From the desk of Dick Durbin

[dude1394]

Durbin (mr. holocaust) seems to make a habit or soaring rhetoric.

From the Desk of Senator Dick

An ongoing series featuring the correspondence of Senator Richard Durbin (D-IL), America's most dynamic metaphorist

********************************

Mr. Hector Gutierrez
Gutierrez Bros. Landscaping
Arlington, VA

Dear Mr. Gutierrez:

Nothing could have prepared me for the shock that awaited as I exited the front door of my home early Wednesday morning, where I discovered that your lawn crew had cut a swath of environmental destruction across my yard so horrifying that it only can be compared to the Rape of Nanking. I can scarcely bring myself to describe the killing fields that are my North azalea beds and the brutal degradation and torture suffered by the bluegrass around the locust tree by the rear patio. I am writing to inform you that I have contacted the US Department of Interior to conduct a full independent investigation into Gutierrez Brothers' actions in this matter. Please be advised that you may be subpoenaed for records pertaining to mower height, pruning shear maintenance, and leaf blower emissions. I would also advise your crewmen to heed the lessons of the Judgement At Nurenburg: although they may be spared the justice due their superiors, "I was only following orders" is not an excuse.

Sincerely,

Senator Richard J. Durbin
Washington, DC

iowahawk

[dude1394]

Durbin finally apologizes. Who sez the media isn't powerful!!

---------------
Under Fire, Durbin Issues Belated Apology

June 17th, 2005

WASHINGTON (APUPI) Amidst growing outrage at his comparisons of US troops to Pol Pot's regime, Nazis and Stalin's gulag, Illinois Senator Richard Durbin backed off from his earlier comments today, reading from a prepared statement outside his office that he hadn't meant to directly compare the situations:

"I now realize that my comments unjustly slandered many people in southeast Asia and other places who were, like the Democratic Party, simply trying to create a better and more equitable society, and did not intend to compare what they did to the horrific atrocities that were occurring, and continue to occur, in Guantanamo. I wish to deeply apologize to those, like International A.N.S.W.E.R, who properly took umbrage at such an odious equivalence. I hope that this apology will finally lay this issue to rest."

He refused to take any further questions.

[Mavdog]

Many may not have read what Dick Durbin said and the above parodies, here's the section of his speech (from The Congressional Record)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To win the war on terrorism, we must remain true to the principles upon which our country was founded. This Administration’s detention and interrogation policies are placing our troops at risk and making it harder to combat terrorism. Former Congressman Pete Peterson of Florida, a man I call a good friend
and a man I served with in the House of Representatives, is a unique individual. He is one of the most cheerful people you would ever want to meet. You
would never know, when you meet him, he was an Air Force pilot taken prisoner of war in Vietnam and spent 61⁄2 years in a Vietnamese prison. Here is
what he said about this issue in a letter that he sent to me. Pete Peterson wrote:

From my 61⁄2 years of captivity in Vietnam, I know what life in a foreign prison is like. To a large degree, I credit the Geneva Conventions for my survival. . . . This is one reason the United States has led the world in upholding treaties governing the status and care of enemy prisoners: because these
standards also protect us. . . . We need absolute clarity that America will continue to set the gold standard in the treatment of prisoners in wartime.

Abusive detention and interrogation policies make it much more difficult to win the support of people around the world, particularly those in the Muslim
world. The war on terrorism is not a popularity contest, but anti-American sentiment breeds sympathy for anti-American terrorist organizations and
makes it far easier for them to recruit young terrorists. Polls show that Muslims have positive attitudes toward the American people and our values. However, overall, favorable ratings toward the United States and its Government are very low. This is driven largely by the negative attitudes toward the policies of this administration. Muslims respect our values, but we must convince them that our actions reflect these values. That’s why the
9/11 Commission recommended:

We should offer an example of moral leadership in the world, committed to treat people humanely, abide by the rule of law, and be generous and caring to our neighbors.

