Troopergate - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 10-09-2008, 11:00 PM

Report due out tomorrow. Report out tonight from Palin pre-emptively granting her absolution.

Question: If Monegan was fired because of some budgetary complaint, then why are they taking pains to paint Wooten as such a bad guy?

If it had nothing to do with Wooten, then what does Wooten have to do with it?

Doesn't this all come across as a prime-time, national Jerry Springer episode?

There's politics, and then there's cracker-jack politics. We have found a new low, I'm afraid.

mary · 10-10-2008, 06:18 AM

Because nothing say "maverick", "transparency" and "reform" like taking over your own ethics investigation.

chumdawg · 10-10-2008, 09:16 PM

The report is out, and it says that Palin abused her power as governor.

No surprise there.

chumdawg · 10-10-2008, 09:59 PM

As expected, Drudge doesn't see fit to post the story. I'd like to quit hearing the bitching and moaning from Republicans that the MSM is in the Dems' pockets. Drudge drives news like nobody else does, and he is clearly on the Reps' side in this campaign.

Silk Smoov · 10-10-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

As expected, Drudge doesn't see fit to post the story. I'd like to quit hearing the bitching and moaning from Republicans that the MSM is in the Dems' pockets. Drudge drives news like nobody else does, and he is clearly on the Reps' side in this campaign.

Think Drudge would run a story about this: http://video1.washingtontimes.com/vi...ing-Letter.jpg

Looks real to me....

Usually Lurkin · 10-10-2008, 10:30 PM

Maybe it's not being splashed everywhere because it's nothing.
Bill Dyer covers it, and finds this in the actual report (emphasis is his):

Quote:

Finding Number One

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

Finding Number Two

I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.

Here's Dyer's summary:

Quote:

The Branchflower Report is a series of guess and insupportable conclusions drawn by exactly one guy, and it hasn't been approved or adopted or endorsed by so much as a single sub-committee of the Alaska Legislature, much less any kind of commission, court, jury, or other proper adjudicatory body. It contains no new bombshells in terms of factual revelations. Rather, it's just Steve Branchflower's opinion — after being hired and directed by one of Gov. Palin's most vocal opponents and one of Alaska's staunchest Obama supporters — that he thinks Gov. Palin had, at worst, mixed motives for an action that even Branchflower admits she unquestionably had both (a) the complete right to perform and (b) other very good reasons to perform.

Silk Smoov · 10-10-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Maybe it's not being splashed everywhere because it's nothing.
Bill Dyer covers it, and finds this in the actual report (emphasis is his):

Here's Dyer's summary:

So, it says she committed a crime in office, in my mind needs to be impeached for what she did, BUT she should be forgiven because she acted in good faith because there are others who would do the same thing

I understand now.

Hey! Take a look at this and tell me what you think:

Only Sadness about Troopergate

George Harris
Kansas City Star
Reader Advisory Panel 2008

For Obama supporters there should be no satisfaction in the report released today.

Investigator Stephen Branchflower concluded that Sarah Palin violated state ethics law prohibiting public officials from using their office for private gain.

Republicans dismiss the report as political, but a panel of 10 Republicans and 4 Democrats agreed to release the report.

It's not surprising that a government official would use her power to advance a personal grudge.

And it's not surprising that Governor Palin would deny to Alaskans and to the nation that personal matters were a factor in her decision to fire Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan.

Nor is it surprising, really, that Palin would refuse to cooperate with an investigation after she had said she would.

And it's not really too shocking that Governor Palin would go around the country claiming that Senator Obama is the one who can't be trusted. Maybed I'm too jaded to care about any of this.

What is sad is that John McCain selected this woman to run as his vice-presidential candidate and he built a campaign around her as it became obvious that she was unfit for the office. Even as he breyed "Country First."

Give him the benefit of the doubt that when he selected her he didn't believe the Troopergate charges, as naive as that seems. Maybe his staff conducted an incompetent screeing, too.

But later he condoned her attempts at cover-up and sanctioned and repeated her intimations that Obama was somehow invidiously associated with a domestic terrorist.

