05-22-2007, 03:51 PM
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#1
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Member
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Would you trade Dirk for Oden?
This debate is hypothetical.
but its very hard to say no what do you guys think?
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05-22-2007, 03:54 PM
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#2
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Diamond Member
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nope...... bird in hand is worth two in the bush
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05-22-2007, 03:55 PM
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#3
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Guru
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If you want to go into the lottery next year.
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09-21-2007, 01:15 AM
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#4
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Member
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Posts: 408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
If you want to go into the lottery next year.
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+1
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05-22-2007, 03:56 PM
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#5
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Rooting for the laundry
Join Date: May 2006
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Does he have more MVP's than Dirk?
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05-22-2007, 04:00 PM
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#6
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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ummm....
......well.
it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.
still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....
Great interior big men = NBA championships.
oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.
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05-22-2007, 04:04 PM
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#7
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
ummm....
......well.
it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.
still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....
Great interior big men = NBA championships.
oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.
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That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.
I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.
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05-22-2007, 04:05 PM
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#8
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.
I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.
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You really think it's a 50/50 shot that Oden is a HOF center?
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05-22-2007, 05:03 PM
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#9
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
You really think it's a 50/50 shot that Oden is a HOF center?
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I do. I wouldn't have said that halfway through the season but he showed me a lot when he put up 25 in the biggest game of his career. I think he has a chance to be a good offensive center. Defensively I don't think there's much doubt about his ability to be a force.
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05-22-2007, 05:05 PM
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#10
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
I do. I wouldn't have said that halfway through the season but he showed me a lot when he put up 25 in the biggest game of his career. I think he has a chance to be a good offensive center. Defensively I don't think there's much doubt about his ability to be a force.
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Well, if in your mind you think it's a 50/50 shot that he's a center along the lines of Duncan and Olajuwon, then yeah, you make that trade I think.
I think it's a 50/50 shot that he's even Alonzo Mourning, myself.
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05-22-2007, 04:18 PM
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#11
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.
I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.
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And Ewing had the misfortune of playing through the prime of his career at the same time the single greatest player to ever walk the earth was teamed with another top 50 all-time great player.
at the least -- i'd bet a nickle that whoever gets the number 1 overall will not trade it for anything....anything.
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05-23-2007, 01:47 AM
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#12
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Golden Member
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Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.
I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.
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Dwight Howard seems to be a great big man as well... Where are his rings?
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05-23-2007, 02:00 AM
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#13
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arne
Dwight Howard seems to be a great big man as well... Where are his rings?
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Are you serious? He's been in the league three years. Plus Dwight Howard needs to develop a shot besides the dunk before we call him great.
If you wanted to use a current player to make you point Yao would have worked better.
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05-22-2007, 04:04 PM
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#14
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
ummm....
......well.
it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.
still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....
Great interior big men = NBA championships.
oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.
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The key word in there is might.
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05-22-2007, 04:00 PM
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#15
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Come on people, we can do better than this.
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05-22-2007, 04:00 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: David Sterns living-room
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C: Oden
PF:
SF: Josh
SG:
PG: Harris
All we need is to fill the 2 spots.
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05-22-2007, 04:02 PM
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#17
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple&Gold
C: Oden
PF:
SF: Josh
SG:
PG: Harris
All we need is to fill the 2 spots.
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To what, make the 8th seed?
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05-22-2007, 04:06 PM
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
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Who in the hell would trade an MVP in his prime for a player who hasn't played 1 second in the NBA?
Lunacy.
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05-22-2007, 04:36 PM
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#19
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyDub
Who in the hell would trade an MVP in his prime for a player who hasn't played 1 second in the NBA?
Lunacy.
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Exactly. Trading a guy that just won MVP for a big man that MIGHT be the next great thing is still not worth it because of the gamble. It is quite a gamble, and not worth it when we already have a team on the verge of a championship.
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05-22-2007, 04:42 PM
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#20
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13
Exactly. Trading a guy that just won MVP for a big man that MIGHT be the next great thing is still not worth it because of the gamble. It is quite a gamble, and not worth it when we already have a team on the verge of a championship.