What should we do? Imagine if the President had followed Colin Powell’s advice and respected our treaty obligations. How would things have been ifferent?
We still would have the ability to hold detainees and to interrogate them aggressively. Members of al-Qaida would not be prisoners of war. We would be able to do everything we need to do to keep our country safe. The difference is, we would not have damaged our reputation in the international community in the process. When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here—I almost hesitate to put them in the RECORD, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18–24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been
turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the
floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime—Pol Pot or others— that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator’s time has expired.
Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent for 3 additional minutes.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, it is so ordered.
Mr. DURBIN. It is not too late. I hope we will learn from history. I hope we will change course. The President could declare the United States will apply the Geneva Conventions to the war on terrorism. He could declare, as he should, that the United States will not, under any circumstances, subject any detainee to torture, or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. The administration could give all detainees a meaningful opportunity to challenge their detention before a neutral decisionmaker. Such a change of course would dramatically improve our image and it would make us safer. I hope this administration will choose that course. If they do not, Congress must step in. The issue debated in the press today misses the point. The issue is not about
closing Guantanamo Bay. It is not a question of the address of these prisoners. It is a question of how we treat these prisoners. To close down uantanamo
and ship these prisoners off to undisclosed locations in other countries, beyond the reach of publicity, beyond the reach of any surveillance, is to give up on the most basic and fundamental commitment to justice and fairness, a commitment we made when we signed the Geneva Convention and said the United States accepts it as the law of the land, a commitment which we have made over and over again when it comes to the issue of torture. To criticize the rest of the world for using torture and to turn a blind eye to what we are doing in this war is wrong, and it is not American. During the Civil War, President Lincoln, one of our greatest Presidents, suspended habeas corpus, which gives prisoners the right to challenge their detention. The Supreme Court stood up to the President and said prisoners have the right to judicial review even during war. Let me read what that Court said:

The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions could be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism.

Mr. President, those words still ring true today. The Constitution is a law for this administration, equally in war and in peace. If the Constitution could withstand the Civil War, when our Nation was literally divided against itself, surely it will withstand the war

link

[FishForLunch]

Why dont these windbag senators and congressmen just shut up. Now I know how Hillary our next president will handle the war on terrorism, blame America first and try to understand the Islamists. Is this uproar about Gitmo just politics or are the democrats truly self loathers?

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
Why dont these windbag senators and congressmen just shut up. Now I know how Hillary our next president will handle the war on terrorism, blame America first and try to understand the Islamists. Is this uproar about Gitmo just politics or are the democrats truly self loathers?

yeah, just who are they to aspire to uphold some of the most sacred values (and legal principles) of our country? [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[dude1394]

The Democratic Party. Number one with a bullet on Al-Jazeera.

[FishForLunch]

yeah, just who are they to aspire to uphold some of the most sacred values (and legal principles) of our country?

Like who, all the politicians are A holes

[dude1394]

Hoh boy...I want democrats in government so they can protect m.....er......terrorists.

From jack kelly

...Every American pilot or Special Forces soldier who has gone through SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) training has been treated far worse in mock prison camps than al Qatani and the others have been treated at Gitmo. Yet Amnesty International described Guantanamo Bay as the "gulag of our times."

There are some differences worth noting. About 9 million people died in Nazi concentration camps; 2.7 million in Soviet concentration camps, and about 1.7 million Cambodians (out of a population of 6 million) were killed by Pol Pot.

The number of detainees at Gitmo who have died is zero. The number of detainees who have suffered serious injuries at the hands of guards or interrogators is also zero.

There is one international organization with a legitimate beef about how the detainees are being treated: Weight Watchers.

The average weight gain among the prisoners at Guantanamo is 18 pounds, said a spokesman for the Joint Task Force there. This is because the detainees eat better than do U.S. soldiers in Iraq, says Rep. Duncan Hunter, the California Republican who is chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

Gitmo is the first POW camp in history where prisoners gain weight. Some gulag.

Mr. Durbin and fellow Democratic senators Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, and Patrick Leahy say Gitmo should be closed because it's giving America a black eye in world opinion.

Are they such weenies that they actually think having a finger poked in your chest is torture? Have they lost all moral sense, to make such outrageous comparisons?

Are liberals such fools as to imagine the detainees could be released without consequence? (A dozen of those released earlier have been recaptured or killed fighting again against America.)

What's giving America a black eye is the slander of our troops by Mr. Durbin, Amnesty, and others. Americans should be outraged, but not by the conduct of our soldiers.

