Cuban's Credibility, and Nash Tired? Whatever!!!!!!! - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chef Ed · 01-10-2002, 09:20 PM

I would like to attempt to refresh everyone's memory. Remember Khalid El-Amin? Remember how well he played in training camp? Go a head.
Look up his stats. Remember how at the end of training camp the discusion was weather, or not, you keep 3 point guards, or you continue to kid yourself that you have a chance in hell of compeating down in the low post. Well the choice was made and El-Amin was cut. Now we are hearing rumbling's about how Steve Nash is tired, and we need to sign
another point Guard. I don't want to go there, but unfortunatly someone need's to make the point. We could have avoided this. It shouldn't even be a issue. It concerns me when we aren't even half way thru the season, and our All-Star Point Guard is tired...Problem?
Now as far as our out spoken Owner is concerned. Here is a conspiricy theory for you. The refs gave the Maverick's the game the other night. Knowing that Mr. Cuban wouldn't be as vocal about officiating, especially when his team benifits from it. His whole agrument fell out the window when the Maverick's won the game in the last 6 seconds on a foul call. What was that about the Star system Mr.
Cuban? Or don't you consider your own players as All-Stars? How come your not crying foul now. If Mr. Cuban would have blown a gasket the way he did when his team was beaten, then Mr. Cuban would have a argument, and people would line up to support him. But as it stand's the ref's made the right call the other night, knowing the outcome. Mr.
Cuban's habit's make him an easy target. The ref's knew that, and they compleatly discredited with one whistle. Your right Mr. Cuban. The ref's do have all the power. Get over it, and deal with it, because if you don't the team is going to suffer, and that concerns me a great deal.

aexchange · 01-10-2002, 10:05 PM

er ... knee jerker the enlightened is back again.

el-amin is a short dumpy fat point guard with no outside game who isnt extremely quick. let me remind you the mavs offensive system depends on fluidity and players being able to nail the outside jumper, especially the guards. i dont know where you hear nash being tired and i'd like to see the source on it. they dumped el-amin to get newman, which was a smart move. they dropped wolk. for omar cook, which i thought was a smarter move, but cook has no jumpshot either. so they dump omar cook for charlie bell who at least has an outside game, can drive well enough and that fits much better into the mavs system than el-chalupa.

Hoopsmeister · 01-11-2002, 12:52 AM

Going to strongly disagree with you here. I've been reading a lot of the national coverage of Cuban's fine, and the fact is that Stern seems to have overplayed his hand with this fine. Its easy to see his thinking. Ten thousand, twenty-five thousand, a hundred thousand hasn't phased billionaire Cuban so I'll keep upping the ante until it hurts even his pocket. But the sheer ridiculousness of the fine, $500,000 for criticizing the refs when a player would get a tenth of that for actually physically damaging another player, the largest in league history, has turned it into a real news story. Instead of a little news blurb or a one-liner in a commentary, reporters are actually thinking about and investigating the story. And the consensus is that Cuban has a point. They may criticize his calling out Ed Rush personally, or otherwise object to the way he did it, but after all the caveats, they say 'BUT he has a point.'

And the fact that Cuban has a good team, one that is starting to benefit from the star system, only adds credibility to his critique.

And as far as the Denver game goes, did you even watch it? I'm not saying Nash didn't foul Porter, but you can't really compare that play and that call with the Denver one. The foul on Dirk was clear and unambiguous, not like San Antonio where you had multiple players bumping against each other, and it was Nash who came away with both the foul and and blood. Not to mention that the foul on Dirk was Cuban's whole point--if its foul, its a foul whether a rookie or Michael Jordan commits it, and its a foul whether it occurs five minutes into the game or with thirty seconds left.

Hoopsmeister · 01-11-2002, 01:08 AM

As to your other point, when we cut el-Amin, he was the *4th* point guard, not the 3rd. They had Martin as a backup to Nash and Hardaway when the real season started. They then eventually decided that Martin wasn't good enough to be our 3rd point either. So they cut him and picked up Cook, and now they've cut him and picked up Bell.

