Now what? - Page 33 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mac222b · 09-08-2022, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Yeah 11 ain?t bad. It sounds like a lot but it?s the MLE. A few years ago thr MLE was 5.8 and 7 and no one would complain about that. It?s the same cap %

Sure he?s been mediocre from time to time but he?s also dominated defensively and his shooting single handedly turned the Utah series. He made Gobert his bitch by extending the spacing out to the three and dragging Gobert out to where he was uncomfortable which allowed us to win both the defense and rebounding battle.

People talk about Brunson, but without Kleber we lose in the first round and the MLE is never a bad pay for a guy who can change the outcome of a series

Yeah I?m fine with Maxi?s occasional ups and downs. It?s so hard to replace his skill set. I hope that we can limit his minutes somewhat this regular season with Wood and McGee on board and Green improving.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-08-2022, 05:29 PM

Let's also be real about Brunson's value. The knicks were the only team in the league that would bend heaven and earth for fricken' Brunson. Even if we had extended him, I don't believe teams were lining up to get him. He would have eventually requested a trade to the Knicks because that's where he wants to be. Yes, we are in a better position to get assets back there, but Brunson to the Knicks was going to happen one way or another. I don't see how anyone could think or see that differently based on what happened.

mac222b · 09-09-2022, 09:13 AM

Just re-checked and Brunson?s Knicks deal starts at 27.6. So we were offering a full 6m less per year starting salary. Even worse than I had remembered.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-09-2022, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

Just re-checked and Brunson?s Knicks deal starts at 27.6. So we were offering a full 6m less per year starting salary. Even worse than I had remembered.

That's still a large chunk of change for Brunson. I'm on record for saying 30 mil year, and I woulda paid it.

But plenty of fans cut their offer off at 22.5, and that isn't unreasonable. 30 mil contracts are hard to move if they aren't a top tier player, and even then, often difficult to match salary. I look at similarly tiered Brogdon in that regard. He is making 22.5 and still only got you a bunch of guys you've never heard of and a meh first rounder (top 12 protected in 2023 and turns into a second rounder if not conveyed).

mac222b · 09-09-2022, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

That's still a large chunk of change for Brunson. I'm on record for saying 30 mil year, and I woulda paid it.

But plenty of fans cut their offer off at 22.5, and that isn't unreasonable. 30 mil contracts are hard to move if they aren't a top tier player, and even then, often difficult to match salary. I look at similarly tiered Brogdon in that regard. He is making 22.5 and still only got you a bunch of guys you've never heard of and a meh first rounder (top 12 protected in 2023 and turns into a second rounder if not conveyed).

I would?ve definitely gone over the Knicks offer. Not sure I?d go all the way to 30m. The Knicks deal is descending so I guess we probably could?ve done the same, so it starts at let?s say 29.5 and becomes better as it goes on. If I?m Cuban, I do ANYTHiNG to make sure Luka doesn?t leave. If we kept Brunson with Wood and McGee added we are serious contenders if everything breaks right and we have all picks to trade again soon. Now we need to find a guy who replaces what JB brought instead of basically being a two way larger wing away from complete. Brunson AND Siakam or someone like him, though I maybe prefer a better shooter than Pascal we probably won?t be in a position to be choosy.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-09-2022, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I would?ve definitely gone over the Knicks offer. Not sure I?d go all the way to 30m. The Knicks deal is descending so I guess we probably could?ve done the same, so it starts at let?s say 29.5 and becomes better as it goes on. If I?m Cuban, I do ANYTHiNG to make sure Luka doesn?t leave. If we kept Brunson with Wood and McGee added we are serious contenders if everything breaks right and we have all picks to trade again soon. Now we need to find a guy who replaces what JB brought instead of basically being a two way larger wing away from complete. Brunson AND Siakam or someone like him, though I maybe prefer a better shooter than Pascal we probably won?t be in a position to be choosy.

Is Brunson the anything to keep Luka from leaving move? I'm not sure. The Knicks treated Brunson like he was Luka, and that's hard to match. And Brunson's defense absolutely killed us vs GS. In fact, I remember that just like I remember his greatness vs the Jazz. So you're committing to your three best players, Luka, Spencer, and Brunson as guys who don't play defense. And it did eventually kill us in the playoffs.