[dude1394]

Turban Durbin is a hit!!

Form Mark Steyn

[G]ive Durbin credit. Every third-rate hack on every European newspaper can do the Americans-are-Nazis schtick. Amnesty International has already declared Guantanamo the "gulag of our times." But I do believe the senator is the first to compare the U.S. armed forces with the blood-drenched thugs of Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge. Way to go, senator! If you had a dime for every crackpot Web site that takes up your thoughtful historical comparison, you'd be able to retire to the Caribbean and spend the rest of your days torturing yourself with hot weather and loud music, as well as inappropriately provocative women and insufficient choice of hors d'oeuvres and all the other shameful atrocities committed at Guantanamo.

[Mavdog]

There very well could be deaths at guantanamo, we just don't know as we won't be told if we asked. since there have been over a hundred prisioners who have died while being interrogated by US forces elsewhere the odds are that some have also died at guantanamo.

if prisioners have died or not isn't the point. We are a nation of law, we should not attempt to exempt our government from our own set of law nor should or government attempt to ignore international agreements we've been a party to for decades. Follow our laws and follow the Geneva Convention.

[dude1394]

Prisoners at guantanamo are not covered by any law in the world. In fact, they are persona-non-grata in the world. They aren't covered by the geneva conventions since they do not wear uniforms nor are parts of a regular army. They certainly are not covered by any law in the US as they are not citizens. They are roaches to be dealt with as roaches are.

I'd just as soon we summarily try them as dangers to the country line them up and shoot them and be done with it. They are avowed terrorists who espouse the overthrow of our country and vow to kill americans wherever they can find them. I see no recourse to imprisonment forever or a death sentence. Since the limp-wrists of the left in this country cannot stand to have them in prison forever, a quick execution would make more sense.

It's a testament to our humanity that we haven't. It's a testament to the passivity of the democrats, their ability to somehow find moral equivalence between gitmo and the nazi concentration camps, the inability of the left-wing to defend their own country and the democrats pure america and bush hatred that keeps this self-flaggelation alive.

[MavKikiNYC]

I'm not particularly exercised by Guantánamo, or even by what's been ALLEGED to've gone on.

But I think it's a pretty poor choice of words to refer to the "limp-wrists of the left". Not surprising, considering the source, but poor.

FWIW, would you lump McCain in that group? I'm guessing not.

McCain weighs in on Guantanamo debate

BY CAROL ROSENBERG

Knight Ridder Newspapers

(KRT) - Arguing that "even Adolf Eichmann got a trial,'' Republican Sen. John McCain said Sunday that the Bush administration must establish a system to try and perhaps free suspected terrorists from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba - even if they turn around and attack the United States.

"Some of these guys are terrible, terrible killers and the worst kind of scum of humanity,'' the Arizona senator said on NBC News' "Meet the Press" of the 520 men from dozens of nations who have been swept up around the globe in the war on terror.

But, "they deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,'' he said, despite a "fear that, if you release them, they'll go back and fight against us. Balance that against what it's doing to our reputation throughout the world and whether it's enhancing recruiting for people to join al-Qaida and do bad things to the United States of America.''

Israel hanged Eichmann in 1962 for deporting Jews and others to Germany's concentration and death camps during World War II, when 6 million Jews were killed. Israel sent agents to secretly snatch Eichmann in 1960 from an anonymous life in Argentina, then put him on public trial in Jerusalem.

Sunday marked the third week that Washington politicians stirred the Sunday morning talk shows with debate over what to do about the three-year-old prison complex - which has been condemned by human rights groups as mistreating prisoners, in part because it allegedly denies captives due process.

The Bush administration says the prison camp in Cuba is humane and that the captives are Taliban or al-Qaida members, or their sympathizers.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice defended the policy from Jerusalem on CNN: "The president has an obligation to protect the American people. We had to take these people off the battlefield, we had to get intelligence,'' she said, alleging that some captives released from Guantanamo in the past years had turned up on "the battlefield again.''

Jane Harman, D-Calif., the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said Congress needed to intervene by legislating new policies on detention and interrogations. "Probably we should detain (suspected terrorists) on U.S. soil, which is not Guantanamo,'' she said. "The hard part is try them under what laws and where?''