We have had a 3rd point guard pretty much the entire season. Only so far, none of them have pleased Nellie enough for him trust the team to them for a minute. You can believe Nellie is too picky, but we haven't lacked a third point guard because of big men pickups.

And Nash and Hardaway's minutes have had more to do with our problems at the other spots than anything else. Our center problems have meant Dirk and Manning have had to fill in there, leaving them unavailable for time at the 3. So both the 2 and 3 have had to be filled with Finley, Buckner and Griffin at least one and sometimes 2 of which have been injured pretty much all season. So Nelson has had to go to small ball and playing Nash and Hardaway together with one of them as the '2' as the most effective line-up. Now that Wang and Newman have joined the team and are starting to play well enough to earn minutes at the 3 and 5, Nellie has been able to back off a bit--you'll notice they hardly played together tonight at all.

Rhylan · 01-11-2002, 02:28 AM

Chef, Chef, Chef.

...oh Cheffie.

There's this thing in the game of basketball, that happens a lot when a guy has the ball in his hands. It's called a ball fake. You put the ball up like you're going to shoot it, and usually square up your non-pivot foot. Then, you bring it back down and if you can, you move away from or past the defender because he's freaked out about you shooting.

If you've ever seen a game below the high school level, EVERY defender in the history of the world jumps up in the air when faced with a ball fake, because he wants to be the stud and block the shot. This tendency stays with players, even up to the pros.

Dirk Nowitzki ball-faked Ryan Bowen. Ryan Bowen jumped. Dirk moved to his left and towards Bowen. Bowen landed on Dirk. Dirk's pretty smart, so he tried to put up a shot as this happened, and his second effort got the ball through the hoop. Thank God for continuation.

Just remember that Bowen landed on Dirk. That's the biggie. Landing on someone who is in the act of shooting is against the rules. It falls under the category of a 'foul.'

I know that was condescending, but DAMN, dude. He got caught in the air on a ball fake and LANDED on Dirk, and you're saying that was given to Dallas by the referees? Give me a break, man.

For the record, Nash fouled Porter. However, had Bryon Russell done that to Michael Jordan in June of 1998, would a foul have been called? Yes, of course. Had Michael Jordan done the same thing to Bryon Russell in June of 1998, would a foul have been called? No way.

realclipsfan · 01-11-2002, 03:55 AM

Hey dude the refs have been giving Dirk quite a few calls that has been iffy IMO. He has established himself as an star in this league and all but damn. Did you guys watch the game tonight OK OK I know you did, the call on Eisley was terrible. I was there, and it was a bad call. Also, all the calls on the 3's and jumpshots are too funny, everyone knows most of the calls is a matter of my man Dirk acting.

mavs_afroman · 01-11-2002, 05:29 AM

We all know how much NBA players complain about foul calls even when they know that they are wrong. However, I didn't see Eisley complain when that fouled was called on him tonight. I didn't see Turkoglu complain when he fouled dirk on the three that tied up the game in Sac-town. I didn't see Camby(?) complain when he fouled Dirk on the three in New York. I could go on but I think you get my point. If these guys weren't fouling Dirk they would certainly be complaining about it but I haven't seen much of that and you know its not because they show such great sportsmanship. I guess Dirk's a better acter than I thought. He can even make that players believe that they really fouled him.

realclipsfan · 01-11-2002, 06:42 AM

lmaooooooooooooooooooooo, how many times have you seen eisley,hedo, hell even camby complain about calls. Those guys don't waste time complaining about calls, why would they? To get an T, and make things worse. Your saying of "nba players complain about calls is a little far fetched. Some guys complain, but alot do not. Especially guys like Hedo and Eisley, who I have never seen complain. It's funny you mention 3 guys that never complain about calls, not just calls vs the Mavs.

seelenjaeger · 01-11-2002, 07:41 AM

Well, once again Clipsfan, just that you THINK he wasnt fouled and you THINK those guys are no complainers doesnt mean they aren´t.

There´s quite an easy rule: if you touch the hand of the opponent while he shoots it´s a foul.
Believe it or not - you KNOW if you get him if you are the one to foul. And you usually hear it if you are close enough. So it´s sweet that you who are some dozens of feet away from the action know better about a foul than the three involved down there ...

