2020 NBA Draft

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

not directly on topic but as i'm typing this the 76ers are going down in flames and about to be swept. How's that process looking now? understandably they're missing simmons but i'm not sure that he swings them to more than making it a bit more competitive. maybe they take a game or two rather than get swept.

it's interesting because aside from the draft tanking they've done this is a team that has swung deals for big name players through FA and trades. Jimmy Butler, Tobias Harris, Al Horford... and have apparently struck out. For all their big name drafting and trading and signing they've failed to construct a good team. Celtics have Hayward go down and are still rolling over them.

Whiffing on Fultz hurt the process when Tatum was available. Step 1 is getting a new coach. Time for a new voice in the locker room. Just shows you can’t just pickup big names and hope it works.

[EricaLubarsky]

38-16-13-2-1

[LukaThaDonPart2]

2020 draft:
1st round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round (trade for it if we need to): Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
Undrafted players: Look for a Wing who can shoot

2021 draft: see 2020 draft

Do it until we hit on one. We could be looking at a dynasty.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LukaThaDonPart2

2020 draft:
1st round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round (trade for it if we need to): Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
Undrafted players: Look for a Wing who can shoot

2021 draft: see 2020 draft

Do it until we hit on one. We could be looking at a dynasty.

I mean, we don't have a 2021, 2023, or 2025 pick and we only have one second rounder, but I see your point. Wing is the most important.

There will definitely be a good wing at 18. I'm not sure I'd keep drafting wings at 31, though. You can only develop so many guys at a time and I think we also need a good combo forward to throw at Giannis/Montrezl-types.

[MFFL]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I mean, we don't have a 2021, 2023, or 2025 pick and we only have one second rounder

I don't see any commitments against our 2025 draft

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by MFFL

I don't see any commitments against our 2025 draft

Yeah we have our 2025 right now. First article I pulled up said up to 2025, but that's only worst-case.

Pick 1 - 2021 is completely unprotected

Pick 2 - 2023 is top-10 protected. If they don't get 2023, then they get 2024 1-10 protected. If they don't get 2024 (1-10 protected), then they get 2025 (top 10 protected). If they dont get a first-rounder by 2025, then it just becomes a second-rounder.

With how we are going, next year's pick will be late first (18-30) and we'll hand over another 20-30 pick in 2023 and be done with it. That trade looked a lot better for the Knicks when we weren't a playoff team and had a chance at high picks.

What it does mean is that until 2023, the earliest of our first rounders we can trade away right now is 2026 . Best we can do until then is trade a player immediately after drafting him in 2020 or 2022 since then it's player rights and not a pick that we're trading.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by LukaThaDonPart2

2020 draft:
1st round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round: Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
2nd round (trade for it if we need to): Draft a wing who can defend and shoot
Undrafted players: Look for a Wing who can shoot

2021 draft: see 2020 draft

Do it until we hit on one. We could be looking at a dynasty.

I respectfully disagree. Always take BPA. We still need talent. Better athletes at any position would help this team immensely.

[LukaThaDonPart2]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I respectfully disagree. Always take BPA. We still need talent. Better athletes at any position would help this team immensely.

Even if BPA is a point guard?

Yes I know there's ways to make that work but Luka is going to dominate the ball. I would rather try to get somebody who can help us off the ball and on defense.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by LukaThaDonPart2

Even if BPA is a point guard?

Yes I know there's ways to make that work but Luka is going to dominate the ball. I would rather try to get somebody who can help us off the ball and on defense.

Yes even if it’s a Point Guard. What if Kira Lewis is the next Kemba and we take the next Justin Anderson instead? If we had gotten Kemba we’d be legit finals threats now.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Yes even if it’s a Point Guard. What if Kira Lewis is the next Kemba and we take the next Justin Anderson instead? If we had gotten Kemba we’d be legit finals threats now.

Yep. Never draft for need. One when BPA and need coexist. Do not REACH for a guy. For the sake of this fan base please don't. We need this guy to pan out because I'm not suer how we are going to supply Luka with talent outside of the draft.

[mac222b]

Was curious so I looked and Middleton went 39 and Will Barton 40 that year too.

[mac222b]

We trade down from Giannis twice in part because we “needed” a point guard and wound up with Shane Larkin instead. We also passed on other much better players like Gobert(maybe because we thought we were getting Dwight Howard?)

[LukaThaDonPart2]

Originally Posted by mac222b

We trade down from Giannis twice in part because we “needed” a point guard and wound up with Shane Larkin instead. We also passed on other much better players like Gobert(maybe because we thought we were getting Dwight Howard?)

