With the #3 pick (!) in the 2018 draft, the Mavs get Luka Doncic

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Luka is shitting all over the "soft Euro" tag... I'm fine with it, especially in the preseason.

I hope the standing up for themselves continues into the season as long as they are smart about it. Most NBA guys are faux tough guys so there is rarely actual fighting.

[j0Shi]

I was really surprised that the Mavs weren't pushing the ball more against the Wizards. Watching the Hawks and Trae putting up 38 I got confirmed that this is what Luka should do. He is a magician in every situation and put up 17 in 10 iso possessions, but these are "hard" points nonetheless. Trae in the meantime put up 38 and 9 effortless because a good chunk came in transition.

Sure Trae is a better pure shooter, but I felt he was getting easier points by simply speeding up the game.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I was really surprised that the Mavs weren't pushing the ball more against the Wizards. Watching the Hawks and Trae putting up 38 I got confirmed that this is what Luka should do. He is a magician in every situation and put up 17 in 10 iso possessions, but these are "hard" points nonetheless. Trae in the meantime put up 38 and 9 effortless because a good chunk came in transition.

Sure Trae is a better pure shooter, but I felt he was getting easier points by simply speeding up the game.

Why are we still talking about Trae? Completely different players with completely different rosters.

Luka had 30+ in 3 quarters. I would say the points came easy for him too.

[j0Shi]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Why are we still talking about Trae? Completely different players with completely different rosters.

Luka had 30+ in 3 quarters. I would say the points came easy for him too.

You missed my point. Not about Trae, he just happened to be a good example. Even Luka won't score 1.7 in iso through the season. These are hard possessions even if the best players tend to make it look easy.

[Skywalker]

1. Ayton suspended 25 games
2. Bagley out with a broken thumb

....




(knock on fucking wood)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

1. Ayton suspended 25 games

The Suns are such a trash organization.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think Luka's lack of speed and athleticism tend to seem "hard" but if he is comfortable doing it and scores, oh well.

The fact is that many of those half court, iso drives for him were layups...the highest percentage shot in the game.

And the Hawks got the Pistons off of the 2nd night of a back to back. Pistons starting back court is trash.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Has a paltry 32.84 PER through two games. Come on man, you can do better than that!

[Bryan_Wilson]

It would be higher if he got more than 2 fta's last night.

[dirt_dobber]

Building a Wunderkind: What Phase 2 Looks Like for Luka Doncic
The second-year Mavs guard is already way ahead of the curve, but GM Donnie Nelson and others are still taking steps to lift Luka’s game to the next level .
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1...taps-porzingis

[ChileanMavsFan]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...oncic-trickery

Nice reference to Luka's up and under move, which is crazy effective and amazing to watch.

3. Luka Doncic, faking you out of your shoes
Hypothesis: Doncic has the nastiest, most convincing up-and-under move on Earth.

Most players go into an up-and-under having made up their mind to shoot. They have no Plan B. Doncic digests so much visual information in real time -- and is so smart anticipating where every player is about to be -- he can pivot (literally) into Plans B, C or D:

Numbers alone tell you Doncic is off to a crazy start: 27 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists per game on 47% shooting, including a scorching 58% on 2s. He has almost excised long 2s in favor of shots at the rim and 3s.

The eye test tells you even more. Doncic is thinking two steps ahead of everyone. His trademark pass as a rookie was probably the LeBron-style crosscourt laser to corner shooters. Already this season, he has shown mastery of other tricky dishes that reveal themselves -- only for a flash, and only to the very best passers -- in the run of play.

[Underdog]

Lowe: Ten NBA things I like and don't like, including Luka Doncic trickery
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...oncic-trickery

Hypothesis: Doncic has the nastiest, most convincing up-and-under move on Earth.

[dirt_dobber]

Rebounding Wings Are the NBA’s Next Market Inefficiency
Luka Doncic’s offensive wizardry is well-known by now, but his ability to crash the boards like a big man has quietly been the key to the Mavericks’ resurgence this season—and a lesson for the rest of the league on how to fill out your lineup
By Rob Mahoney
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1...-kawhi-leonard

There is a moment after a shot draws iron when the ball hangs in the air and belongs to no one—when the defense has not yet succeeded and the offense has not yet failed. Schrödinger’s cat both lives and dies, at least until some workaday big boxes his man out and puts an end to it.

Rebounding is so often the game’s great afterthought, regarded as either a natural byproduct or a foregone conclusion. It is a simple act in a sport of creativity and high strategy. Yet in the push toward positionless basketball, teams skewing smaller and smaller have to find their own ways to replicate what traditional power forwards and centers have been doing ably for decades. And for that, they should look to Luka Doncic.

Put aside, for a moment, all the charms and returns of Doncic as a playmaker. (And holy hell, are they considerable.) In the course of orchestrating one of the best offenses in the league, the 20-year-old superstar has come, almost incidentally, to represent an entirely different sort of tactical advantage. Doncic isn’t only the Mavericks’ top scorer and assist leader; he also ranks as the team’s most prolific rebounder, a contribution that provides the rest of the roster greater flexibility. In the same way that running the offense through Doncic allows Dallas to use limited creators like Seth Curry and Delon Wright as nominal point guards, the scale of Doncic’s rebounding makes room for a rebounding-challenged center like Kristaps Porzingis.

