Combined GDTs for this sh$#show

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

Please...we will disagree on DFS. I think you and DHWS are way off on the type of player DFS is and will continue to be. This year is all you guys are using for your argument and that's not remotely fair given the state of both teams he's played for this year. Let's just toss everything else we know about DFS out the window while we are at it.

DFS may have looked worse this year but that's on the team. You can seriously sit here and argue our defense has been better since he was traded? He was possibly the one holding it all together for all we know.

Perimeter passive, defense shit. Semantics. Bottom line is the PNR might appear to be easy to defend. Question, who defends the PNR best in NBA? Hell, night in and night out, we see Luka and Kyrie demolishing the PNR. Not sure anyone is...but if you want to dive into our guards, they tend to lazily bend around the top of the screens since they don't wanna be the guy to give up the three. That then sends the rest of the defense into the cover up, chicken with their heads cut off, type of scrambling Kyrie mentions. They need to regroup personnel and get back to switching more often as this league is riddled with guys who can pick a part defenses in the PNR.

No need to record, I watch every game. I'll see the same thing. But one thing we will be vastly apart on is your insinuation that this team and its defense would be the same if we swapped Powell with Turner. I just simply don't know how to respond to that...

Simple premise is when you have a guy like Turner, it creates a subset of thinking to the offense that there's a legit threat down low to help cover for these busts. Don't get me wrong, they can't continue at the rate, but it would be a better defense with Turner roaming the paint.

Yea. You got pretty emotional over this conversation and who knows why.

It's semantics when you don't want there to be a different between passive and stinks. But, when I say add Turner and we will still have issues, you're fine with pretending I said "it would still be the same".

If You're so good at breaking down team issues that you don't need to rewind it and can see it all real time, you're better than most teams coaching staff. I dont know why teams even have film study. Im just saying, you can find a few different things on each breakdown.

DFS is insignificant enough that I haven't watched one single Nets game, I'm not even considering what he hasn't done for them. If he was holding the 29-26 team together, then it shouldn't be hard to fix.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Sure. I think he has tried, but he just doesn't know enough about team building and has relied on the Nelsons for the majority of his ownership, with Rick bridging the gap. Soon as he is left on his own, he made quick and questionable decisions in Kidd and Nico.

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

And why would he accept the word of the guy who just quit? Just reeks of weakness.

What's really sad is Mosley's Magic are only 3 wins away from us. He shoulda been the coach.

Cuban even admitted he wasn't sure what to do when Rick quit and Donnie was fired. So he brought in basically all of the 2011 championship team to pull on our heart strings and hide behind whatever decision was made. If Dirk wants Kidd...who can argue?

Guy is just a child who can't make an adult decision to save his life with this team.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So strange people defending DFS when he has been awful for the Nets. We were lucky to move that contract when we did or it's another THJ contract that nobody wants.

I like DFS but there isn?t another single talent in the nba of Kyries caliber that could?ve been acquired with DFS and Spencer. It was a unique position of a player asking out, other orgs not taking the risk, and the FO sending him somewhere that wasn?t a priority destination.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I like DFS but there isn?t another single talent in the nba of Kyries caliber that could?ve been acquired with DFS and Spencer. It was a unique position of a player asking out, other orgs not taking the risk, and the FO sending him somewhere that wasn?t a priority destination.

I like DFS too actually, but he and Maxi were run into the ground here. Both were asked to do too much for what their talent could afford and neither are really playable anymore.

I like a lot of guys who I think we're better without. I liked KP, but he can't get a fricken' Wizards team to .500.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Rick is the guy who recommended Kidd to Cuban

Yea. A cpl posts earlier I stated such.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I like DFS too actually, but he and Maxi were run into the ground here. Both were asked to do too much for what their talent could afford and neither are really playable anymore.

I like a lot of guys who I think we're better without. I liked KP, but he can't get a fricken' Wizards team to .500.

agreed 100%, looking back its kind of shocking mavs got kyrie for dfs and spence. the mavs did not give up much besides the pick. ill still always root for them.

[EricaLubarsky]

Kidd did not coach the team today. He had a medical appointment.

