Lost Opportunity!!!

[Male30Dan]

He is not a shut-down corner, but man would he have been better than the situation we currently have!!!

Here ya go!

Monday, October 4, 2004

Associated Press
Mike McKenzie got his wish Monday when he was traded to the New Orleans Saints for a second-round pick in 2005 and a backup quarterback.

"It's time to move on," Green Bay Packers coach/general manager Mike Sherman said.

Since ending his holdout without retracting his trade request three weeks ago, McKenzie has been paid more than $485,000 but has played just nine snaps, all against Chicago. That has led fans -- and teammates -- to wonder whether he was still holding out but getting paid anyway.

The recalcitrant cornerback sat out the last two games with a mysterious hamstring injury. He was left home when the Packers traveled to Indianapolis two weeks ago and wasn't on the sideline Sunday when the Packers lost to the New York Giants at home.

"Mission accomplished," McKenzie's agent, Drew Rosenhaus told The Associated Press. "It's important to relay that there's no hard feelings on Mike's behalf. He's obviously grateful they were able to work out a deal, and there's certainly not going to be any backbiting or any negativity on our behalf."

Rosenhaus said McKenzie will play under the terms of his current contract, but he hopes to have talks with Saints general manager Mickey Loomis soon about an upgrade.

"[Loomis] understands the dynamics that went into Mike's situation: His contract was obviously an issue," Rosenhaus said. "We hope to get that resolved; whether that happens this season or in the winter, I'm not going to make that an issue. We are certainly not going to try to squeeze the Saints right now in regard to the contract."

The Packers acquired quarterback J.T. O'Sullivan, 25, and the second-round selection in the 2005 draft in return for McKenzie, 28, and a future conditional draft choice. The Packers have been interested in O'Sullivan since the Saints took him in the sixth round of the 2002 draft out of Cal-Davis.

Their interest was heightened when Brett Favre and backup Doug Pederson were injured Sunday. Favre has a mild concussion and is expected to practice this week and extend his record starting streak to 213 games, counting playoffs, against Tennessee next week. But Pederson was undergoing further tests Monday on his ribs and kidneys.

The deal is the Packers' first midseason trade in 23 years involving active players from both teams.

McKenzie, who is earning $2.75 million this year in the middle season of a five-year, $17.1 million deal he signed in January 2002, became upset when several cornerbacks of lesser talent surpassed him in compensation this offseason.

McKenzie instructed agent Brian Parker to seek a contract renegotiation in February, converting a $200,000 workout bonus into two $100,000 roster bonuses due in April and June and removing a de-escalator clause from the contract he signed in 2002.

As the Packers worked to comply with the request, McKenzie said he wanted to be traded instead. Green Bay denied his plea on April 6 and two weeks later drafted cornerbacks Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas with their first two selections.

Parker terminated his working relationship with McKenzie in May, and the cornerback hired Rosenhaus, his fifth representative in his six-year NFL career.

McKenzie, a starter for Green Bay since his rookie year, has 15 career interceptions. He comes off one of his most productive seasons with four interceptions, 58 tackles (55 solo) and 20 passes broken up. He was Green Bay's best defender last year and Sherman could have kept him beyond the Oct. 19 trade deadline to get one more year out of him. But McKenzie had become even more of a loner in the locker room and Sherman decided to cut ties now.

How are the Packers (1-3) better off without their best cover cornerback?

"Well, I just think from having things cleaned up," Sherman said. "As I said, from the outside in, the focus that's been put on that, everything that Mike did or didn't do was well-documented every day. And we don't have to deal with that anymore."

[dirno2000]

Not interested.

1) He's a pretty good corner that wants to be paid like a great corner.
2) He sounds like a sorry guy
3) I don't want to go into the draft without a 2nd or 3rd pick.

[Male30Dan]

1) He's a very good corner that wants to be paid like a great corner...
2) Agreed, but Bill could take care of that IMO...
3) I think its worth it when you look at how teams pick us apart on Sundays...

Dont understimate this guys abilities... He is no shut-down corner, but he is damn talented!

[dirno2000]

I don't watch Green Bay week in and week out. I do know he's been in the league 5 years and never made the Pro Bowl.

Not saying he wouldn't be an improvement, I'm just not a proponent of trading away prime draft picks unless you're getting a young player. We have to continue to build trough the draft.

[alby]

please have faith in Big Bill, he knows what hes doing =]

[Male30Dan]

Well, Im not in favor of being torn apart week in and week out because ONE POSITION on our defense sucks ass... I want someone with a name and abilities that can come in and immediately help out and offer a little intimidation... I dont want to lose 6-8 games this year based on that very lack of talent... Im sorry, but in my opinion he is worthy of a second round pick...

Have you seen our guys try to cover the opposing teams wide receivers??? THEY DONT EVEN LOOK BACK...

By the way... A lot of good CBs worthy of second round picks havent made the pro bowl...

[dirno2000]

Well, Im not in favor of being torn apart week in and week out because ONE POSITION on our defense sucks ass... I want someone with a name and abilities that can come in and immediately help out and offer a little intimidation... I dont want to lose 6-8 games this year based on that very lack of talent... Im sorry, but in my opinion he is worthy of a second round pick...

