Diop or Bradley - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Usually Lurkin · 02-24-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

Couldn't have said it better. Bradley looks good on the stat board but it never took his team anywhere. Stats can be decieving sometimes and Bradley is one of those type of players. Part of the reason I like Diop is that he doesn't shoot much. He is willing to do all the little things without demanding the ball and plays hard no matter what.

The problem with Bradley is that everyone (including Nellie) expected him to take his teams everywhere. What's great about Diop (and Damp) is that everyone expects them to just do some grunt work.

Diop would never have played on the 02-03 team. The only reason Bradley played was because he could hit a short jumper. That's not to say anything about the quality of either player, but to highlight how Bradley (really the center position) was misused for so much of his time here. For those limited stretches when Bradley was used as a defensive center, he was energy. He did scrap, he did dive for balls, he rebounded, and if Diop is fortunate enough to block and alter as many shots as Bradley did, we'll all say Diop was one of the greatest centers in Mavericks history.

sixeightmkw · 02-24-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

The problem with Bradley is that everyone (including Nellie) expected him to take his teams everywhere. What's great about Diop (and Damp) is that everyone expects them to just do some grunt work.

Diop would never have played on the 02-03 team. The only reason Bradley played was because he could hit a short jumper. That's not to say anything about the quality of either player, but to highlight how Bradley (really the center position) was misused for so much of his time here. For those limited stretches when Bradley was used as a defensive center, he was energy. He did scrap, he did dive for balls, he rebounded, and if Diop is fortunate enough to block and alter as many shots as Bradley did, we'll all say Diop was one of the greatest centers in Mavericks history.

good point (said in robot greggo voice)

Jet Terry · 02-24-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

Bradley was a huge part of that team. HE averaged 21.4 minutes a game for the season. Diop averages 17.8 right now. Do you even have a clue what you're talking about? How long have you been a Mavericks fan?

This coming from the same guy that thinks Dampier sucks.

u2sarajevo · 02-24-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

This coming from the same guy that thinks Dampier sucks.

You apparently haven't been coming here very long. Madape is THE authority on Bradley-esque rants.

Trust me, you don't want him to go off on you.

Drbio · 02-24-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

This coming from the same guy that thinks Dampier sucks.

This coming from the same guy who thinks urinal cakes are a snack food.

sixeightmkw · 02-24-2006, 04:57 PM

Can I blow this thread up or something? KABOOOOOOOMY

madape · 02-24-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

This coming from the same guy that thinks Dampier sucks.

Dampier does suck. Don't you read the papers? "The biggest bust in franchise history".

G-Man · 02-24-2006, 10:55 PM

Ain't it great to have a season going so well we have to reach back to last year for something to argue about? No more Finley not driving, or scoring or defending. No more Raef LaFoul. No more small ball or Nellie ball. No more matador defense by Nash. Even better, less matador D by Terry, no more Damp with 2 fouls in the 1st 3 minutes. No more getting eaten up by Gasol, or point guards or every decent 2 or 3 in the league like back in Novemeber. No more living or dying by Dirk's jump shot.

Things are going so great, I feel like a Cubs fan in April. Very early April.

Responding to a 19 point deficit with a 21 to 2 run? Time to bash Shawn Bradley and tweak my buddies on the absolute best Mav's board.

Enjoy it while it lasts. It might last all damned year!

Day1MavsFan · 02-26-2006, 12:41 AM

When Diop puts up a 20/20, then we'll talk.

orangedays · 02-26-2006, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

When Diop puts up a 20/20, then we'll talk.

Marion pulled off a 30/20 tonight against the 'Cats. Not too shabby.

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

When Diop puts up a 20/20, then we'll talk.

So Bradley has done a 20/20? This topic is tired. The only way I see it is Bradley does it by stats and Diop does it by hustle. Either way it benefits the team with that. Someone lock this topic or stop trying to bump this thread.

Drbio · 02-26-2006, 11:12 PM

Yeah....let's just overlook that Bradley has done that because it is only stats.

How farking stupid can this get?

Thespiralgoeson · 02-26-2006, 11:14 PM

Jet, Bradley did it with hustle too. The difference is, his hustle led to more production.

Jet Terry · 02-26-2006, 11:42 PM

Bradley sucks. The sooner you realize this the better. Bradley is the most uncoordinated player in basketball who depends solely on his length for block shots. He can hit a jumper but that isn't enough. He isn't able to hustle. His hustle is in slow motion I guess because speed was definitely a weakness along with strength. I guess that doesn't matter as long as you have stats.

Drbio · 02-27-2006, 12:13 AM

I never use this word here, but Jet...you are a f*cking moron. It's just so clear now and all doubt has been removed. That last post of yours has to be the stupidest piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune of reading. We are all stupider for having read it.

alby · 02-27-2006, 12:17 AM

I think Jet Terry's problem is that he didn't really follow the Mavericks until these last few years. Bradley definitely had the reputation of being a worthless p.o.s. during the end of his career by Maverick fans, but there should be no argument that Bradley's peak as a Maverick center is superior to Diop's peak thus far.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 12:17 AM

How old are you Drbio? In Junior High? That only explains your childish fights. I understand you are a big supporter of Bradley but get off his nuts already. He is not that good. If he was Dallas would've won in 2002-03 with Bradley dominating the minutes. He couldn't even get a starting job over Raef Lafrentz. Yes he can be effective for a short time with a mix of zone defense but once the team studies how to beat the zone Bradley was ineffective.

