Osama Bin Laden is dead.

[92bDad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/wo...-laden.html?hp


That is news without an agenda. Glad to see the politics stayed out of it!!!

Intel from 4 years ago, coupled with events and actions taken on by both administrations as well as even more countless hours and people led to the the final day of Osama Bin Laden.

Congratulations to all the Men and Women who have and continue or will serve, beit military, Intelligence or other forms. The unknown as well as the known.

Let us rejoice in unity at this Most Wanted Criminal being brought to justice and then buried at Sea. No Martyr Shrines, nothing...it's simply over for Bin Laden.

Now Prayers go out to those who fight on as Freedom will always be attacked.

Props to President Obama for making and taking the decision to give the approval and support of his commanders on the ground. Props to President Bush for making and taking the decision to give the approval and support of his commanders on the ground.

Props to both Presidents for recognizing that amidst public and media pressure, GITMO has produced the fruit of intel that ultimately lead to this day.

Credit goes to ALL as the results speak for themselves.

I humble myself and recognize that President Obama played a crucial part in bringing us to this day and for that I am grateful.

[dalmations202]

This official and others briefed reporters on further details on the assault on the compound, which they believe was built five years ago for the specific purpose of hiding bin Laden.
The compound is in Abbottabad, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) north of the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. The city sits in a mountainous region of Pakistan and is not heavily populated. Many of the residents are army personnel.

Said President Obama, "After a firefight, they killed Osama Bin Laden and took custody of his body."

Normally, the U.S. shares its counterterrorism intelligence widely with trusted allies in Britain, Canada, Australia and elsewhere. And the U.S. normally does not carry out ground operations inside Pakistan without collaboration with Pakistani intelligence. But this mission was too important and too secretive.
On April 29, Obama approved an operation to kill bin Laden.

The U.S. team was on the ground for only 40 minutes

Remarkably, Bin Laden was hiding almost under the nose of the Pakistani military, which has a major garrison in Abbottabad and the Pakistani version of West Point.

U.S. officials say Pakistan was not informed in advance of the military operation inside their borders.

President Obama gave the order for a small team of U.S. Navy SEALs in Afghanistan to go in Sunday night Pakistan time, even though bin Laden had never once actually been seen in the compound.

How much BS do I need to read? Quotes above straight from the headlines today.

First -- we illegally entered a foreign country with an assassination squad.
2nd -- I haven't found the exact feet again, but I read the house was less than 1000' from a major garrison in Abbottabad. The house was right outside a major military base.
3rd -- 4 helicopters went in. Only 3 came out, and one was blown up.
4th -- Firefight happened.
5th -- NO response from the military base in Pakistan ---- even though they (Pakistan) had never been notified.
6th -- Body has been verified by several means -- yet in less than a day they sent the body into the sea where no "outside" people could ever interdependently verify the DNA. Why at sea?
7th -- the tip about him being there was given in August of last year -- how many months and yet no one had ever seen him -- no one to verify by sight -- and we still sent 40 men in?????

I am happy if he is really dead. This absolutely stinks of not being the "whole" story, but of being some setup of some sort.

4 helicopters from another country come half way across your country and land very close to a major military base and no response from your military. WOW -- what does that say about the Pakistani military. Either they are just downright awful -- or there is more to this story that told them to stay out of it.

I thought sending assassination squads into foreign countries was illegal. Seems like it is only illegal when it fits our needs.
Funny thing is --- they killed him After the firefight -- not during the firefight.

Why was the body disposed of so quickly, and in such a manner that no future or independent people could do some checking?

Conspiracy theorists will have a Hay Day with this one. It is way to easy to poke holes in the stories that are coming out.

Question is "Do you trust your government to tell you the whole truth?"
Was that really him?
Was it some sort of setup that people were killed, and maybe even Osama's DNA was tested (maybe he gave them some DNA) and they killed a look alike.
How could you find out, if you can't go back to the body and check?

Too many questions IF you believe what you read in the papers.

