Democrats in their own words

[dude1394]

This 10 year argument may be the dumbest argument I've ever heard. So 8 years ago it was 10 as well.

Dude either be against it because you are against it or conversely for it. But don't pull out this 10 year bullcrap. That would be a reason to FASTTRACK it you stupid moron.

[dude1394]

And McCain is just as idiotic on it. And why so many conservatives don't trust the dude as far as they can throw him.

Then the WeeklyStandard's Michael Goldfarb tossed out a question. Here's the exchange as recorded by National Review's Jim Geraghty:

Mike Goldfarb: Some people are perplexed by your rhetoric on global warming. Is this one of those ‘no surrender’ issues, or is there room for discussion?

McCain: There’s always room for discussion. But I don’t know how any conservative can not support cap and trade. We did it with acid rain. The Europeans are putting it into effect. It’s a capitalist process that encourages green technologies. If we’re wrong, all we’ve done is adopt green technologies, in an effort to give our kids a greener planet.

As far as ANWR is concerned, I don’t want to drill in the Grand Canyon, and I don’t want to drill in the Everglades. This is one of the most pristine and beautiful parts of the world.

There in a sentence is another example of the dynamic that drives conservatives away from John McCain. Not only do the vast majority of Republicans support exploration in ANWR, they also deeply resent the idea that such a position is on a par with a proposal to strip mine Yellowstone. But here is John McCain comparing exploration in ANWR to drilling in the Everglades or the Grand Ganyon. It isn't just that McCain's position is opposite that of the Republican party. It is also that he uses the harshest rhetoric of the left to convey that disagreement.

[jefelump]

Bill Clinton used that same 10 year excuse in 1995, when he vetoed a bill that would have allowed oil exploration in ANWR. We're now in 2008.... 13 years later.

http://rubechat.kfan.com/forums/post/2984546.aspx

And in response to McCain, I don't see how any conservative CAN support cap and trade...

[wmbwinn]

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old Texas rancher, whose
hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a
conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to McCain
and his bid to be our President.

The old rancher said, 'Well, ya know, McCain is a 'post turtle'.'

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'post
turtle' was.

The old rancher said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you
come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post
turtle'. The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he
continued to explain. 'You know he didn't get up there by himself, he
doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up
there, and you just wonder what kind of a dumb ass put him up there."

Again, for the record, I don't like either choice for prez...

[wmbwinn]

Snow White & The Seven Dwarfs



The seven dwarfs left to go work in the mine
early each morning. As always, Snow White stayed
home doing her domestic chores.



As lunch time approached, she would prepare
their lunch and carry it to the mine.



One day as she arrived at the mine with the lunch,
she saw that there had been a terrible cave-in.
Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White began
calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs
had somehow survived.



"Hello!...Hello!" she shouted. "Can anyone hear me? Hello!"



For a long while, there was no answer.
Losing hope, Snow White again shouted,
"Hello! Is anyone down there?"



Just as she was about to give up all hope,
she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, singing...

"Vote for Barack Obama! - Vote for Barack Obama!"

Snow White fell to her knees, crossed herself and prayed,
"Oh, thank you, God! At least Dopey is still alive..."

[wmbwinn]

I bought a bird feeder. I hung
it on my back porch and filled
it with seed. What a beauty of
a bird feeder it is, as I filled it
lovingly with seed. Within a
week we had hundreds of birds
taking advantage of the
continuous flow of free and
easily accessible food.

But then the birds started
building nests in the boards
of the patio, above the table,
and next to the barbecue.

Then came the poop. It was
everywhere: on the patio tile,
the chairs, the table ...
everywhere!

Then some of the birds
turned mean. They would
dive bomb me and try to
peck me even though I had
fed them out of my own
pocket.

And others birds were
boisterous and loud. They
sat on the feeder and
squawked and screamed at
all hours of the day and night
and demanded that I fill it
when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn't even
sit on my own back porch
anymore. So I took down the
bird feeder and in three days
the birds were gone. I cleaned
up their mess and took down
the many nests they had built
all over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like
it used to be.... quiet, serene
and no one demanding their
rights to a free meal.

[dude1394]

Yea...there is no difference in the two parties at all. Don't fool yourself, there is plenty.
One of the worst this year is the free-trade demagoguery that the democrats will (and are engaging in).