Schroder makes sense because his role wouldn't be as big as Brunson's. I like him a lot off the bench if we can sign him.

mac222b · 09-10-2022, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Is Brunson the anything to keep Luka from leaving move? I'm not sure. The Knicks treated Brunson like he was Luka, and that's hard to match. And Brunson's defense absolutely killed us vs GS. In fact, I remember that just like I remember his greatness vs the Jazz. So you're committing to your three best players, Luka, Spencer, and Brunson as guys who don't play defense. And it did eventually kill us in the playoffs.

Schroder makes sense because his role wouldn't be as big as Brunson's. I like him a lot off the bench if we can sign him.

I wasnt seeing Brunson as the coup de grace or anything like that. I think we can still recover, mainly due to Luka. I think we would?ve been better served using our assets to try to find our second best player, preferably a big wing, along with keeping Brunson. So to me we lost our second best player, though you could call DFS that last season with little argument from me, for nothing and created a new hole to fill. We almost NEED our new #2 to be a better creator/ball handler/initiator than someone like Wiggins or OG Anonoby now that Brunson is gone. Instead of applying finishing touches to a contender we created a new problem. Im not saying resigning Brunson makes Luka staying a slam dunk. I think the Mavs losing their second or third best player for nothing, a player who was homegrown, not to mention the way it went down where we are once again left looking clueless or ill prepared, is a bad look. Too many of these situations contribute to a league wide perception of the Mavs franchise (i.e Cuban) as something or someone to be taken slightly less then seriously. And Cuban had no problem overpaying the Harrison Barnes of the world when he was desperate. All that said, maybe Brunson really wanted to be in NY and we really didn?t value him higher than 21.5. Im sure Portland doesnt value Nurkic as a 16 million dollar player. They kept him to make their star happy and to not lose an asset for nothing, while creating another hole on the roster.

BigDog63 · 09-14-2022, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I would?ve definitely gone over the Knicks offer. Not sure I?d go all the way to 30m. The Knicks deal is descending so I guess we probably could?ve done the same, so it starts at let?s say 29.5 and becomes better as it goes on. If I?m Cuban, I do ANYTHiNG to make sure Luka doesn?t leave. If we kept Brunson with Wood and McGee added we are serious contenders if everything breaks right and we have all picks to trade again soon. Now we need to find a guy who replaces what JB brought instead of basically being a two way larger wing away from complete. Brunson AND Siakam or someone like him, though I maybe prefer a better shooter than Pascal we probably won?t be in a position to be choosy.

Have that guy on our roster already: Dinwiddie. Everyone seems to forget he made a very similar playoff run for the Knicks two years ago. He might well just be a taller, better defending Brunson.

SMC0007 · 09-14-2022, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Have that guy on our roster already: Dinwiddie. Everyone seems to forget he made a very similar playoff run for the Knicks two years ago. He might well just be a taller, better defending Brunson.

Dinwiddie is close enough to JB, but the problem I see is they've talked about SD starting alongside Luka. I'm not sure who comes off the bench in that case, we really don't have a proven reliable back up floor general. They're going to have to get tricky with rotations

With Wood not starting, it makes it even more interesting. One of those starting guards will likely come off for rest when Wood comes in. So SD runs point with Wood or Luka stays on for a few more mins. I think it's a stupid idea to bring Wood off the bench period, then adding SD to the SLU makes things even more confusing.

Melonhead · 09-14-2022, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDog63

Have that guy on our roster already: Dinwiddie. Everyone seems to forget he made a very similar playoff run for the Knicks two years ago. He might well just be a taller, better defending Brunson.

no one forgot about him. he was great as a third ball handler. now that hes the second best ball handler on the team, whos going to fill his spot from last year off the bench?

lets not forget his limitations either. hes does not have the consistency of brunson, but hes a very solid ball handler/creator to have.

saclare · 09-09-2022, 04:31 PM

What if Luka and Brunson didn't get along all that well off the court? Or simply Brunson wanted his shot to run an offense as the main initiator? I don't buy into the Mavs wanting to be cheap. But I certainly can't sit here and assume stuff without also wondering those two things. There's so much that goes into a decision like this and in the end, best of luck to Brunson.

BigDog63 · 09-14-2022, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

What if Luka and Brunson didn't get along all that well off the court? Or simply Brunson wanted his shot to run an offense as the main initiator? I don't buy into the Mavs wanting to be cheap. But I certainly can't sit here and assume stuff without also wondering those two things. There's so much that goes into a decision like this and in the end, best of luck to Brunson.

