Cuban hit where it hurts - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

madape · 05-19-2006, 02:58 PM

Mavs, Cuban hit where it hurts
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....22121a6e.html

Kevin Blackistone
Dallas Morning News
12:24 PM CDT on Friday, May 19, 2006

It should've been no surprise that Mark Cuban ventured into the film business a few years ago. He's shown a keen interest in the visual arts during most of his time as Mavericks owner.

Ask Chris Webber. Shaquille O'Neal. Yao Ming.

All became subjects of Cuban productions in recent years, productions he was so proud of that he shared them with the league office. Wanted it to see how Webber dragged his pivot foot and the referees never called it. How Shaq always stepped across the free throw line before his shot hit anything. How Yao set moving screens that weren't drawing whistles.

The chicken came home to roost Thursday.

How else to explain the sudden unexpected suspension of starting guard Jason Terry for tonight's Game 6? The league announced late Thursday afternoon that it was benching Terry for punching Michael Finley during a scrum with seconds left in Game 5. Finley was unusually agitated after the grappling. Terry wasn't assessed a foul on the play. No one seemed to see anything unseemly happen. A jump ball was called.

But the Spurs went Cuban on the Mavericks sometime after the game. They sent a tape to the league office that showed Terry landing a punch to Finley's groin. It was an easy decision for league disciplinarian Stu Jackson, who earlier in this postseason tossed Miami's Udonis Haslem for a game for angrily throwing his mouthpiece in the direction of an official. Cuban, not surprisingly, disagreed with Jackson's penalty. A fine was due, he said, but not a suspension.

Oh, well. Live by Netflix, die by Netflix.

Cuban isn't the only NBA team boss who sends the league office tape. He's just made his team one of the biggest exercisers of the practice. Now the Mavericks' great opportunity to move past the Spurs in the playoffs for the first time is in great jeopardy. With Terry and the home court, where the Spurs haven't beaten the Mavericks in two games during this series, it seemed like tonight's game was theirs to lose. With Terry in civvies, it will be the Spurs' to lose. This will test coach of the year Avery Johnson and his staff like they haven't been all year.

What, after all, are they to do? Return Adrian Griffin to the starting lineup? Griffin teamed with Terry until it became apparent after Game 1 that the team was better with Devin Harris joining Terry in the backcourt and trying to run past the Spurs. Griffin hasn't even played the last three games.

How about starting Marquis Daniels? Johnson has had to defend Daniels as being one of "his guys" because he seems so often to have little patience for any Daniels miscue, as was the case early in this series, when he snatched Daniels after a horrible turnover and foul. Or how about return Jerry Stackhouse to a starter's role and sacrifice all that microwaved offense he brings off the bench? The bench is short of scorers as it is.

Of course, the NBA conspiracy theorists among us are probably saying that this is all a grand scheme by the league to somehow ensure that the most-anticipated matchup of the postseason, which is living up to expectations and then some, keeps going until the deciding Game 7 in San Antonio. But that's pure poppycock. Don King isn't running this show. And the way these playoffs have been going, what with all the overtimes and buzzer-beaters and nail-biters and upsets, the league doesn't need to orchestrate any theater.

The bottom line is that Terry, one of a locker room full of good guys for the Mavericks, lost his cool for a split second and, as a result, got what anyone else who committed the offense he did would get: a game off. It wasn't Raja Bell clothes lining Kobe Bryant, which Bell did foolishly in Game 5 of the Suns' opening-round series against the Lakers to draw a Game 6 suspension. It wasn't Ron Artest elbowing Manu Ginobili in the head in the opener of the Kings-Spurs series, which cost the historically feisty Artest a Game 2 appearance. It wasn't Miami's James Posey bum-rushing Chicago's Kirk Hinrich, which cost Posey a game in the Heat-Bulls opening-round series.

But it was a punch. The league doesn't tolerate it; can't tolerate it. Terry has no one to blame except himself – at least for losing his cool. Having been found out, however, after no one saw anything untoward at first, is something Terry can share with his boss.

Had the fist been on the opposition's arm, you can bet a tape would've been overnighted from Dallas to New York pointing out the transgression and calling for justice.

alexamenos · 05-19-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Cuban isn't the only NBA team boss who sends the league office tape. He's just made his team one of the biggest exercisers of the practice.

I wonder whether anyone has any actual evidence of Cuban being "one of the biggest exercisers of the practice", or whether perhaps this is one of those things which is often accepted only because it is so often repeated.