If our team is torn apart, it won't be because of one position. Hell, Terrance Newman got beat for a touchdown becaue he gave up on a play. It happens, cornerbacks get beat.

Also, if we don't get any pass rush, it doesn't matter who is playing corner. We'd be wasting money by paying two big money corners.

And if you think Mckenzie intimidates NFL receivers I don't know what to tell you. If a guy is imtimated that easily, he won't be in the league long.

Have you seen our guys try to cover the opposing teams wide receivers??? THEY DONT EVEN LOOK BACK...

You don't necessarily have to look back on a deep route to play proper technique. If your man has a step on you, looking back slows you down. You run full speed and when he puts his hands up, you get an arm up between his hands. I'll agree they've made some bad plays (ie. the Tony Dixon interference call on Moss) but they're still on the learning curve.

Jacques has only played one game...give the kid a chance, he played 89 plays Monday night. I've seen some things I like in him.

By the way... A lot of good CBs worthy of second round picks havent made the pro bowl...

I'd agree if our team was further along, but I really don't think he'd make that much of a difference. This still probably isn't a superbowl team.

Build through the draft and keep your power dry as far as the salary cap. That's how the Pats and Eagles did it and that's the way it should be done in the salary cap era. That guy is not worth a 2nd runder andover 3mil per year.

...one more thing...does it not concern you that this guy appears to have just quit on his team becaue 3mil wasn't enough?

[Male30Dan]

1) Have you been watching our games??? Did you watch Minnesota score at will??? Did you watch Brunell almost single handedly take the game over in the second half??? Thank God for the game that Garcia decided to sleep through, or we would likely be 1-2... Our Defense is mediocre ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CB POSITION... Our team, (and the opposition by the way), knows we can't cover the receivers, so instead of rushing our LBs/SSs, we are forced to leave everyone back in coverage and pray that our front 4 can get penetration, (which I think all of us knows will not happen consistently)... We arent the Eagles or the Bucs... We can't rely on a pass rush from our main four guys... They are great tacklers, but just dont have the agility/speed to get by their guys... It just WONT happen... With our team we NEED to be able to rush in LBs and SSs... It is just MANDATORY... The problem is you can NOT do that if your CBs leave a guy WIDE open... And let me repeat a key word... WIDE... Wide open... The guys are so open that you watch our CBs SPRINT to all hell to just get close enough to intefere... They SUCK... You are a complete homer if you think ANY different... Newman is talented, and hopefully has a great future ahead of him; HOWEVER, he has failed to show me anything significant enough to view him as anything more than a VERY good #2 CB or a Descent #1... Regarding McKenzie intimidating guys, I dont mean like a Bailey does, I just mean much, MUCH more so than someone like Hunter/Jacques could... These guys are just BEGGING QBs to beat them with their HUGE lack of talent AND confidence... What a joke...

2) Yeah... OK... You dont have to look back to play good defense... Maybe you can just get lucky 30% of the time and hope the QB misses the rest of the throws... Give me a break... AGAIN, our CBs are SO FAR OUT OF POSITION THAT THEY ARE FORCED NOT TO LOOK BACK BECAUSE IF THEY DO THEY WOULD NEVER CATCH THE WR TO TACKLE THEM... I must admit, I have seen some things I like about some of our young guys too, but not enough to assume they will pan out into anything other than a mediocre nickel back/descent special teams guys...

3) Well, I guess you just underestimate our team... I think with a VERY GOOD CB, you have a team, (when Woody gets back), that can win games on defense alone... You put that with an up and coming Bryant, a big-catch receiver in Johnson, a GREAT TE in Witten, and FINALLY, a QB that can keep us in games without making stupid mistakes, (minus the Cleveland game in the second half - PLEASE DONT KEEP THIS UP VINNY), and you have a very good team... Are we SuperBowl contenders??? Probably not... NOW... But you add a guy in our backfield that is better than Newman and now you have the QB having to pick on Newman, (much better than FILL IN SORRY ROOKIE CB)... If we get into a big game against a team like Philly in the playoffs, and our defense is good enough to stop Philly's offense, anything can happen... After all, did you REALLY think Carolina was good enough to damn near win the Super Bowl??? Why did they get there??? A GREAT defense and a consistent offense... Sure, they had a good running game too, (that we may or may not get when Jones comes back), but we still have a good chance if we can stay healthy and prevent teams from actually looking forward to playing our CBs... It truly has become a sad situation... Be honest... How many times have you seen the opposing QB this year throw a ball up in which you said THATS A TD OR A PASS INTEFERENCE CALL... I can't count the times on my fingers... Again, its sad! Regarding him quitting on his team, I dont think that is a great thing to see, but keep in mind Emmitt did the same thing for two games the year we won our second super bowl... He turned out OK... Did I just compare one of the best RBs in the history of football to a very good CB??? Yes, but my point is that they both had the same intentions... To hold out for more money because they thought they were worth more than they were getting paid...