McCain is emerging as a voice of conscience and nuance on the stay-or-go Guantanamo issue. A veteran Navy pilot who spent more than five years as a prisoner of war at Vietnam's "Hanoi Hilton,'' he has repeatedly avoided the issue of whether U.S. troops mistreat the detainees and focused instead on the policies they carry out.

He agreed with former presidential candidate Ross Perot - who worked to improve the treatment of American POWs in Vietnam - that reports of abuses at Guantanamo could become an incentive to treat future captives brutally. "We will not have as high a moral ground the next time we are in a conflict and Americans should become prisoners of war,'' he warned. "And it worries me, it keeps me awake at night. It really does.''

But McCain also urged fellow Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., to read Alexander Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago and "apologize to soldiers who are serving, doing the job they are told to do and in a humanitarian fashion.''

Durbin has been widely criticized by Republicans for an emotional speech he made on the Senate floor last week, likening FBI reports of military tactics used at the base in Cuba to techniques used in Nazi Germany, the Soviet gulag and Pol Pot's Cambodian "killing fields.''

Durbin said Friday that he never meant to insult American troops but was being "critical of the policies of this administration, which add to the risk our soldiers face.''

On ABC, Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., called the Durbin flap a diversion about the real question of whether Guantanamo should remain open or be closed.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Prisoners at guantanamo are not covered by any law in the world. In fact, they are persona-non-grata in the world. They aren't covered by the geneva conventions since they do not wear uniforms nor are parts of a regular army. They certainly are not covered by any law in the US as they are not citizens. They are roaches to be dealt with as roaches are.

The SCOUS strongly disagrees with your opinion. They are either civilians, combatants or criminals.
The Administration IS "covered" by US law, and they MUST follow the law.

I'd just as soon we summarily try them as dangers to the country line them up and shoot them and be done with it. They are avowed terrorists who espouse the overthrow of our country and vow to kill americans wherever they can find them. I see no recourse to imprisonment forever or a death sentence. Since the limp-wrists of the left in this country cannot stand to have them in prison forever, a quick execution would make more sense.

well, first one must be tried in a court, which isn't happening. We actually don't know what they are, what they belive in, or how they became captgured as...they haven't been charged. It is against the law of our country to hold a person indefinitely without being charged with a crime. Charge them and bring eveidence. it's really pretty simple.

It's a testament to our humanity that we haven't. It's a testament to the passivity of the democrats, their ability to somehow find moral equivalence between gitmo and the nazi concentration camps, the inability of the left-wing to defend their own country and the democrats pure america and bush hatred that keeps this self-flaggelation alive.

There is no "humanity" in holding a person for years, incommunicado, without their being charged with a crime. Unfortunately for the Bush Administration, the denial of legal rights has more in common with the aforementioned Nazis than it does our own Constitution.

It is a defense of our country to aspire to uphold our laws, and to have our country uphold the long tradition of honoring its obligations to the treaties to which it is a party to.

It is a defamation of our country to have its leaders attempt to ignore the laws which they swore to uphold.

[FishForLunch]

Fight against Islamic Terror is not a party. The soonner we screw the Geneva horseshit the sonner those bastards will be eradicated. You liberals just think everybody needs to be understood.

[FishForLunch]

A slander on our troops

IN A speech on the Senate floor Tuesday, the assistant Democratic leader likened the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay to Nazi, Soviet, and Cambodian concentration camps.



Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois said some detainees were chained to the floor for long periods of time, subjected to uncomfortable extremes of temperature and forced to listen to loud rap music.

"If I read this to you and did not tell you it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe that this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets, in their gulags, or some other mad regime - Pol Pot or others - that had no concern for human beings," Senator Durbin said.

Time magazine obtained, and last weekend published, excerpts from the secret interrogation log of "Detainee 063," Mohammed al Qahtani, an intimate of Osama bin Laden who, it is thought, would have been the 20th hijacker had he not been denied entry into the United States in August, 2001. He was later captured in Afghanistan.

The log, Time said, "offers a rare glimpse into the darker reaches of intelligence gathering, in which teams that specialize in extracting information by almost any means match wits and wills with men who are trained to keep quiet at almost any cost."