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this is where I believe you have to weigh the risk v. the reward....
....HOF guard or forward = playoff success that might rival Tracy McGrady's;
....HOF Center = decade of dominance.
Basketball is now, always has been and shall always be a big man's game played in the paint. The reward for landing a great center is so great that few risks are not worth taking.
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05-22-2007, 04:43 PM
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#21
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
this is where I believe you have to weigh the risk v. the reward....
....HOF guard or forward = playoff success that might rival Tracy McGrady's;
....HOF Center = decade of dominance.
Basketball is now, always has been and shall always be a big man's game played in the paint. The reward for landing a great center is so great that few risks are not worth taking.
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Might rival Tracy McGrady's????
Are you being serious with that?
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05-22-2007, 04:53 PM
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#22
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Might rival Tracy McGrady's????
Are you being serious with that?
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yes --
i'm saying that you could gamble on a guard, subsequently find out that he really is a great guard, and then exit the first round on a fairly consistent basis.
on the other hand if you gamble on a big man and hit a home run you're a perennial contender...
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05-22-2007, 04:06 PM
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#23
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Diamond Member
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I would in 3 years if Dirk still doesn't have a ring.
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05-22-2007, 04:12 PM
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#24
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Member
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Jthig getting Oden sets this franchise for another 8-10 years.
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05-22-2007, 04:16 PM
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#25
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple&Gold
Jthig getting Oden sets this franchise for another 8-10 years.
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You THINK.
Oden could EASILY just be an above average center for 10 years.
It's a ridiculous question, imo.
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05-22-2007, 04:15 PM
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#26
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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yeah, if the mavs traded Dirk straight up for Oden next year they'd take a step back.
but then again oden will be....what, probably 20 years old next year???? i'm thinking that's 15 great years of mavs b-ball right there.
Wilt was in his late 30's and playing 40+ minutes per game when he won his last championship. Kareem was a huge presence on championship teams in his 40's. Tim Duncan, like Bill Russell, will be weighed down by his rings before age catches up with him. Shaq just got fat and proud of himself, but he could be a force for years to come if he wasn't such an idiot.
I love Dirk -- seriously, I'd happily handle his man-grooming issues if it'd get him a ring.....but when it comes to really, really great big men -- i mean paint clogging, board hammering, post your ass up big men -- there are no comparisons.
A great big man >>>>> anything else
these things aren't even close.
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05-22-2007, 04:19 PM
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#27
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Guru
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Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos
yeah, if the mavs traded Dirk straight up for Oden next year they'd take a step back.
but then again oden will be....what, probably 20 years old next year???? i'm thinking that's 15 great years of mavs b-ball right there.
Wilt was in his late 30's and playing 40+ minutes per game when he won his last championship. Kareem was a huge presence on championship teams in his 40's. Tim Duncan, like Bill Russell, will be weighed down by his rings before age catches up with him. Shaq just got fat and proud of himself, but he could be a force for years to come if he wasn't such an idiot.
I love Dirk -- seriously, I'd happily handle his man-grooming issues if it'd get him a ring.....but when it comes to really, really great big men -- i mean paint clogging, board hammering, post your ass up big men -- there are no comparisons.
A great big man >>>>> anything else
these things aren't even close.
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Ralph Sampson
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05-22-2007, 04:19 PM
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#28
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Moderator
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I must be missing something. Greg Oden is 7 feet tall right?
Isn't Diop 7 feet tall? Isn't Dampier?
I know Oden is better offensively than them especially once his hand heals, but just being BIG doesn't mean you're great.
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06-03-2007, 09:03 PM
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#29
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Member
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Location: Arlington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
I must be missing something. Greg Oden is 7 feet tall right?
Isn't Diop 7 feet tall? Isn't Dampier?
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Um, isn't Dirk?
Look, I don't want to trade for an unproven versus a hall of famer, and I don't want to take a step back. I'm seriously done with taking steps back.
