Vail Daily reports that Kobe WILL be charged

[aexchange]

i know another famous athlete that at one point in time could have had any woman he wanted. but he committed such a henious crime that everyone who was associatiated with him said wasnt in his character.

he vehemently denied all charges and promised to get to the bottom of it all. he promised the truth would set him free.

his name was OJ simpson.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: reeds
Come on guys- think about it. KOBE could get damn near any woman he wanted. He has women in ever town he is in hangin all over him, all the time. Do you really think the man has to "take it"? Please, please please. The did meet, they DID have sex, probably wild sex too is my guess. She problably asked for it rough, thought she could make a buck or two, and started crying rape. Of course this is all just my OPINION, I could be dead wrong. I just have this "gut" feeling Kobe is a good guy. I know most on this board do not like the man, but I for one feel his is one of the nicest human beings in the nba....its NOT in his character...all the players that know him are saying the same thing im saying, this is not KOBE...

It is absolutely atypical for the Kobe that has been publicized. We know absoutely nothing about the guy personally though. Noone here can say he didn't do it or even that it wasn't in his character. It could be his character....we just don't know. We also don't know if the victim is making it up though. Just be patient and let all the facts come out before we convict him or slander her.

[veruca salt]

I just hate the argument that he could have any woman he wanted.
Believe it or not, there is some women out there who say no to sports men, and i can
tell you from personal experience, they certainly don't take it very well.
What bigger insult to a mans ego is there??
Also people tend to want things they can't have.

Once again, not saying he didn't, just don't agree with the argument.

[Drbio]

very insightful veruca....good point

[Evilmav2]

i know another famous athlete that at one point in time could have had any woman he wanted. but he committed such a henious crime that everyone who was associatiated with him said wasnt in his character.

he vehemently denied all charges and promised to get to the bottom of it all. he promised the truth would set him free.

his name was OJ simpson.

The truth did set him free. OJ was exonerated by a jury of his peers.

[Drbio]

Being found not guilty is a hell of a lot different than being found innocent. OJ was not innocent. Lest we forget, he was found liable in civil court of causing the deaths of Goldman and Nicole.

[madape]

I'm sick of people portraying Kobe as the victim in this case. The victim is the 19 year girl that he most likely forced to have sex with him. I can't come out and say for sure that this was rape. I haven't heard all the testimony. But here's what I do know: The 19 year old girl Kobe had sex with certainly thinks she was raped. The sheriff that arrested Kobe on June 30th certainly thinks it was rape. The district attorney certainly thinks it was rape. That's good enough to make me at least a little suspicious. But now comes the ugly part. Kobe's publicists and high paid attorneys waited all of 30 seconds to launch a very public smear campain against his accuser. They will attempt over the coming months to so defile her character in the hopes that most people will conceed that she is such a decrepid human being, that her accusations couldn't possibly carry any credibility. Unfortunatley, this tactic works for the feeble minded. Here are some of the foul arguments I've aldready heard from Kobe fans and misogynists around the world:

"She went in the room looking for sex, she deserved what she got"
"Every teenager in Eagle is a whore, so of course this girl is a slut"
"Sluts can't get raped"
"She has done drugs in the past, people who do drugs forfeit their right to say 'no' to sex"
"Who would say no to Kobe? He's a god. It is absolutely implausible that anyone would turn down sex with him. Throw the case out."
"Kobe's never done anything wrong. Trust me, I know. I've seen his commercials on television."

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: aexchange
i know another famous athlete that at one point in time could have had any woman he wanted. but he committed such a henious crime that everyone who was associatiated with him said wasnt in his character.

he vehemently denied all charges and promised to get to the bottom of it all. he promised the truth would set him free.

his name was OJ simpson.

I know of another famous athlete who was known as one of the bad guys. Used drugs, paid for whores and was accused of sexual assualt. It turned out that the woman was lying and trying to make a buck, she ended up in jail for her efforts.

His name was Michael Erving.

I know of another famous athlete who was not a good or bad guy that was also accused of sexual assualt. It turned out to be a scheme to black mail him perpetrated by a couple of scam artist.

His name was Jerome Bettis

AC Green, Pucket, Howard or Webber ring a bell?

When I flip a quarter half the time it comes up head, the other half it comes up tails.
If I flip that same LEGIT coin 1,000 times and 1,000 times it comes up heads, do you know what the odds are that it comes up heads again? It's STILL 50/50, so what's the point of your post axechange?