Time detailed some of the nefarious methods used by U.S. interrogators to get Qahtani to talk. He was stripped naked. He was forced to stand for prolonged periods. He was deprived of sleep. Water was poured over his head. A female interrogator invaded his personal space. Sometimes interrogators would poke him in the chest with their fingers. And he was forced to listen to Christina Aguilera music.

Every American pilot or Special Forces soldier who has gone through SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) training has been treated far worse in mock prison camps than al Qatani and the others have been treated at Gitmo. Yet Amnesty International described Guantanamo Bay as the "gulag of our times."

There are some differences worth noting. About 9 million people died in Nazi concentration camps; 2.7 million in Soviet concentration camps, and about 1.7 million Cambodians (out of a population of 6 million) were killed by Pol Pot.

The number of detainees at Gitmo who have died is zero. The number of detainees who have suffered serious injuries at the hands of guards or interrogators is also zero.

There is one international organization with a legitimate beef about how the detainees are being treated: Weight Watchers.

The average weight gain among the prisoners at Guantanamo is 18 pounds, said a spokesman for the Joint Task Force there. This is because the detainees eat better than do U.S. soldiers in Iraq, says Rep. Duncan Hunter, the California Republican who is chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

Gitmo is the first POW camp in history where prisoners gain weight. Some gulag.

Mr. Durbin and fellow Democratic senators Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, and Patrick Leahy say Gitmo should be closed because it's giving America a black eye in world opinion.

Are they such weenies that they actually think having a finger poked in your chest is torture? Have they lost all moral sense, to make such outrageous comparisons?

Are liberals such fools as to imagine the detainees could be released without consequence? (A dozen of those released earlier have been recaptured or killed fighting again against America.)

What's giving America a black eye is the slander of our troops by Mr. Durbin, Amnesty, and others. Americans should be outraged, but not by the conduct of our soldiers.

[dude1394]

Dang facts are frustrating things, the left tries to get around them but they just keep hanging in there.

american spectator

IF YOU BELIEVE THE DEANOCRATS and their media pals, we're holding people incommunicado, in a legal limbo, where innocents are beaten, starved, and tortured, that America is an international outlaw, that Gitmo is OBL's best recruiting tool, that we're violating the Geneva Conventions, and that all the Islamic fascisti would join with us to sing Kumbaya if only we closed Gitmo. Enough. You won't get your teens to read all three volumes of Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago. But you may, at least, be able to get them to read from here to the bottom of this article.

We're holding people there incommunicado? According to 1st Lt. Wade Brown, the chief mail man at Gitmo, every detainee at Gitmo, regardless of his conduct, is allowed mail privileges unless he can't be trusted with a pen because he's threatened to harm himself. Lt. Brown, in a sworn declaration dated March 17, 2005, said that from September 2004 through February 2005, 14,000 pieces of mail were sent or received by detainees at Gitmo.

Legal limbo? Some 800 suspected terrorists have, so far, been incarcerated at Gitmo. All of them have had their cases reviewed by military commissions. About 235 have been released, 61 are today awaiting release or transfer, and about 520 remain, having been given all the due process to which they are entitled by U.S. and international law, including the Geneva Conventions. They are enemy combatants. We are entitled to hold them until the war is over whether it's tomorrow or in 2525

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Dang facts are frustrating things, the left tries to get around them but they just keep hanging in there.

american spectator

The question is NOT if the US has the right to hold them if they are shown to be combatants.
The bolded is not correct information, only "a handful" as I have read have been brought before a military tribunal. I wonder what this writer is basing this disinformation on?

[FishForLunch]

Is a Military Commision and Military Tribunal one and the same?

All of them have had their cases reviewed by military commissions. About 235 have been released, 61 are today awaiting release or transfer, and about 520 remain, having been given all the due process to which they are entitled by U.S. and international law, including the Geneva Conventions. They are enemy combatants. We are entitled to hold them until the war is over whether it's tomorrow or in 2525

But Mavdog say's

The question is NOT if the US has the right to hold them if they are shown to be combatants. The bolded is not correct information, only "a handful" as I have read have been brought before a military tribunal. I wonder what this writer is basing this disinformation on?

