Official GDT - Cowboys vs Steelers!

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

No, silk, you're the one that needs to think about what I just said. If it wasn't for the "tuck rule", Brady would have ended his first season on a horrible turnover. Just like Romo.

In his second season, Brady missed the playoffs because he played awful in the second half of the season.

So after two seasons, what would Brady be according to silk-logic? Not a big game quarterback, that's for sure.

But in hind-sight, it would be silly to call Brady that, now wouldn't it?

This is what I'm talking about with small sample sizes.

That is just dumb and silly to even make that arguement like Romo has done something to assume otherwise...That is just silly. You comparing the past of Brady to the current Romo. How could you just assume that Romo is going to win 2 or 3 SuperBowls?

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

That is just dumb and silly to even make that arguement like Romo has done something to assume otherwise...That is just silly. You comparing the past of Brady to the current Romo. How could you just assume that Romo is going to win 2 or 3 SuperBowls?

If it wasn't for the tuck rule, what else did Brady do in his first two season?

I want "facts" only.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If it wasn't for the tuck rule, what else did Brady do in his first two season?

I want "facts" only.

LMAO....I guess that is the best you can do. I understand...I could not find any facts to support Romo either. LMAO...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

That is just dumb and silly to even make that arguement like Romo has done something to assume otherwise...That is just silly. You comparing the past of Brady to the current Romo. How could you just assume that Romo is going to win 2 or 3 SuperBowls?

Did Tom Brady win 2 or 3 Super Bowls?

Because I could have sworn that it was Adam Vinatieri who won those games...

[dirno2000]

It's extremly shot sighted to say that a quarterback that has only started for one full season can't get it done. I realize you're upset but your emotions are clouding your judgement.

You could have (and probably would have) made the same arguement about Eli Manning at this time last year or Payton Manning 3 years ago. That was the knock on Steve Young before he won the Super Bowl. The fact is, no quarterback can get it done until he gets it done. When you're lucky enough to get a player like Romo you ride with him and you hope for the best because Troy Aikman ain't walking through that door.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

When you're lucky enough to get a player like Romo you ride with him and you hope for the best because Troy Aikman ain't walking through that door.

Ain't that the truth - we could still have this guy under center:

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

LMAO....I guess that is the best you can do. I understand...I could not find any facts to support Romo either. LMAO...

So you should be willing to take my proposal of a self-imposed banning if Romo ever wins the big one, correct?

I mean, you clearly won the argument, and there are no facts in existence that show Romo could possibly win a Super Bowl, right?

Sounds like an easy bet to make then. You get to show you have cojones, and yet you make a bet that your research shows you have a 100% chance of winning. Win-win situation right there.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

It's extremly shot sighted to say that a quarterback that has only started for one full season can't get it done. I realize you're upset but your emotions are clouding your judgement.

You could have (and probably would have) made the same arguement about Eli Manning at this time last year or Payton Manning 3 years ago. That was the knock on Steve Young before he won the Super Bowl. The fact is, no quarterback can get it done until he gets it done. When you're lucky enough to get a player like Romo you ride with him and you hope for the best because Troy Aikman ain't walking through that door.

Yes, I would have made that arguement against Eli last year, based on the facts. I would have made that arguement against Payton 3years ago as well based on the facts. Every paid opinion said the same exact thing..The sad part is we all live in the present, so that is all I have to go by...Sorry if I cant just assume Romo is Payton or Brady based on the fact that Romo has not won a playoff game yet, due to the fact that he has had the "Team to Beat" both years in the NFC. I am sorry, but I just cant do that.

Yes, I am upset about the loss, but do I have reason for concern? Yes! Do we all see a pattern here with Romo? Yes! Is it good or bad? BAD! Do we all hope for the best for OUR Cowboys? YES!!!! But the "FACTS" remain, and that is all we can talk about. But, you are right, there is no Aikman walking in the Cowboys locker room.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

So you should be willing to take my proposal of a self-imposed banning if Romo ever wins the big one, correct?

I mean, you clearly won the argument, and there are no facts in existence that show Romo could possibly win a Super Bowl, right?

Sounds like an easy bet to make then. You get to show you have cojones, and yet you make a bet that your research shows you have a 100% chance of winning. Win-win situation right there.

