Amare a no-show at Suns Sunday practice - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsX · 01-09-2008, 12:44 PM

shhhh

MavsX · 01-09-2008, 12:45 PM

...

MavsX · 01-09-2008, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxsuns

No, I'm saying that Nash is great, but that he doesn't make any of our players. They developed their own skills before Nash got here and should be given credit for being the good players they are. Likewise, none of them made Nash the player that he is.

I love Nash, but Nash gets far too much credit in the national media. Quite frankly its an insult to any player on our team to say stupid things like 'he's nothing without Nash'. And I would imagine that a lot of our players get ticked off reading and hearing things like that.

Players can play, no matter who the PG is. If you're good, you're good.

I'd say only about 4-6 of Amare's points come off the pick and roll. It use to be much higher. But other teams are packing the paint now and forcing Nash to run around a little more and pass it to our wingman. Plus, our coach wants the offense to be spread out more amongst our players for some silly reason. Thus he doesn't call for the pick and roll as much anymore.

Amare is not just a pick and roll player. The Amare Dallas remembers was an Amare who ran that pick and roll to death, then killed anyone who tried to stop him when he got within 5 feet of the rim. That Amare was an athletic phenom who was more physical than mental, but depite his rawness was just so overpowering physically that it didn't matter. He saught to not just score on you, but humiliate and intimidate you. He'd laugh at you when he clowned you, he'd give you long stares to embarass you. In a lot of ways, clowing you was more important than scoring on you. So he'd always go for the spectacular play first, instead of the most effective play.

Amare today is a world class, polished, all Nba basketball player. Possessing a kiler jumper extending to the 3 point line, post moves such as the jump hook/ up and under/spin, not just a player who can only dunk on you.. but now he has combined his dunking ability with the best finese game of any center in the NBA. He no longer cares about embarassing you, he just wants to score on you anyway he can. He no longer gives immature stares after he clowns someone, he just turns and goes the other way. Piss him off though and he'll start clowning you.

He's averaging a career high in FG percentage, blocks, 3 pt percentage, and FT%. Is averaging a career low in turnovers, and is the 3rd most efficient player in the entire NBA. I said player, not just center.

This is a guy that just came off a scope a 2 months ago. Kobe got a scope before training camp last season and it took him a full 2 months before he started beasting like usual. So that means that all of Amare's numbers are set to rise from here on out.

Insult Amare all you want, but this is the same player who not only can tear apart the league in the regular season, but he has another gear for the playoffs. Amare's playoff numbers puts KG or any other big you can think of in this generation's NBA to shame. I would venture to say that only Shaq's career playoff numbers are better.

BLACK JESUS!!!!!

AMEN

dude1394 · 01-09-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxsuns

I'd say only about 4-6 of Amare's points come off the pick and roll. It use to be much higher. But other teams are packing the paint now and forcing Nash to run around a little more and pass it to our wingman. Plus, our coach wants the offense to be spread out more amongst our players for some silly reason. Thus he doesn't call for the pick and roll as much anymore.

Amare is not just a pick and roll player. The Amare Dallas remembers was an Amare who ran that pick and roll to death, then killed anyone who tried to stop him when he got within 5 feet of the rim. That Amare was an athletic phenom who was more physical than mental, but depite his rawness was just so overpowering physically that it didn't matter. He saught to not just score on you, but humiliate and intimidate you. He'd laugh at you when he clowned you, he'd give you long stares to embarass you. In a lot of ways, clowing you was more important than scoring on you. So he'd always go for the spectacular play first, instead of the most effective play..

Ah come on...go check this site for his shotchart.
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

He's taken 435 fga's, 256 were within 3 feet of the basket.

Marions about the same 437 shots, 244 within 3 feet.

Nash serves 'em up sweetly.

jthig32 · 01-09-2008, 05:15 PM

Definitely agree with Dirno here. Nash benefites from Marion and Amare just as much as they benefit from him.

Five years from now, if the Suns don't win a title, and Nash is gone, I guarantee you people will wonder what could have been if they never signed Nash, if they got a solid center, played Amare at the 4 and Marion at the 3, and played some defense. And it will be a legitimate question.

Nash did not turn average players into great players when he got to Phoenix.

dude1394 · 01-11-2008, 12:52 AM

yea little stevie sucks. That's why at the middle of the fourth, the suns have 13 total assists, which is what, 1 more than stevie averages.

Oh...and they are getting whupped by 25+.

alby · 01-11-2008, 01:08 AM

Without Nash, the guy still dropped 21 points and 14 rebounds on Okur/Boozer in three quarters. Not bad if you ask me.

chumdawg · 01-11-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Definitely agree with Dirno here. Nash benefites from Marion and Amare just as much as they benefit from him.