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../06/020705.php

Canada, Colombia Conclude Free Trade Agreement

The Democrats have blocked consideration of the free trade agreement between the U.S. and Colombia, a key ally in Latin America. This is perverse, since nearly all of Colombia's goods already enter the U.S. tariff-free, while the agreement would open Colombia's market to American companies. Perverse, but consistent with Barack Obama's policy of coddling our enemies while shafting our friends.

Now, Canada has announced that it has completed a trade agreement with Colombia. The agreement will be a boon to Canada's economy:

Trade between Canada and Colombia already amounts to over $1.1 billion per year; the new agreement makes it likely that Canadian companies, rather than American, will benefit from increasing trade in the region. With the Democrats' policies on taxes, trade and energy, it is not easy to see how they could damage our economy more if that were their purpose.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I bought a bird feeder. I hung
it on my back porch and filled
it with seed. What a beauty of
a bird feeder it is, as I filled it
lovingly with seed. Within a
week we had hundreds of birds
taking advantage of the
continuous flow of free and
easily accessible food.

But then the birds started
building nests in the boards
of the patio, above the table,
and next to the barbecue.

Then came the poop. It was
everywhere: on the patio tile,
the chairs, the table ...
everywhere!

Then some of the birds
turned mean. They would
dive bomb me and try to
peck me even though I had
fed them out of my own
pocket.

And others birds were
boisterous and loud. They
sat on the feeder and
squawked and screamed at
all hours of the day and night
and demanded that I fill it
when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn't even
sit on my own back porch
anymore. So I took down the
bird feeder and in three days
the birds were gone. I cleaned
up their mess and took down
the many nests they had built
all over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like
it used to be.... quiet, serene
and no one demanding their
rights to a free meal.

Right along these lines, I found this article today...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080608/...s/iraq_katrina

This article is about a War Bill, but people are crying about it helping Iraqi war refugees, and not Katrina victims. The last time I checked, we were not at war in Louisiana, or against Hurricane Katrina, so what business does Sen. Mary Landrieu have in attaching over $30 billion in "domestic priorities"? If she wants a bill that helps "Katrina Refugees" in her state, then introduce the bill. It should not be tied into a war spending bill.

[dude1394]

Don't do drugs and don't vote democrat. Wasn't one of the things the dems were going to do when they took over congress was to reduce oil prices??

Voting for a democrat means voting for higher gas prices. Heh...

How can you argue with this data?

[ShaggyDirk]

haha..funny picture. that is about all it is good for.

[dude1394]

Democrats continue to be stuck on stupid.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../06/020725.php

This morning, a cloture vote on the Democrats' scheme to impose a "windfall profits tax" on America's oil companies failed on a 50-44 vote. The bill would have imposed a 25% surtax on any "unreasonable" profits being earned by the oil companies, among other provisions. The roll call is here. Several of the usual suspects--Corker, Smith and Snowe--voted with the Democrats. Every Democrat who was present voted in favor of the measure, but four Democrats, including Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, didn't show up; John McCain was absent as well.

What we need, of course, is oil companies with bigger profits, not smaller. Then we need them to invest those profits in drilling for more oil in places like ANWR and the coastal shelf, as well as developing shale oil reserves. The problem with America's oil companies is not that they're big, the problem is that they are tiny, as this chart shows; click to enlarge:

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Yeah. That is just what we need. Oil companies with bigger profits.

[Ninkobei]

how is anyone supposed to trust the Oil Companies to come up with an alternative fuel? isnt that a conflict of interest? why would exxon mobile put itself out of business like that.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

how is anyone supposed to trust the Oil Companies to come up with an alternative fuel? isnt that a conflict of interest? why would exxon mobile put itself out of business like that.

Uh....to make money? There hasn't been a reason to come up with alternative fuel, oil has been too cheap. Why didn't you quit using gas and get a solar powered car? Well because it doesn't work so good and costs too much.

[dude1394]

Maybe WE should drill here.

The Pelosi Premium. Heh..

Although, US law will not allow American companies from drilling for oil off the coast of Florida, the US laws will not stop the Chinese from setting up 36 new oil wells there for Cuba.

[ShaggyDirk]

haha

[wmbwinn]

Democrat perspective: If we take the profits away from the oil industry in taxation, we can use that money to support the development of alternative fuel.