No, thank you ....I will just accept the fact that I won the arguement based on facts...Anything else is personal, and if you want to make it personal than I can help you out on that and meet you where ever you like? Right here on this tread we are talking Cowboys...Just let me know.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Ain't that the truth - we could still have this guy under center:

So, the arguement for you has moved to an arguement about Bledsoe, Romo or Johnson? Just wondering because that is not what we are talking about.

UD,
Do your homework on Delhomne? Even Rivers has a win or two in the playoffs...But, Jake has been to the SuperBowl, and at one time was the overall Highest Rated QB ever in the playoffs. Not because of small sample size, but based off a min number that they use to compare QB ratings for considerations for this record.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

But, you are right, there is no Aikman walking in the Cowboys locker room.

Nope - just a guy who broke every individual record last season that Staubach or Aikman previously held...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Do your homework on Delhomne? Even Rivers has a win or two in the playoffs...But, Jake has been to the SuperBowl, and at one time was the overall Highest Rated QB ever in the playoffs. Not because of small sample size, but based off a min number that they use to compare QB ratings for considerations for this record.

Brad Johnson has a Super Bowl ring, but how is that relevant in 2008-2009?

(neither Delhomme or Rivers will be whiffing the playoffs this season...)

[FINtastic]

I guess Trent Dilfer>Tony Romo now too.

Just the facts.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Nope - just a guy who broke every individual record last season that Staubach or Aikman previously held...

Lets just crown Romo now as the "Greatest Cowboy QB" ever?
Lets see who would agree there? Would you agree?

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yes, I would have made that arguement against Eli last year, based on the facts. I would have made that arguement against Payton 3years ago as well based on the facts. Every paid opinion said the same exact thing..The sad part is we all live in the present, so that is all I have to go by...Sorry if I cant just assume Romo is Payton or Brady based on the fact that Romo has not won a playoff game yet, due to the fact that he has had the "Team to Beat" both years in the NFC. I am sorry, but I just cant do that.

If the facts tell you that Eli and Peyton aren't winners and they go out and win a Super Bowl (thus proving that they are capable of winning), don't you have to start questioning what exactly your facts are telling you?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Lets just crown Romo now as the "Greatest Cowboy QB" ever?
Lets see who would agree there? Would you agree?

I never said he was the "greatest Cowboy ever" - I think it's obvious that you don't kick a guy to the curb when he's putting up better numbers than the two best quarterbacks this franchise has ever had...

You change your argument with every post - Tony Romo is a top-5 QB in the NFL by every standard and you won't find a single PAID OPINION in this country that says otherwise...

Just because you're pissed off, doesn't mean you're right...

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If the facts tell you that Eli and Peyton aren't winners and they go out and win a Super Bowl (thus proving that they are capable of winning), don't you have to start questioning what exactly your facts are telling you?

I know you are smarter than that. Are you saying that since Eli and Peyton won later on, then that means when they were losing, then they indeed were "Winners" back then? I dont know what else to tell you, but you are reaching at best. Dont assume Romo is headed for greatness based on others have played as horrible in the past. Lets just call a "Spade" a "Spade"? Is that not fair? If you are clearly a loser in Dec, Jan and playoffs, then you are a "Loser" during that time. Thats fair!!!! If you start to win, and it becomes the norm, then we will call you a "Winner". Right now, Romo is a "Big Choker". Same label that Peyton had, up "UNTIL" he started "WINNING". Breaking more regular season records did not get that label off of him? Did it? HELL NO!!!! He won when it counted and the label was "REMOVED"..PERIOD... But keep reaching..

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I never said he was the "greatest Cowboy ever" - I think it's obvious that you don't kick a guy to the curb when he's putting up better numbers than the two best quarterbacks this franchise ever had...

You change your argument with every post - Tony Romo is a top-5 QB in the NFL by every standard and you won't find a single PAID OPINION in this country that says otherwise...

Just because you're pissed off, doesn't mean you're right...

Top 5 Regular Season QB could be right...But that is NOT what we are talking about. We were talking about what I consider as "Big Games", and how Romo is a "CHOKER". Did I say kick him to the curb? I am saying he is a known "CHOKER"....Is he a "Choker"?