Sure, McCain and Palin both said (one with a wink) that the issue was whether Obama was being truthful about his connection to William Ayers. But they both knew that they were stoking flames of hatred toward Obama and that they were trying to brand him as traitorous.

Today, finally, McCain attempted to restore some of his honor by rejecting a woman's statement at a rally accusing Obama of being an "Arab"...code for terrorist. This is the John McCain I used to admire.

It's the McCain who rejected hatred toward Mexican immigrants, even those illegally here.

It's the John McCain who made the mistake of lying for personal ambition in campaign 2000 but publicly admitted it and moved on.

John McCain could have engaged in an extended, thoughtful campaign against Democrat Obama by talking about national defense, the war in Iraq, and economic turmoil, with or without the many town hall meetings McCain wanted and Obama rejected.

But he didn't choose to do this.

The country will move on. The next president will fight terrorists somewhere. The economy will revive. But can John McCain, if miraculously elected, ever make a large segment of the populace believe that he has enough honor left to admire.

After a long and interesting life with much service and sacrifice, John McCain's legacy will be tainted by his willingness to allow an unworthy surrogate to suggest that an opponent is a traitor.

chumdawg · 10-10-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

It contains no new bombshells in terms of factual revelations.

Of course it had no new bombshells. Everybody has known about it all along!

Including John McCain, I'm sure. She was under investigation when he tapped her, right?

If you ask me, the more damning thing is not that she executed her job poorly and unethically--which everyone paying attention already knows--but rather that Alaska politics just looks so SMALL. The governor is busy trying to fire an in-law. You would tend to think that the job of governor would be about larger things.

Murphy3 · 10-10-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Of course it had no new bombshells. Everybody has known about it all along!

Including John McCain, I'm sure. She was under investigation when he tapped her, right?

If you ask me, the more damning thing is not that she executed her job poorly and unethically--which everyone paying attention already knows--but rather that Alaska politics just looks so SMALL. The governor is busy trying to fire an in-law. You would tend to think that the job of governor would be about larger things.

Chum, you sound like an absolute goof right now.

chumdawg · 10-10-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Chum, you sound like an absolute goof right now.

Would you prefer I rant against the murder of five-year-olds?

Usually Lurkin · 10-10-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

So, it says she committed a crime in office, in my mind needs to be impeached for what she did, BUT she should be forgiven because she acted in good faith because there are others who would do the same thing

I understand now.
.

exactly. The report says she abused her power. And it says that she acted completely lawfully. If you want to act like you take any new understanding from that, you have to do it sarcastically.

chumdawg · 10-11-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

exactly. The report says she abused her power. And it says that she acted completely lawfully. If you want to act like you take any new understanding from that, you have to do it sarcastically.

As I understand it, she acted lawfully in firing the commissioner, and she acted unlawfully in pressuring that commissioner to fire the trooper.

chumdawg · 10-11-2008, 12:59 AM

The dude shot a moose without a license. Shot a moose without a license, I say. Or maybe it was his wife. I don't know...who cares. And drove about in his cop car with a full can of beer.

Drove about in his cop car with a full can of beer. Go figure.

Yeah, we need someone from Alaska running this country. We need that real good.

Flacolaco · 10-11-2008, 01:11 AM

It is so classic how much this woman pisses the left off, when they know damned well there isn't a snowballs chance in hell she (the media lets her) get elected.

I'm sure Obama has abused his...uhh...well when he...wait...he hasn't really ever done anything. Never mind.

chumdawg · 10-11-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

It is so classic how much this woman pisses the left off, when they know damned well there isn't a snowballs chance in hell she (the media lets her) get elected.

I'm sure Obama has abused his...uhh...well when he...wait...he hasn't really ever done anything. Never mind.

It's just anecdotal, of course, but I can give you examples of her pissing the right off, too. George Will and his ilk, first and foremost. Some of the people I am talking to, next, though those are the kind of anecdotal stories that certainly aren't going to mean much.

It seems to come down to whether you want someone in a full clown costume or you don't. People who like clowns, they like Palin. People who want something more serious, they don't.

Chacun a son gout, as they say.

Usually Lurkin · 10-11-2008, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

The dude shot a moose without a license. Shot a moose without a license, I say. Or maybe it was his wife. I don't know...who cares. And drove about in his cop car with a full can of beer.