Mavs coach Rick Carlisle has tried eight different starting lineups in the first 12 games of the season, in large part because he can. With the need for defensive rebounding somewhat alleviated, the Mavs (7-5) have been able to style their starters as a matchup demands. Of late, they’ve oscillated between using Maxi Kleber, a solid stretch big, and Dwight Powell, a dedicated rim-runner, as their frontcourt counterpart to Porzingis in the starting lineup. Neither is much of a rebounder. Dallas also has the option—one it exercised earlier this season in a track meet against the Pelicans—to roll out Dorian Finney-Smith, a 6-foot-7 forward, as a sort of big. Or was it Doncic, who pulled down a team-high 10 rebounds in that game, who filled the role of a power forward while running point and matching up as a wing?

Attempting to understand a positionless game in such formulaic terms can be dizzying, if not altogether counterproductive. What has always mattered most is function; so long as a team has all of the raw materials it needs to build cogent systems, the structure itself is entirely negotiable. Lineup management in the modern NBA boils down to one question: How do we get—and keep—our best offensive players on the floor? Maybe too many of a team’s offensive threats are smaller guards, so one is sent to the bench in favor of a bigger wing. There could be a redundancy in skill set or a need to match up with a particular opponent, leading to another change. Games are dictated along the lines of these trade-offs.

This is why rebounding wings, like Doncic, are the next great inefficiency of the NBA marketplace. One of the most powerful things a player can do on a basketball court is change the parameters of who plays. The very presence of James Harden, for example, might keep an opponent from relying on a lumbering center—knowing full well their 7-footer could end up diced and sautéed. A player like Doncic, on the other hand, can make pipe-dream lineups more practical. What if you could space the floor without making concessions on the glass? What if you could work another playmaker into the mix without giving an opponent second chances? An elite rebounding wing makes it all possible.

The 10.7 rebounds Doncic grabs on a nightly basis are so much more than triple-double filler. Following an opponent’s missed shot, Doncic grabs a greater share of rebounds than nearly any perimeter player in the league—more than centers like Nikola Jokic and Steven Adams, according to data from Cleaning the Glass. For that matter, Doncic is on track to have one of the best defensive rebounding seasons ever for a perimeter player. You can see a similar effect on Clippers lineups with Kawhi Leonard or Heat lineups featuring Justise Winslow. Both hit the boards with force, and in doing so give their teams the freedom to bring in more shooters or perimeter defenders. The same concept applies, to varying extents, with the Pelicans’ Josh Hart, the Celtics’ Jaylen Brown, or even an oversized point guard like the Spurs’ Dejounte Murray. The shifting demographics of the NBA have made rebounding wings even more beneficial. With fewer trees towering above the canopy, a greater number fall to these bigger wings.

Perimeter players of that size—and specifically those who can create their own shot like Doncic and Leonard—are already understood to be among the most valuable in the league. Guards can be trapped and smothered. Bigs can be swarmed and delayed. Taller wing players aren’t immune to good defense, though the best of them have the skill set and size to withstand it. The added dimension of rebounding only runs up the score. As if it weren’t enough that so few players are both big enough and quick enough to check Doncic or Leonard individually, defenders also have to contend with the space and support of the lineups their rebounding makes possible.

The elegance of this particular solution is that it comes at the problem sideways. Dallas goes out of its way to protect Doncic on defense, typically assigning him to chaperone a standstill shooter in the corner. Yet when Doncic starts from that physical space, there isn’t much an opposing team can do to keep him off the glass. No other guard or wing puts themselves in position to compete for as many defensive rebounds as Doncic does, according to the NBA’s player tracking data. It’s a perfect storm of size and instincts—all of which means that a defender as shaky as Doncic can still play an outsized role in closing defensive possessions, and that a Mavericks team with so few above-average rebounders can manage well enough to get by.

This is just one slice of the complicated interplay between Doncic and Porzingis, two curiously talented players still in their first month of understanding who they are as teammates. This particular dynamic works regardless because it speaks to the logic of the sport. Winning in basketball is an exercise in bringing the game to balance. Once bigs started floating outside to shoot and make plays, it was only a matter of time before perimeter players began to compensate for what bigs ordinarily provided. The game has changed over the last five years—toward space, toward skill, and toward speed. Next comes the reality of an entire league moving in the same general direction, changing both the style of the game and the way that players contribute. What starts as a ripple can become the new wave.

[sefant77]

First time in my life i wanna thank the idiots on the major networks (SAS,Bayless etc etc) who pre draft played draft experts and pushed the stupid narrative of the unathletic white boy, who is for sure going to struggle against real NBA defenses. Talking out of their asses with not knowing anything about european basketball.