If three guys who are in it together agree on a thing, it is very often very right ...

TheKid · 01-11-2002, 10:14 AM

CLIPSFAN, You are WRONG.... I am a Knicks fan and I watch all of their games on MSG (yes I have the NBA PACKAGE [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]). You're saying CAMBY DOESN'T WASTE HIS TIME WHINING???!!!! I can't tell you how many times I've yelled at the screen, "Camby stop trying to avoid the hit that's why they won't call the foul, and stop your bitching!" He is ALLLLWAAAYYYSSSS bitching, and Eisley hasn't touched the floor enough to bitch, so he better not.

Also Chef, when players complain they realize the refs are not going to change their mind (unless there's a descrepency between two refs) so they want the refs to look out so the NEXT time that's not a problem. So if Cuban's bitching got him the call the next night against Denver, then kudos for him. HOWEVER, Dirk was fouled, there's no disputing that at all. Cuban's complaining is a double edged sword, it sort of scrutinizes the team, but at the same time, it keeps these refs aware that someone is watching them.

As far as that fine goes, I've said it already it's ridiculous. In my opinion, Stern wants to fine Cuban so much because he's trying to make a statement. He feels as if Cuban is upstaging him and this is "his" way of letting Cuban know he's still in charge. Well to hell with him, Cuban has that same sort of cockiness that Jerry Jones have. When Jones came to the Cowboys, he was the one that said started getting advertisements that brought money into the NFL, getting NIKE, PEPSI, etc. What happened, the NFL got pissed at him then all of a sudden he was considered a terrible person. Well the truth is, he was NOT, and he did MORE for the game than people give him credit for. I think that's the same thing that's going to happen with Cuban. He does things for his team that NO OTHER OWNER thinks about, and he'll bring more to the game than any other owner and STERN DOESN'T LIKE THAT...

realclipsfan · 01-11-2002, 06:33 PM

el-amin scored 44 points the other night in an CBA game, that's a big accomplishment whenever you score that many. he also had an former NBa player on him, it was Randy Livingston. The mavs screwed themself when they cut this kid.

Bayliss · 01-11-2002, 11:13 PM

And my brother in high school scored 26 points against Andrae Patterson (who played in the NBA)... so RCF... what is your point?

The CBA is nothing like the NBA game. In fact, I bet some of the top NCAA teams this year (Duke, Kansas, etc) could beat some of the CBA teams.

realclipsfan · 01-11-2002, 11:41 PM

HOW many games did Drae play in? uhhhh not many, Livingston played quite a bit when he was with the suns. I bet your brother did score that man too. 26 is not 44 man. Also High School games, is nothing like CBA games. Hell anyone can score 26 against that damn scrubb, probably even you.

MFFL · 01-11-2002, 11:46 PM

<< el-amin scored 44 points the other night in an CBA game, that's a big accomplishment whenever you score that many. >>

If El-Amin was any good he would be with an NBA team. To score 44 is not a noteworthy accomplishment - all it means is that he is marginally better than the mediocre talent base of the CBA.

Flying Tiger · 01-12-2002, 12:33 AM

RCF...Kid calls you out like that and you change the subject? Wow! You have some balls!

Bayliss · 01-12-2002, 02:18 AM

If El-Amin was any good he would be with an NBA team. To score 44 is not a noteworthy accomplishment - all it means is that he is marginally better than the mediocre talent base of the CBA.

Exactly.

realclipsfan · 01-12-2002, 02:36 AM

Flying Tiger, who in the *EDIT* called me out? Dude what's with you? Noone called me out, cause if they did trust me I would reply to them and there so called "call out" of me. Plain and simple I back down from no one, no 1 called me out. Well FT you seem to thinks someone called me out, who called me out? Explain how they called me out as well. I cannot stand these loser ass people coming to me with that kind of crap, "wow,you have some balls". What a damn loser!!