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I know you are smarter than that. Are you saying that since Eli and Peyton won later on, then that means when they were losing, then they indeed were "Winners" back then? I dont know what else to tell you, but you are reaching at best. Dont assume Romo is headed for greatness based on others have played as horrible in the past. Lets just call a "Spade" a "Spade"? Is that not fair? If you are clearly a loser in Dec, Jan and playoffs, then you are a "Loser" during that time. Thats fair!!!! If you start to win, and it becomes the norm, then we will call you a "Winner". Right now, Romo is a "Big Choker". Same label that Peyton had, up "UNTIL" he started "WINNING". Breaking more regular season records did not get that label off of him? Did it? HELL NO!!!! He won when it counted and the label was "REMOVED"..PERIOD... But keep reaching..

You really think those two quarterbacks improved that much all of the sudden, and that defensive improvements had nothing to do with it?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I know you are smarter than that. Are you saying that since Eli and Peyton won later on, then that means when they were losing, then they indeed were "Winners" back then? I dont know what else to tell you, but you are reaching at best. Dont assume Romo is headed for greatness based on others have played as horrible in the past. Lets just call a "Spade" a "Spade"? Is that not fair? If you are clearly a loser in Dec, Jan and playoffs, then you are a "Loser" during that time. Thats fair!!!! If you start to win, and it becomes the norm, then we will call you a "Winner". Right now, Romo is a "Big Choker". Same label that Peyton had, up "UNTIL" he started "WINNING". Breaking more regular season records did not get that label off of him? Did it? HELL NO!!!! He won when it counted and the label was "REMOVED"..PERIOD... But keep reaching..

You just compared Tony Romo to Peyton Manning by calling him a "choker" UNTIL he wins the big game - does that mean you think Tony will overcome the title "choker" by winning a Super Bowl just like Manning did, or did you just not realize that you were making an excellent point AGAINST your own argument?

[DirkFTW]

Romo is the most important player on the Cowboys. Deal with it.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

You really think those two quarterbacks improved that much all of the sudden, and that defensive improvements had nothing to do with it?

I think they grew and matured "INTO" Winners...I think they went to the drawing board and found out what it takes to become a "Big Game" winner. Dont know what "THEY" did, but they did something to get them over the hump. Winning one or two games did not get them over the hump, they both took that hump, and RAN over it..FULL SPEED...

[Flacolaco]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Romo is the most important player on the Cowboys. Deal with it.

Underrated.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You just compared Tony Romo to Peyton Manning by calling him a "choker" UNTIL he wins the big game - does that mean you think Tony will overcome the title "choker" by winning a Super Bowl just like Manning did, or did you just not realize that you were making an excellent point AGAINST your own argument?

You missing the whole point.. I am telling you to "NOT ASSUME" Romo will do the same thing. It is NOT a "GIVEN" he can do the same thing. In that case, we can say the exact same for EVERY QB in the league????

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Top 5 Regular Season QB could be right...But that is NOT what we are talking about. We were talking about what I consider as "Big Games", and how Romo is a "CHOKER". Did I say kick him to the curb? I am saying he is a known "CHOKER"....Is he a "Choker"?

I don't think he's a choker - he's as clutch in the two-minute drill as anyone can be...


He botched the hold against the Seahawks when he shouldn't have been holding the ball in the first place...

He got picked apart by the Giants defense last year the SAME WAY Tom Brady did...


Aside from those two, what other "big games" has he lost?

Are you telling me that the Steelers game yesterday is going to have more impact on our chances of making the playoffs than the amazing game Romo threw against the Eagles earlier in the season???

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

You missing the whole point.. I am telling you to "NOT ASSUME" Romo will do the same thing. It is NOT a "GIVEN" he can do the same thing. In that case, we can say the exact same for EVERY QB in the league????

So you're point is that Tony Romo is a choker and nothing else?

Case closed, I guess - you win...


My mom will be by later to suck you off, champ!

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I think they grew and matured "INTO" Winners...I think they went to the drawing board and found out what it takes to become a "Big Game" winner. Dont know what "THEY" did, but they did something to get them over the hump. Winning one or two games did not get them over the hump, they both took that hump, and RAN over it..FULL SPEED...