[WayOutWest]

madape,

Apparently there are feeble minds on both sides of this case. With the little known facts of this case it's just as feeble to take either side of the case. There is enough doubt about credibility on both sides of the case made public so far. There isn't enough info to make a call at this point. Both sides are confident in the outcome, how could you be certain either way. For all we know Kobe bangs 100's of girls a month some without their consent. For all we know the 19 year old in question bangs 100's of guest a month and extorts money from some of them. We don't really know do we? If you think somehow Kobe controls what's going on in the media you're very niave. Could you imagine the windfall that would come to person who breaks the news story about any dirt on Kobe? Everyone is looking for that next BIG scoop, they don't care who's side benefits or loses from it. Kobe's camp may or may not be paying for their snoops, but you can bet there will just as big if not a bigger payday for anyone who breaks some Kobe dirt durring this case.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything that turns out about Kobe, after all we didn't know what scum Jordan and Dr. J were until their media spin machinge had lost some steam.

[OutletPass]

Since none of us were in the room with them at the time that all this occurred...can't we just wait for the evidence to be presented in court.

I'm very much with WOW on this...

Crazy opinions from BOTH sides of this case are just wearing me out.

No one here has an "inside and informed" view of what really happened.

WOW is QUITE RIGHT.

[signoftimes]

I didn't want to start a new thread about this, so I'll ask here. The picture of Kobe's accuser is now all over the internet. Is it legal for these sites to use her image without her knowledge?

I think ethically, we can pretty much agree that these sites shouldn't be doing it, but is it legal?

[LakerMania]

Originally posted by: madape
"She went in the room looking for sex, she deserved what she got"
"Every teenager in Eagle is a whore, so of course this girl is a slut"
"Sluts can't get raped"
"She has done drugs in the past, people who do drugs forfeit their right to say 'no' to sex"
"Who would say no to Kobe? He's a god. It is absolutely implausible that anyone would turn down sex with him. Throw the case out."
"Kobe's never done anything wrong. Trust me, I know. I've seen his commercials on television."

You forgot that, "She's mentally unstable because she tried to kill herself"


.....just trying to help. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[WayOutWest]

I heard most of those sites were taken down.

Not only are her pictures being displayed but her name, address, phone number and email address was posted. Any site that had that info was taken down. The one's that only have her picture are mostly down because of too much traffic. There is nothing you can really do if somebody get's a picture of you and makes it public.

In a related note:

hmmmmmmmm.....JUICEY!

Newsweek is reporting that the 19 year old accuser in the Bryant case is well known to the Nuggest players. A few players, is that 2 or 12, stated that she's a b-ball groopie. I'd heard that rumor before but I couldn't find it anywhere, I'm having a hard time getting on the Newsweek site. Is the NBA boys club sticking up for one of it's own or is there something behind this?

Wonder when some mud slinging will head Kobe's way? Kobe's ex-girlfriend who got dissed in favor of Brandy for the prom might be a good source of dirt.

[sturm und drang]

[qhmmmmmmmm.....JUICEY!

Newsweek is reporting that the 19 year old accuser in the Bryant case is well known to the Nuggest players. A few players, is that 2 or 12, stated that she's a b-ball groopie. I'd heard that rumor before but I couldn't find it anywhere, I'm having a hard time getting on the Newsweek site. Is the NBA boys club sticking up for one of it's own or is there something behind this?

Wonder when some mud slinging will head Kobe's way? Kobe's ex-girlfriend who got dissed in favor of Brandy for the prom might be a good source of dirt.[/quote]

In Colorado, the alleged victim's previous sexual history and proclivities are not admissable. So frankly, it just doesn't matter-- in court. In the court of public opinion, however, she's going to be smeared by Kobe's high-powered legal team. That's part of the reason I find it unlikely-- though certainly not impossible-- that a woman would fabricate such a charge. When you make a claim like the one she's making against Kobe, you know your entire mental and sexual history are going to be under the proverbial magnifying glass. And some (much?) of it will be untrue. I just have a hard time believing that most women would voluntarily elect to be subjected to such treatment for the whole world to watch... and make judgment.

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: sturm und drang
[qhmmmmmmmm.....JUICEY!

Newsweek is reporting that the 19 year old accuser in the Bryant case is well known to the Nuggest players. A few players, is that 2 or 12, stated that she's a b-ball groopie. I'd heard that rumor before but I couldn't find it anywhere, I'm having a hard time getting on the Newsweek site. Is the NBA boys club sticking up for one of it's own or is there something behind this?

