Artest is one of the two best players in the NBA... according to himself. - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

orangedays · 05-02-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

He loves to play defense. He plays defense. He plays defense better than anyone else in the league. Or, at least on the wing.

That's exactly it. In a league dominated by the PF position - Artest is a SF, a big one, but a SF nonetheless. He is a perimeter defender who doesn't have the size to shut down Dirk or Duncan or Garnett or Brand or Gasol or O'Neal or Bosh or...well, you get my point. Compound that with the fact that he isn't fast enough to guard Parker or Nash or Paul. And do you really think Artest is going to keep the elite swingmen of the league like Bryant, McGrady, Pierce, Wade from scoring 25+ night-in, night-out? You're kidding yourself. So what you've really got by drafting Artest second...Second (goodness)...is, well, not a whole lot. And I don't think I need to tell you that an elite defensive squad doesn't start from the perimeter - it starts from the post.

Quote:

I think that in this league, a GM can always get a guy that can score 20 per night, and wants to score 20 per night. A bit harder to get, but certainly still feasible, is one who can get 25/night. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Guys who can and will defend like Artest are few and far between. Does his great defense inspire others to play defense when they would not otherwise? I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so.

Plus, he can score too. He's not a great scorer, but he's a pretty good scorer.

Scorers, indeed, are a dime-a-dozen. Efficient scorers, however, are few and far between. Legitimate #1 options? Even more vintage. Artest is neither of those things - in terms of scorers, he is just the sort of offensive threat you describe: dime-a-dozen. He's not bad by any means, but his offensive capabilities are grossly overrated and he is by no stretch of the imagination a #1 option. If Ron Artest is leading your team in points - a swingman with no outside shot and and who hits the ones he does take at a rim-rattling 40% clip - then you sir, are in deep trouble.

Quote:

I don't think this makes him the second best player in the league, but if I get to pick second, I pick him. Then I probably get someone like Brand or Pierce, who'd most assuredly be around, in the second round.

If we were both GMs, and you had the 2nd pick, I'd want you to pick Artest too. I would then offer to trade you Kwame Brown for your next pick.

Jeremiah · 05-02-2006, 01:20 PM

...

orangedays · 05-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremiah

He loves to play defense. He plays defense. He plays defense better than anyone else in the league. Or, at least on the wing.

That's exactly it. In a league dominated by the PF position - Artest is a SF, a big one, but a SF nonetheless. He is a perimeter defender who doesn't have the size to shut down Dirk or Duncan or Garnett or Brand or Gasol or O'Neal or Bosh or...well, you get my point. Compound that with the fact that he isn't fast enough to guard Parker or Nash or Paul. And do you really think Artest is going to keep the elite swingmen of the league like Bryant, McGrady, Pierce, Wade from scoring 25+ night-in, night-out? You're kidding yourself. So what you've really got by drafting Artest second...Second (goodness)...is, well, not a whole lot. And I don't think I need to tell you that an elite defensive squad doesn't start from the perimeter - it starts from the post.

Quote:

I think that in this league, a GM can always get a guy that can score 20 per night, and wants to score 20 per night. A bit harder to get, but certainly still feasible, is one who can get 25/night. Scorers are a dime a dozen. Guys who can and will defend like Artest are few and far between. Does his great defense inspire others to play defense when they would not otherwise? I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so.

Plus, he can score too. He's not a great scorer, but he's a pretty good scorer.

Scorers, indeed, are a dime-a-dozen. Efficient scorers, however, are few and far between. Legitimate #1 options? Even more vintage. Artest is neither of those things - in terms of scorers, he is just the sort of offensive threat you describe: dime-a-dozen. He's not bad by any means, but his offensive capabilities are grossly overrated and he is by no stretch of the imagination a #1 option. If Ron Artest is leading your team in points - a swingman with no outside shot and who hits the ones he does take at a rim-rattling 40% clip - then you sir, are in deep trouble.

Quote:

I don't think this makes him the second best player in the league, but if I get to pick second, I pick him. Then I probably get someone like Brand or Pierce, who'd most assuredly be around, in the second round.

If we were both GMs, and you had the 2nd pick, I'd want you to pick Artest too. I would then offer to trade you Kwame Brown for your next pick.