I still cannot understand the desire of democrats to take up for these Islamists rights? Lets say Bush's term runs out tomorrow and a democrat is in power, will all the detainess in Gitmo be released/jailed after a trial with the ACLU representing those evil bastard Islamists.

[dude1394]

And another eyewitness account of the "torture" and the secrecy that these poor pathetic serial murderers are subjected to.

betsys page
--------------
Ken Svendsen, a former chaplain at Guantanamo who left there just a few months ago, speaks out on what he knows about the conditions there.

There are those who would use accusations such as those recently made against our military as weapons to gain political power. They count on the fact that people will believe something if its said enough times and said by people and organizations they respect. It was the case in the past that our nation's opponents tried to prevent our culture and news sources from reaching their people. After all, the ideas of freedom, democracy, and equality for all doesn't play well in some parts of the world. So since modern technology cannot be stopped and "world news" is now also news to the world there is now a new strategy. They use it to their advantage as a weapon against our nation.

The accusations are flying fast and furious. If your organization would be interested in knowing about my experience. (I cannot talk about the day to day activities in the camp but I can either verify or deny many of the accusations that are being made.) Here's a list that might help you if you're willing to listen to an Ordained Elder who knows the facts rather than accusations made based on speculation. I'll respond here specifically to some of the ones I've heard.

1. The detainees have direct access to the International Red Cross representatives contrary to the accusations that they have no outside contact. Also, all the detainees are allowed to write and receive mail from family.

2. The detainees have their food prepared according to Islamic guidelines. The call to prayer is broadcast for them to go to prayer. Each detainee has the direction to Meccah painted in their cell. They are allowed to practice their religion without interference and are given the religious items they need to do so. They are allowed to observe Ramadan.

3. There are strict guidelines and training concerning human rights protections. If a service member sees a violation they are to report it and if asked to violate someone's human rights they are to consider it as an unlawful order. Those who violate are subject to prosecution.

As Jim Geraghty (from whom I found this letter) points out, who is more believable, an Army chaplain or a terrorist trained to lie about the conditions of his imprisonment? We know whom Bill Clinton believes. But I'm willing to give our military the benefit of the doubt until I see evidence to the contrary. Alas, Richard Cohen is not.

What amazes me is that it has become an accepted verity among certain people that we are indeed torturing people at Guantanamo.
posted by Betsy 10:34 AM

[dude1394]

I still cannot understand the desire of democrats to take up for these Islamists rights? Lets say Bush's term runs out tomorrow and a democrat is in power, will all the detainess in Gitmo be released/jailed after a trial with the ACLU representing those evil bastard Islamists.

Not if a democrat was elected. Then they'd stand up and tell us what a strong prez' they had keeping mass-murderes in prison.

[dude1394]

About stinking time, now remove him from the dem leadership, better yet vote his stinking arse out. Boo stinkin hoo... I wonder if he got that quake in his voice like clinton did when he was caught. Wanna bet Al-jazeera doesn't cover this part.

-------------
WASHINGTON - Under fire from Republicans and some fellow Democrats, Sen. Dick Durbin apologized Tuesday for comparing American interrogators at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to Nazis and other historically infamous figures.
ADVERTISEMENT

"Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line," the Illinois Democrat said. "To them I extend my heartfelt apologies."

His voice quaking and tears welling in his eyes, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate also apologized to any soldiers who felt insulted by his remarks.

"They're the best. I never, ever intended any disrespect for them," he said.

The apology came a week after Durbin, the Senate minority whip, quoted from an
FBI agent's report describing detainees at the Naval base in a U.S.-controlled portion of Cuba as being chained to the floor without food or water in extreme temperatures.

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings," the senator said June 14.

The comment created a buzz on the Internet and among conservative talk radio hosts, but Durbin initially refused to apologize.

"This administration should apologize to the American people for abandoning the Geneva Conventions and authorizing torture techniques that put our troops at risk and make Americans less secure," he said the day after his initial comments.

By last Friday, Durbin was trying to clarify his comments, yet the White House and top Republicans including Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist refused to relent. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in an interview scheduled for broadcast Wednesday on Fox News radio's "The Tony Snow Show," tried to equate the comment with actress Jane Fonda calling U.S. soldiers war criminals during a visit to North Vietnam in 1972.