*EDIT* Watch the profanity clipsfan. *EDIT*

Flying Tiger · 01-12-2002, 11:13 AM

First off, I'm pretty sure you're winning the race of the biggest loser on the board. And second, The Kid straight up said that you were wrong about Camby, and I didn't think it was like you to let that go without a rebutle.

MFFL · 01-12-2002, 11:38 AM

RCF - >I< have called you out! >I< told you that El-Amin was marginally better than mediocre!

realclipsfan · 01-12-2002, 01:00 PM

I do not see how you can say an individual is this good and that good. He is in the league, your not. He made the league, you didn't so how can you say he is marginally better than anything? That is beyond me, I compare 2 players but I never say this player is bad or this player is good. If they have played 1 game in the league they are better than mediocre. I can careless if you >try< and call me out, and on a topic like this you are dead wrong. The guy is better than mediocre, and he has proven that on the college level as well as the NBA Level. He won an NCAA Championship in College, played in the Soph/Rook game last year. So saying this guy is mediocre just to get off on it, is beyond me. Why do you guys continue to hate on guys that the Mavs gave away with getting nothing in return? That too is beyond me. As for you Flying Tigger, "The Kid" is not the only 1 who watches the Knicks games. I watch them just about every chance I get on the League pass, and "I" NEVER see him complaining. I am beyond arguing with losers like you and what's his name who posted after you.

Flying Tiger · 01-13-2002, 09:33 PM

Flying Tigger...clever. RCF, apparently the scale that you use to judge skill on has the worst b-ball player in the world on the bottom and the best on the top. Most sane people gage that based on the best player in the NBA and the worst player in the NBA.

MFFL · 01-13-2002, 09:42 PM

FT - I think you're giving RCF way too much credit. He probably was trying to type "Flying Tiger" and just misspelled tiger. The developmentally disabled often make errors like that.

realclipsfan · 01-14-2002, 01:11 AM

sorry tigger you're a loser and you don't even know it. so it's not your fault but this MFFL guy I think he knows he is an loser. thats the funny thing about it.

Murphy3 · 01-14-2002, 11:20 AM

actually.....if anyone knows sports around here...it's me...look at my predictions and my views..they're almost always pretty close to being on the money

one thing i was wrong on was najera..he's going to be a much better nba player than i ever thought he would be...

actually, he's already a better nba player than i thought he'd ever be..

but, for every najera mistake there's 10 nuggets of gold from which i redeem myself..such as the "mcdonald's take on J.Sasser"

realclipsfan · 01-14-2002, 07:11 PM

again who gives a flying "f**k" Smurph? I don't, better yet who asked you? I didn't!! IMO you don't know crap if you predicted najera as not being an good NBA player, it was obvious that preseason game his rookie year vs the rockets he was an player and belonged.

TheKid · 01-15-2002, 11:42 AM

HEY DJ, how in the HELL did someone post under my name??? I did NOT write these posts on here with the EDIT... whatever it is...

TheKid · 01-15-2002, 11:48 AM

Never mind DJ, that was just how it looked on my screen, my fault, nothing is wrong... Got scared for a minute...

Also RCF, if you don't see Camby complaining then you didn't watch them play the Bucks the other night. He was bitching on TWO occassions when he went to the basket and he thought he got fouled. HOWEVER I say this all the time about him, when you're 6'10 and up and can jump out the gym like him and someone 6'8 blocks your shot because you're trying to duck the contact, they should'nt call the foul. He was bitching just like a little punk too. That's just an example and that is NOT the only time he's complained either. You don't watch the Knicks enough if you believe that. I mentioned to a friend of mine who is a KNICKS FANATIC that someone said Camby doesn't complain, he almost bust a gut laughing so hard..

Murphy3 · 01-15-2002, 12:41 PM

smurph..very insulting..
actually, it was one of my favorite cartoons growing up....and the nickname for a very good group of receivers on a very good team..

but nice attempt at trying to insult someone...try again though

and with najera..i said he is better than i thought he would be.. i didn't say he was in sasser's class..i thought najera was a kid that would stick around.... i just didn't think that other players would have poor seasons like they've had this year...allowing najera to get minutes