Love the "feel good" of the stories, but experience tells me that there is more to this story.

[Murphy3]

Wow, so cynical. I cannot imagine what they'd gain by lying about this. Yes, there's more to it than what we know, but I think you've watched JFK a few too many times.

[Big Boy Laroux]

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

First -- we illegally entered a foreign country with an assassination squad.

Technically speaking, correct.

2nd -- I haven't found the exact feet again, but I read the house was less than 1000' from a major garrison in Abbottabad. The house was right outside a major military base.

Also correct.

3rd -- 4 helicopters went in. Only 3 came out, and one was blown up.

Yes, 4-1=3.

4th -- Firefight happened.

Indeed.

5th -- NO response from the military base in Pakistan ---- even though they (Pakistan) had never been notified.

I read somewhere else (I can't remember now) that certain people were - that there was strategic corroboration, but the target - obviously the most important part - remaining solely in US knowledge.

6th -- Body has been verified by several means -- yet in less than a day they sent the body into the sea where no "outside" people could ever interdependently verify the DNA. Why at sea?

Islam dictates that a body should be buried within 24 hours. Secondly, doing it at sea eliminates the possibility of some kind of shrine or some sort. Criticize the reasoning if you want, but that's what the reasoning was, from what I understand.

7th -- the tip about him being there was given in August of last year -- how many months and yet no one had ever seen him -- no one to verify by sight -- and we still sent 40 men in?????

Where did you get 40 men from?

WOW -- what does that say about the Pakistani military. Either they are just downright awful -- or there is more to this story that told them to stay out of it.

A little of column A, a little of column B.

Funny thing is --- they killed him After the firefight -- not during the firefight.

I think you're reading it a little too literally. Always possible he was killed execution-style, but I also read that the chicks in the mansion verified that the body was Osama's. It would make little sense for them to execute some dude after the firefight and then ask who the hell it is.

Why was the body disposed of so quickly, and in such a manner that no future or independent people could do some checking?

Again, Muslim custom. We'll get corpse photos eventually, I'd imagine.

[TripleDipping]

My 2 cents:

This whole thing about finding Bin Laden in a mansion, not a cave, just pisses me off. The Pakistani government knew where Bin Laden was but did not cooperate with US. There is no way that a heavily fortified mcmansion, located just outside of the country's capital, about 8 times bigger than the surrounding residences, not raise any kind of suspicion at all. The decision of not notifying Pakistan prior to the raid was definitely the right call. If I was Obama, I wouldn't even bother telling the PM of Pakistan that Bin Laden had been killed immediately after. I would just let them hear about it like the rest of the world did.

With that said, I remember 9/11/01 like it was yesterday. I will surely remember 5/1/11, the day it was announced that Bin Laden has finally been casted into the chasm of hell. I don't have closure just yet, though. Closure for me will come when I see pictures of this sob's body with a bullet hole in his head.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Hilarious.

[dude1394]

photo at the link. (graphic photo...)
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/034237.html

I think it was naive to bury him at sea before independent corroboration occurred. But as BBL showed......well.....

[alexamenos]

3rd -- 4 helicopters went in. Only 3 came out, and one was blown up.
4th -- Firefight happened.
5th -- NO response from the military base in Pakistan ---- even though they (Pakistan) had never been notified.

This is what I'm wondering about too....

I think it's exceedingly likely that some heavy hitters within Pak's ISI were helping OBL. This is why we didn't (or perhaps couldn't) tell Pak going in. ok so far, but where the heck is the response from Pakistan? I'm thinking what with helicopters and explosions and gunfire and all that right in the heart of a reasonably a fluent and heavily military community, somebody gets on the phone and calls somebody else. It's a long ass way from Islamabad back to the border, so at some point you figure the Paks might scramble a couple of jets or something like that.

Moreover, what's Pak's response today? It kinda has a 'meh' quality to it. Their story is, 'we're of course mildly perturbed by the breach of our sovereignity but we're really happy for you otherwise, in other news...'