[EricaLubarsky]

https://twitter.com/MavsFilmRoom/sta...160678913?s=20

[Dallas41]

Yeah the Thunder lost again

Mavs still have a shot but need to go 3-0 and hope OKC only wins 1 more game at best.

I'd be more excited if they stick with the closing lineup of Mcgee, wood, Green, Luka and kyrie

That lineup at least based on its production from Sunday gives you a slim chance to win games simply because the rebounding improves

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Yeah the Thunder lost again

Mavs still have a shot but need to go 3-0 and hope OKC only wins 1 more game at best.

I'd be more excited if they stick with the closing lineup of Mcgee, wood, Green, Luka and kyrie

That lineup at least based on its production from Sunday gives you a slim chance to win games simply because the rebounding improves

So you are telling me there's a chance.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Zeus

So you are telling me there's a chance.

Lol

Depends on if Luka decides he wants to go all out or not

I know a lot of fans on here want them to just give up and get a draft pick.

I personally think they can still make the playoffs and rebuild the roster via trades this summer.

Minnesota, New Orleans and LA can all be beaten in a playoff game by Dallas and of course the mavs can also loose to any of those teams.

But I have to believe that if Luka and kyrie somehow sneak into the play in tournament they could still be a dangerous matchup for anyone of those teams.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But the FO, at the very least, did address it by signing McGee.

It?s amazing how fucking wrong the majority of ya?ll can be before, during, and after the fact on all of this shit.

[EricaLubarsky]

Just gotta lose tonight

Teams gonna start resting guys the next couple so this may be our best bet to secure that 9/10

[SMC0007]

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/new...ington-wizards

Article of a few players talking about things we already know about the supporting cast around Luka. You just know Cuban is shaking his head thinking Okeke, Durant and Kuzma have no idea how great we are.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Just gotta lose tonight

Teams gonna start resting guys the next couple so this may be our best bet to secure that 9/10

something tells me they win tonight after the effort against the hawks...AND Mavs favored -5.5. And Kings on a b2b roady.

If Mavs can lose to the Bulls, we still have a shot at the 10 pick in the draft.

(I think most of us are preparing to miss play in and give the pick to NY)

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

something tells me they win tonight after the effort against the hawks...AND Mavs favored -5.5. And Kings on a b2b roady.

If Mavs can lose to the Bulls, we still have a shot at the 10 pick in the draft.

(I think most of us are preparing to miss play in and give the pick to NY)

Luka said he's playing until the team is officially eliminated.

It only takes one more OKC lost and then dallas control's their own fate again.

There's also a slim chance that NO looking at their schedule may not win another game down the stretch

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Let me tell ya something...prime Bruce Bowen wouldn't change our defense. It's a system problem. When an entire team sucks at defense, then it's the system more than anything. If guys aren't giving effort, coaching/system...every time.

But even more is that I have no clue how we're going to fix that issue this summer...especially if Irving stays at 50 mil per.

It's gonna be hard enough to find a defensive/rebounding big man let alone a bunch of good wing defenders.

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

[Melonhead]

TH Sr coming in at the wrong time with the wrong information to shit on Luka and Kyrie and even say there was nothing to fix with the roster prior to Kyrie trade

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

I disagree with the "point-blank period"

1) Rule/reffing changes saw the biggest year-over-year increase in OFFRTG, PPG, and TS% in league history. The NBA gimped defense. It wasn't just us that slid back. The NBA prioritized offense and made defenses harder.

2) But you are right, personnel contributed. Kidd somehow built a defense out of our crappy pieces. It was like a popsicle stick bridge that somehow supported the weight, but between rule changes and #3, it just fell apart.

3) Luka has been atrocious defensively. Some of that is his conditioning. Some of that is that he was run into the ground. He plays every summer and then he was run into the ground on offense the first 60 games.

4) Center - this is a personnel issue but also a rules change issue. The rule changes mean that the only way teams can have a change of keeping teams under 120pts is help-defense from the front court. Our PF/C position absolutely blows. I love Wood, but he is allergic to help defense. Kleber is gimpy. Powell was always the worst defensive big since LaFrentz.