Wonder when some mud slinging will head Kobe's way? Kobe's ex-girlfriend who got dissed in favor of Brandy for the prom might be a good source of dirt.

In Colorado, the alleged victim's previous sexual history and proclivities are not admissable. So frankly, it just doesn't matter-- in court. In the court of public opinion, however, she's going to be smeared by Kobe's high-powered legal team. That's part of the reason I find it unlikely-- though certainly not impossible-- that a woman would fabricate such a charge. When you make a claim like the one she's making against Kobe, you know your entire mental and sexual history are going to be under the proverbial magnifying glass. And some (much?) of it will be untrue. I just have a hard time believing that most women would voluntarily elect to be subjected to such treatment for the whole world to watch... and make judgment.[/quote]


I agree, that's the biggest doubt in my mind. Of course emotions could cloud everything. What bothers me is the Sheriff and DA know, unless they are total numbskulls, what would be in store for them. The past would be drug up so I would think they did quite a bit of DD to determine if her credibility would hold up.

In a Dallas realted TWIST:

Sports 1150/690 in L.A. reported a few tidbits. I believe most of it came from the Newsweek interviews that were part of the article. Apparently NVE was mentioned by name as being one of the Nuggests players who talked about this woman being an NBA groopie and some of her other exploits. It was also reported that Kobe and this woman may have had some type of relationship over a period of months, that would explain alot in regards to the timeframe of the alleged assault.

So while rape-gate may not see the inside of the court room, you can bet that apporximately half of Kobe's money and property will.

[Chiwas]

The playbook on crisis management

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Ray Ratto
Special to ESPN.com


What, more Kobe Bryant?

Yes, more Kobe Bryant. As opposed to, say, new Kobe Bryant.

But until we hear the accuser's side, the story of the woman whom Bryant allegedly assaulted, this is the grinding awfulness of this story. A dulling, pounding sameness that numbs the senses and turns debate into parrot arguments.

That Kobe Bryant mixed contrition with his denial of guilt during Friday's press conference isn't anything we haven't seen time and again from athletes and celebrities in crisis.
We knew it would be thus when his tearful press conference with his wife began with the preemptive declaration, "We won't be taking questions." A charge became rote Clintonesque story-telling, I-never-did-anything morphed into well-I-never-did-that.

And of course everyone recognized it for what it was -- raw, naked spin, and graded it accordingly.

Now come the "mysterious" leaks aimed at painting the girl as patently unhinged -- the tales of the failed "American Idol" contestant, apparently distraught over the death of a friend, a teenager desperate for notice, and blah-de-blah-de-blah.

In other words, everything is working right on cynical schedule -- down to the list of recent arrested athletes and other miscellaneous celebrities for a quick round of compare-and-contrast.

And then we are left to parse for ourselves where this sits on the athletes-in-the-dock-o-meter.

We just saw the hearts-and-minds round, in which the first spins are aimed at the media, and then through the media at the jury pool and potential long-term apparel customers. And the horrible part of it all is this -- a Court TV reporter based in Denver speculated that with motions and the arguments on those motions, the trial would (A.) certainly happen, and (B.) wouldn't begin for as many as nine months.

We've gone through the "What could he have been thinking?" discussion, in which we re-discover that our cranky admonitions about never doing anything you'll be ashamed to later admit are blithely ignored, and on a daily basis.

We've also done the "This is why athletes can never be role models, because we don't know these people" bleat, knowing full well that we are always on the hunt for the next athletic role model. Kobe Bryant, meet LeBron James.

We've even done the "Well, you know, athletes are targets" sturm-und-drang [[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]], as though their only transgression is wearing the "Kick Me" sign in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And now, with the passage of a few days, it has become acceptable to start asking questions about how this will affect the Los Angeles Lakers.

It's all so painfully scripted, with everyone playing their roles as pre-assigned.

And it's all so painfully scripted because it happens so often, in sports, in show business, in politics. Someone gets accused of something, and the cards get played in order.

Denial.

Contrition, of a fashion, with a fresh denial chaser.

Stories of the accuser's uncertain past, and unrelated tales of young women as diabolical predators.

The Big Picture -- what does all this mean to (fill in the blank)?

And that's what annoys us so about Kobe Bryant, at least unless and until we learn what he might have done above and beyond extracurricular dating.

By acting the typical bulletproof multi-millionaire celebrity, he walked us through ground so plowed over that it feels like walking in dry sand. He triggered the ritualistic danse macabre that induces the legal system and the media to embarrass themselves in tandem. He unleashed forces which know only how they have behaved in similar cases, and in any event serve only to obfuscate and ultimately mangle the only truth worth knowing here.