Five years from now, if the Suns don't win a title, and Nash is gone, I guarantee you people will wonder what could have been if they never signed Nash, if they got a solid center, played Amare at the 4 and Marion at the 3, and played some defense. And it will be a legitimate question.

Nash did not turn average players into great players when he got to Phoenix.

Do you honestly believe that? Do you really believe that a "solid center" would have done more for them than Nash did? If so, who do you suggest they should have got? Dampier? Who else was available at the time? Or, should they have waited until one became available?

I'm pretty sure that Phoenix is happy with the way things have gone down, title in five years or not.

jthig32 · 01-11-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Do you honestly believe that? Do you really believe that a "solid center" would have done more for them than Nash did? If so, who do you suggest they should have got? Dampier? Who else was available at the time? Or, should they have waited until one became available?

I'm pretty sure that Phoenix is happy with the way things have gone down, title in five years or not.

All I said is it would be a valid "what if". I'm not saying a solid center at the expense of any kind of upgrade at PG. What if they had saved money on Nash and actually kept their draft picks? Who knows what they could have found.

I'm simply saying that Nash is very much required to win with the kind of style they are playing currently. And certainly they're pretty happy with these right now. But I still think you can legitimately wonder if they wouldn't have been able to win and be better suited for the playoffs by going in a different direction.

dirno2000 · 01-11-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

yea little stevie sucks. That's why at the middle of the fourth, the suns have 13 total assists, which is what, 1 more than stevie averages.

Oh...and they are getting whupped by 25+.

They have 13 assists because Marcus Banks is their back up point guard. As fars as losing big, they were missing Marion and Hill in addition to Nash and playing on the second night of a back to back when they had to overcome a 16 point deficit on the first night.

And to be clear, nobody is saying that Nash sucks. He's clearly been the best PG in the league over the past three years. I'm just saying that he benefits from his teammates as much as they benefit from him. Again, he didn't suddenly become a better passer when he went to PHX but his assist totals shot through the roof.

Jack.Kerr · 01-11-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

And to be clear, nobody is saying that Nash sucks. He's clearly been the best PG in the league over the past three years. I'm just saying that he benefits from his teammates as much as they benefit from him. Again, he didn't suddenly become a better passer when he went to PHX but his assist totals shot through the roof.

Fair point.

And maybe also they all benefit from playing in a 'system' that maximizes their abilities to score while not asking them to put out the nightly effort defensively.

DirkFTW · 01-11-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Fair point.

And maybe also they all benefit from playing in a 'system' that maximizes their abilities to score while not asking them to put out the nightly effort defensively.

It's Nash. I refuse to praise Phoenix's tri-nomen coach.

DirkFTW · 01-11-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

BLACK JESUS!!!!!

<Bazillion Amares>

AMEN

I was quickly scrolling through this thread, and this post scared the crap out of me.

Rep owed. =)

Jack.Kerr · 01-11-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

It's Nash. I refuse to praise Phoenix's tri-nomen coach.

That wasn't praise. Least of all for Dan & Tony.

MavsX · 01-11-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

I was quickly scrolling through this thread, and this post scared the crap out of me.

Rep owed. =)

thanks dude.

yeah this thread is not low bandwidth friendly. Sorry to those on dial up. That being said, if you are still on dial up...you've got bigger problems....

FINtastic · 01-11-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

They have 13 assists because Marcus Banks is their back up point guard. As fars as losing big, they were missing Marion and Hill in addition to Nash and playing on the second night of a back to back when they had to overcome a 16 point deficit on the first night.

And to be clear, nobody is saying that Nash sucks. He's clearly been the best PG in the league over the past three years. I'm just saying that he benefits from his teammates as much as they benefit from him. Again, he didn't suddenly become a better passer when he went to PHX but his assist totals shot through the roof.

And not many people mention this, but the Suns record hasn't been great either when Marion was out the last couple of years. Of course, it's a small sample size of games when Marion is out, but they are roughly a .500 ball club when he is out.

fluid.forty.one · 01-11-2008, 02:54 PM

Could you imagine Dirk being a no show to practice? I love this team.

jthig32 · 01-11-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

And not many people mention this, but the Suns record hasn't been great either when Marion was out the last couple of years. Of course, it's a small sample size of games when Marion is out, but they are roughly a .500 ball club when he is out.

Dirno's stated several times on this board that Marion every bit as necessary to their overall system as Nash is, because very few 3's could play the 4 position like he does most of the time and still help out so much on the boards, alont with other areas.

It's a very valid point.