wants in Brooklyn. Just because new team/arena/logo, can't see it. Of have some players agreed to play there with him (Howard ?)

And maybe KG. Deron/KG/Howard would be pretty decent, but it's still very early. Fans just need to prepare themselves for the worst because anything can happen, but Dallas still has a good chance at landing him no matter what the reporters say.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I have to say, the winds do seem to be shifting a bit. Not among anyone of importance, but Steve Kyler was 100% on Deron coming to Dallas, and now he's writing that Brooklyn is the favorite.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-tal...-free-agency-3

(Again, I don't think he really knows much, but it's worth noting at least for minor purposes.)

Pooooooooooopsworld

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by Kante

I really do not understand what Williams wants in Brooklyn. Just because new team/arena/logo, can't see it. Of have some players agreed to play there with him (Howard ?)

Well, an additional $28MM of guaranteed money for one. That is just hard to pass up

[CanadianMavsFan]

The Nets must get Howard for Deron to stay, at least you would think. There must be at least a few teams on the brink of contention that could offer more for Dwight thought. The Knicks come to mind, wanting to move Stoudamire. If they made everyone available other than Melo I would think that it would be a more attractive offer than Brook Lopez+Marshon Brooks+picks (terrible package IMO).

[LonghornDub]

Stein quotes a source saying it's "at best 50-50" that Deron comes to Dallas.

I've believed from the start that Cuban, after delivering Dallas its first NBA crown and spending millions in luxury tax over his decade-plus in charge to get there, has more than earned the right to try to build a team any new way he sees fit. Yet the huge risk remains for him that Dallas has no fish of consequence to pursue if Williams chooses to stay with the Nets, who can offer one more season contractually than the Mavs along with added marketing opportunities because of their new address.

One source well-acquainted with Williams' thinking told ESPN.com this weekend that the Mavericks, in their current state, have no better than a "50-50 shot" of getting D-Will's signature in July ... despite the fact that the Nets aren't any closer to landing Howard than they are.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...505/daily-dime

[LonghornDub]

Stein quotes a source saying it's "at best 50-50" that Deron comes to Dallas.

I've believed from the start that Cuban, after delivering Dallas its first NBA crown and spending millions in luxury tax over his decade-plus in charge to get there, has more than earned the right to try to build a team any new way he sees fit. Yet the huge risk remains for him that Dallas has no fish of consequence to pursue if Williams chooses to stay with the Nets, who can offer one more season contractually than the Mavs along with added marketing opportunities because of their new address.

One source well-acquainted with Williams' thinking told ESPN.com this weekend that the Mavericks, in their current state, have no better than a "50-50 shot" of getting D-Will's signature in July ... despite the fact that the Nets aren't any closer to landing Howard than they are.

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...505/daily-dime

[xrobx]

i'll take 50-50

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Stein quotes a source saying it's "at best 50-50" that Deron comes to Dallas.



http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/p...505/daily-dime

That is strangely deflating and encouraging at the same time.

We have a 50-50 shot of landing a superstar to play next to Dirk? That's pretty awesome.

On the flip side, we'll probably just have to shut down the board if Deron re-sign with the Nets.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

That is strangely deflating and encouraging at the same time.

We have a 50-50 shot of landing a superstar to play next to Dirk? That's pretty awesome.

On the flip side, we'll probably just have to shut down the board if Deron re-sign with the Nets.

My thoughts exactly. 50-50 is pretty damn good odds for the team he doesn't currently play for. At the same time, that leaves a lot to chance. It's going to be pandemonium if he stays in Brooklyn.

He did tweet a pic of himself in his Josh Hamilton jersey this morning. So, you know, he's obviously coming to Dallas.

[MavsFTR]

For what it's worth, Deron just tweeted a pic of himself in a Hamilton jersey.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

A 50-50 shot is as good as you can ask for considering we just got swept in the first round. So much can change in two months though that it isn't worth the fan base freaking out every second until it arrives. The more important issue is the plan B in case WIlliams stays. As has been mentioned, you could probably split Williams offer with Dragic/Kaman. 7 mil for Dragic and 10 for Kaman. Those would be two significant upgrades at positions of need.

Just remember that many, many fans thought the Dust chip was wasted acquiring Chandler over a star like Lebron. A plan b can often be the better choice if orchestrated wisely.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

A 50-50 shot is as good as you can ask for considering we just got swept in the first round. So much can change in two months though that it isn't worth the fan base freaking out every second until it arrives. The more important issue is the plan B in case WIlliams stays. As has been mentioned, you could probably split Williams offer with Dragic/Kaman. 7 mil for Dragic and 10 for Kaman. Those would be two significant upgrades at positions of need.