If you don't even know what they did, how can you even be sure they did something? What if the other players around them started playing better?

[Flacolaco]

I wonder is UD's mom is also a chok....never mind.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I wonder is UD's mom is also a chok....never mind.

I believe they call it a "gagger" in her industry...

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So you're point is that Tony Romo is a choker and nothing else?

Case closed, I guess - you win...


My mom will be by later to suck you off, champ!

Thats the whole point...Romo is a "CHOKER"...Period!!! This game against the Steelers was indeed a VERY big game, and once again it is a December game. Did we see anything in the outcome? NOPE!!!

In order for the Cowboys to even make the playoffs, Romo has to win the "Big Games" in December and January. He is off to an 0-1 start in 2008. Same trend as the past so far. If Romo wins the "Big Games" he will lose that label and the Cowboys will make the playoffs.

If Romo continues to lose the "Big Games" this year, the Cowboys will be at home come playoff time. Last year, he lost the "Big Games" in December and Jan and we went in backwards into the playoffs. We all know what happened next. Romo cant just turn it on/off, he has to be on point to win the "Big Games"..

If Romo has a losing record in 2008 in December, the Cowboys more than likely will be at home come playoffs?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If you don't even know what they did, how can you even be sure they did something? What if the other players around them started playing better?

Do you know? One thing for sure..They became WINNERS by winning the "Big Games"....

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Do you know? One thing for sure..They became "WINNERS" by "winning" the "Big Games"....

Fixed (Are your quoting fingers tired yet?)

[dirno2000]

Yes, I would have made that arguement against Eli last year, based on the facts. I would have made that arguement against Payton 3years ago as well based on the facts. Every paid opinion said the same exact thing..The sad part is we all live in the present, so that is all I have to go by...Sorry if I cant just assume Romo is Payton or Brady based on the fact that Romo has not won a playoff game yet, due to the fact that he has had the "Team to Beat" both years in the NFC. I am sorry, but I just cant do that.

So do you see the problem with saying "based on facts Tony Romo can't win big games"? The facts only tell you what happened in the past not what he's capeable of doing.

In my mind he's won big games. When he took over the starting job we were dead in the water. He won huge road games at Carolina and New York to get us in the playoffs that year. Last year he won in New York to essentially clinch the division and he beat a 1 loss GB team to clinch the NFC.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's going to win a playoff game and that he's capeable of winning a Super Bowl.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

So do you see the problem with saying "based on facts Tony Romo can't win big games"? The facts only tell you what happened in the past not what he's capeable of doing.

In my mind he's won big games. When he took over the starting job we were dead in the water. He won huge road games at Carolina and New York to get us in the playoffs that year. Last year he won in New York to essentially clinch the division and he beat a 1 loss GB team to clinch the NFC.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's going to win a playoff game and that he's capeable of winning a Super Bowl.

What I am saying that overall he is a "Choker". He has won a couple of "Big Games" in my book, but overall he has performed as a "Choker" in my definition of "Big Game". In playoff games he is 0-2, so that indeed makes him a "Choker" as well.

Will he win a playoff game? I think so, and "HOPE" so..
Will he win a Superbowl? I "HOPE" so....
Is he currently a Choker? Yes
Does he underperform in Dec/Jan/Playoffs? Yes

There is no doubt in my mind that he can "Become" capable of winning a Super Bowl. He has all the tools to be a great QB. Problem right now is that he is a "Mental Midget", just like I said. He reminds me of Howard. All the talent in the world, but just does not have it all mentally to get to the next level. Howard is ahead of Romo in that aspect, because Howard has experienced winning in the "Big Games" and the playoffs. IMO...

Lastly, I agree Romo has won several "HUGE" games for the Cowboys...I am behind you on that, but my problem is with my definition of "Big Games" when he chokes. As you know, you are who you are in the "Big Games", not "HUGE" games. Ask Jerry Jones, which games he prefers to win? I guarantee he takes the "Big Games" over the "Huge Games". I think as fans, we would all agree to that...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

What I am saying that overall he is a "Choker". He has won a couple of "Big Games" in my book, but overall he has performed as a "Choker" in my definition of "Big Game". In playoff games he is 0-2, so that indeed makes him a "Choker" as well.