No disagreement that the office has made some god awful terrible draft moves and basically punted away the last decade after the championship to chase stars. But I'd like to think hopefully it's in the past. I don't even know how much they really cared about who they drafted then, their goal was to chase stars not draft some guy named Giannis. (their logic at the time) So it was flawed from the outset.

But you're trying to compare when we had no stars other than Dirk past his prime to now we have two. It's not the same situation at all. Unless they're clueless they have to see what's happening on the floor we need defensive help. You draft some point guard who can score but can't play defense how will that really help us?

I was somewhat being sarcastic about every draft pick being a SF but I'm not drafting a point guard unless he can play off the ball and defend. I don't think we're going to be in many situations to get great players anyway we're either going to be too good or have to give up our 1st rounders to the Knicks in the coming years.

[mac222b]

The other thing about BPA is sometimes you trade for another star. You draft Sabonis he’s part of the package that gets Paul George.

[LukaThaDonPart2]

Originally Posted by mac222b

The other thing about BPA is sometimes you trade for another star. You draft Sabonis he’s part of the package that gets Paul George.

So you're going to draft an ill fitting player in hopes to trade for some great player? There's never a guarantee that BPA will turn out to be a star. Best player available is an evaluation not a factual thing anyone can be great or a bust and usually late first rounders that we will be stuck with aren't going to be stars. If it could be proven, Luka would have been a #1 pick, Giannis #1 etc.. but they weren't. I do grant you that Donnie wanted Giannis and Cuban said no and that was stupid, but it is in the past there's nothing we can do about it now. And it's not like we would have Giannis and still got Luka. We would have been to good to draft Luka in all likelyhood and we wouldn't have gotten KP either so let the past be the past.

I say just try to build the best team you can around Luka and that has to involve defensive minded players otherwise we'll always be a historical great offensive team who gets torched when it matters. We might be drafting in the 20s you can't predict that you will draft someone so good we could trade them for someone else better that is insane. We wont even have first round picks for 2 seperate years coming up. So I say good luck trying to draft the next star in the late teens, 20s or 2nd round if you can do that you should take Donnie's job. Unless Luka suffers a David Robinson type injury we're not going to be drafting in the lottery for a LONG time. Probably not until the 2030s.

[MFFL]

The Thunder have THREE point guards and they play them all - A LOT!

BPA means you have alternatives when injuries happen, BPA means you have trade capital for the next big deal, and BPA means you have improved the overall TALENT of the team

Always take the BPA. Only if the rankings are basically the same do you select for need

[DIRK LEGIONS]

Originally Posted by MFFL

The Thunder have THREE point guards and they play them all - A LOT!

BPA means you have alternatives when injuries happen, BPA means you have trade capital for the next big deal, and BPA means you have improved the overall TALENT of the team

Always take the BPA. Only if the rankings are basically the same do you select for need

This^^^^^^

Plus now with KP being a load management type player you need to get 2 more legit stars here either via trade or draft.

[tap2390]

The more film I watch, the more I'm convinced that Precious Achuiwa is the perfect guy for us. Guy is built like a 4, but defends like a wing and rebounds like a center. His game reminds me a lot of Josh Smith. Start him next to Porzingis and watch Luka feed him easy transition buckets.

[sefant77]

1) i dont think the Mavs have a shot trading a few spots up using #31 or Brunson. The teams few spots ahead of us allready have multiple picks or a glaring need for one of the SG and wings that are slotted around the late lottery

2) i checked the most important mocks and i never saw one of the following player mocked worse than #16:

Edwards
Wiseman
Ball
Hayes
Avdija
Okongwu
Okoro
Toppin
Vassell
Haliburton
Nesmith
Achiuwa
Williams
Hampton
Green

I think thats the 15 player you can say goodbye to allready. And then your list is allready down to Poku, Bey, Maxey or Jalen Smiith with two teams still picking ahead of you.

I think the best case scenario is walking away with Poku or Bey. But looks like we still need a lot of luck for this. I really like the Athletic mocks and he has both even in the lottery.

I think we need also luck that some teams reach for player we dont have really a need for: undersized scoring guards like Cole, Kira etc...

[tap2390]

I’m starting to really like Kira Lewis for us. His game reminds me a lot of Ja Morant. Obviously long-term his development will depend on his jumpshot, but at 18 he is definitely worth the risk given his speed, frame, and shooting #s. Ultimately I think he goes top 10.