Just remember that many, many fans thought the Dust chip was wasted acquiring Chandler over a star like Lebron. A plan b can often be the better choice if orchestrated wisely.

Excellent points here. Not getting Deron would hurt, and it would throw the media and fan base around here into a tizzy. But we'll still have an incredible amount of options for next season. It won't just be free agents, either. There will be trades available to us as well.

Personally, I'm greatly looking forward to this off season to see how this team gets re-built.

[dude1394]

That is a real interesting tweet by deron with a Hamilton jersey on. Clever marketing there young man.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

There is a strange confidence in getting Williams that is fascinating to me. My regular bar tender at the AAC says it with 100% confidence. A guy I know who is probably one of the few bigger Mavs fans than me says it the same way. I just hope people aren't setting themselves up for disappointment. Williams would be the most beloved sports figure here for turning town 30 extra million dollars to come home. That is a looooot of money to walk away from.

[jthig32]

I enjoyed this.

Bryan Gutierrez ‏ @BallinWithBryan
Shawn Marion's recruiting pitch to Deron Williams: "Get your ass home! Home is where the heart is."

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Excellent points here. Not getting Deron would hurt, and it would throw the media and fan base around here into a tizzy. But we'll still have an incredible amount of options for next season. It won't just be free agents, either. There will be trades available to us as well.

Personally, I'm greatly looking forward to this off season to see how this team gets re-built.

I think a lot of people are forgetting this. Cuban and Donnie have made crazy (and mostly good moves) over the past 10 years WITHOUT cap space. I personally can't wait to see what happens now that he has some flexibility.

[rabbitproof]

GOD PLEASE LET US GET DERON WILLIAMS.

That is all.

[GhostFace]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

There is a strange confidence in getting Williams that is fascinating to me. My regular bar tender at the AAC says it with 100% confidence. A guy I know who is probably one of the few bigger Mavs fans than me says it the same way. I just hope people aren't setting themselves up for disappointment. Williams would be the most beloved sports figure here for turning town 30 extra million dollars to come home. That is a looooot of money to walk away from.

It is a lot of money, but I do vaguely remember Williams making it clear at this point in his career he just wants to win... money or winning... money or winning...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by GhostFace

It is a lot of money, but I do vaguely remember Williams making it clear at this point in his career he just wants to win... money or winning... money or winning...

Where does the extra 30million come from? An extra 2 years?

[CapitanObvious]

Is Roy Hibbert available? I think he is a free agent. I would take him over D.Howard any day.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by CapitanObvious

Is Roy Hibbert available? I think he is a free agent. I would take him over D.Howard any day.

Restricted FA I believe. He should be staying a Pacer.

[OneLove22]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Where does the extra 30million come from? An extra 2 years?

Ya I didn't understand that. He should get a max even in Dallas.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

A 50-50 shot is as good as you can ask for considering we just got swept in the first round. So much can change in two months though that it isn't worth the fan base freaking out every second until it arrives. The more important issue is the plan B in case WIlliams stays. As has been mentioned, you could probably split Williams offer with Dragic/Kaman. 7 mil for Dragic and 10 for Kaman. Those would be two significant upgrades at positions of need.

Just remember that many, many fans thought the Dust chip was wasted acquiring Chandler over a star like Lebron. A plan b can often be the better choice if orchestrated wisely.

It would be a nice possibility.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by CapitanObvious

Is Roy Hibbert available? I think he is a free agent. I would take him over D.Howard any day.

Can't tell if serious.


On Kyler front he has said that the Nets people are insistant that Deron will resign.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

Originally Posted by OneLove22

Ya I didn't understand that. He should get a max even in Dallas.

I think it's b/c we can offer 4 years @ $81MM and NJ can offer 5 years @ $109MM (or something like that). So ~$28MM difference in guaranteed $

[LonghornDub]

The extra money comes from the extra year, which I'm almost positive Deron himself has said is completely irrelevant to him (although I don't have the quote on hand).

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

I think it's b/c we can offer 4 years @ $81MM and NJ can offer 5 years @ $109MM (or something like that). So ~$28MM difference in guaranteed $

What does that look like after taxes?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The extra money comes from the extra year, which I'm almost positive Deron himself has said is completely irrelevant to him (although I don't have the quote on hand).

I can't find any quotes from him on the topic of money, but he's certainly mentioned that winning is a priority:

“I want to win, that’s first and foremost. So I’m going to go where I feel we have the best chance to win. I know we might not win a championship in the first year or two, but hopefully, has the chances of building something special, and has flexibility — just somewhere where I believe they’re headed in the right direction.’’

Are the Nets heading in the right direction?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

What does that look like after taxes?