On Tuesday, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley — a fellow Democrat — added his voice to the chorus of criticism, saying, "I think it's a disgrace to say that any man or woman in the military would act like that."

Durbin said in his apology: "I made reference to Nazis, to Soviets, and other repressive regimes. Mr. President, I've come to understand that's a very poor choice of words."

[dude1394]

However possibly there is hope for the democratic party but I don't know. There aren't too many Zell Millers or "now" Richard Daley's in the party anymore. Daley is on the mark getting pissed about some reporter trying to minimize turban durbins smear job.

The mayor said he is a history buff and that Durbin was wrong to evoke comparisons to the horrors of the Holocaust or the millions of people killed in Russia under Stalin and in Cambodia under Pol Pot. He became angry when a reporter said he thought Durbin's remarks were being mischaracterized.

"If you really believe that those men and women in Guantanamo Bay are Nazis, you better rethink what America is all about,'' Daley said. "... You go and talk to some victims of the Holocaust and they will tell you horror stories. And there are not horror stories like that at Guantanamo Bay.''

On Friday, Durbin said he had learned "that historical parallels can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said caused anyone to misunderstand my true feelings: Our soldiers around the world and their families at home deserve our respect, admiration and total support.''

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
Is a Military Commision and Military Tribunal one and the same?

it seems that a Tribunal is held to more secrecy than a Commission. In Bush's 2001 order establishing the right of the DofD to hold proceedings the two terms are both used.

Pres directive

All of them have had their cases reviewed by military commissions. About 235 have been released, 61 are today awaiting release or transfer, and about 520 remain, having been given all the due process to which they are entitled by U.S. and international law, including the Geneva Conventions. They are enemy combatants. We are entitled to hold them until the war is over whether it's tomorrow or in 2525

But Mavdog say's

I still cannot understand the desire of democrats to take up for these Islamists rights? Lets say Bush's term runs out tomorrow and a democrat is in power, will all the detainess in Gitmo be released/jailed after a trial with the ACLU representing those evil bastard Islamists.

Even the directive by Bush is specific that those charged will be afforded rights. EVERY defendant in our judicial system is provided certain basic rights...including the right to a defense lawyer. No matter how repulsive you may find someone, if they be Nazis or Fascist, Islamist or not, they get the right to counsel.

It's funny that you call all those in Guantanamo "evil bastard Islamists" . As many haven't ever been actually charged with anything, we really don't know just what or who they are.

So far you've taken two strong anti-American positions, that these detainees are guilty until proven innocent and that they don't deserve counsel.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
There very well could be deaths at guantanamo, we just don't know as we won't be told if we asked.

Still think the worse since we find out these guys have mail service, have had their cases reviewed and the red cross has free acess to them. What flavor kool-aid is that?

since there have been over a hundred prisioners who have died while being interrogated by US forces elsewhere the odds are that some have also died at guantanamo.

Care to show SOMETHING that hints that any of these "hundred" prisioners you talk about died due to mistreatement.

if prisioners have died or not isn't the point. We are a nation of law, we should not attempt to exempt our government from our own set of law nor should or government attempt to ignore international agreements we've been a party to for decades. Follow our laws and follow the Geneva Convention.

And of course since we ARE following the geneva convention AND our own laws, what are the dems going to lie about the country next? Turban Durbin showed the type of backbone he possessed, only when his political ass was being threatened did he take anything back. Pathetic excuse for a political party. When Trent Lott spoke out in much less incendiary terms than this it was conservatives who called for his head.

The dems in this case defend this idiot. Pathetic.

[chumdawg]

Typical liberal apology. They never apologize for thinking what they were thinking in the first place. They never apologize for what they actually did. They just apologize that someone else was offended by it.

[dude1394]

Wonder who this hero will vote for..I don't think Zell Miller is on the ticket.

-----------
powerline

Last night we posted a partial transcript of Hugh Hewitt's interview with Lt. Peter Hegseth, a Minnesota native who has just returned after a year at Guantanamo Bay. Today, Lt. Hegseth sent the following letter to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which editorially endorsed Dick Durbin's comparison of our troops to Nazis, Communisists and Khmer Rouge killers:

As a recent veteran of Guantanamo Bay, I've been troubled by the willingness of some (namely this editorial page) to make uninformed inflammatory statements about the detention operations at GTMO. I believe that if any one of them had the opportunity to visit GTMO and witness the operation first hand, they would change their tone, if not their minds altogether.