Im pretty sure thats the reason why he fell to #3 because the moronic other FOs paid too much attention to this crap and chickened out. Specially the Kings

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by sefant77

First time in my life i wanna thank the idiots on the major networks (SAS,Bayless etc etc) who pre draft played draft experts and pushed the stupid narrative of the unathletic white boy, who is for sure going to struggle against real NBA defenses. Talking out of their asses with not knowing anything about european basketball.

Im pretty sure thats the reason why he fell to #3 because the moronic other FOs paid too much attention to this crap and chickened out. Specially the Kings

So the moral of your post is thank god for ignorance then right?!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So the moral of your post is thank god for ignorance then right?!

Specifically thank god for the ignorance of the 4 teams who had draft positions higher than the Mavs that year.

[sefant77]

I never thought the first season without Dirk would be that easy....

He really is the perfect successor, also characterwise

[Thespiralgoeson]

For fun-

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/08/10/lu...rid-eurobasket

Luka Doncic: Europe's Next Big Thing
Want to know more about Luka Doncic, Europe's next big thing? Read these 10 things about the NBA prospect.

JEREMY WOO AUG 10, 2017

The NBA draft conversation runs wall-to-wall for 12 months a year, so the odds are good that you’ve heard about Luka Doncic by now. But have you heard enough about him? Real Madrid’s teenage sensation is by all accounts the best European prospect in years. And in these murky prospect waters, where there’s a lofty label, there’s a hyperbolic one just around the corner. Those sorts of conversations and overreactions can be difficult to parse through even for American players. But Doncic is already in conversations for the No. 1 pick in next year’s draft, and it’s past time for a little old-fashioned due diligence.

As such, The Crossover reached out to NBA scouts, European scouts and Euroleague opponents, pored over game tape, and did the legwork for you. Here’s the early lowdown, in 10 neat segments.

1. Luka Doncic is no international man of mystery
He’s already played more meaningful minutes that have been televised, archived and analyzed than any player theoretically eligible for next year’s draft. Just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it’s not there. If Doncic is mysterious, so were both World Wars, impressionism and the day-to-day affairs of the Pope. Those with subscriptions can watch his full games archived online, those without can watch breakdowns on YouTube, and those who work for NBA teams can go and see him play in Madrid at their leisure. Point being, alluding to Doncic with any sense of enigma, which is bound to happen over the next 11 months or so, is mostly show and tell.

2. How Doncic made his name
Doncic will almost surely enter next year’s draft, in which he will then hear his name called among the first handful of players, as perhaps the most accomplished basketball-playing European teenager ever. Any draft cycle will always bring unfair exaggerations and comparisons upon prospects from any country, university or planet, but Doncic, born in Slovenia, has done unprecedented things on the court at just 18 years old. That much is more or less a fact.

In April 2015, Doncic made his first-team debut for Real Madrid and was the youngest player ever to do that. He was two months past his 16th birthday. Madrid doesn’t trot out Ronaldos or Bales on the basketball side, but nearly every player in its rotation has spent time in the NBA, played at an elite level internationally or both. He was brought along slowly, found ways to be productive, and last season was handed the keys to the offense whenever he was on the floor, playing roughly 20 minutes per game. Per 40, he averaged 15.7 points, 8.5 assists and nine rebounds in Euroleague play. He posted similar numbers in Spain’s ACB and shot 44% from the floor and 33% from three across competitions. He wasn’t just one of their top guys—at times he was their best guy on the floor.

3. Looking into Doncic's numbers
Chewing on Doncic’s numbers is actually more fun with context. Most of the European prospects that wind up in annual draft discussions are cutting their teeth on teams that traditionally play with and develop youth. A lot of Adriatic League teams do this, and clubs in other countries do too. Doncic is already a crucial part of a perennial Euroleague contender, as the lead ball-handler and playmaker alongside NBA-caliber talent. On his best nights, he’s on triple-double watch. It’s uncharted territory.

The most recent analog here is Dario Saric, and that’s purely in the “young star competing at a high European level” sense. When Saric was 18 he was productive and starring for Cibona, but he didn’t taste Euroleague action until joining Anadolu Efes two seasons later, after he’d been drafted. Saric and Doncic are skilled playmakers but positionally apples and oranges, so the direct comparison isn’t especially helpful. Ricky Rubio will be another name in this conversation, but he didn’t taste Europe’s top competition until he was 19 and wasn’t nearly as efficient a scorer. I’m comfortable asserting that in a vacuum, not a single American kid his age could swing games, much less earn a coach’s trust at that level right now. When you think about the overall age curve, and that Doncic was starting to produce like this at 17, it’s clear this is a different animal entirely.

4. What does this look like on the court?
Well, anyone can be an All-Star with a good video editor, but indulge in this YouTube mix as an appetizer, for now. You’ll at least see the impressive vision, comfortable set shot and body control and touch around the basket. That said, keep in mind that Doncic does miss in real life.


