Summer league game stream? - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

you people bitch about JET's d but praise JJB? What a crazy world we live in. JET is 10x's the defender that JJB is...

Are you serious? Jet's problems don't have anything to do with his athleticism or size or lack thereof. They have everything to do with his lack of understanding of defensive concepts, his lack of an ability to keep his man in front of him, and his all too often lack of desire.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Are you serious? Jet's problems don't have anything to do with his athleticism or size or lack thereof. They have everything to do with his lack of understanding of defensive concepts, his lack of an ability to keep his man in front of him, and his all too often lack of desire.

yes I am serious. JJB would give up 30 a night if he played big minutes. Don't be stupid chumdawg.

While Jet is nowhere near a good defensive player, he definitely adequate.

Barrea is getting lit up in SUMMER LEAGUE dude...summer league.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

yes I am serious. JJB would give up 30 a night if he played big minutes. Don't be stupid chumdawg.

While Jet is nowhere near a good defensive player, he definitely adequate.

Barrea is getting lit up in SUMMER LEAGUE dude...summer league.

Terry doesn't mind giving up 30-point games, that's for sure. And he has the luxury of having NBA-quality defenders in the paint behind him.

Barea is NOT getting abused on defense in this summer league. His individual defensive play is more than adequate. (Not to mention that he is rebounding rather well.)

IF, for the sake of argument, Barea is getting lit up...trust me, they would need new lights on the scoreboard if Terry played in the summer league for long.

alby · 07-12-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Terry doesn't mind giving up 30-point games, that's for sure. And he has the luxury of having NBA-quality defenders in the paint behind him.

Barea is NOT getting abused on defense in this summer league. His individual defensive play is more than adequate. (Not to mention that he is rebounding rather well.)

IF, for the sake of argument, Barea is getting lit up...trust me, they would need new lights on the scoreboard if Terry played in the summer league for long.

JET might be the worst defensive starting PG in the league. He was definitely the worst out of the 16 teams that made the playoffs this year.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Terry doesn't mind giving up 30-point games, that's for sure. And he has the luxury of having NBA-quality defenders in the paint behind him.

Barea is NOT getting abused on defense in this summer league. His individual defensive play is more than accurate. (Not to mention that he is rebounding rather well.)

IF, for the sake of argument, Barea is getting lit up...trust me, they would need new lights on the scoreboard if Terry played in the summer league for long.

ok, chum. Sergio Rodriguez made him look like a chump time after time and went off for double his summer league average. He blew right by him again and again. Aaron Brooks went off on him and made him look like what he is. Which is roster fodder in which you have a strange facination with based on summer league games with possible 10% NBA players. Attach your wagon to him all you want.

I prefer the player who with a PER of 19 in back to back years. You can have JJB as your favorite charity case.

alby · 07-12-2007, 08:49 PM

JJB's defense > JET's defense

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

JJB's defense > JET's defense

wow. that's funny. not only that, but maybe the dumbest thing i've heard in a long time.

Aaron Brooks only has 26 and 7 on him in 10 minute quarters...

alby · 07-12-2007, 08:50 PM

JJB is really leading his team to victory right now

Dirkadirkastan · 07-12-2007, 08:56 PM

That was a pretty clear call. Geez.

Janett_Reno · 07-12-2007, 09:01 PM

Bass, Ager, Faz, Green, Seibutus all a good game. It was good seeing Ager and Faz do good and this Bass and even Green seem to always do good. I like Bass. Brooks was really good for Houston and Barea can play. He get's inside and is small and isn't afraid to shoot. He is fun to watch.

Diop just seems not to be able to score.

foglemann · 07-12-2007, 09:02 PM

Crippler, your a joke, just cause a guy is 6'0 doesn't mean he doesn't play D. Terry misses more assignments than you must have missed in school. He will get beat up in the league, no doubt, he's small, but his technique is there and he hussles.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

Crippler, your a joke, just cause a guy is 6'0 doesn't mean he doesn't play D. Terry misses more assignments than you must have missed in school. He will get beat up in the league, no doubt, he's small, but his technique is there and he hussles.