Good teams have bigs that contribute and defend. Just look at the league's top teams right now

Nuggets - Jokic is MVP contenders and they have long, forwards that help defend
76ers - Embiid is dominant and they have length and defense at SF and PF
Bucks - best-in-the-league help defender, and epitome of long, strong defensive forward (Giannis)
Celts - Harford is okay. Tatum again is that long, strong defensive forward.
Cavs - Allen and Mobley
Grizz - good centers, perfect defensive support PF (Jackson Jr.)
Kings - Sabonis and Murray

You can't be a good team without being good at PF and C. Mavs just happen to be terrible at both.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

DFS regressed on defense this year.
Bullock regressed on defense this year.
Maxi regressed on defense this year (I realize he had injury issues)
Mavs overall defense regressed this year.

Why? Here are some options (there are no doubt many others):
1. We lost a top-notch defensive floor general in Jalen Brunson
2. Last year was a fluke
3. Addition of Wood and/or McGee messed with the team chemistry
4. Luka's attitude and lack of conditioning has messed with the team chemistry
5. Kidd has changed the defense from last year, it has not worked, and he is too stubborn to go back to what was successful.
6. The FO has pissed off the entire team and no one wants to play for the petulant child Cuban anymore
7. Donnie Nelson spent a year learning black magic and voodoo and has put a curse on the Mavs.
8. None of the above. Or maybe all of the above. Mavs just stink to high heaven.

Top notch defensive floor general Jalen Brunson, eh?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by saclare

Top notch defensive floor general Jalen Brunson, eh?

That made me laugh too. Glad I'm not the only one.

He was fundamentally sound defensively (even if he was limited on his size/length), and he was a hell of a leader/chemistry guy. Cuban done f@#%ed up in not re-signing him.

But he's not why our defense fell apart.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yea. You got pretty emotional over this conversation and who knows why.

It's semantics when you don't want there to be a different between passive and stinks. But, when I say add Turner and we will still have issues, you're fine with pretending I said "it would still be the same".

If You're so good at breaking down team issues that you don't need to rewind it and can see it all real time, you're better than most teams coaching staff. I dont know why teams even have film study. Im just saying, you can find a few different things on each breakdown.

DFS is insignificant enough that I haven't watched one single Nets game, I'm not even considering what he hasn't done for them. If he was holding the 29-26 team together, then it shouldn't be hard to fix.

Once again you didn't provide anything of substance to back up claims of DFS and Turner. For the latter, it's whatever, I think we are on the same page.

I'm a fan and dissecting the team the same fucking way you are. The comment about coaching is so asinine and peak stupidity tbh you're better than that.

You also just explained everything I need to know about your stance on DFS. So I think I'm good here.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Lol

Depends on if Luka decides he wants to go all out or not

I know a lot of fans on here want them to just give up and get a draft pick.

I personally think they can still make the playoffs and rebuild the roster via trades this summer.

Minnesota, New Orleans and LA can all be beaten in a playoff game by Dallas and of course the mavs can also loose to any of those teams.

But I have to believe that if Luka and kyrie somehow sneak into the play in tournament they could still be a dangerous matchup for anyone of those teams.

Having the top 10 pick goes a LOT further to rebuilding this roster. You are giving way too much credit to the FO for simply making trades or adding guys.

Mavs have an inherently flawed roster. That isn't going to change at this point in the season. I only hope they don't get hot here and lose the pick and follow that up by a loss in the POs, however far they get.

You can't sit here and say this team has a legitimate shot at the championship. Sure, we have two all-stars in Luka and Kyrie, followed by a bunch of shiny and even some lackluster turds. Even if they trimmed the rotation down, we have solid players but very easily exploitative.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/new...ington-wizards

Article of a few players talking about things we already know about the supporting cast around Luka. You just know Cuban is shaking his head thinking Okeke, Durant and Kuzma have no idea how great we are.

Badddd look and hopefully something that crosses the desk of Cuban and Nico

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

It's a personnel issue. Point blank period. Same system had the Mavs playing pretty good defense on their way to the WCF last season.