Drbio · 02-27-2006, 12:20 AM

Further stupidity from the forum jackass. If you are going to participate, please put a little thoguht in it. We have gotten niothing...and I do mean nothing but ignorant drivel from you. We all await your seminal thoughtful post. Sadly, we will probably wait forever. You only throw out vacuous ignorance with no basis. It's like someone saying your mother sucks and the sooner you realize it the better. Maybe that was a bad example. Ignorance like yours is either intentional or pathological. Which is it Jet? Are you hopelessly stupid or jsut being a dumbass on purpose?

alby · 02-27-2006, 12:20 AM

Jet Terry, the more you speak about Bradley as a player the less I want to defend your remarks.. they are pretty naiive man, just telling you the truth.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

Further stupidity from the forum jackass. If you are going to participate, please put a little thoguht in it. We have gotten niothing...and I do mean nothing but ignorant drivel from you. We all await your seminal thoughtful post. Sadly, we will probably wait forever. You only throw out vacuous ignorance with no basis. It's like someone saying you mother sucks. The sooner you realize it the better. Maybe that was a bad example. Ignorance like yours is either intentional or pathological. Which is it Jet? Are you hopelessly stupid or jsut being a dumbass on purpose?

I guess you haven't gotten off of Bradley's nuts.

Drbio · 02-27-2006, 12:24 AM

Continued ignorance from the forum tool. Nice.

jayC · 02-27-2006, 12:26 AM

Don Nelson just wasn't a conventional line-up guy. Diop has better hands than Bradley. In 2002-2003 he was a big part of that 14-0 run. If Nellie care more about Defense who knows?

Diop's ceiling is pretty high. The kid is only 23. As for Dampier he is the best center in franchise history. Dampier takes up space in the lane, rebounds and blocks shots. Bradley's problem was is his expectations were through the roof. He was supposed to next great big man. Instead he was a great shot blocker and good set jump shooter.

alby · 02-27-2006, 12:29 AM

If Avery Johnson had Bradley in his prime, the Mavericks would be scary good right now IMO.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 12:30 AM

I value man to man defense to fortify Dirk in the frontcourt over a jump shooter anyday. Diop is the one guarding the other teams best bigman. He even guards some quick power forwards like Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh. You could never get away with Bradley guarding those players. Dirk was forced to guard some of the better power forwards because of this. You are the ignorant one if you don't see this.

Drbio · 02-27-2006, 12:31 AM

We've established your ignorance. No need to try to state otherwise.

alby · 02-27-2006, 12:33 AM

Jet Terry, that is a valid point because it definitely aids the prevention of Dirk getting into foul trouble. But honestly, people underappreciate the value of team defense. Shawn Bradley was a great team defender and he would have been even better if Nellie wasn't his coach and if Nash/Finley wasn't our starting backcourt.

alby · 02-27-2006, 12:34 AM

Switch Bradley and Diop and I don't think Diop would be close to Shawn in production and effectiveness.

orangedays · 02-27-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayC

Don Nelson just wasn't a conventional line-up guy. Diop has better hands than Bradley. In 2002-2003 he was a big part of that 14-0 run. If Nellie care more about Defense who knows?

Diop's ceiling is pretty high. The kid is only 23. As for Dampier he is the best center in franchise history. Dampier takes up space in the lane, rebounds and blocks shots. Bradley's problem was is his expectations were through the roof. He was supposed to next great big man. Instead he was a great shot blocker and good set jump shooter.

Indeed, the times they are a-changing. Conventional big men are more of a liability now than in the past...it's tough for opposing teams to match up against effective ones on defense (such as Yao) because of the dirth of good centers in the league. However, we are seeing more and more quick, Big PF (Amare, Bosh, Howard) in who are capable of driving centers such as Yao, or Shawn Bradley, or Shaq, crazy by playing a more perimeter-oriented game and quite simply, being faster. The rules of engagement have changed a little bit since Bradley's prime so we should take that into consideration. That being said, I don't know if I would go off and say Damp's the best center in Mavs history quite yet...let's see where this season goes. But I do agree that Diop's potential is tantalizing...I'd love to see this guy get alot better. I haven't seen enough of Bradley's games to comment too much on whether he's better or not...but I think it's certainly premature to say that Diop is a better center. Bradley was a centerpiece of the Mavs defense at one point and, although you'll hear more about him getting facialized than blocking a shot, he anchored our defensive efforts quite admirably. I'm inclined to believe that if we had a young, mobile Shawn Bradley on the floor today, we'd be in pretty damn good shape (and I do confess to wishing that we had had the opportunity to see a young, healthy Bradley go up against Yao).

madape · 02-27-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

So Bradley has done a 20/20? This topic is tired. The only way I see it is Bradley does it by stats and Diop does it by hustle. Either way it benefits the team with that. Someone lock this topic or stop trying to bump this thread.

haha.. Not only has Shawn had a 20/20 game.. he's had a 20/20/10 game. The stat line was 22 points, 22 rebounds, 10 blocks. If I remember correctly, Shawn and Hakeem are the only two players to reach that feat in NBA HISTORY.