I dunno....but I definitely remain open to another possibilty that is far more congruent with Pakistan's reaction: Pakistan did know that the raid was going down, and they probably knew because they tipped us off.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by dude1394

photo at the link. (graphic photo...)
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/034237.html.....

^^^that pic is actually from one of the previous times OBL was killed.

[TripleDipping]

Originally Posted by dude1394

photo at the link. (graphic photo...)
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/034237.html

I think it was naive to bury him at sea before independent corroboration occurred. But as BBL showed......well.....

As much as I'm salivating for photos, that one looks fake.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Moreover, what's Pak's response today? It kinda has a 'meh' quality to it. Their story is, 'we're of course mildly perturbed by the breach of our sovereignity but we're really happy for you otherwise, in other news...'

I dunno....but I definitely remain open to another possibilty that is far more congruent with Pakistan's reaction: Pakistan did know that the raid was going down, and they probably knew because they tipped us off.

I agree. I'm sure they don't want to be a target for Al Qaeda any more than we do. Probably was part of a deal - "we know where he is, but um, don't tell anyone we told you"

[TripleDipping]

A brief video of the interior of the mansion where Bin Laden was found and killed..

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/wo...-laden.html?hp


That is news without an agenda. Glad to see the politics stayed out of it!!!

Intel from 4 years ago, coupled with events and actions taken on by both administrations as well as even more countless hours and people led to the the final day of Osama Bin Laden.

Congratulations to all the Men and Women who have and continue or will serve, beit military, Intelligence or other forms. The unknown as well as the known.

Let us rejoice in unity at this Most Wanted Criminal being brought to justice and then buried at Sea. No Martyr Shrines, nothing...it's simply over for Bin Laden.

Now Prayers go out to those who fight on as Freedom will always be attacked.

Props to President Obama for making and taking the decision to give the approval and support of his commanders on the ground. Props to President Bush for making and taking the decision to give the approval and support of his commanders on the ground.

Props to both Presidents for recognizing that amidst public and media pressure, GITMO has produced the fruit of intel that ultimately lead to this day.

Credit goes to ALL as the results speak for themselves.

I humble myself and recognize that President Obama played a crucial part in bringing us to this day and for that I am grateful.

Thanks for the negative rep and the message, "Can we try to not politicize this...at least not yet?"

Hypocrite much?

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

I agree. I'm sure they don't want to be a target for Al Qaeda any more than we do. Probably was part of a deal - "we know where he is, but um, don't tell anyone we told you"

I think US Government actions will give us a pretty good clue over the next couple of weeks as well.

Barely a week ago it was revealed that the USG regarded the ISI as a terrorist organization... link

Now we've caught OBL staying in a swank mansion in their back yard.

So if the official story is true, would it not be a little prudent for the USG to stop giving Pakistan money to help us fight the war on terror?

[Big Boy Laroux]

also agree - if they were taking money from us, and from Al Qaeda, i'm sure AQ wouldn't be happy to know they sold him out.

Very fishy.

[41creepingdeath]

There is ample reason to feel relief that Osama bin Laden is no longer a threat to the world, and I say that not just because I was among the many congressional staffers told to flee the U.S. Capitol on 9/11. I say that because he was clearly an evil person who celebrated violence against all whom he deemed "enemies" -- and the world needs less of such zealotry, not more.

However, somber relief was not the dominant emotion presented to America when bin Laden’s death was announced. Instead, the Washington press corps -- helped by a wild-eyed throng outside the White House -- insisted that unbridled euphoria is the appropriate response. And in this we see bin Laden’s more enduring victory -- a victory that will unfortunately last far beyond his passing.

For decades, we have held in contempt those who actively celebrate death. When we’ve seen video footage of foreigners cheering terrorist attacks against America, we have ignored their insistence that they are celebrating merely because we have occupied their nations and killed their people. Instead, we have been rightly disgusted -- not only because they are lauding the death of our innocents, but because, more fundamentally, they are celebrating death itself. That latter part had been anathema to a nation built on the presumption that life is an "unalienable right."