I'm the joke? I'm not the one who is claiming someone is a great defender by watching him play and get lit up in summer league where 90% of the players won't even make a roster. You are a f'n idiot.

alby · 07-12-2007, 09:13 PM

JJB's defense > JET's defense

shouldn't even be a debate about this

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

JJB's defense > JET's defense

shouldn't even be a debate about this

so would the mavs be a better team with JJB taking all of JET's minutes? I mean, he is a defensive stopper and all...

dirno2000 · 07-12-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

JJB's defense > JET's defense

shouldn't even be a debate about this

Until you see Barea guard NBA PG's I don't even know what you would base this on.

Gotta love the summer.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Until you see Barea guard NBA PG's I don't even know what you would base this on.

Gotta love the summer.

You could say the same about Terry, now couldn't you?

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You could say the same about Terry, now couldn't you?

your snide comments show that you don't want to debate the facts, you just want to be a cocksucker.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

your snide comments show that you don't want to debate the facts, you just want to be a cocksucker.

No, that's not it. If I'm not mistaken, you started this discussion by talking about how bad JJB's defense is, and using it as a benchmark against which to hold Terry in high regard. I'm just saying, if you like Terry, fine. But don't tell me you like him because of his defense, for goodness sakes! I like Barea, true. But I don't like him because of his defense! I like Barea because I think he's a true floor general, and evidently he has actually developed a reliable shot from the arc. I think that's enough on the offensive end to overcome whatever deficiencies his size saddle him with on the defensive end. (And I think it's JUST size, because I love his footwork, awareness, and hustle.) You evidently like Terry for the same reason, because I don't know about you, but I have NEVER known Terry to be even remarkable on the defensive end.

I would love to debate the facts with you in a level-headed way. But tell me, please, what exactly we are debating?

alby · 07-12-2007, 09:20 PM

Neither of them should be the starting PG for the Mavs IMO haha!

Plus, I was referring to

JJB's defense > JET's defense

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 09:35 PM

and the last thing...NBA quality defenders behind him?

You mean like Diop? Oh wait, he's playing. Also, I would feel safe in saying that Mensa-Bonsu protects the bucket better than Nowitzki as well.

so it seems to me that he has TWO NBA quality defenders behind him for the majority of his time on the court so far in summer...

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 09:56 PM

Okay, fine. In that case, what do you figure Brooks's numbers would have been against Terry tonight instead of Barea? Give me a ballpark.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Okay, fine. In that case, what do you figure Brooks's numbers would have been against Terry tonight instead of Barea? Give me a ballpark.

Who the f knows. What kind of question is that? I do know JET would drop 30+ on his little ass though.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

Who the f knows. What kind of question is that? I do know JET would drop 30+ on his little ass though.

What kind of question is it? You tell me. You were the one who pointed to the 26 and 7, or whatever it was, as evidence of how bad JJB's defense is, or how much worse it is than Terry's. You were using numbers to make your case. So you tell me. What would Brooks have had against Terry, in the same circumstances? 6 and 2? What? Put a number on it. It's not a hard concept.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

What kind of question is it? You tell me. You were the one who pointed to the 26 and 7, or whatever it was, as evidence of how bad JJB's defense is, or how much worse it is than Terry's. You were using numbers to make your case. So you tell me. What would Brooks have had against Terry, in the same circumstances? 6 and 2? What? Put a number on it. It's not a hard concept.

My main case was made much earlier when I stated that Barea is and will be physically overmatched against any good starting or reserve PG in the league. That was shown time and time again as Brooks blew by him like he was standing still as did rookie Rodriguez. See the first trip down the court tonight...The numbers only tell half the story. and that story is not a good one.

But hey, he tries hard...neato.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 10:03 PM

and if you want a ballpark...I would say somewhere from 0-50 as it's tough to go for more than that with 20 minute halves with all of the scrubs trying to get there's also...

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 10:19 PM

Oh. I thought your point was that Terry was a much better defensive PG than Barea is.

The Crippler · 07-12-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Oh. I thought your point was that Terry was a much better defensive PG than Barea is.

No, my main point was and still is that its is humorous to me (read: idiotic) that the same people that are praising JJB on D are the same people who rip JET for his. Agendas are awesome though and you and alby have the biggest ones on here when it comes to JET.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 10:30 PM

You'd have to point to where I praised JJB's defense for anything besides him doing well with the tools he's been given. I highly doubt that I ever claimed he was a lockdown defender. If I did, it would have been hyperbole, I can tell you that.