Drove about in his cop car with a full can of beer. Go figure.

Yeah, we need someone from Alaska running this country. We need that real good.

you've read enough to know there was more than that.

rabbitproof · 10-11-2008, 04:26 AM

This is not a huge deal to the American people.

Anybody still expecting her to 'clean up' government is a month behind the rest of us, moral and character questions aside...

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

This is not a huge deal to the American people.

Anybody still expecting her to 'clean up' government is a month behind the rest of us, moral and character questions aside...

Sure. They know that government isn't going to be cleaned up. Certainly not by the likes of a partisan like Obama.

GuerillaBlack · 10-11-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

exactly. The report says she abused her power. And it says that she acted completely lawfully. If you want to act like you take any new understanding from that, you have to do it sarcastically.

More like her defense lawyer.

Maringa · 10-11-2008, 11:14 AM

You know..this instance is very similar to when Clinton came into office and immediately fired several dozen lawyers in the Justice Dept. simply because of their party affiliation, and/or that they worked under Bush Sr.

This kind of stuff happens all of the time and it will definitely happen under Obama when he becomes president (but in his instance, you will hear crickets chirping). Appointed officials in this case are at the disposal of the executive office.

Most Americans would relate to the background of the Palin/Troopergate issue. If my family was being threatened by a trooper, and his superior doesn't do anything about it, then I would move up the ladder in this case. Unfortunately, there is no question that this was a partisan, which includes disgraced Republicans who had it in her for her doing her job. This will blare on the airways for a few days, and then it will die down. I personnally don't think this is going to affect the unfortunate outcome of Obama in office. You have to give it to him...he is running a fine oiled Chicago style race. I didn't think it would ever be possible to outdo Bill and Hillary ...

dude1394 · 10-11-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Chum, you sound like an absolute goof right now.

He and Andy Sullivan are completley unhinged.

Mavdog · 10-11-2008, 12:46 PM

the most interesting item is how the palin camp characterized the bi-partisan commission as "unfair" once it was clear they could not dictate the outcome.

so now we have the full story of how a governor used her office to pursue a personal vendetta against an enemy of her family, and what is very disconcerting the governor's spouse using the governor's office against the target of their family.

so much for agents of reform. rings very hollow at this point, clealry it's business as usual.

any republicans who wish to lay the claim that obama is "guilty of using dirty chicago politics" should think twice, as the label of palin being "guilty of dirty alaska politics" carries just as much, if not more, negativity.

dude1394 · 10-11-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the most interesting item is how the palin camp characterized the bi-partisan commission as "unfair" once it was clear they could not dictate the outcome.

so now we have the full story of how a governor used her office to pursue a personal vendetta against an enemy of her family, and what is very disconcerting the governor's spouse using the governor's office against the target of their family.

so much for agents of reform. rings very hollow at this point, clealry it's business as usual.

any republicans who wish to lay the claim that obama is "guilty of using dirty chicago politics" should think twice, as the label of palin being "guilty of dirty alaska politics" carries just as much, if not more, negativity.

So you are saying that Palin is engaging in Obama politics?

rabbitproof · 10-11-2008, 12:56 PM

Sheesh, you guys should just buy one already:

http://www.thefrisky.com/site/post/2...l-now-on-sale/

rabbitproof · 10-11-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Sure. They know that government isn't going to be cleaned up. Certainly not by the likes of a partisan like Obama.

Actually, his bill to publish every bill and its supporter on a website was a good step towards transparency.

Anyways, I'm knocking her brains.

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Actually, his bill to publish every bill and its supporter on a website was a good step towards transparency.

What, so that we could more easily count the 96% of the time he votes with his party?

rabbitproof · 10-11-2008, 01:06 PM

Haha, touche.

But give him that much, at least we know that now..

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 01:11 PM

I guess that's true. I just don't see how anybody would realistically expect him to represent a change in the way business is conducted in Washington.

rabbitproof · 10-11-2008, 01:15 PM

If people are expecting wholesale changes to the way business is conducted in Washington from either McCain-Plain or Obama-Biden, they're delusional.