So, there will be understandably high levels of hype this season. What’s missing in these seven minutes of Doncic is the level of craft to his game and the amount of responsibility he successfully handled last season. Scouts rave about his combination of skill level and mental makeup. He’s always under control, can handle heavy ball pressure and his turnovers are typically the aggressive kind, which is acceptable for a young kid. He’s an active rebounder, he anticipates well on defense, and he’s athletic enough to make a highlight dunk or block from time to time.

Doncic understands how to create space using his body and with ball screens. He’s also 6’7”, which lets him see over defenses, keep his defender on his hip once he gets a step toward the basket and buys time for the play to unfold. Doncic throws pinpoint passes off the bounce to the corners and wings, makes teammates better and looks great doing it. He’s physically pretty mature, and so is his game. There just aren’t many legitimately huge playmakers this good at this age.

5. What's the catch?
This all sounds too good to be true, so what’s the catch? To be fair, any player can be nitpicked to death. For all his special qualities, the questions with Doncic will center around whether or not he can be a full-time lead guard. Let’s preface this with the caveat that he’s 18, but right now if he’s not handling the ball, he doesn’t really have a position yet. He essentially plays at two speeds right now: a measured halfcourt playmaking cadence, and pushing all-out on the break. He’s an outstanding ball-handler, but his size and high center of gravity precludes him at times from beating guards in isolation.

Right now, Doncic doesn’t have the requisite shiftiness to consistently take NBA-caliber athletes off the dribble, and that could be a problem when longer defenders are inevitably marking him. He needs those in-between gears to take over an NBA game as a passer—and he’s so young that it’s not impossible for him to get there. Doncic isn’t a poor defensive player himself, but will have to slide down a position or two when he gets over here in order to compensate for his foot speed. Madrid often switched him onto the screener to avoid matchup issues, and with less space and fewer elite athletes to worry about in the European game, Doncic got by just fine on that end. He’s still not that long or explosive. He’s well-built and should still get physically stronger, but the game will speed up and get tougher.

That said, these are hypothetical problems and Doncic clearly has the smarts and passing chops to play point guard. These questions are akin to those many had about Ben Simmons as a point guard two years ago. Whatever team drafts Doncic will want to do so with an eye toward empowering him to run the show. Secondary playmaker status seems like a safe floor, but if Doncic features more as a two-guard, his gifts will be more difficult to maximize. He’s an unselfish, visionary passer, not a takeover-type scorer, and in his best case scenario would be able to run the show. If you’re drafting in the top five, those are the risks and potential rewards you consider.

6. What Doncic game should you watch?
If you want to watch one game, watch Real Madrid against Galatasaray from back in March. Doncic enters as a sub in the first quarter, posts five points, five rebounds and four assists in about 10 minutes and gives his team a boost. He comes back in with three and a half minutes left in the third quarter, his team trailing by 16. Doncic immediately starts to dictate the pace of play and never leaves the game from there. Madrid comes back but loses by three, and he finishes as a plus-19 with a 13/8/8 line on 5/8 shooting. Oh, and he had turned 18 literally two days earlier.

[youtube:https://youtu.be/vU0GxcDmUFg]

7. What can Doncic be in the NBA?
I hate comparisons, but for comparison’s sake, let’s consider a best, middle and worst case from a production and role standpoint. If Doncic proves a viable lead ball-handler and equally capable off it as a shooter, developing his handle to where he can shift gears and dissect defenses, he could conceivably be a Gordon Hayward-type player who makes his teammates better and chips in all over the stat sheet. If his athleticism precludes him from doing what he does at a prolific level, he could end up in Hedo Turkoglu territory—and Turkoglu’s best few seasons with the Magic were certainly nothing to sneeze at.

He profiles as a more natural playmaker and athlete, so there’s certainly upside to that outcome. And if it all breaks bad, well, we’ve seen what happens to oversized passers who struggle with change of speed and shot creation against NBA defense. That said, I’m willing to bet he winds up better than say, Kyle Anderson. When Doncic is dominating the league in five years, please don’t screenshot this and tweet it at me.

Come at LeBron James, You Best Not Miss

8. Where does he fit in the upcoming draft class?
Well, it’s totally fair that Doncic is being mentioned in the conversation for the No. 1 pick. He’s earned it. He won’t fall far. It’s only August, but as best I can discern, it will still be difficult for a team to draft him ahead of say, a successfully reclassified Marvin Bagley. Right now I’d wager on Bagley going first, given he’s a fluid athlete who essentially has every skill you want in a modern big man. Porter Jr. might be the best nearly 7-foot true shooter we’ve seen since Kevin Durant, so he has that going for him. DeAndre Ayton and Mohamed Bamba are both exceptional prospects. Next year’s draft may not be as deep as the last one, but keep in mind there’s a lot of talent at the top.

Doncic will have every chance to make his case, and additional responsibility for his club given the recent news that Real Madrid backcourt-mate and reigning EuroLeague MVP (and longtime Houston Rockets stash) Sergio Llull tore his ACL playing for Spain.