Will he win a playoff game? I think so, and "HOPE" so..
Will he win a Superbowl? I "HOPE" so....
Is he currently a Choker? Yes
Does he underperform in Dec/Jan/Playoffs? Yes

There is no doubt in my mind that he can "Become" capable of winning a Super Bowl. He has all the tools to be a great QB. Problem right now is that he is a "Mental Midget", just like I said. He reminds me of Howard. All the talent in the world, but just does not have it all mentally to get to the next level. Howard is ahead of Romo in that aspect, because Howard has experienced winning in the "Big Games" and the playoffs. IMO...

Lastly, I agree Romo has won several "HUGE" games for the Cowboys...I am behind you on that, but my problem is with my definition of "Big Games" when he chokes. As you know, you are who you are in the "Big Games", not "HUGE" games. Ask Jerry Jones, which games he prefers to win? I guarantee he takes the "Big Games" over the "Huge Games". I think as fans, we would all agree to that...

That's kinda like saying "you're an ass..."

Have you been an ass in the past? Yes...
Are you being an ass right now? Yes...
Is there a high probability that you'll be an ass tomorrow? Yes...
Are you an ass ALL the time? No...

Does that make you an ass, or just an ass when you decide to act like one?

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

That's kinda like saying "you're an ass..."

Have you been an ass in the past? Yes...
Are you being an ass right now? Yes...
Is there a high probability that you'll be an ass tomorrow? Yes...
Are you an ass ALL the time? No...

Does that make you an ass, or just an ass when you decide to act like one?

Nope, but that does make "YOU" an ass...Just because you are "NOT" an ass all the time, does not mean you are "NOT" an ass....

[dirno2000]

So you now admit that he's won big games but he's a choker because he hasn't won every big game. That's a pretty high standard but ok.

For the record he had the higest QB rating in the 2006 playoffs. Granted he only played one game but the point is he played well enough to beat Seattle. A snap slipped out of his hands. In my mind that's only a choke if it happened because he was nervous and I don't think that's the case. Right before that he threw a dart to Witten that should have rendered the FG unnecessary. He didn't play horribly against the Giants either.

What if he plays well and we win this week? Is he not a choker then? My guess is you'll find some way to qualify that too.

Bottom line, if you don't realize how fortunate we are to have Romo as our quarterback I don't know what to tell you because there a lot of other teams that wish they did.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Nope, but that does make "YOU" an ass...Just because you are "NOT" an ass all the time, does not mean you are "NO" an ass....

I like what you did there - very clever...



"I know you are, but what am I?"

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

So you now admit that he's won big games but he's a choker because he hasn't won every big game. That's a pretty high standard but ok.

For the record he had the higest QB rating in the 2006 playoffs. Granted he only played one game but the point is he played well enough to beat Seattle. A snap slipped out of his hands. In my mind that's only a choke if it happened because he was nervous and I don't think that's the case. Right before that he threw a dart to Witten that should have rendered the FG unnecessary. He didn't play horribly against the Giants either.

What if he plays well and we win this week? Is he not a choker then? My guess is you'll find some way to qualify that too.

Bottom line, if you don't realize how fortunate we are to have Romo as our quarterback I don't know what to tell you because there a lot of other teams that wish they did.

Good try at sarcasm. I guess your standards are very low, since you call him a winner because he has won a couple of Big Games in Dec and Jan?

My bad, I am sorry but I dont change opinions on him being a choker by each game, unlike others. I showed you his "TOTAL" record during Dec/Jan and the Playoffs...Those are "Big Games".

Tell me this. The Cowboys defeated the Giants two times last year in two "HUGE" games, but lost to the Giants only "1" time in (1)Big Game. Which one mattered? Which one would the team like to have? The "HUGE" two wins or the one "Big Game" win?

There are alot of teams in the NFL that wish they had Romo. I am just saying the teams with the QB's I listed are NOT one of them..Thats all I am saying. Could this change? Yes!

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I like what you did there - very clever...



"I know you are, but what am I?"

LMAO...