I honestly don't know, I'm just wondering if anyone has any real evidence.

Cheers

madape · 05-19-2006, 03:04 PM

Funny that after all these years of Cuban bitching and sending tapes to the league office, the Spurs finally show Mr. Money how champions complain about officiating

It's not that Cuban doesn't try. It's just that he's incompetent.

A loudmouthed, incompetent owner. That's what we have.

alexamenos · 05-19-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Funny that after all these years of Cuban bitching and sending tapes to the league office, the Spurs finally show Mr. Money how champions complain about officiating

It's not that Cuban doesn't try. It's just that he's incompetent.

A loudmouthed, incompetent owner. That's what we have.

I guess you could argue that we were much better off during the glory years of Ross Perot, Jr and Co....but anyway -

All I really know is that many teams somewhat routinely send in tapes to the league office. I don't have any idea which teams do it the most often nor which teams have the most *success*, however we might quantify success.

This is why I wonder whether anyone has any evidence supporting your statement. Merely repeating the statement again and again doesn't make it more true.

Cheers

bernardos70 · 05-19-2006, 03:15 PM

Most NBA teams probably send them quietly, we didn't hear the Spurs sent anything to the league office until the league dealt the suspension. But Cuban sends it and says so when he does, so I think it makes it look like he might be the biggest practicioner of this exercise. For example, if we are to believe what he said, then the Spurs send more tape for review to NBA officials than Dallas did this year.

Gus · 05-19-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

Most NBA teams probably send them quietly, we didn't hear the Spurs sent anything to the league office until the league dealt the suspension. But Cuban sends it and says so when he does, so I think it makes it look like he might be the biggest practicioner of this exercise. For example, if we are to believe what he said, then the Spurs send more tape for review to NBA officials than Dallas did this year.

As annoying as he can be, at least he looks out for his team. If stuff isn't called like moving screens and dragging pivot feet, I have no problem with him sending tape to the league. If violations of the rules go on and the league can't seem to, or refuses to do anything about it, at least he calls them on it.

He does get over emotional a lot, but at least he passoinate about the team. He sticks up for his players sometimes to a fault. I think if Jerry Jones was younger, he would be A LOT like Cuban.

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gus

As annoying as he can be, at least he looks out for his team. If stuff isn't called like moving screens and dragging pivot feet, I have no problem with him sending tape to the league. If violations of the rules go on and the league can't seem to, or refuses to do anything about it, at least he calls them on it.

He does get over emotional a lot, but at least he passoinate about the team. He sticks up for his players sometimes to a fault. I think if Jerry Jones was younger, he would be A LOT like Cuban.

yeah i'm not really understanding the cuban hate from mav fans, he turned this team into a contender. and he is passionate about it.. that's what i want from an owner.

u2sarajevo · 05-19-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.fourty.one

yeah i'm not really understanding the cuban hate from mav fans, he turned this team into a contender. and he is passionate about it.. that's what i want from an owner.

Well, this site has lots of people that complain about Cuban. And it is a bit annoying at times. Alot are "fans" of specific players that went to another team. Well, most are those types.

Madape blames Cuban for Nash leaving. Murphy? He just hates Cuban because of the way he acts. Chum?.... Nash and Finley.

I know there's more, but those are the top that I can think of.

Personally, if I owned the Mavs, I would be the most hated Owner of any sport ever. Because not only would I be doing the same things Cuban does, but I wouldn't relent. Wouldn't that be grand?

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 03:42 PM

why would people be mad because nash and finley left.. we are better now.

that's like getting mad at cuban for trading howard, but winning a championship the next year.

u2sarajevo · 05-19-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.fourty.one

why would people be mad because nash and finley left.. we are better now.

that's like getting mad at cuban for trading howard, but winning a championship the next year.

shhhhhhh..... don't throw logic into it. That is meaningless.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-19-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u2sarajevo

Well, this site has lots of people that complain about Cuban. And it is a bit annoying at times. Alot are "fans" of specific players that went to another team. Well, most are those types.

Madape blames Cuban for Nash leaving. Murphy? He just hates Cuban because of the way he acts. Chum?.... Nash and Finley.

I know there's more, but those are the top that I can think of.

Personally, if I owned the Mavs, I would be the most hated Owner of any sport ever. Because not only would I be doing the same things Cuban does, but I wouldn't relent. Wouldn't that be grand?