If you have any reason to blame Kidd, then make sure that effort is the same or more for the FO and Cuban. That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster.

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I disagree with the "point-blank period"

1) Rule/reffing changes saw the biggest year-over-year increase in OFFRTG, PPG, and TS% in league history. The NBA gimped defense. It wasn't just us that slid back. The NBA prioritized offense and made defenses harder.

2) But you are right, personnel contributed. Kidd somehow built a defense out of our crappy pieces. It was like a popsicle stick bridge that somehow supported the weight, but between rule changes and #3, it just fell apart.

3) Luka has been atrocious defensively. Some of that is his conditioning. Some of that is that he was run into the ground. He plays every summer and then he was run into the ground on offense the first 60 games.

4) Center - this is a personnel issue but also a rules change issue. The rule changes mean that the only way teams can have a change of keeping teams under 120pts is help-defense from the front court. Our PF/C position absolutely blows. I love Wood, but he is allergic to help defense. Kleber is gimpy. Powell was always the worst defensive big since LaFrentz.

Good teams have bigs that contribute and defend. Just look at the league's top teams right now

Nuggets - Jokic is MVP contenders and they have long, forwards that help defend
76ers - Embiid is dominant and they have length and defense at SF and PF
Bucks - best-in-the-league help defender, and epitome of long, strong defensive forward (Giannis)
Celts - Harford is okay. Tatum again is that long, strong defensive forward.
Cavs - Allen and Mobley
Grizz - good centers, perfect defensive support PF (Jackson Jr.)
Kings - Sabonis and Murray

You can't be a good team without being good at PF and C. Mavs just happen to be terrible at both.

I can lend some credence to the rule changes. It's just that when other teams do it better with the same changes, I look back at personnel. You nailed it with Luka needing to be better and our big situation needing a desperate upgrade. I'd add a need for improvement on wing defense. Would like to add someone to compete with Green for a starting wing spot. Bullock should be relegated to the 2nd unit as he's limited in his offensive abilities.

Bullock and Powell are fine as depth guys, but they've started an insane amount of games this season out of pure necessity.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by saclare

Badddd look and hopefully something that crosses the desk of Cuban and Nico

It's a bad look for sure. But you know cuban immediately spun this in his head and disregarded it.

Grant has another fun couple of breakdowns

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...ajG7O2Krg&s=19

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...4CRNBj5Sw&s=19

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...HA4S087gg&s=19

Some of this goes back to Rick's original theory on what we surround Luka with. While many of us were looking for more 2 way type players.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

Oh there's plenty here who think if we replace Kidd then all is well. Like I said, it wasn't directed at you, but others who might misinterpret. It's honestly become more wholistic in terms of the blame, so not as recently apparent. That's a good thing tbh and all parties need to feel the same intensity. Cuban, Nico, Kidd, Luka, other players.

To be completely transparent, the majority of blame lands on Cuban and Nico from my perspective. However much you want to weight it, I don't care. To me, this season is damn near wholly on the FO. That became evident by the hail mary trade for Kyrie. It's fixable this offseason, but damn it if they don't have to hit a few nails directly.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

It's a bad look for sure. But you know cuban immediately spun this in his head and disregarded it.

Grant has another fun couple of breakdowns

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...ajG7O2Krg&s=19

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...4CRNBj5Sw&s=19

https://twitter.com/GrantAfseth/stat...HA4S087gg&s=19

Some of this goes back to Rick's original theory on what we surround Luka with. While many of us were looking for more 2 way type players.

Ha! I was about to post these later as Grant is going innnnn this morning.

That last point you made is something I hadn't thought of much and is so true. It backs why a number of these guys should be depth at best, but as I stated earlier, they started so many games this year it's truly mindnumbing looking back. To be fair, Bullock doesn't have his role elevated if either guys traded are here, imo.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I must have missed where ANYONE here supports Cuban/FO. I don't recall a single person who isn't pointing a finger at them as well.

Because people don't actually read what you're saying anymore. Quick reaction is the name of the game vs nuanced thinking.