9. Who is Luka Doncic?
We got this far without delving into Doncic’s personality, which has been closely guarded to date. Doncic signed with agent Bill Duffy earlier this year and has largely been kept from doing interviews, given that, you know, he was 17. As the draft approaches, that’s sure to change to some degree. Doncic is by and large regarded as a good-natured, humble player who benefitted from the fact his father had a long professional career in Europe.

Some brief Twitter stalking reveals that he follows a ton of soccer players, a ton of basketball players, Conor McGregor, Ariana Grande, Call of Duty, Game of Thrones, legendary New York sneaker store Flight Club and an account called “Best Earth Pics” that upon investigation is actually really great.

10. Eurobasket is next
Next on the docket for Doncic is this year’s Eurobasket tournament (the European Championships, for the unindoctrinated). This summer marks his maiden voyage with the Slovenian senior national team, after some speculation he’d play for Spain. His teammates will include Goran Dragic, Zoran Dragic, and Real Madrid co-star Anthony Randolph. Yes, that Anthony Randolph is now a naturalized Slovenian.

Those games begin August 31 when Slovenia plays Poland, and many NBA scouts will be laying eyes on Doncic in person for the first time. The games will be streamed online, so you can pass judgment with your own eyes and enjoy meaningful summer basketball. To be fair, Rocket scientists and scientologists alike can already tell Doncic is pretty special. But if all goes according to plan, it only gets better from here. Is your team tanking yet?

BY JEREMY WOO

[Underdog]

Luka's averaging 28.5 pts, 10.7 reb, 9.1 ast

Giannis last year MVP season: 27.7 pts, 12.5 reb, 5.9 ast

[EricaLubarsky]

It is barely starting to dawn on me just how lucky the Mavs got.

It basically never happens that a team goes from having a player like Dirk to having a player like Doncic. Usually, it's 5-20 years waiting for the next superstar.

I know we've missed the playoffs and it's been a little rough for a few years, but we legitimately got Doncic while Dirk was still in the league.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It is barely starting to dawn on me just how lucky the Mavs got.

It basically never happens that a team goes from having a player like Dirk to having a player like Doncic. Usually, it's 5-20 years waiting for the next superstar.

I know we've missed the playoffs and it's been a little rough for a few years, but we legitimately got Doncic while Dirk was still in the league.

Yea, I mentioned this in the GDT/ Something special about this. Obviously has something to do with Donnie, scouts and mbt but it's like there is an old basketball spirit that watches over this city. The common denominator is Cuban and the Nelsons.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It is barely starting to dawn on me just how lucky the Mavs got.

It basically never happens that a team goes from having a player like Dirk to having a player like Doncic. Usually, it's 5-20 years waiting for the next superstar.

I know we've missed the playoffs and it's been a little rough for a few years, but we legitimately got Doncic while Dirk was still in the league.

Yeah, the closest comparison I can think of is the Spurs landing Duncan at the end of Robinson's career.

[endrity]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, the closest comparison I can think of is the Spurs landing Duncan at the end of Robinson's career.

I have thought of that ever since last year pretty much. The Spurs are now in risk of missing the playoffs for the first time since the year before they selected Duncan, but more than that, they are looking at the first prolonged rebuild in their franchise in what seems like more than 30 years without a clear plan on how to get the next one. They essentially went from Gervin to Robinson, to Duncan, to Kawhi seamlessly. And I am not sure they will be in a position to select the next one in the next couple of years.

It wasn't quite as smooth for the Mavs, but it's pretty damn close.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, the closest comparison I can think of is the Spurs landing Duncan at the end of Robinson's career.

They didnt "land" him, they blatantly shut down a healthy Robinson and got rewarded for their bullshit

[sefant77]

Its a late reward for Cuban screwing up the Giannis draft and wasting Dirks last years

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Its a late reward for Cuban screwing up the Giannis draft and wasting Dirks last years

Meh, I prefer Luka over Giannis anyway... even if I had to endure Messley for a few years.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Meh, I prefer Luka over Giannis anyway... even if I had to endure Messley for a few years.

He may be the one guy that I'd take right now over Luka if I were starting a team..

[BPo001]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1...ns-mike-conley

Short article on Luka’s historical start this season

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BPo001

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/1...ns-mike-conley

Short article on Luka’s historical start this season

10/10

[Skywalker]

Also from the ringer, Simmons latest podcast with Marc Stein. First 35 min or so are just Luka talk basically

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanOPz__uoY

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Also from the ringer, Simmons latest podcast with Marc Stein. First 35 min or so are just Luka talk basically

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanOPz__uoY

Just came on here to post that. Listening to it now. I love listening to Stein.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Just came on here to post that. Listening to it now. I love listening to Stein.

I love how Simmons has just gushed over Luka from day 1. Even before he played one minute in the NBA, Simmons was talking about how Luka was going to be a superstar, and how crazy the other 4 teams were for passing on him.

Also, to hear him compare Luka to Bird is just awesome, considering Simmons is a mega Celtics homer.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Every NBA legend needs a nickname. Can Luka's nickname for the rest of his career be "bad motherf*cker?" Please?