Not only are the detainees treated humanely (top-notch medical care, hearty meals, recreational facilities, full access to religious observance, etc..) but I personally witnessed instances when detainees did not want to leave. It was not uncommon for my platoon to guard an airfield for hours in preparation for sending a detainee home, only to turn around and bring him back to the detention facility – because he refused to leave! These detainees are not stupid—they know that real torture and inhumane treatment await them at home. And while I know they’re not happy to be in GTMO, they rest assured that they will be treated well because Americans play by the rules.

I feel sheepish even having to defend this issue. While our servicemen (and innocent Iraqi citizens) are being blown-up and tortured overseas, the media obsesses over a handful of “mishandled” Korans and excessive air conditioning. (It’s also worth noting that these so-called instances of “abuse” at GTMO were all uncovered by internal Army investigations! It’s not as if the Army is torturing people and covering it up. On the contrary, the minute the Army gets wind of minor misconduct it swiftly removes and prosecutes those involved. This is an institution upholding the highest moral traditions of our country.) Would the terrorists do the same? No, I think they’d just wink at us…and then cut our heads off.

LT Peter Hegseth
Forest Lake, MN
U.S. Army National Guard, Infantry

[dude1394]

her greatness
If you still have any doubts about whether closing Guantanamo is the right thing to do, Jimmy Carter recently cleared that up by demanding that it be closed. With any luck, he'll try to effect another one of those daring "rescue" attempts. Here's a foolproof method for keeping America safe: Always do the exact 180-degree opposite of whatever Jimmy Carter says as quickly as possible. (Instead of Guantanamo, how about we close down the Carter Center?)

[FishForLunch]

I know who the enemy is and how they think first hand. I am an first generation immigrant and I know first hand the effects of these Islamists. They can never be appeased ever unless you want to convert to Wahhabi Islam. I am not a christian so I dont have any religious agenda and I have nothing against Islam, my Brother In Law is a good Muslim.

The only way these Islamists can be stopped is with brutal force, sorry if it is upsetting to you, but that how it is in the real world.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Still think the worse since we find out these guys have mail service, have had their cases reviewed and the red cross has free acess to them. What flavor kool-aid is that?

no, we haven't "found out [the prisioners] had their cases reviewed". There have been four commission hearings, and none since November 2004. Care to back up your claim with any facts?

The only way to find out what "the worse" the prisioners at Guantanamo have lived is to completely comply to all our laws and treaties, which was not done (see the SCOUS ruling).

since there have been over a hundred prisioners who have died while being interrogated by US forces elsewhere the odds are that some have also died at guantanamo.

Care to show SOMETHING that hints that any of these "hundred" prisioners you talk about died due to mistreatement. [/quote]

not that "mistreatment" is inherent in any of the deaths, it could lack of treatment for instance. The point is that attempts to acheive secrecy of the activities at Guantanamo leaves these type of questions open.

here's one news release quoting our own DofD:
"US Military Calls 2 Dozen Detainee Deaths Homicide
Reuters | March 16, 2005
By Will Dunham
WASHINGTON - At least two dozen detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan have died at the hands of U.S. forces in confirmed or suspected cases of criminal homicide, military officials said on Wednesday.

if prisioners have died or not isn't the point. We are a nation of law, we should not attempt to exempt our government from our own set of law nor should or government attempt to ignore international agreements we've been a party to for decades. Follow our laws and follow the Geneva Convention.

And of course since we ARE following the geneva convention AND our own laws, what are the dems going to lie about the country next? Turban Durbin showed the type of backbone he possessed, only when his political ass was being threatened did he take anything back. Pathetic excuse for a political party. When Trent Lott spoke out in much less incendiary terms than this it was conservatives who called for his head.

The dems in this case defend this idiot. Pathetic.[/quote]

Guess you missed the SCOUS slapping the Bush Administration for not following the law. The Bush Administration is trying to not follow US law, not follow the Geneva Convention. Wake up, you're missing out on all these current events.