EDIT:

Not entirely relevant but I thought it was interesting: the SF position is Sacramento's worst in terms of PER. It also shoots the worst eFG% (.453).

sixeightmkw · 04-04-2006, 02:49 PM

I am not saying Ben nor the people did stupid stuff. they did, and the people faced cahrges for what they did. But Ron flagrantly fouled Ben, he took his head off. We see people all the time retaliate, uh Jerry a few weeks ago with Horry, Shaq a few years back going after Brad Miller. That is not a new thing. Yes Ron tried to get away from Ben, of course, he was about to get his ass kicked. Did the fan have the right to throw stuff at him? no, by no means. But, Ron, being the cool guy that he was being at the time, should not have run into the stands and attack a person.
Just like Dale Davis, or whoever it was went into the stands this year, he had NO right. And rightfully so, he was punished.

Arne · 04-04-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

I am not saying Ben nor the people did stupid stuff. they did, and the people faced cahrges for what they did. But Ron flagrantly fouled Ben, he took his head off. We see people all the time retaliate, uh Jerry a few weeks ago with Horry, Shaq a few years back going after Brad Miller. That is not a new thing. Yes Ron tried to get away from Ben, of course, he was about to get his ass kicked. Did the fan have the right to throw stuff at him? no, by no means. But, Ron, being the cool guy that he was being at the time, should not have run into the stands and attack a person.
Just like Dale Davis, or whoever it was went into the stands this year, he had NO right. And rightfully so, he was punished.

Artest did boxing for a couple of years, so I'm not so sure if he would've been about to get his ass kicked, if he had really wanted to fight.

jthig32 · 04-04-2006, 02:53 PM

Yeah, well Antonio Davis got 5 games........

Granted he did it in a much calmer manner, but it's not like going into the stands is an automatic 80 game suspension.

sixeightmkw · 04-04-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, well Antonio Davis got 5 games........

Granted he did it in a much calmer manner, but it's not like going into the stands is an automatic 80 game suspension.

Yes, and Antonio Davis didn;t physically assault the guy either.

sixeightmkw · 04-04-2006, 03:01 PM

when you rush into a crowd of 50,000 not knowing who did what to you but you are on a mission to kick someones ass in that crowd, I would call that crazy.

sike · 04-05-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

when you rush into a crowd of 50,000 not knowing who did what to you but you are on a mission to kick someones ass in that crowd, I would call that crazy.

50,000...wow....that is one big arena.

sixeightmkw · 04-04-2006, 03:09 PM

OK, mabey a lifetime ban is a bit much. But before I would let someone that did that back in the league, he would have to do a whole lot to get back in. A years suspension would be first, then some type of psych evaluation, cause what ever you say, there was something not clicking right when he did what he did, then some community service. Mabey donating alot of money to some type of charity. He came back after his suspension and kept saying crazy things and evetually pretty much got kicked off his team.

mcsluggo · 04-04-2006, 03:25 PM

I would put my $$$ on Artest in a steel cage match between the two lunatics (Bwallace and Artest)

EricaLubarsky · 04-05-2006, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

I would put my $$$ on Artest in a steel cage match between the two lunatics (Bwallace and Artest)

I'd put my money on a 7-foot black-belt who has survived REAL violence.

Five-ofan · 04-05-2006, 08:58 AM

Trust me a guy that can box can beat "someone from the street" Being tough is nice and if you have equal or close to equal fighting skills it will determine the winner but knowing how to fight is the biggest determing factor in who wins a fight.

mcsluggo · 04-05-2006, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'd put my money on a 7-foot black-belt who has survived REAL violence.

Who is the seven foot black belt?

From ESPN:

Ben Wallace: 6'9" tall 240 lbs.
Ron Artest: 6'7" tall 260 Lbs

sike · 04-05-2006, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Who is the seven foot black belt?

From ESPN:

Ben Wallace: 6'9" tall 240 lbs.
Ron Artest: 6'7" tall 260 Lbs

uh....I wonder.......

sixeightmkw · 04-04-2006, 03:29 PM

there is a difference in boxing, and fighting. There both from the street so it would be interesting.

jthig32 · 04-04-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

there is a difference in boxing, and fighting. There both from the street so it would be interesting.

Um, Artest has a pretty rough backround, if I recall correctly. I would imagine he's been in his fair share of street fights.

MavsX · 04-04-2006, 11:06 PM

i just put in an application at circuit city too..to get that discount

chumdawg · 04-04-2006, 11:09 PM

I'm just sayin'...if I had to start something with an NBA guy--I mean absolutely HAD to--I'd get it on with that puss Ben Wallace a lot more often than I would with Artest. Artest would hurt me. In ways I didn't know I could be hurt.

sixeightmkw · 04-05-2006, 11:18 AM

Mbenga is a black belt.

orangedays · 04-05-2006, 02:17 PM

It's interesting, though RonRon's arrival has been the catalyst behind the King's recent revivalist movement - he has been playing some of the most offensively-inefficient ball of his career as a King: .388 FG% (career-low; first time sub-.400 in career) and .305 3P% (career-low).