IMO, Obama's "change" harps about moving away from Bush policies while McCain's "reform" is focused more on Washington structure. I may be reading that wrong and perhaps both are focused on changing the way business is conducted in Washington but if I'm reading it right, I think Obama's "change" is realistic, be it good or bad, while McCain's is not. That said, if either was possible, I'd like to do McCain's reform before Obama's change but I don't have the hope goggles on.

Mavdog · 10-11-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

So you are saying that Palin is engaging in Obama politics?

no, I am saying she is a politician just like most other politicians.

as for "obama politics", are you aware of any events when obama pressured state or federal officials in regard to a personal vendetta?

didn't think so.

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

If people are expecting wholesale changes to the way business is conducted in Washington from either McCain-Plain or Obama-Biden, they're delusional.

IMO, Obama's "change" harps about moving away from Bush policies while McCain's "reform" is focused more on Washington structure. I may be reading that wrong and perhaps both are focused on changing the way business is conducted in Washington but if I'm reading it right, I think Obama's "change" is realistic, be it good or bad, while McCain's is not. That said, if either was possible, I'd like to do McCain's reform before Obama's change but I don't have the hope goggles on.

There's no question that an Obama presidency will bring about policy changes. That seems inevitable with a Democratic Congress. It's just that I've heard Obama numerous times talk about bringing people together, harkening all the way back to his DNC speech in 2004. His record suggests that he will advance a very progressive/liberal agenda, not bring everybody together.

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, I am saying she is a politician just like most other politicians.

Because of "Troopergate" (imo, the most ridiculous application of the "gate" suffix in recent memory)?

What's humorous is that I've yet to hear anyone suggest that the trooper didn't deserve to be fired. They just don't think Palin should have suggested/encouraged/coerced (pick your term) it.

Stupid.

Mavdog · 10-11-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

What's humorous is that I've yet to hear anyone suggest that the trooper didn't deserve to be fired. They just don't think Palin should have suggested/encouraged/coerced (pick your term) it.

Stupid.

apparently alaska public safety commissioner walt monegan concluded that officer wooten "didn't deserve to be fired"...

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

apparently alaska public safety commissioner walt monegan concluded that officer wooten "didn't deserve to be fired"...

That's begging the question, since his judgment is also at issue.

Mavdog · 10-11-2008, 01:59 PM

he was appointed by palin, so if he lacks proper judgement what does that say about her?

nothing positive.

kg_veteran · 10-11-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

he was appointed by palin, so if he lacks proper judgement what does that say about her?

nothing positive.

I see. She's supposed to be perfect. Do you really want to apply that standard to any politician? I think we could look at any governor's tenure and point to good and bad appointments.

Mavdog · 10-11-2008, 03:08 PM

who says anyone is "supposed to be perfect"? nice deflection.

the bottom line to this episode is palin made multiple errors in judgement.

the "first dude" looks like a very petty person who gets his nose into places he should keep it out of.

Dirkadirkastan · 10-11-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

As expected, Drudge doesn't see fit to post the story. I'd like to quit hearing the bitching and moaning from Republicans that the MSM is in the Dems' pockets. Drudge drives news like nobody else does, and he is clearly on the Reps' side in this campaign.

Well, Troopergate is pretty far down on the page, but a nice "McCain's Costly Mortgage Plan" ad with a link to Obama's website came up at the top of the page.

Maringa · 10-11-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

he was appointed by palin, so if he lacks proper judgement what does that say about her?

nothing positive.

I don' t think that there has ever been a presidency (Republican or Democrat) in recent history that hasn't made some error in judgement in some of their appointees. You better get used to hearing, after about a year or year and a half into Obama's presidency where some of his appointees will resign or get fired in shame. It's the nature of the political world.

If this incident with Palin is the most questionable thing in the eyes of the Democrats, that she has done, then she has done well. At least she stood up to an idiot and dismissed him as he deserved to be. I wish Washington politicians had her gumption to get rid of the thousands of idiot that reside there.

Usually Lurkin · 10-11-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

the bottom line to this episode is palin made multiple errors in judgement..

Rezko, Wright, Ayers . . . If you want to reflect on Palin like this, then you should look equally into Obama.