Preach it!

Murphy3 · 05-19-2006, 03:55 PM

Fin's a freaking p*ss. All Spurs players are p*sses. I cannot wait to see the mavs kick the sh*t out of them tonight...

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 03:58 PM

my biggest hope is that DJ gets some minutes, and dunks on duncan.

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:03 PM

In this case, Cuban is hurting the Mavs.

It makes you wonder what he does to help us.

Clearly, he gave up spending money on the team two years ago. No free agents. Nash and Finley dumped to save Cubes a few bucks..

I know everyone likes to give him credit for drafting Dirk and building the team around him, but the guy responsible for that was run out of town by the big crybaby.

He did bring us Dennis Rodman and Erick Dampier. I'll give him 100% credit for those moves.

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 05:11 PM

madape you just seem spoiled to me if you dont appreciate the money and passion cuban has put into this team, which is now a contender. i live in portland and i would much rather have mark cuban as the owner of the blazers than paul (i hate basketball) allen.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-19-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Clearly, he gave up spending money on the team two years ago. No free agents. Nash and Finley dumped to save Cubes a few bucks..

When it comes time to re-sign the likes of Dirk Nowitzki, you might think twice about why Nash and Fin aren't here anymore.

And that Dennis Rodman/Dampier comment was cute... Just real cute. Nevermind Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Keith Van Horn and the rest. Nah, Cubes didn't have nothing to do with that. He'd never spend any money to make the team better. All just to save Cubes a few bucks...

bernardos70 · 05-19-2006, 05:18 PM

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

chumdawg · 05-19-2006, 05:25 PM

Cuban was good for the Mavericks for quite some time. Now he has worn out his usefulness and quite possibly is hindering the team's progression on the basketball court with his arrogant antics.

The era where could Cuban could do things with money that other franchises could not (or were not willing to) do has passed. He's a no-factor anymore when it comes to the product on the court.

EricaLubarsky · 05-19-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

It's funny-- the number one payroll was out of the playoff race halfway through the season.

I still dont know how the Spurs have put together their team for 33million less. Oh wait, KVH for 16 million, Finley for 16 million.

Rhylan · 05-19-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Cuban was good for the Mavericks for quite some time. Now he has worn out his usefulness and quite possibly is hindering the team's progression on the basketball court with his arrogant antics.

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You're wrong.

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.fourty.one

madape you just seem spoiled to me if you dont appreciate the money and passion cuban has put into this team, which is now a contender. i live in portland and i would much rather have mark cuban as the owner of the blazers than paul (i hate basketball) allen.

Again, the money was there three years ago. I was fan of his back then. He hasn't spent a dime on this team since the Dampier fiasco. Since then, he's cut Finley for nothing. He's let Terry and Van Horn's contracts expire with nothing in return. He's cut corners everwhere he can.

The days of Mark Cuban the free spending billionaire owner are over. It's an illusion. Even when he did spend money, he spent it poorly. His "contributions" to this team included overpaying for Raef LaFrentz, screwing us with Dampier's contract, throwing away a promising season with the Dennis Rodman circus, screwing us for years by pissing off high powered agents, never ever EVER EVER EVER signing a big name free agent. Now he's Donald Sterling (only I guess Sterling spends money these days, unlike Cubes).

Passion? Sure. But when his passion embarrasses the franchise, or worse HURTS the team.. then what is it good for?

chumdawg · 05-19-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

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You're wrong.

I'm not attributing recent on-court success to Cuban's dollars.

alexamenos · 05-19-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

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You're wrong.

what is it I don't get here?

they've got a 38 yo Coach of the Year, a stable load of good young talent, they just put together a 60 win season and they're for all intents and purposes as close to the NBA finals as the team has ever been in franchise history.

Just what more should Cuban be doing right now?

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Again, the money was there three years ago. I was fan of his back then. He hasn't spent a dime on this team since the Dampier fiasco. Since then, he's cut Finley for nothing. He's let Terry and Van Horn's contracts expire with nothing in return. He's cut corners everwhere he can.

The days of Mark Cuban the free spending billionaire owner are over. It's an illusion. Even when he did spend money, he spent it poorly. His "contributions" to this team included overpaying for Raef LaFrentz, screwing us with Dampier's contract, throwing away a promising season with the Dennis Rodman circus, screwing us for years by pissing off high powered agents, never ever EVER EVER EVER signing a big name free agent. Now he's Donald Sterling (only I guess Sterling spends money these days, unlike Cubes).