[turin]

Has there ever been a league MVP who wasn't at least an All-Star the year prior to winning? Just curious.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

Has there ever been a league MVP who wasn't at least an All-Star the year prior to winning? Just curious.

Wilt and Wes Unseld were both MVP in their rookie seasons. Other than that, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Nash missed the all-star team in 04, but he was already a two-time all-star before that, so I don't think that counts.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Wilt and Wes Unseld were both MVP in their rookie seasons. Other than that, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Nash missed the all-star team in 04, but he was already a two-time all-star before that, so I don't think that counts.

I did not know that. Thanks.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Nice piece from MacMahon about RC and Luka. It never occurred to me until just now, but even though Carlisle is one of the most experienced coaches in the league, this is a first for him. He's never coached a young superstar. Dirk was already a decade into his career when RC got here. And those teams he coached in Detroit and Indiana were mostly veterans too. A few nice young players like Tayshaun Prince and Jermaine O'neal, but never a superstar even close to Luka's level. I best this is quite an adjustment for him. But he's not stupid. He knows Luka is the Mavs' future and present, and if he can't make it work with Luka it's on him.

How Rick Carlisle learned to stop worrying and love Luka Doncic
Nov 20, 2019
Tim MacMahon

Luka Doncic crosses the half-court line and surveys the defense, setting up a high ball screen on the right wing by using a nifty crossover and hesitation dribble to leave the defender on his heels.

Time for a highlight.

It is Nov. 11 and the Dallas Mavericks are trailing by five points late in the first quarter against the 7-1 Boston Celtics. With 3:05 left in the frame, Doncic, who already has seven points on 2-of-5 shooting, drives into the teeth of the defense. He fakes a pass to Dorian Finney-Smith, who is wide open in the right corner because his defender had to help on Doncic.

Then Doncic pirouettes off his left foot and throws a blind, one-handed -- backward -- pass over his right shoulder to Justin Jackson, who is camped out in the left corner. It's the kind of moment that will make any crowd, home or away, buzz with delight.

Just one problem: The no-look heave is several feet off target, forcing Jackson to lunge over the baseline to save the ball from flying into the stands.

It ends up being a breathtaking ... turnover.

It's the kind of play that can test the patience of a no-nonsense coach. It's also the kind of play a coach has to live with when he has a young star eager to push the limits of his creative potential.

As the next few seconds unfold in front of him, Dallas head coach Rick Carlisle keeps his hands to his side, leaning slightly to his right as Jackson attempts the save, apparently hoping a little body English will help the ball land in a Maverick's hands.

No scowl, no snarl, no screaming.

Carlisle calmly calls timeout after the Celtics score to discuss strategy, rather than confronting his young star.

"Special players like this need to be trusted," Carlisle says.

But it wasn't always so easy.


Rick Carlisle is already comparing Luka Doncic to some of the great playmakers: "Guys like Doncic, Bird, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson -- sometimes they get bored and they want to get into a creative state and do some things to kind of break up the monotony." Sean Berry/NBAE via Getty Images
Consider Nov. 24, 2018: It was the first time the then-rookie Doncic had faced the Celtics. Doncic had delivered a few spectacular minutes to open the game, hitting a 3-pointer and delivering three dimes, each one prettier than the last, to help Dallas take an early lead at home.

Then the kid had gotten a little greedy, trying to thread the needle to get the ball to a teammate on a backdoor cut into traffic. The result: a turnover and a transition 3 for the Celtics seconds later.

Carlisle had responded by angrily calling timeout, stomping toward Doncic with arms raised and yelling at the rookie about being careless with the ball. Doncic had barked back at Carlisle without breaking stride while walking to the bench.

It was a moment that had illustrated the occasionally tense dynamic between a championship-caliber coach with a reputation for being controlling and a phenom who had arrived in the NBA as the most accomplished teenage prospect ever, having won titles and MVPs at the highest levels of European hoops.

"Luka just came from winning a championship and expected to win," Mavs owner Mark Cuban said. "That wasn't so much barking at Rick as it was frustration that we were losing. He had never lost before.

"When you're winning and you're becoming a better team and you're on that upswing, everybody's attitude is different. When you're frustrated from losing, nobody likes it. Nobody's happy, and it's difficult on everybody. It was just a different set of circumstances that I'm glad are behind us."

Doncic is blossoming into one of the league's best players, producing unprecedented numbers for a player so young. He ranks fourth in the NBA in scoring (29.5 per game), second in assists (9.3) and 10th in rebounding (10.7) for the 8-5 Mavs, who appear to have a legitimate chance to make the leap from the lottery to the playoffs.

But sources around the league, and even some within the Mavs organization, have questioned whether the Doncic-Carlisle dynamic -- two brilliant basketball minds with a four-decade age gap -- can develop into a successful long-term partnership.

"A great player needs a leash," said former Mavs director of player development Mike Procopio, a sounding board for Doncic during his rookie season. "I don't think it was a toxic thing by any stretch, but it was just a young player wanting more and a coach who wasn't used to doing that with a young player.