Republican perspective: No one is more likely to develop alternative fuel than the oil industry and its related branches. Let them keep the money and develop the technology and business structure themselves.

I think that if we can agree that the above is basically the crux of the arguement, then we can move from there into a debate about which side is correct...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Democrat perspective: If we take the profits away from the oil industry in taxation, we can use that money to support the development of alternative fuel.

Republican perspective: No one is more likely to develop alternative fuel than the oil industry and its related branches. Let them keep the money and develop the technology and business structure themselves.

I think that if we can agree that the above is basically the crux of the arguement, then we can move from there into a debate about which side is correct...

If they want to develop alternative fuel then provide tax cuts and basic research or underwrite liability. Just like ethanol, the guvment CANNOT make intelligent decisions on the market, they never have and never will. They WILL however make lobbyists richer.

[wmbwinn]

I agree with the general direction Dude is arguing towards. I just hoped to draw the discussion down to the most basic philosophical difference in the Republican theory and the Democrat theory.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I agree with the general direction Dude is arguing towards. I just hoped to draw the discussion down to the most basic philosophical difference in the Republican theory and the Democrat theory.

Republican = Evil

Democrat = Idiot

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Republican = Evil

Democrat = Idiot

Ah...
now we might be getting somewhere. I suspect you have an idea, then, that is both Holy and Smart???

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

how is anyone supposed to trust the Oil Companies to come up with an alternative fuel? isnt that a conflict of interest? why would exxon mobile put itself out of business like that.

Are you saying we should trust Government to come up with an alternative fuel? Look at the big Ethanol push, and the subsequent food crisis. Fuel and energy in general is not the expertise of government.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If they want to develop alternative fuel then provide tax cuts and basic research or underwrite liability. Just like ethanol, the guvment CANNOT make intelligent decisions on the market, they never have and never will. They WILL however make lobbyists richer.

And they will also get politicians elected who speak the lingo.

[dude1394]

The Pelosi Premium

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by jefelump

Are you saying we should trust Government to come up with an alternative fuel? Look at the big Ethanol push, and the subsequent food crisis. Fuel and energy in general is not the expertise of government.

why not? we trust the government to fund things like NASA. I'd rather give the space agency a ton of extra money to work on alt. fuels rather than Exxon. if nothing else, we'd probably get some cool technology out of it...

[Ninkobei]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The Pelosi Premium

seriously, if you think Republicans can bring Oil down to 2 dollars a gallon again you are nuts. The world demands too much of it and investors are making a ton of money off it..they'd never give that up.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The Pelosi Premium

It goes to show that you have no clue about economics...

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

seriously, if you think Republicans can bring Oil down to 2 dollars a gallon again you are nuts. The world demands too much of it and investors are making a ton of money off it..they'd never give that up.

Of course they can't, this is politics. I DO HOWEVER believe that we can transfer quite a bit of the dollars we are sending overseas to energy development here at home.

And it very nicely illustrates that the democrats and liberals are part of the problem here and have no solutions other than reduced economic growth.

What do you think the effect on oil prices would be if tommorrow the US guvment fast-tracked every single one of those items in that list? If you think no effect I disagree, it would have an immediate one.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Arne

It goes to show that you have no clue about economics...

No it shows you have no clue about politics.

[mcsluggo]

Originally Posted by dude1394

The Pelosi Premium

hell-- why go with the low estimates in each case!

Clearly the if we followed the Republican plans we could reduce the price of gas by $4.78/gallon, and gas stations will pay us over 50 cents a gallon to take the stuff away...


that sounds like some sharp, reasonable, well thought out analysis.

[ShaggyDirk]

I wish everyone on the board would stick to talking sports & leisure. This is getting ridiculous.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

I wish everyone on the board would stick to talking sports & leisure. This is getting ridiculous.

Yeah, I used to stay away from the Political Forums, but now I check in regularly out of curiosity - you never know what stupid crap people will say next! (I even say stupid crap just to fit in around here - I don't want anyone to suspect me of being a tourist...)

Are the Finals over yet???

[ShaggyDirk]

Well, I find it hard to come in here because posters I respect outside of this forum sound like fools in here. but, like you, I just can't help it. I have always liked the circus.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDirk

Well, I find it hard to come in here because posters I respect outside of this forum sound like fools in here. but, like you, I just can't help it. I have always liked the circus.