And yes, you can shut the f*ck up now. You are embarassing yourself.

Usually Lurkin · 02-27-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

I value man to man defense to fortify Dirk in the frontcourt over a jump shooter anyday. Diop is the one guarding the other teams best bigman. He even guards some quick power forwards like Pau Gasol and Chris Bosh. You could never get away with Bradley guarding those players. Dirk was forced to guard some of the better power forwards because of this. You are the ignorant one if you don't see this.

oh, goodness. please, more of this, Jet Terry. Nellie played Dirk at center because Dirk was a better defender than Shawn Bradley. That's brilliant. Did you just refer to Shawn the Stickman Mantis Bradley as a jump-shooter?

There have been a couple nice posts in this thread trying to help you construct an argument (see orangedays'). Stick to these:
1. Diop is more athletic, which works better on this team.
2. Part of successfully contending for a championship is reputation (for the refs and for the swagger), which Shawn could never bring.
3. If Shawn's reputation for taking it easy outside of gametime was real, then Avery would never play him.
4. The offense that is run now can survive very well without shawn's advantage over Diop on that end.

Don't stray from the path and at least you won't look so silly. But in the end, you will still be wrong because Shawn was better than Diop is.

Five-ofan · 02-27-2006, 09:31 AM

Jet just admit you were wrong(you are) and the thread will die. Dont continue to be an arse and expect other people to just back down do to your arseholeness.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madape

haha.. Not only has Shawn had a 20/20 game.. he's had a 20/20/10 game. The stat line was 22 points, 22 rebounds, 10 blocks. If I remember correctly, Shawn and Hakeem are the only two players to reach that feat in NBA HISTORY.

And yes, you can shut the f*ck up now. You are embarassing yourself.

link? When did this happen and where was that Bradley in the last 5 years? I'm not giving up because I know I'm right. Bradley is not what Dallas needs. I don't understand how you don't value man-to-man defense? What can I expect from fans that had the worse to one of the worse defensive team for many years (Bradley was apart of that team). Blame Nellie all you want but Bradley was not the answer here in Dallas in the last 5 years.

orangedays · 02-27-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

link? When did this happen and where was that Bradley in the last 5 years? I'm not giving up because I know I'm right. Bradley is not what Dallas needs. I don't understand how you don't value man-to-man defense? What can I expect from fans that had the worse to one of the worse defensive team for many years (Bradley was apart of that team). Blame Nellie all you want but Bradley was not the answer here in Dallas in the last 5 years.

Shawn Bradley has had 6...SIX career triple-doubles.

Linkage
Also here, under Career Highlights.

He was also the first player in NBA history to record double-figure blocks in consecutive games. Also "registered two consecutive triple-doubles on 4/17/96 (11 points, 10 rebounds, 12 blocks) and 4/19/96 (17 points, 13 rebounds, 10 blocks). He's a pretty decent player dude...to say the least.

*edit: oops, even I discounted the big guy by 1 triple-double.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 01:19 PM

Ehm did I get that one right? Did Jet Terry just get owned again?

madape · 02-27-2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

link? When did this happen and where was that Bradley in the last 5 years? I'm not giving up because I know I'm right. Bradley is not what Dallas needs. I don't understand how you don't value man-to-man defense? What can I expect from fans that had the worse to one of the worse defensive team for many years (Bradley was apart of that team). Blame Nellie all you want but Bradley was not the answer here in Dallas in the last 5 years.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shawn_...yer_files.html

There's the link, bitch. It's from NBA.com.

Notched his 5th career triple-double, with 22 points, a career high-tying 22 rebounds and a Mavericks franchise-record 13 blocked shots, against the Portland Trail Blazers on 4/7/98

Do you have anything more to say? Keep digging that hole, fool. I don't think you've quite hit the bottom yet.

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 02:02 PM

The great Shawn in 01-02 was a part of being one of the worse defensive team of all time. Giving up 101ppg and even more in the playoffs.

Arne · 02-27-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

The great Shawn in 01-02 was a part of being one of the worse defensive team of all time. Giving up 101ppg and even more in the playoffs.

Com'on, go see your psychologist...

Jet Terry · 02-27-2006, 02:11 PM

I do the same thing about stats and you give back stupid comments like that. What is a better stat than team stats on Bradley's defense. Has he ever made a team good on defense? Anyone research that?

Arne · 02-27-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

I do the same thing about stats and you give back stupid comments like that. What is a better stat than team stats on Bradley's defense. Has he ever made a team good on defense? Anyone research that?

Was it your genetics or your milieu?

Usually Lurkin · 02-27-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Terry

The great Shawn in 01-02 was a part of being one of the worse defensive team of all time. Giving up 101ppg and even more in the playoffs.

That was of course the year Shawn's minutes were reduced to 14 minutes per game. He led the league in blocked shots the year before.