But in the years since 9/11, we have begun vaguely mimicking those we say we despise, sometimes celebrating bloodshed against those we see as Bad Guys just as vigorously as our enemies celebrate bloodshed against innocent Americans they (wrongly) deem as Bad Guys. Indeed, an America that once carefully refrained from flaunting gruesome pictures of our victims for fear of engaging in ugly death euphoria now ogles pictures of Uday and Qusay’s corpses, rejoices over images of Saddam Hussein’s hanging and throws a party at news that bin Laden was shot in the head.

This is bin Laden’s lamentable victory: He has changed America’s psyche from one that saw violence as a regrettable-if-sometimes-necessary act into one that finds orgasmic euphoria in news of bloodshed. In other words, he’s helped drag us down into his sick nihilism by making us like too many other bellicose societies in history -- the ones that aggressively cheer on killing, as long as it is the Bad Guy that is being killed.

Again, this isn’t in any way to equate Americans who cheer on bin Laden’s death with, say, those who cheered after 9/11. Bin Laden was a mass murderer who had punishment coming to him, while the 9/11 victims were innocent civilians whose deaths are an unspeakable tragedy. Likewise, this isn’t to say that we should feel nothing at bin Laden’s neutralization, or that the announcement last night isn't cause for any positive feeling at all -- it most certainly is.

But it is to say that our reaction to the news last night should be the kind often exhibited by victims’ families at a perpetrator’s lethal injection -- a reaction typically marked by both muted relief but also by sadness over the fact that the perpetrators’ innocent victims are gone forever, the fact that the perpetrator's death cannot change the past, and the fact that our world continues to produce such monstrous perpetrators in the first place.

When we lose the sadness part -- when all we do is happily scream "USA! USA! USA!” at news of yet more killing in a now unending back-and-forth war -- it’s a sign we may be inadvertently letting the monsters win.

Source: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w..._chants_of_usa

Just my 2 cents.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I think US Government actions will give us a pretty good clue over the next couple of weeks as well.

Barely a week ago it was revealed that the USG regarded the ISI as a terrorist organization... link

Now we've caught OBL staying in a swank mansion in their back yard.

So if the official story is true, would it not be a little prudent for the USG to stop giving Pakistan money to help us fight the war on terror?

wiki leaks released a lot of very interesting documents about the whole Pakistan situation. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out between leaked wiki documents and where OBL was actually found and how the operation was handled. Really looks like there were at least a few people involved in keeping him hidden and a lot more people with questionable motives.

Im not saying OBL had a lot of supporters there, but Pakistan had an interest in keeping OBL alive because it meant continued financial gain and the continued US presence along the border weeding out Al Qaida and Taliban militants. We already saw that Pakistani leadership was funneling money and making friends with Al Qaida even as they supposedly helped the US with military intelligence and cooperation.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Wow, so cynical. I cannot imagine what they'd gain by lying about this. Yes, there's more to it than what we know, but I think you've watched JFK a few too many times.

Na, just learned a little from Panama in '89.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Im not saying OBL had a lot of supporters there,...

fwiw, it's probably fair to say that OBL had a lot of support over there. During the build-up to Iraq War 2.0, Osama's popularity in Pakistan was through the roof.

check out this article.

The United States says it didn't share intelligence with or a give a heads-up to Pakistan about the planned raid on the compound where U.S. military personnel in a raid with helicopters killed Osama bin Laden.

"We shared our intelligence on this bin Laden compound with no other country, including Pakistan," a senior U.S. administration official told CNN.

versus

Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Pakistan's high commissioner to the United Kingdom, told CNN Pakistan knew the operation was going to happen but he was unclear when it was informed about it....One Pakistani official told CNN on Monday that the operation was American, and that Pakistan "assisted only in terms of authorization of the helicopter flights in our airspace." He asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak about the issue.

somebody is lying.