Bottom line... I think a guy like McKenzie could help put the Cowboys on the next level... Right now, we aren't even necessarily penciled in as a playoff team... You take that team and put a very good CB with an up and coming CB in Newman, and you are on your way to building something special when you factor in the rest of our defense... That type of a move puts you with the teams that have a chance, but arent necessarily favorites... Just ask Carolina what that can do for you!

[dirno2000]

1) Have you been watching our games???

No need to be condescending...yes I watch the games...usually a couple of times.

[/quote]Did you watch Minnesota score at will???[/quote]Yes I did and I'm sure McKenzie could have stopped Moss...that's why GB often doubles him at the line as if he's covering a punt. Guess what...TD's going to do the same thing.

Did you watch Brunell almost single handedly take the game over in the second half???

As I pointed out, that wasn't all Reeves. He competed well. Look, the kid thinks he's a reserve and all of a sudden he's plaing 89 games on MNF. Give him some time. Garnder got a way with a couple of push offs too.

Thank God for the game that Garcia decided to sleep through, or we would likely be 1-2...

Yea, Garcia's performance had nothing to do with our defense.

Our Defense is mediocre ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CB POSITION...

You couldn't be more wrong. We have one of the worst pass rushes in the NFL. That is the story. I'll give you any two corners you want with mediocre ends and you give me guys that can get to the passer and I'll take my defense every time...every time. Pass rushers are more important than "cover corners". You give any decent QB time and he will pick you apart.

Our team, (and the opposition by the way), knows we can't cover the receivers, so instead of rushing our LBs/SSs, we are forced to leave everyone back in coverage and pray that our front 4 can get penetration, (which I think all of us knows will not happen consistently)...

Bingo

[/quote]We arent the Eagles or the Bucs... We can't rely on a pass rush from our main four guys... They are great tacklers, but just dont have the agility/speed to get by their guys... It just WONT happen... With our team we NEED to be able to rush in LBs and SSs... It is just MANDATORY...[quote]
It's also a sign of weakness. Obviously you see the problem.

The problem is you can NOT do that if your CBs leave a guy WIDE open... And let me repeat a key word... WIDE... Wide open... The guys are so open that you watch our CBs SPRINT to all hell to just get close enough to intefere... They SUCK... You are a complete homer if you think ANY different... Newman is talented, and hopefully has a great future ahead of him; HOWEVER, he has failed to show me anything significant enough to view him as anything more than a VERY good #2 CB or a Descent #1...

So we need two corners?

Look man, I know our corners need to improve, but they are young enough to do so. I just don't think you value draft picks and cap flexibility enough. That's what's going to sustain the team long term. Would I like Mckenzie, yes...Is he worth his and GB's asking price, no he's not.

Keep in mind that right now we're not spending money on two big money positions: QB and RB. We need to keep cap flexibility so that if Henson is as good as some people think he is, we can compensate him without gutting our team.

Regarding McKenzie intimidating guys, I dont mean like a Bailey does, I just mean much, MUCH more so than someone like Hunter/Jacques could... These guys are just BEGGING QBs to beat them with their HUGE lack of talent AND confidence... What a joke...

Again, NFL receivers worth thier salt don't get intimidated. and It's not like McKenzie is Deon in his prime...he's a guy. As far as Bailey, he was made to look foolish by a rookie this weekend...if it would have happened to one of our corners, you would have been on their asses. Again, corners get beat, even the good ones.

Bottom line... I think a guy like McKenzie could help put the Cowboys on the next level... Right now, we aren't even necessarily penciled in as a playoff team... You take that team and put a very good CB with an up and coming CB in Newman, and you are on your way to building something special when you factor in the rest of our defense... That type of a move puts you with the teams that have a chance, but arent necessarily favorites... Just ask Carolina what that can do for you!

Carolina is a good example of how a team with bad corners can go to the Super Bowl with a great front four. One of my co-workers is a Panters fan and all he talked about last season was how their corners were garbage. You get a guy like Peppers on the end and he can make up for it. We need to hope we draft high enough to pick up a rush end like Pollack from Georgia.

We'll just have to disagree on this. I don't see McKenzie as a put you over the top type player.

[Fah Q]

Bottom line, would you draft McKenzie with the second round pick next year? I would.

[Male30Dan]

Ditto!

[dirno2000]

Really?

Are you considering that he'll be 29 and that you'll have to play him like a high 1st rounder?

Couldn't disagree more.

[Male30Dan]

Thats your opinion... Im glad you have your own, or this would be a boring place, but frankly, I think he is worth the price that was paid for him and I wish Dallas would have paid it... I could specifically argue with just about every point you made on my BOOK post, but I wont try to change your opinion when it is likely impossible even if I make a good case, (which I have by the way)!!!

On a side note, I haven't mentioned it in any other thread, but what a kick ass avatar!!!

[alby]

Quite ironic though, last year our CB position was showing so much promise. Newman as a rookie, DRoss coming back from a great rookie season, and Mario Edwards. But like I said earlier, Parcells knows what he is doing, just have faith in him. =]

[Male30Dan]

Oh how I wish we still had Ross and Edwards... As average as they were, at least they were better than Hunter/Rookie CB