Agree. I think Brunson wanted a chance to run the show, and that was never going to happen here. People also forget his various deficiencies, mainly size. Had the Mavs kept him for maybe 4/80, I think that would have been fine. More than that, likely overpaying. I also think Dinwiddie will take up much of the production that Brunson had (and is taller and a better defender), AND we got Christian Wood too. It wasn't nearly as bad an offseason as all the pundits keep saying.

SMC0007 · 09-09-2022, 04:57 PM

Its the slooooow part of the off-season.

F Brunson. He's a knick now and he chose that.

EricaLubarsky · 09-10-2022, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Its the slooooow part of the off-season.

F Brunson. He's a knick now and he chose that.

Still not announced but training camp is likely in 2-3 weeks

We play our first preseason game in 25 days and we?ll get at least a few days of camp before that

EricaLubarsky · 09-13-2022, 09:14 PM

Dennis with 26-8 to take out Giannis

Sign him @mcuban

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-13-2022, 09:44 PM

You know when it's this obvious that the Mavs sign Eric Bledsoe instead.

saclare · 09-14-2022, 10:52 AM

I think Schroder is playing his way into a contract the Mavs can't offer/beat, unfortunately. He'd be perfect, but I don't think we can compete with teams that have space or can offer a larger amount and/or years.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-14-2022, 11:14 AM

I mean, no joke, any injury to Luka/Spencer = Jaden Hardy. That's not really fair to Hardy or the team because he isn't a pg. Next option is Frank, also not a pg.

Melonhead · 09-14-2022, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mean, no joke, any injury to Luka/Spencer = Jaden Hardy. That's not really fair to Hardy or the team because he isn't a pg. Next option is Frank, also not a pg.

And its not far fetched at all. Even with brunson/spence, luka was still a high percentage which, I guarantee he will be gassed by the end of this season. Schroeder is our best bet. Bledsoe can be had for the vet min imo, hes coming off an achilles injury, although its not a torn achilles.

Outside of those two, I think a trade has to happen at the deadline.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-14-2022, 12:35 PM

Hardy fills the Trey Burke role of coming in to give you quick points when you need them. That's perfect for him.

Frank fills in the 2/3 role of playing great defense on opposing guards/forwards. Perfect role for him.

But that 3rd ball handler is totally vacant. Schroder makes the most sense, but I'd be fine with someone like Bledsoe too.

saclare · 09-14-2022, 01:53 PM

What can we realistically offer Shroder? If he's not about money, he should like the opportunity and playing time with the Mavs to set up for a longer term contract before he turns 30.

EricaLubarsky · 09-14-2022, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saclare

What can we realistically offer Shroder? If he's not about money, he should like the opportunity and playing time with the Mavs to set up for a longer term contract before he turns 30.

1) Money? Nope. We can only offer min unless we can arrange a SnT and we dont have much in the terms of assets. Is he worth a FRP to get a team to get him here? Powell and a FRP to get him at 10/year? Do you do that?

2) Pt? Kinda? Luka is likely to play the same MPG. Dennis can take Jalen's 16mpg, but it's also expected that SD will up his minutes by 6-10MPG a game so that's like 10mpg for Dennis. If SD and Luka keep the same MPG, then we can only offer 16mpg.

Not sure if 10-16mpg will be good for someone who averaged 27mpg last year.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-14-2022, 03:59 PM

It's true, and considering how we handled the Dragic situation...welp...

But Schroder is also a lot more productive and younger than Dragic at this stage. Why WOULDN'T you play him is the real question? And Kidd helped get the best Schroder on the floor with his Lakers time.

BPo001 · 09-14-2022, 08:30 PM

Is DJ Augustin still available? He?s a ball handler who shoots a high percentage from 3. I assume his defense is pretty shitty though.