[DirkFTW]

^need to fix the first sentence =)

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Na, just learned a little from Panama in '89.

For me it was largely the Venezuelan coup in 2002. In order to understand what happened in Venezuela, a person needed to read everything printed in the NY Times or Washington Post, watch the CNN and Fox News coverage, and listen to the statements made by US officials....

....and then invert everything...treat everything stated as a fact as an almost certain lie, and treat every denial as something that was almost certainly true.

[alexamenos]

osama, obama, been doing that all day long. funny thing is that it really is inadvertant.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

osama, obama, been doing that all day long. funny thing is that it really is inadvertant.

haha, yea, at least you didn't twitter "obama shot and killed" last night. whoops!

[alexamenos]

classical definition of a freudian slip....

...it's when you say one thing even though you really meant a mother!

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I'm thinking what with helicopters and explosions and gunfire and all that right in the heart of a reasonably a fluent and heavily military community, somebody gets on the phone and calls somebody else. It's a long ass way from Islamabad back to the border, so at some point you figure the Paks might scramble a couple of jets or something like that.

Apparently they did scramble jets, but they didn't get to the choppas.

[GermanDunk]

A trial @ Den Haag would have been appropriate.

[alexamenos]

at the end of the operation, Pakistan’s military scrambled fighter jets looking for the US helicopters.

ok, ummm....nevermind.

America: F*#& Yeah.

[chumdawg]

Question...how were they able to identify the body using DNA testing? Did they have some of Bin Laden's DNA just lying around?

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Question...how were they able to identify the body using DNA testing? Did they have some of Bin Laden's DNA just lying around?

probably considering they have a bank of all his family members and probably snagged a sample back when he was in CIA training against the USSR

either they compared it against other Bin Ladens or compared it to old samples they had of him.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Question...how were they able to identify the body using DNA testing? Did they have some of Bin Laden's DNA just lying around?

Articles I read said they compared it against family DNA.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ok, ummm....nevermind.

America: F*#& Yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

[Underdog]

Kathryn Bigelow (Hurt Locker) is lined up to make a movie about Osama bin Laden's death... with a script that was ALREADY IN DEVELOPMENT about the very unit that killed him (that's a hell of a coincidence, huh?)

link

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Kathryn Bigelow (Hurt Locker) is lined up to make a movie about Osama bin Laden's death... with a script that was ALREADY IN DEVELOPMENT about the very unit that killed him (that's a hell of a coincidence, huh?)

link

Hopefully it will be as accurate as the movie made about Flight 93.

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Apparently they did scramble jets, but they didn't get to the choppas.

Hadn't heard this portion yet (from article you linked):

"One possible complication: While CIA contractor Ray Davis was in the Pakistani prison there were concerns about his safety were this mission to be conducted.

Davis’s March 16 release cleared that possible obstacle to the operation -- a kill mission, with the clear objective to kill bin Laden."

That does certainly help to explain the delay in executing this mission, of the intel has existed for some time.

[Underdog]

wrong thread

[alexamenos]

I think US Government actions will give us a pretty good clue over the next couple of weeks as well....if the official story is true, would it not be a little prudent for the USG to stop giving Pakistan money to help us fight the war on terror?

well i'll be damned....

But irate U.S. lawmakers earlier asked how it was possible for bin Laden to live in a populated area near a military training academy without anyone in authority knowing about it.

They said it was time to review aid to Pakistan. The Congress has approved $20 billion for Pakistan in direct aid and military reimbursements partly to help Islamabad fight militancy since bin Laden masterminded the September 11, 2001 attacks.

"Our government is in fiscal distress. To make contributions to a country that isn't going to be fully supportive is a problem for many," said Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein.

[Underdog]

So, um, do we owe Afghanistan an apology?

"We're sorry..."

[MavsX]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So, um, do we owe Afghanistan an apology?

"We're sorry..."

nah

[dalger]

No pictures of Bin Laden after riding into the sunset? Sounds like the biggest field day in history for conspiracy theorists...