This surprises me considering how many open-looks and lay-ups he must be getting in the Sacramento system.

The Kings are only +3.1 pts/100 offensively with Artest on the court but a stunning -6.5 pts/100 defensively. The rest of their offensive numbers look pretty much the same though they do improve rebounding (a big weakness) by 2.3% with Artest on-court.

While characterizing Artest's offense as 'crap' may be a stretch - Artest's biggest influence on the game as a King has certainly been on the defensive end.

jthig32 · 04-05-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

It's interesting, though RonRon's arrival has been the catalyst behind the King's recent revivalist movement - he has been playing some of the most offensively-inefficient ball of his career as a King: .388 FG% (career-low; first time sub-.400 in career) and .305 3P% (career-low).

This surprises me considering how many open-looks and lay-ups he must be getting in the Sacramento system.

The Kings are only +3.1 pts/100 offensively with Artest on the court but a stunning -6.5 pts/100 defensively. The rest of their offensive numbers look pretty much the same though they do improve rebounding (a big weakness) by 2.3% with Artest on-court.

While characterizing Artest's offense as 'crap' may be a stretch - Artest's biggest influence on the game as a King has certainly been on the defensive end.

Yeah I agree. Certainly his biggest impact is defensively. But I also don't expect him to continue this way offensively with the Kings. He'll turn it around. The last few years in Indiana he was an above average offensive player pretty much across the board.

Calling his offense crap is ridiculous.

MavsX · 04-05-2006, 10:28 PM

i think im one of the best looking idiot in the world.....according to me

orangedays · 04-05-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsX

i think im one of the best looking idiot in the world.....according to me

Me too

bernardos70 · 04-05-2006, 11:27 PM

Did you watch the game tonite when he was guarding Ginobili. He nullified him. I actually felt sorry for Ginobili, then I realized he's Argentine, and it made me smile when he got punked over and over by Artest.

Just211 · 04-06-2006, 08:21 AM

sometimes I am ridiculous

but hey I don't like his game, I like hi D, but I'm not impressed with his offense. Although he does look a little better in Sac than Ind

sike · 04-06-2006, 08:51 AM

"Calling his offense crap is ridiculous."
what if I call you "crap" is that so ridiculous?

Artest is an idiot....but I like him Sac Town

rabbitproof · 04-06-2006, 02:07 PM

I'm about to become a huge Ron-Ron fan in a couple weeks.

Arne · 05-01-2006, 09:58 AM

Chris Paul considers him the MVP of the second half of the season.

Five-ofan · 05-01-2006, 10:02 AM

Ron artest never needs to be mentioned in the same sentence as mvp without the word not in between them.

EricaLubarsky · 05-01-2006, 11:42 AM

Its the Bonzi/Bibby show out there. Artest is a decent defender and all but Artest looks like a Bonzi clone more than the other way around.

Arne · 05-01-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Its the Bonzi/Bibby show out there. Artest is a decent defender and all but Artest looks like a Bonzi clone more than the other way around.

Why did they suck then at the beginning of the season? Yeah, because Artest was not there.

In game two (when Artest was out) Ginobilli had 32/9 on 50% shooting.

In all the other games (when Artest defended him) Ginobilli had 7 PPG (!!!) on 39% shooting.

Don't underestimate Artest. He's the best defender in the league. Period.

sixeightmkw · 05-01-2006, 12:04 PM

hmmm

jthig32 · 05-01-2006, 12:16 PM

"decent defender"

Understatement of this hour, at least.

sike · 05-01-2006, 12:18 PM

shutting down the vastly overrated Manu has been a beautiful sight...

Five-ofan · 05-01-2006, 12:19 PM

et herego proc (i think)

Five-ofan · 05-02-2006, 10:20 AM

So assuming lebron would go first you would take ron effing artest over Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Wade etc? You have lost your damn mind.

Jeremiah · 05-02-2006, 10:42 AM

...

jthig32 · 05-02-2006, 10:52 AM

Yeah, that's pretty nuts. He'd be top 20 on my board, but second? Um no.

Five-ofan · 05-02-2006, 11:03 AM

The funny thing is you mention two players that are BETTER than artest as guys that would be there in the second round but fail to mention that artest would be there if you didnt take him.