Passion? Sure. But when his passion embarrasses the franchise, or worse HURTS the team.. then what is it good for?

ok you complain that he kept the team together (basically) this year and didn't spend any money.

this team has grown together and they are better than they were last year. if they win the championship this year, do you still think cuban should have spent more money?

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

When it comes time to re-sign the likes of Dirk Nowitzki, you might think twice about why Nash and Fin aren't here anymore.

And that Dennis Rodman/Dampier comment was cute... Just real cute. Nevermind Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Keith Van Horn and the rest. Nah, Cubes didn't have nothing to do with that. He'd never spend any money to make the team better. All just to save Cubes a few bucks...

Josh Howard makes nothing. Devin Harris makes nothing.

The Jamison trade was a cost cutting move pure and simple. This team didn't give a crap about Stackhouse when they traded for him. He was an affordable throw in to get rid of Jamison and to get the #5 pick. He wasn't even here before they started talking about relegating him deep on the bench.

Van Horn was a 2 year deal. And as planeed, they're dumping him and his contract as fast as they can with NO salary coming back. How convenient. Sounds like something the Atlanta Hawks would do. Same thing goes with Terry. My guess is that Cubes loses him for money this year. The bastard won't pay the guy what he's worth.. just like lowballed Nash when HIS contract came up.

Cuban cheapskates our free agents now. What's worse is that he rips them when they leave. Unprofessional is one word I'd use. Cheap is another. The best is incompetent. Cuban is incompetent.

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 05:38 PM

that classless bitch might lead us to our first nba title this year.

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.fourty.one

ok you complain that he kept the team together (basically) this year and didn't spend any money.

this team has grown together and they are better than they were last year. if they win the championship this year, do you still think cuban should have spent more money?

You might argue that being a cheapskate has ALREADY cost this team a championship.

Remember, it was Steve Nash that knocked us out in the second round last year. God HELP Cuban if Finley vaults the Spurs past the Mavs this year.

dude1394 · 05-19-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Funny that after all these years of Cuban bitching and sending tapes to the league office, the Spurs finally show Mr. Money how champions complain about officiating

It's not that Cuban doesn't try. It's just that he's incompetent.

A loudmouthed, incompetent owner. That's what we have.

Yea but he's YOUR owner. Pucker-up 'ape!

chumdawg · 05-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Just what more should Cuban be doing right now?

Staying out of the damn way?

dude1394 · 05-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

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You're wrong.

Oh SO SCOREBOARD!!!

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.fourty.one

that classless bitch might lead us to our first nba title this year.

and he might just lead either the Suns or the Spurs to THEIR NBA titles this year.

fluid.forty.one · 05-19-2006, 05:44 PM

seems like good business to me, he has his investments placed very strategically

seriously though i think the mavs will win it.

Drbio · 05-19-2006, 05:46 PM

I don't necessarily like everything that Cuban does, but I do the fact that he is our owner and has not been afraid to take chances or spend money. Best owner in the NBA.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-19-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Again, the money was there three years ago. I was fan of his back then. He hasn't spent a dime on this team since the Dampier fiasco. Since then, he's cut Finley for nothing. He's let Terry and Van Horn's contracts expire with nothing in return. He's cut corners everwhere he can.

Uh, dude, until Jet and KVH actually do sign with other teams, this is bullshit and means absolutely nothing. For all we know, Jet will be re-signed. I'll be surprised if Van Horn doesn't leave, but that's just as much a basketball decision as it is a financial one.

Quote:

The days of Mark Cuban the free spending billionaire owner are over. It's an illusion. Even when he did spend money, he spent it poorly. His "contributions" to this team included overpaying for Raef LaFrentz, screwing us with Dampier's contract, throwing away a promising season with the Dennis Rodman circus, screwing us for years by pissing off high powered agents, never ever EVER EVER EVER signing a big name free agent. Now he's Donald Sterling (only I guess Sterling spends money these days, unlike Cubes).

How dense can you be? Honestly? You give us a bunch of bullshit about how Cuban is cheap and chooses not to spend money anymore, how the days of his freespending are over, and then you chastize him for just that by overpaying LaFrentz.