[Scoobay]

there's 2 Bey's... I think Saddiq goes top 15 but looks like Tyler Bey is likely to be available based on Mocks. T Bey appears to be super athletic - not sure about the outside shot, but seems to be high motor on both offense and defense.

then there's this lol - "Can Tyler Bey be the next Kawhi Leonard? - 2020 NBA Draft Prospect - Defensive Breakdown"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfsTOxQJD50

[sefant77]

Yeah i meant Saddiq because he is the higher ranked one

[tap2390]

I like Tyler Bey a lot. We have to give legit consideration to both him and Paul Reed at 18 (I'll also be praying that they fall to 31).

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I like Tyler Bey a lot. We have to give legit consideration to both him and Paul Reed at 18 (I'll also be praying that they fall to 31).

Tyler's biggest downside is he's got a questionable jumper - seems to do everything else well. athletic, good defender, moves well without the ball, etc.

Would he be in mix say instead of someone like Powell? maybe he could set picks and rim run etc. I think we can deal with one player next to Luka who doesn't shoot well and in the mean time have him work on the shooting.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by Scoobay

Tyler's biggest downside is he's got a questionable jumper - seems to do everything else well. athletic, good defender, moves well without the ball, etc.

Would he be in mix say instead of someone like Powell? maybe he could set picks and rim run etc. I think we can deal with one player next to Luka who doesn't shoot well and in the mean time have him work on the shooting.

Completely agree, but this is primarily the reason I'm hoping that Precious Achiuwa falls to 18 or we move up to get him. He has a very rare skillset in that he can rim run like a center but guard like a wing. He would bring the best of Kleber and Powell in one package. If we miss out and have to settle for Bey or Reed then we are sacrificing offense for defense.

[tap2390]

Some interesting stats for the 4/5 hybrid prospects.

Tyler Bey
22.5 y/o
-allowed 0.82 points per post up possession [52nd percentile]
-allowed 0.48 points per isolation possession [85th percentile]
-18.4% total rebound %
-3.1% steal rate
-4.2% block rate
-8.31 SOS

Paul Reed
21.25 y/o
-allowed 0.78 points per post up possession [59th percentile]
-allowed 0.55 points per isolation possession [78th percentile]
-18.4% total rebound %
-3.3% steal rate
-9.7% block rate
-8.95 SOS

Precious Achiuwa
21 y/o
-allowed just 0.61 points per one-on-one possession [76th percentile]
-18.6% total rebound %
-2.0% steal rate
-6.4% block rate
-5.07 SOS


As you can see, very similar players. Achiuwa will go first because of his physical upside. I ultimately see him being the best offensive player of the three.

After, it's a toss-up between Bey and Reed. Reed is a better interior defender. Bey is a better perimeter defender. I would love to come away from the draft with both: Bey at 18 and Reed at 31.

[EricaLubarsky]

Mavs can deal with one guy who can't shoot next to Luka.

Problem is that Mavs really only have one guy who can shoot next to Luka.

We simply cannot afford to draft a guy who can't shoot. Not having shooters next to Luka is like buying a sports car and not having gas for the tank.

Playoff 3pt% of guys with more than 2 attempts a game
KP - 52.9% (only played 3 of 6 games)
Curry - 47.6%
Burke 47.1%
DFS - 36.7%
Doncic - 36.4%
THJ - 35.2%
Kleber - 19.2%

Edit; That actually looks better than I thought to be honest. Had KP been healthy, we may have actually had the spacing to run our offense.

[sefant77]

Tyler Bey is pretty much 23y old when the next season starts..uff

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Tyler Bey is pretty much 23y old when the next season starts..uff

I mean, the pot and attitude sucked, but Josh Howard was drafted at 23 and he was stellar for us for a few seasons. Daniels was 22.

Some older players can really hit the ground running and honestly, that's what we need over a 19-year-old who is a 4-year prospect.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We simply cannot afford to draft a guy who can't shoot. Not having shooters next to Luka is like buying a sports car and not having gas for the tank.

Mavs were second to last in steals, bottom three in deflections, average recovering loose balls, bottom four in transition attempts, bottom two in cuts to the basket (not counting pick-and-roll situations), and average in putback attempts.

IMO We're not missing shooting. Everyones' perimeter defense steps up in the playoffs. Every team has players that go cold. What we're missing is easy buckets and hustle.

Originally Posted by sefant77

Tyler Bey is pretty much 23y old when the next season starts..uff

Yeah that's a tough pill to swallow at first glance, but he may fit in better with our timeline than a younger guy like Josh Green. Picking up Bey at 31 would be ideal, but who knows if he gets there.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Mavs were second to last in steals, bottom three in deflections, average recovering loose balls, bottom four in transition attempts, bottom two in cuts to the basket (not counting pick-and-roll situations), and average in putback attempts.

IMO We're not missing shooting. Everyones' perimeter defense steps up in the playoffs. Every team has players that go cold. What we're missing is easy buckets and hustle.