But for the purposes of this discussion, that does not matter. Terry is NOT an effective defender. What are you saying, it makes you laugh when people rip Terry's defense because JJB is just as bad as he is? Well, I'm sure I would be just as bad as Terry, too. What is that really saying?

JJB has point guard skills that Terry will never, ever have. If anyone has an agenda, it's that they like their point guard to actually play like a point guard. And if you want to bring up defense, I'll ask you to name off all the premiere offensive point guards who are also premiere defensive point guards. I suspect it won't take you long.

Don't hate on me or Alby because we value having a quarterback as a point guard. If you want a middle linebacker as a point guard, that's up to you. But you sure ain't getting that with Terry.

dirno2000 · 07-12-2007, 11:09 PM

"And if you want to bring up defense, I'll ask you to name off all the premiere offensive point guards who are also premiere defensive point guards. I suspect it won't take you long."

You could argue that Terry is one of the premier offensive PG's. I'm sure you can craft a definition to exclude him but 17ppg for a PG is petty good.

I hate this defensive argument because it's so subjective. Terry haters only think about the times he gets beat. What about the guards that he torches? Are they terrible defenders or it just a hard position to defend?

As for Terry v. JJB, Barea Mo Cheeks with his feet and defensive awareness not to be a defensive liability. He's just too short.

chumdawg · 07-12-2007, 11:38 PM

If it's "just a hard position to defend," then doesn't that mean you would worry a whole lot less about a PG's defensive wherewithal than you would his offensive prowess?

dirno2000 · 07-12-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If it's "just a hard position to defend," then doesn't that mean you would worry a whole lot less about a PG's defensive wherewithal than you would his offensive prowess?

Yes. I believe I've said as much.

That's why I rarely if ever knock Nash for his defense.

bobatundi · 07-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

That's why I rarely if ever knock Nash for his defense.

that's because you can't knock something that doesn't exist.

alby · 07-13-2007, 12:00 AM

One of the reasons why we let go of Nash was because of his limitations on the defensive end. The funny thing is that JET is much much worse. As far as pure individual and team defense, JJB is better. Is he more athletic than JET, hell no. But, maybe because he knows he doesn't have JET's offensive game, he focuses more on defense? who knows? Whatever the case may be, JET's downfalls as a defender (misreads, slow feet, bad positioning) are things that JJB excels at. Although the talent in summer leagues is considerably inferior to the starting point guards in the NBA, not missing assignments or rotating correctly are still basic defensive skills that JET will never have.

dirno2000 · 07-13-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

As far as pure individual and team defense, JJB's is better.

You ever see him guard Baron Davis...how about Chris Paul...Tony Parker? That's the problem with you being so absolute in your claim that he's a better defender than Terry.

chumdawg · 07-13-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

You ever see him guard Baron Davis...how about Chris Paul...Tony Parker? That's the problem with you being so absolute in your claim that he's a better defender than Terry.

Just out of curiosity, do you think Terry occasionally gives those guys trouble?

dirno2000 · 07-13-2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just out of curiosity, do you think Terry occasionally gives those guys trouble?

Is your arguement similar to Alby's? That it would be impossible to guard those players any worse then Terry so JJB must be better based on what we've seen in summer league?

The Crippler · 07-13-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Just out of curiosity, do you think Terry occasionally gives those guys trouble?

considering that Chris Paul had his absolute worst game of the season against Dallas last season stat-wise, I guess that means he gave occasionally gave him some trouble. I'm sure you will spin it to say that it was Harris guarding Paul though...

alby · 07-13-2007, 12:08 AM

The reason why I am so absolute with my claim about JET is that you really can't get any worse, lol.

chumdawg · 07-13-2007, 12:35 AM

Not at all. I wasn't thinking anything like that. I wasn't assuming that it's impossible to guard those players any worse than Terry. I don't care who you are or what position you play, certain guys will be able to guard you. No? I was just curious how well you think Terry guards those guys that you mentioned.

EDIT: I'm not really talking about Barea right now. I think we know what Barea probably is, which is a damn fine third point guard and possibly a guy who could play backup one for limited minutes. I'm talking about Terry right now.

V2M · 07-13-2007, 07:38 AM

Aaron Brooks had 28pts and 7asts in 34min... but he also had 9 TOs!