Ape, THAT's the fucking reason that the days of the "free spending billionaire owner" are gone. It's because the freespending was bullshit to begin with. Cuban obviously didn't believe that his spending would come back to haunt him, but it did. THAT'S the fucking reason why Nash and Finley are gone. It ain't because he's cheap, it's because his spending destroyed his roster flexibility. Nash and Finley are gone because Cuban was looking down the road at when Dirk and Howard become free agents, and other roster moves have to be made. Bad decisions? That's up for debate, and you're certainly not alone in believing so. But they are just as much basketball decsions as they are financial ones.

Quote:

Passion? Sure. But when his passion embarrasses the franchise, or worse HURTS the team.. then what is it good for?

I'll give you that he has embarrassed, and perhaps hurt the franchise, but "passion" and "cheap" don't go hand-in-hand. Pro-Sports team owners can be one, or the other, not both. And you best believe his case is the former.

Honestly ape, how many times can you contradict yourself in one post? My favorite was the bit about letting Jet's and Van Horn's contracts expire for nothing. Aside from the fact that for all we know they may very well be re-signed, the fact that they're even here to begin with proves that the idea that Cuban is "cheap", that he's not willing to spend millions and millions of his dollars to help this team win, is complete and utter bullshit.

dude1394 · 05-19-2006, 05:50 PM

This one says it all....Put up or shut up cubes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan
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Oh crap 'ape mutters, he did.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-19-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Josh Howard makes nothing. Devin Harris makes nothing.

You think it's going to stay that way? I sure as hell don't.

Quote:

The Jamison trade was a cost cutting move pure and simple. This team didn't give a crap about Stackhouse when they traded for him. He was an affordable throw in to get rid of Jamison and to get the #5 pick. He wasn't even here before they started talking about relegating him deep on the bench.

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. The Jamison move was to acquire devin harris and a sixth man. And moreso, Jamison wanted out. Pure and simple.

Quote:

Van Horn was a 2 year deal. And as planeed, they're dumping him and his contract as fast as they can with NO salary coming back. How convenient. Sounds like something the Atlanta Hawks would do. Same thing goes with Terry. My guess is that Cubes loses him for money this year. The bastard won't pay the guy what he's worth.. just like lowballed Nash when HIS contract came up.

Still roughly $30,000,000 out of Cuban's pocket. And Van Horn surely ain't worth that kind of money.

Quote:

Cuban cheapskates our free agents now. What's worse is that he rips them when they leave. Unprofessional is one word I'd use. Cheap is another. The best is incompetent. Cuban is incompetent.

Uh, there was one free agent. One. Surely it was the most important one, but it was ONE free agent. Singular. He made Nash an offer. Phoenix made him a better one.

madape · 05-19-2006, 05:52 PM

You want to talk about scoreboard? Go check last year's playoffs. Ask Steve Nash what the scoreboard said then.

dude1394 · 05-19-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

You want to talk about scoreboard? Go check last year's playoffs. Ask Steve Nash what the scoreboard was.

WCF is not a championship...Is that ALL you aspire to?

Rhylan · 05-19-2006, 06:00 PM

Let's bring back the Antwins.

I'm tired of all this defense and athleticism. I want a gravity bound 6'8" PF (powerless forward) who dribbles at his shoulders and a 6'9" PF who misses more gimmes than my team in the Grapevine rec league does.

60 wins.. ugh. I want my greasy haired hippie back. Clearly, Dirk has not smoked as much weed the last two seasons, and we shouldn't rob him of that luxury of having his favorite buddy here to smoke dope with.

alexamenos · 05-19-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

Let's bring back the Antwins.

I'm tired of all this defense and athleticism. I want a gravity bound 6'8" PF (powerless forward) who dribbles at his shoulders and a 6'9" PF who misses more gimmes than my team in the Grapevine rec league does.

60 wins.. ugh. I want my greasy haired hippie back. Clearly, Dirk has not smoked as much weed the last two seasons, and we shouldn't rob him of that luxury of having his favorite buddy here to smoke dope with.

good one...

Cuban's remarks on the decision to release Fin --

To get under the tax threshold, they [other teams] offered good players packaged with horrible contracts. We took them. We hoped the talent would get us a championship before the number of bad contracts we took on in trades caught up with us.

It didn’t happen.

Over the past year we have done our best to try to “rebuild” and still be in a position to win a championship....

...we have gone from just trying to acquire talent to have assets that in turn might be traded for better talent, to making sure we have players that fill a role for Coach Johnson’s vision of the team.

that works for me.

cheers