Yeah that's a tough pill to swallow at first glance, but he may fit in better with our timeline than a younger guy like Josh Green. Picking up Bey at 31 would be ideal, but who knows if he gets there.

If he's smart enough and athletic enough to know how/when to cut to the basket there should be good looks for him with the attention that Luka draws. We can have one non-shooter out there possibly and still have good spacing and room to operate. The times our guys do cut usually Luka finds them for easy baskets. Long term would be fabulous if he could at least have a respectable 3pointer but if he can provide stellar defense and some energy on offense with athleticism, i could live with that.

aside from the overly hopeful "next Kawhi" comparison i've also read poor man's shawn marion. That'd be helpful as well

[saclare]

I'm on the BPA bandwagon, but would love to address shooting, rebounding, and physical presence in this draft. Don't think Precious gets to us, but he'd be great at 18. The 2nd rounder offers some upside. Don't sleep on Isaiah Joe from Arkansas. Can flat out shoot and I think he would THRIVE as an off-ball shooter next to creators. Passable defender with upside given size, but the shooting is what you're after there. 31 is likely too rich, though.

I had a conversation recently regarding later picks and upside vs. college production. Think teams get too cute in the latter half of the 1st round and 2nd round. Too many times is upside overvalued where you can plug holes in your roster or at least grab a high floor contributor. Hindsight is 20/20 but I remember several draft nights seeing a really productive player fall and get passed.

[rimrocker]

Originally Posted by saclare

Hindsight is 20/20 but I remember several draft nights seeing a really productive player fall and get passed.

I think that guy will be Poku. Someone will eventually regret not taking him and I hope it isn’t us.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I think that guy will be Poku. Someone will eventually regret not taking him and I hope it isn’t us.

His shooting form is beautiful. I believe he'll be one of the best shooters in the league at some point way down the road. He has too many limitations related to his strength to intrigue me as anything more than a priority free agent post draft.

IMO Amar Sylla is the much better international big prospect, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some team take a flier on him late first round.

[mac222b]

I thought I read Sylla decided not to enter the draft

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I thought I read Sylla decided not to enter the draft

he isnt (bummer) and he is kind of mocked as lottery pick next season.

But i also thought no way he gets past the Raptors or both late Celtics draft picks...

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by sefant77

he isnt (bummer) and he is kind of mocked as lottery pick next season.

But i also thought no way he gets past the Raptors or both late Celtics draft picks...

Ahh bummer. Was excited to see him in an NBA system.

[tap2390]

IMO LaMelo Ball is one of the most overrated prospects ever. I just don’t see it with him. His first step isn’t great, his defense isn’t great, his shooting isn’t great and his mechanics are bad. At best he is a Shaun Livingston type, at worst he’s Lonzo Ball with poorer defense.

On the flipside, Isaiah Stewart is very underrated. The guy is one of the youngest players in this draft, but will be NBA ready day one. He plays with an uncanny relentlessness and hustle. He has soft hands and solid post moves. His jumper looks good and he’s a high level free throw shooter. He sets hard picks, hits the glass, and has the tools to defend on the perimeter. Overall he sets the tone with his energy. He is exactly the type of player we are missing.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by tap2390

IMO LaMelo Ball is one of the most overrated prospects ever. I just don’t see it with him. His first step isn’t great, his defense isn’t great, his shooting isn’t great and his mechanics are bad. At best he is a Shaun Livingston type, at worst he’s Lonzo Ball with poorer defense.

On the flipside, Isaiah Stewart is very underrated. The guy is one of the youngest players in this draft, but will be NBA ready day one. He plays with an uncanny relentlessness and hustle. He has soft hands and solid post moves. His jumper looks good and he’s a high level free throw shooter. He sets hard picks, hits the glass, and has the tools to defend on the perimeter. Overall he sets the tone with his energy. He is exactly the type of player we are missing.

yes seems like another throwback bruiser/energy type of athlete
not sure about his ability to hit from outside - definitely would be a work in progress on that end.
he's slotted at #29 on tankathon

I think Paul Reed seems more intriguing at #31 though
Hoping for best 3/d Wing prospect at #18 and then Reed at #31

[EricaLubarsky]

This AZ boy may be a good pickup in the second round if Powell really is good and done. I wouldnt pull the trigger at 18, but at 31 I'd take him if he was there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85VLpmZM1Ww

I saw him a couple times with UofA and he looked solid. I imagine he'd average 16ppg with Doncic throwing him passes.

Like Powell, he's gotta work on that jumper, but he has a great physical toolset to defend, rebound, and enforce his will.