I know - that's the worst part about it (and if you express yourself in opposition to their beliefs, you might start to notice certain individuals treating you differently in other forums on this site...)

[ShaggyDirk]

beliefs vs. reality

that is the problem.

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Maybe WE should drill here.

The Pelosi Premium. Heh..

This defeats me so hard. What is wrong with our government?

I am so tired of hearing about oil companies, profits, and taxes...the only solution I want to hear about needs to have words like "drilling" "new rigs" "continental shelf" or something about the estimates TRILLION barrels in the porous shale rock underneath the western part of our country. WE NEED TO START DRILLING.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

WE NEED TO START DRILLING.

Or at least block other countries from drilling in our backyards. I thought the strategy was to let the rest of the world exhaust their oil supplies first. Some conspiracy this is turning out to be...

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

WE NEED TO START DRILLING.

That's what she said.

[jefelump]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

why not? we trust the government to fund things like NASA. I'd rather give the space agency a ton of extra money to work on alt. fuels rather than Exxon. if nothing else, we'd probably get some cool technology out of it...

We also trust the government to fund the military, and the US Postal service. There are some things government can do, and other things government should stay out of. Government tried to fix the energy crisis by pushing ethanol, and now we have a food crisis. Robbing peter to pay paul?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

why not? we trust the government to fund things like NASA. I'd rather give the space agency a ton of extra money to work on alt. fuels rather than Exxon. if nothing else, we'd probably get some cool technology out of it...

The American Economy machine is effective and easy to predict. The American Government is ineffective and completely predictable only to screw up in most matters not specifically spelled out in the Constitution.

Here is how it will work IF the US Government will just stay out of the way:
1)Prolonged high fuel prices produces a market for alternative fuel. Alternative fuel is expensive and can only be achieved if the profits will support it. If fuel prices are to stay high, then alternative fuel will happen
2)Businesses will expand into alternative energy to fill that void. A void in the economy will fill up almost as fast as a void in a body of air or water where no dam or other barrier exists
3)It is possible that new businesses will emerge but those with the money in the first place are the most likely to succeed in expansion. Look at the mobile phone and wireless communication systems as an example. All of the new companies that started up failed and the old companies bought them out and changed names and restructured.


Here is how it worked when the government was in charge:
1)Politics saw an unhappy farmer who was making more corn than the market needed which overproduction drove the price of the corn down.
2)Politics saw that the farmer used petroleum based fertilizers to grow the crop (fertilizer is another petroleum product).
3)Politics saw raising oil prices.
4)Politics saw that the farmer was about to really get hammered by the issue of cheap corn and expensive fertilizer and expensive diesel fuel and natural gas and other fuel expenses.
5)Politics already knew that corn to ethanol was a bad idea for the nation
6)Politics knew that the corn to ethanol "solution" was a solution for the farmer and the Midwest USA.
7)Politicians chose to subsidize the farmer and subsidize the corn to ethanol process. By so doing, the eventual gallon ethanol could be sold cheaper than a gallon of gasoline. But, in reality, without the subsidies, the gallon of ethanol is more expensive than the gallon of gasoline.
8)Politicians knew that corn to ethanol would eliminate the overproduction of corn and produce a situation where it would be impossible to ever over produce corn.
9)Politicians knew that this would dramatically increase the value of corn so that the farmer could afford to buy fertilizer and handle the other increased costs of operation.
10)Politicians knew this would be a good thing for the Midwest USA.
11)Politicians don't want to talk about how it screws the rest of the nation...
12)Politicians know (but won't talk about) that higher corn prices (they have tripled in price, the farmer used to get 2.25 per bushel of corn in a good year and now the price is around 6 dollars a bushel) would drive up the cost of beef and pork. Politicians know that the vast majority of all corn production is used for feed for cows and pigs. So, now the rancher has to pay three times more for the feed he uses to give us the beef and pork. So, the price of beef and pork sky rockets...
13)Politicians also already knew that the process of making ethanol was absolutely wasteful of the coal used to make the electricity to drive the process of ethanol production. More energy is spent on the end product than the end product gives us...

So...

All in favor of government solutions, move to Canada until your education is adequate to come back to the USA and elect to let the Business of America take care of America...