Yep, he'd have to pay the 7.7% state tax and 3.6% city tax for a total of 11.3% more of his money going into taxes if he stayed in NYC (which would be applicable to all home games and anytime they played the Knicks...)

And that's not even considering the price of property, property taxes or the base price of everything from gas to groceries...

[LonghornDub]

I'm not going to crunch numbers, but his effective income in Dallas would be substantially higher than in Brooklyn. Not even all that close, I'd guess.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

What does that look like after taxes?

New Jersey can offer 5 years max with 7.5% raises. (post state/city tax in parentheses)
2012-2013 17.586m (15.739m)
2013-2014 18.905m (16.920m)
2014-2015 20.323m (18.189m)
2015-2016 21.847m (19.553m)
(23.486m)
-----------------
78.661m over 4 years/ 102m over 5 (91.290m)
(70.401m) over 4 years (moderate property tax)

Deron would be in the highest tax bracket and would pay 6.85% in state and 3.648% city for a total of 10.5% tax over the federal. The irony is that the move to Brooklyn increases the tax rate from 8.95% in Newark to 10.5% in Brooklyn.

Dallas can offer 4 years with only 4.5% raises
2012-2013 17.095m (17.095m)
2013-2014 17.864m (17.864m)
2014-2015 18.668m (18.668m)
2015-2016 19.508m (19.508m)
----------
73.135m over 4 years
(73.135m) over 4 years (higher property tax)

So despite significantly more money in Brooklyn in the first four years, Deron would actually take home 3million more in Dallas with smaller raises. You have to take into account property taxes, but if he rented or had reasonable real estate holdings in Texas, he could still come out ahead here, and let's not consider the difference in what you could get for a million in either city. If Deron doesn't care about the 5th year, then Texas wouldnt be a bad location to be, or with full Bird rights we could extend him for a year at a 7.5% raise so the 5 year totals would be:
(91.29) Brooklyn
(94.106m) Dallas.

Still coming out ahead for us.


Still, as Dude has said ad nauseum, players prefer years to money, but I don't want to summon that debate again.
If its about team direction, NJ is headed in the wrong one. You could debate Dallas'
If its about quality of living, Dallas and Brooklyn offer different things but I'd prefer Dallas and you can get a lot more property for your buck in Dallas-FW. Nice if you want to have a family.
If its about cold, hard cash, Deron would actually take home more money in Dallas with smaller pay checks.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, he'd have to pay the 7.7% state tax and 3.6% city tax for a total of 11.3% more of his money going into taxes if he stayed in NYC (which would be applicable to all home games and anytime they played the Knicks...)

And that's not even considering the price of property, property taxes or the base price of everything from gas to groceries...

I could be wrong, but it's the location of employer and primary venue (Newark/Brooklyn) for sports-related income and not location of the game.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I could be wrong, but it's the location of employer and primary venue (Newark/Brooklyn) for sports-related income and not location of the game.

It actually is, more or less, the location of the game. Most states charge a jock tax on away-game participants, and you can use this to get a tax credit in your home state. So effectively, you're paying home-state taxes for your 41 home games only.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It actually is, more or less, the location of the game. Most states charge a jock tax on away-game participants, and you can use this to get a tax credit in your home state. So effectively, you're paying home-state taxes for your 41 home games only.

Wouldn't that be essentially paying your hometown's taxes for the purposes of calculating amount paid in taxes rather than who the taxes are paid to? The money goes elsewhere but if you can deduct the 6% that you pay in Arizona when playing in Phoenix from your 10.5% New York, you'd still be responsible for the remainder of taxes owed, wouldn't you?

I believe you'd still owe the 10.5% tax, but in states with lesser income tax, you'd pay a fraction to that state and the rest to your home state, so your net tax amount would remain unchanged. If you were paying 10.5% tax in every state, you'd essentially paying half your taxes to other states and half to your home state (NY), but you'd still be paying essentially the same sum?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, he'd have to pay the 7.7% state tax and 3.6% city tax for a total of 11.3% more of his money going into taxes if he stayed in NYC (which would be applicable to all home games and anytime they played the Knicks...)

And that's not even considering the price of property, property taxes or the base price of everything from gas to groceries...

Suddenly, I want to support hefty new taxes on the rich in New York! Pay your fair share, you lousy Yankee 1%ers! Occupy Brooklyn!

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Suddenly, I want to support hefty new taxes on the rich in New York! Pay your fair share, you lousy Yankee 1%ers! Occupy Brooklyn!

forget the 1%. Deron's salary would put him in the 0.09%! As long as they get taxed to hell and Texas keeps its income taxes non-existent, I think we could really swing a deal.

A 1% tax increase for the 0.9% could give us another 1million to waive under his nose! Once he signs here, then vote to repeal it