"For the development of a great player this young, the best thing they can do is make mistakes and grow from those mistakes. You can't freak out over every mistake. Rick understands that. Rick is intelligent.

"Rick knows this kid is the future of that organization. He can't get in the way of that."

It's no secret that Carlisle is especially tough on point guards -- the position that the 6-foot-7 Slovenian now plays full time after starting his Dallas career as a playmaking forward.

The point guard position has been a revolving door in Dallas since the departure of Jason Kidd, who helped guide the Mavs to the 2010-11 NBA title after Carlisle gave him the keys to run the offense. The Mavs' front office twice acquired point guards it hoped would be franchise centerpieces, but Carlisle's relationships with Rajon Rondo and Dennis Smith Jr. deteriorated quickly, and their tenures in Dallas were ultimately brief and disappointing.

"When we had people here who didn't think they needed to learn anything, that's when we'd run into conflicts," Cuban said. "Luka is a sponge, on the court and off."

Another factor: Carlisle didn't believe in Rondo or Smith. Sources say Carlisle expressed concern about Rondo's fit before the Mavs traded for him, and he had soured on Smith by the All-Star break of the lottery pick's rookie season.

Carlisle, though, considers Doncic to be a legend in the making, declaring on media day this year, "I wouldn't trade him for anybody in the league."

"Rick knows this kid is the future of that organization. He can't get in the way of that."
Former Mavs director of player development Mike Procopio
He often tells Doncic stories about Larry Bird, who Carlisle played with in Boston and coached under with the Indiana Pacers, because that's the kind of company the coach believes Doncic is destined to join. And Carlisle vows not to make the mistake of micromanaging that kind of rare talent.

"Guys like Doncic, Bird, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson -- sometimes they get bored and they want to get into a creative state and do some things to kind of break up the monotony," Carlisle said. "But the important thing is to understand that there's a time and place for everything. The most important thing is not to compromise your opportunity to win.

"I give him the trust to figure those things out."

That kind of trust doesn't come easily from Carlisle. But players like Doncic don't come along often. Those precious few need freedom and their coach's full support.

"You have to," Carlisle said, repeating himself for emphasis. "You have to."

Opposing scouts and coaches widely consider Carlisle to be among the league's elite offensive playcallers. Ask Carlisle, though, and he insists that he would prefer to never call plays.

"Look," Carlisle said, "when we won the championship, we didn't call anything."

That's because Carlisle trusted Kidd, a basketball savant in his 16th NBA season at the time, to orchestrate the offense. Carlisle sees similar savvy in Doncic, who began playing professionally for Real Madrid at the ripe age of 15.

"I always ask him, 'What do you want to run?'" Doncic said of his coach. "During the game, he lets me call the plays. It's good. It lets the game go and play more with pace. I think it's the best basketball to play."

Doncic is off to an MVP-worthy start in his second NBA season: 29.5 points, 9.3 assists and 10.7 rebounds per game. Glenn James/NBAE via Getty Images
Doncic certainly hasn't given Carlisle any reason to tighten up the reins. The Mavs rank second in the league in offensive efficiency (112.6 points per game) despite Kristaps Porzingis' inconsistency coming off a 20-month layoff and the roster's lack of proven firepower beyond the two young franchise pillars.

"As Luka demonstrates not just that he makes things happen but he can make everyone else better, why would Rick jump in?" Cuban said. "Because that's the ultimate player. When a guy can see the court, see the time and score and see who's on the court on both teams and know what to do, take the ball.

"But that confirmation only comes from winning."

Doncic, mind you, doesn't have complete playcalling autonomy. There are still games when Carlisle calls a lot of plays, particularly when he feels there are opportunities for the Mavs to exploit that don't require Doncic to dominate the ball.

Sometimes Carlisle responds by quickly twirling his finger. That's not a signal for a play; it's Carlisle's way of telling Doncic to push the pace and attack before the defense can get set.

Scouts consider Doncic a predictable playcaller at this point. He has two pet playcalls, both of which are staples around the NBA: the Mavs' "Push" set that is commonly known as "pistols action," giving Doncic the choice of a dribble handoff or pick-and-roll on the wing; and a high pick-and-roll.

In other words, Doncic is going to call his own number and create. When the Mavs dig deeper into Carlisle's thick playbook, those calls tend to come from the sideline.

"I think they just see it a little bit different," said a Western Conference scout who has watched the Mavs multiple times. "I think they'll get on the same page. It'll take some time. But I think Luka sees things for him more than others.

"It's not like he's trying to ball hog or anything. He just thinks, 'I can take this fool.'"

Off the top of his head, Carlisle can tell you how many followers Doncic has on Instagram. It's three million and counting. And it's a concern for Carlisle.

"Social media has created really an undue pressure on guys like Luka to generate highlights," Carlisle said. "[Fans] want to be seeing stuff every day on their phones."

Doncic delivers those highlights on a regular basis -- 40-foot fastballs diagonally across the court right into the numbers of an open shooter in the corner; perfectly timed lobs just over the hands of helpless defenders; no-look dimes after dribbling behind his back in traffic.