But hoping Cuban sells is whistling in the wind. What good does it do to wake up and bitch about it every day? And while he might control Nico, I don't think he's responsible for lineups.

This team has had so many problems this year on the court that to not unanimously blame Kidd is basically just total denial.

When Lincoln reinstated McClellan to run the Union army after multiple failures...his reasoning was "We must use the pieces we have."

Kidd has not properly or wisely used the pieces he has. Yes, the team needs upgrades, but there were fairly simple things he could have done that could have averted where we are now.

Playing Bullock 30mpg allowing him to take two and a half months off production-wise while shitting on Wood is a prime example of that.

If you don't hold a "defensive" player accountable, then why would they ever feel the need to play defense?

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

That made me laugh too. Glad I'm not the only one.

He was fundamentally sound defensively (even if he was limited on his size/length), and he was a hell of a leader/chemistry guy. Cuban done f@#%ed up in not re-signing him.

But he's not why our defense fell apart.

I am glad you laughed. It was meant to be a joke. It amazes me how the sense of humor on this board has deteriorated to the point where everything is taken seriously. We used to be able to be sarcastic, joke around, and everyone seemed to get it. Now posts are taken quite literally. Perhaps a reflection of society in general. Who knows. Lighten up. I mean "no one is dying"- Jason Kidd, 2023.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Because people don't actually read what you're saying anymore. Quick reaction is the name of the game vs nuanced thinking.

But hoping Cuban sells is whistling in the wind. What good does it do to wake up and bitch about it every day? And while he might control Nico, I don't think he's responsible for lineups.

This team has had so many problems this year on the court that to not unanimously blame Kidd is basically just total denial.

When Lincoln reinstated McClellan to run the Union army after multiple failures...his reasoning was "We must use the pieces we have."

Kidd has not properly or wisely used the pieces he has. Yes, the team needs upgrades, but there were fairly simple things he could have done that could have averted where we are now.

Playing Bullock 30mpg allowing him to take two and a half months off production-wise while shitting on Wood is a prime example of that.

If you don't hold a "defensive" player accountable, then why would they ever feel the need to play defense?

If we are on the topic of reading, here's what I added so as not to implicate SMC: "That's not necessarily for you, but it sure does seem some here want to point one finger for this cluster." edit: thanks for proving that, btw!

I only included Cuban given his involvement on decisions. I'm not dumb, he's going nowhere. The only hope, at least in the short term, is that both he and Nico learned their lessons the hard way this season.

Putting 100% blame on Kidd isn't just being in denial, it's not accurate and statically impossible lol. He gets his fair share, but as I stated before, Cuban and FO decisions and roster construction gets the majority of blame for me.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

I am glad you laughed. It was meant to be a joke. It amazes me how the sense of humor on this board has deteriorated to the point where everything is taken seriously. We used to be able to be sarcastic, joke around, and everyone seemed to get it. Now posts are taken quite literally. Perhaps a reflection of society in general. Who knows. Lighten up. I mean "no one is dying"- Jason Kidd, 2023.

Your post was completely understood as sarcasm lol I just couldn't add one of these emoji things for some reason. I repped you for your troubles

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Oh good, Cuban is talking to the media....

-Says the failures of this season is his fault.
-Never had the chance to sign Brunson to that 56 million dollar rumor
-Says they lost Brunson once the parents got involved
-Wants to keep Kyrie

Oh and Jason Kidd is the coaching going forward.

[EricaLubarsky]

Must lose

[EricaLubarsky]

Kings have a good front court

Mavs have not one forward that would be second string on another team

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kidd did not coach the team today. He had a medical appointment.

A cognitive assessment? One can only hope. My favorite recent Kiddism was calling the timeout to kill our fastbreak in the 4th. Can?t remember the team. Priceless.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Oh good, Cuban is talking to the media....

-Says the failures of this season is his fault.
-Never had the chance to sign Brunson to that 56 million dollar rumor
-Says they lost Brunson once the parents got involved
-Wants to keep Kyrie

Oh and Jason Kidd is the coaching going forward.

Cuban talking to the media? What could possibly go wrong?!

[JTmoney2424]

3 more offensive rebounds in 6 minutes.