JustJay · 09-15-2022, 10:51 PM

Even if we get Schroder I just don't see any viable path to us winning a championship not just this upcoming season but period until we can totally reboot this roster. I know we made the Western Conference Finals but I honestly thought we looked like one of the worst Conference Finals teams I'd ever seen and didn't belong there. I'm not going to say we got lucky against the Suns we earned that and it was a great moment but I think it was similar to Golden State beating us in 2007 when we were the #1 seed a huge upset, problem is every year there's going to be teams like them the Warriors the Bucks the Nets the Clippers the Celtics the Sixers the Heat and you will have to knock off more than one of them to win it all probably at least two good Western Conference teams and one Eastern Conference team in the Finals and we're not really on their level it would be the biggest upset of all time and Luka would be in instant GOAT status instantly surpassing Dirk for us to even win one championship with this flawed roster. Sometimes teams make more and more progress so you might think Conference Finals was last year so Finals will be this year but you will just be disappointed. Just look at the Hawks another surprise team to make that made the Eastern Conference Finals a year ago and weren't contenders this past year and couldn't get out of the first round. Heck the Hawks got better this offseason with the acquisition of Dejounte Murray and although we added Wood we lost Brunson.

I'm sure this will just come across as negative but I just call it like I see it. It seems like every other superstar has found a way to pair up with another superstar but that's not going to happen here with Luka unless we somehow strike gold in the draft as free agency is always a disappointment and I know I've never heard of a Conference Finals team that has no real trade assets at all outside of our superstar. With Dirk we were able to build a team through trades to get several stars although past or towards the end of their prime to surround Dirk a solid roster from top to bottom with one superstar but we're really no where close to that happening here. I hope Luka doesn't leave us one day to team up with some other star but it wouldn't shock me.

I'm also a Cowboy fan but it's the same thing the fans think every year they're going to win the Super Bowl like the glory days but it's not really close to happening. I already knew better before the disaster against the Bucs. At least the Mavs can make it once to the Conference Finals unlike the Cowboys.

Not accusing anyone on this forum of saying we're going to win it all, but even MJ and Brady needed good teammates.

saclare · 09-16-2022, 09:40 AM

Yea, I have the feeling that the Mavs FO is betting on a big rebound from Dinwiddie and for Wood to take the next step. I honestly could see the latter as an All-Star, but that's a big if...

Given they have Luka locked up for a while, it's something they seem comfortable with, though not a gamble I would take with one of Luka's prime years. Weird to say prime when he's so young, but these supernova stars have a shine that lasts longer...

I still have a gut feeling they are going to ride into the season with what they have (only change would be to add a ballhandler) and be aggressive in the trade market.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-16-2022, 09:55 AM

I think the season could go either way, but I'm not really getting the negativity.

If we get the Wood from two seasons ago that averaged 21 ppg, then it's not only filling in for Brunson, it's exceeding it. How many bigs shoot 50% from the field whilst also shooting 39% from three? And if you can Schroder, then you are objectively better in almost every way than last year's team.

Funny because I really liked Brunson and loved his consistency, but he is officially being overrated now by too many fans.

Melonhead · 09-16-2022, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think the season could go either way, but I'm not really getting the negativity.

If we get the Wood from two seasons ago that averaged 21 ppg, then it's not only filling in for Brunson, it's exceeding it. How many bigs shoot 50% from the field whilst also shooting 39% from three? And if you can Schroder, then you are objectively better in almost every way than last year's team.

Funny because I really liked Brunson and loved his consistency, but he is officially being overrated now by too many fans.

Here's my less than optimistic view,,,another year of Luka's high usage will wear him down over the long run. (this year and career wise)

my biggest worry other than ballhandler is that it doesnt sound like Wood will be starting. Im hoping the staff realizes before the season starts. He's looking for one last big contract. I think he will ball out but theyve already told mcgee hes starting. It remains to be seen how that goes.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-16-2022, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Here's my less than optimistic view,,,another year of Luka's high usage will wear him down over the long run. (this year and career wise)

my biggest worry other than ballhandler is that it doesnt sound like Wood will be starting. Im hoping the staff realizes before the season starts. He's looking for one last big contract. I think he will ball out but theyve already told mcgee hes starting. It remains to be seen how that goes.

Wood not starting would be astoundingly stupid and won't work after 20 games anyway.

And Schroder is the literal key to keeping Luka fresh later in the season. Some don't think he would make a big impact, but he surely would if Luka or Spencer went down just like what Brunson did in the first round.

Melonhead · 09-16-2022, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Wood not starting would be astoundingly stupid and won't work after 20 games anyway.

And Schroder is the literal key to keeping Luka fresh later in the season. Some don't think he would make a big impact, but he surely would if Luka or Spencer went down just like what Brunson did in the first round.

Yeah I was going with the now, if they picked up Dennis I would be more than satisfied regarding his usage and rest, and think they?re almost the same as previous year, maybe better.