And launching step-back jumpers, often from far beyond the 3-point arc -- smiling and shrugging, in this case, at a trash-talking courtside fan in Boston after swishing a couple.

Luka shows elite vision with behind-the-back dimeLuka Doncic shows off his playmaking skills, whipping a behind-the-back pass to Tim Hardaway Jr. in the corner for an open 3-pointer.

"He's one of those rare players that has not only an amazing imagination for the game but the skill and the ability and the wherewithal to pull it off," Carlisle said.

Even the threat of Doncic's passing frequently leads to fun. His pass fakes have caused several defenders to look like fools, turning their heads or even their whole bodies as he either lays the ball in or dishes to another teammate.

"That's what I do. I like to enjoy the game," Doncic said. "I like to be an entertainer. Sometimes it's good to be, sometimes it's too much. I just like to enjoy playing basketball."

Film sessions with Carlisle, on the other hand, often aren't so fun.

"You're going to be sometimes on video with things you don't want to see," Doncic said with a shrug. "Sometimes it's good things, sometimes it's bad things. It's good to see bad things; you can learn from them."

There were several team film sessions last season when Carlisle was especially harsh on Doncic, drilling him for mistakes in front of his teammates. According to others in the room, Doncic would just listen and take the criticism, but there were times when he seemed uncomfortable, like a student getting scolded by a teacher in front of the class.

"They got to know each other last year," said Mavs veteran point guard J.J. Barea, who has played nine of his 14 NBA seasons for Carlisle and serves as a mentor for Doncic. "This year, they're doing a good job talking to each other. They're attacking it the right way.

"When Coach needs to tell him something, he tells him. He won't stay quiet. But Coach knows the way he needs to talk to him. He does it and they move on."

Through it all, Doncic has earned the respect of Carlisle -- and not just because he is producing the kind of numbers that could land him in the MVP conversation.

The biggest question about Doncic entering the league was whether he would be athletic enough to be a superstar. Carlisle alluded to this on the night the Mavs traded up to draft Doncic, citing conditioning as a developmental opportunity for the Slovenian star. Doncic, who was a doughy 247 pounds when he reported to Dallas the month before his rookie year, is significantly leaner and stronger after a summer in which he cut sugars and breads from his diet and committed to the Mavs' strength and conditioning program.

The physical improvement has been a factor in Doncic's statistical improvement from average to elite as a finisher inside the restricted area (55.7% as a rookie to 64.8% this season, per NBA.com/stats).

Doncic also has displayed a surprising accountability -- twice publicly blaming himself after close losses when he put up big numbers this season:

Doncic criticized himself for not driving the ball more when the Mavs got into the bonus during the fourth quarter of an Oct. 27 home loss to the Portland Trail Blazers when he had 29 points, 12 rebounds and nine assists.

He ripped his own "bad shot selection" after his 38-point, 14-rebound, 10-assist performance in a Nov. 8 home loss to the New York Knicks, specifically for settling for a step-back jumper with one foot on the half-court logo when the Mavs were down three points in the final minute. (Carlisle did not criticize the shot, saying he was comfortable putting the ball in Doncic's hands late and living with his decisions.)

It's all part of the Luka Doncic experience, a thrill ride upon which Carlisle and the Mavericks are completely on board.

"I understand that he's a performer, he's an artist," Carlisle said. "It's important for him to feel that he is out there doing a job to win a game, but also he's an entertainer. I get that. What the great players in history of sport have in common is they can take the understanding of the entertainment side and fit it into the team concept and still make winning the priority.

"There's no doubt in my mind that for Luka Doncic, winning is the No. 1 and most important thing, hands down."

[Skywalker]

Interesting Woj pod about Luka with Mike Procopio and MacMahon https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1197941896120819714

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Interesting Woj pod about Luka with Mike Procopio and MacMahon https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1197941896120819714

What was really overblown was Luka's lack of athleticism, and that was something that was pushed very hard by the "experts" and scouts. Many of us on here, including myself, went along with that as a huge crutch that couldn't work in today's NBA.

Then we saw his first preseason game against China, and that was it. I was completely sold, and the athletic stuff was totally out of whack.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

What was really overblown was Luka's lack of athleticism, and that was something that was pushed very hard by the "experts" and scouts. Many of us on here, including myself, went along with that as a huge crutch that couldn't work in today's NBA.

Then we saw his first preseason game against China, and that was it. I was completely sold, and the athletic stuff was totally out of whack.

I've said from the word go that the athleticism or lack thereof was really overblown. At most, it will probably prevent him from ever being a great defensive player, but other than that, he'll have no problem being a superstar for years to come.

There's been no shortage of phenomenal, all-time great players who didn't have top flight athleticism. The closest comparison physically to Luka is Harden. Harden has never been particularly fast or jumped very high, but he's big and strong. Luka is even bigger and stronger. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, John Stockton, even the legendary Larry Bird... None of these guys were ever extraordinary physical specimens. That's just guards and small forwards. If you expand the list to include big men, then the list balloons to dozens, probably.