We move forward, tinker a little bit, and go get our trophy next year.
d
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05-22-2007, 04:21 PM
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#30
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Lazy Moderator
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I can't believe the hype around Oden has gotten to the point that people are just assuming he's the next HOF center. Unreal.
Alex, I assure you, there are at least 10 players in this league that if you took the salary restrictions away, the #1 pick would be traded for.
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05-22-2007, 04:24 PM
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#31
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Diamond Member
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Yao is a dominating big man.
Candy Man was as dominating big man in college.
KGarnett was the dominating game changing big man.
David Robinson was the new big man -- that didn't make it till he was paired with Duncan.
Ewing was a dominating big.
Mourning was a dominating big -- that didn't make it till paired with Shaq.
Deke and Bradley dominating bigs.
Just to name a few.
Dirk is a dominating big -- just with a different type game. He is still a 7'.
Oden could be something, or he could be a bust, or anywhere in between.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Gerald Ford
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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05-22-2007, 04:33 PM
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#32
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalmations202
Yao is a dominating big man.
Candy Man was as dominating big man in college.
KGarnett was the dominating game changing big man.
David Robinson was the new big man -- that didn't make it till he was paired with Duncan.
Ewing was a dominating big.
Mourning was a dominating big -- that didn't make it till paired with Shaq.
Deke and Bradley dominating bigs.
.....
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this is precisely what I don't agree with -- not all big men were created equal, and not all are equally regarded. This is akin to saying "alot of people said great things about a variety of small forwards, thus how can we reasonably predict success for Lebron James."
Of that list, Ewing is the only one that garned or deserved the same sort of hype that Oden is getting, and his career wasn't exactly a bust.
And there's a reason why guys like Olawakandi and Bradley went so high -- basketball people know what a team has to have to be great, and they rolled the dice. That some have failed is not necessarily a reason to avoid taking a risk.
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05-22-2007, 04:29 PM
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#33
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Diamond Member
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Location: Basketball fan nirvana
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i'm just saying....you wanna build a multi-ring winning dynasty....
.......you start with a dominant big man.
oden is the best bigman prospect to come around since duncan.
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05-22-2007, 04:48 PM
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#34
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Diamond Member
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I'm not ready to give up on Dirk yet. Giving up your MVP for a POTENTIAL great player is a bad move.
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05-22-2007, 05:06 PM
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#35
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleDipping
I'm not ready to give up on Dirk yet. Giving up your MVP for a POTENTIAL great player is a bad move.
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we're not talking about a potentially great player, we're talking about a potentially great center. According to my complex calculations, 1 potentially great center > 10 potentially great non-center players.
....and I think i'm making more of a basketball philosophical point than suggesting a mavs trade.
...i'm wondering "how much would you pay to land a potential once in a decade center?" or perhaps I'm wondering "how much would I not pay to land a potential once in a decade center."
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"It does not take a brain seargant to know the reason this team struggles." -- dmack24
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05-22-2007, 05:00 PM
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#36
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
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i feel dumber having read this...
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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09-21-2007, 09:11 AM
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#37
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
i feel dumber having read this...
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haha, so do i
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11-18-2010, 04:12 PM
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#38
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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On May 22, 2007 I said on this topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
i feel dumber having read this...
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I feel vindicated in saying this.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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05-22-2007, 05:24 PM
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#39
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Robot Hell, NJ
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Funny, 40% is the number I had in mind.
And to clarify, I'm not saying I'd do this. I've only seen Oden play a handful of games so I'd have to watch tape of every game he's played plus find out more about his mental makeup.
It's certainly not a dumb question as some have suggested. It's something you have to consider (hypothetically since it'll never happen) if you removed the obvious emotional attachment to Dirk.
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Last edited by dirno2000; 05-22-2007 at 05:24 PM.
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05-22-2007, 05:28 PM
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#40
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
It's certainly not a dumb question as some have suggested.
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well, I'll take the MVP over the "next great thing"...which so often in the NBA just doesn't pan out...you don't trade the proven for the unproven...I say this not with Dirklove in mind, but with a desire to succeed in winning a ring in the next four years.
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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