Alas, Mavs won?t be getting Dennis. Ugh

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-16-2022, 05:03 PM

Yep, called it. I said if Schroder doesn't sign with the Lakers and that's exactly what he did. Fail.

Melonhead · 09-16-2022, 05:45 PM

1 year 2.6 mill?

Even on vet min, lakers will always win out on FA over other cities.

EricaLubarsky · 09-16-2022, 06:42 PM

Fuck

SMC0007 · 09-16-2022, 08:06 PM

Wood is possibly going to be held back by a wild ass decision to not start him. The projected rotation and SLU is the the dumbest thing imaginable for this team IMO. They are severely over thinking this. The only worse decision regarding the roster would be starting all the bench players.

DevinHarriswillstart · 09-16-2022, 08:12 PM

So Schroder picked the Lakers over the Raptors and Suns. We weren't even in the convo.

Yikes.

BPo001 · 09-16-2022, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So Schroder picked the Lakers over the Raptors and Suns. We weren't even in the convo.

Yikes.

Even after our FO watched him play in Eurobasket.

JustJay · 09-17-2022, 12:21 AM

Luka was just picked the best player in the entire NBA under 25.

I'm pretty sure Patrick Maholmes won that honor in NFL and everybody wants to play with him, but no one seems to care less about playing with Luka. I think it's some kind of stigma with the Dallas Mavericks we won a championship no one but fans and Lebron haters cared, there's also that Luka is usually highest usage in the league stars don't want to watch someone else take over the game. We're pretty much screwed unless you're happy with 2nd round exists at best. Don't expect us back in the Conference Finals with this roster.

rimrocker · 09-17-2022, 02:48 AM

I?m still not so sure Dorsey can?t elevate to the next level. He has the maturity and credentials to make an impact this season.

I still think their plan is to go with what we have and see if Hardy, Dorsey, Green, and/or Frank can break the rotation and become somewhat of a factor.
Then dangle a combination of them in a package with Powell and/or THJ around the TDL to address a dire need.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-17-2022, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Luka was just picked the best player in the entire NBA under 25.

I'm pretty sure Patrick Maholmes won that honor in NFL and everybody wants to play with him, but no one seems to care less about playing with Luka. I think it's some kind of stigma with the Dallas Mavericks we won a championship no one but fans and Lebron haters cared, there's also that Luka is usually highest usage in the league stars don't want to watch someone else take over the game. We're pretty much screwed unless you're happy with 2nd round exists at best. Don't expect us back in the Conference Finals with this roster.

That's an extremely pessimistic take. Frankly I think our roster is better than the one last year- although the rest of the West got better too, so I don't necessarily expect us to make the conference finals again either.

Personally I don't think our lack of free agent success has anything to with Luka's usage rate or a "stigma" about the Mavs. I think it's the simple fact that there are only three actual free agent destination cities in the NBA- New York, LA, and Miami. That's it. You don't see free agents lining up to go to Philly or Chicago or Houston either. Look at Cleveland. They had Lebron for 11 years and they could never attract anyone either.

And you can't compare the NFL to the NBA. You just can't. Of course everyone wants to play with a great QB. That doesn't translate in basketball. This isn't a Luka thing. It's a basketball thing. Every fan wants to think that other players are just dying to play with their superstar, but that's just not true. "Get to play with such and such" is hardly ever the motivating factor that fans seem to think it is.

JustJay · 09-17-2022, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

That's an extremely pessimistic take. Frankly I think our roster is better than the one last year- although the rest of the West got better too, so I don't necessarily expect us to make the conference finals again either.

Personally I don't think our lack of free agent success has anything to with Luka's usage rate or a "stigma" about the Mavs. I think it's the simple fact that there are only three actual free agent destination cities in the NBA- New York, LA, and Miami. That's it. You don't see free agents lining up to go to Philly or Chicago or Houston either. Look at Cleveland. They had Lebron for 11 years and they could never attract anyone either.

And you can't compare the NFL to the NBA. You just can't. Of course everyone wants to play with a great QB. That doesn't translate in basketball. This isn't a Luka thing. It's a basketball thing. Every fan wants to think that other players are just dying to play with their superstar, but that's just not true. "Get to play with such and such" is hardly ever the motivating factor that fans seem to think it is.

Are we championship contenders yes or no? If the answer is no, you agree with me or you're just pessimistic too.