Did he do to the woman what he is accused of?

Nothing more, nothing less: Did he do it?

But that leaves hundreds of billable hours, 23 hours, 59 minutes and 57 seconds of prime air time, and 30,000 paragraphs still unaccounted for every day between now and the start of the trial, if it ever comes to that.

So here, then, is what you need to know about Kobe Bryant between now and then.

He should have known better.

He chose not to.

He risked way too much for way too little.

He may be a criminal.

Everything else is the same walk along the same worn sidewalk that we've taken dozens of times before. We are all creatures of habit, and once we've seized on a formula that seems to work, we make sure our tire tracks follow the tracks left from the last one.

And nobody ever learns anything from history, because history is just tomorrow taking off its warm-ups.

Ray Ratto is a columnist with the San Francisco Chronicle and a regular contributor to ESPN.com

[reeds]

VERUCA SALT- what i meant by my comment "he could have practically any woman he wanted " is this..I realize there are many women out there that could care less that he is a pro basketball player. What I am saying is this..when he goes out, the groupies swarm- and I mean swarm. Those type of women will do almost ANYTHING to hook up with a KOBE,MICHAEL,DIRK, whoever...This is not just my opinion- i have seen it, and I am sure many of this board have seen it... with that being said- really, he could go out any night of the week and have a woman- why is he taking it??answer- he is NOT...of course this is just my opinion...

[Drbio]

reeds first point about Kobe being able to score a woman any night of the week is a fact. His second about taking it is just an opinion. He is certainly capable of "taking it" as an aggressive athlete and large man, but his publicized personality clearly suggests he wouldn't do it.

Let the facts play out and brace for the unfortunate Kobe legal group mud slinging soon to appear in a news outlet near you.

[WayOutWest]

More tidbits from sports radio.

LA DA's and lawyers say the incident about her drug overdose will be admissable, as would the testimony of current and former Denver Nugget players.

Newsweek is reporting that the girl suffered a neck injury and bruising near her "private" areas.

[MavKikiNYC]

He is certainly capable of "taking it" as an aggressive athlete and large man, but his publicized personality clearly suggests he wouldn't do it.

I think his carefully presented, carefully managed public personality suggests he wouldn't do it.

But his relationship with his teammates and coach, and his attitude about asserting himself on the court, playing HIS game, making HIS plays, scoring HIS points, which, by the way, I believe accounts for a large part of his oncourt success and achievements, even more strongly and tellingly suggests someone used to getting his way, used to getting what he wants, and getting all types of positive reinforcement for it.

Just because he doesn't have to 'take it', as has been posed in another thread, doesn't mean he wouldn't impose himself aggressively and violently in an extramarital sexual encounter. Despite his (legal-and-societally-recognized) wife's assertions that he is a loving and gentle husband and father, the nature of the exchange in quesiton was neither spousal nor paternal, and I doubt very strongly that there were any 'tender' emotions involved. Who knows what kind of tensions, frustrations and aggressions he was working out here? But it's not very difficult to think that Kobe-the-adulterer could have a different mindset from Kobe-the-loving-father/husband-and-smiling-Sprite-salesman.

(Editorial note: these are just MY speculations; they are NOT based on any firsthand observations or direct knowledge of the facts of the case. As such they should not be used to form an opinion as to Mr. Bryant's guilt or innocence in a legal context. They are offered in their current form, however, for either assenting or dissenting response as to whether it appears more and more that Bryant is less of an all-around good guy and more of a $teaming $ack of $hit.)

[WayOutWest]

NYC: LOL! Great post and great legal disclaimer!

More and more info is leaking out and being reported by Newsweek. Why is newsweek beating everyone to the punch? Or are they just pulling a NY Post and reporting everything they hear in a chat room. Alot of LA sports radio reports site Newsweek/AP as the source.

Anyway, what I heard on the way into work:
The victims past history will be admissable according to other "legal experts", some of them are DA's. So apparently the drug overdose and testimony from current and former Nuggest players should be admissable.
The victim was not supposed to be working that night. Nobody is sure why she was at the hotel in the first place.
The victim and Kobe may have had a previous relationship going back at least two months.
The victims family has requested that her friends, pro or con, stop talking to the media.
They reiterated the bruising near her "private" areas and the report of a neck injury.
Kobe's wife did not sign a pre-nup, which opened up a whole nother can of worms in regards to Kobe's strained relationship with his family.