Official: Rondo to Dallas!! - Page 24 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 02-23-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But see...defense just isn't sexy or a stat the most of the media/fans care about. It does, however, work quite nicely in the playoffs.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read... If it were true, then those losers down in San Antonio would have at least 5 rings in the last 15 years, but they don't... Defense is absolutely useless in this league - that's why D'Antoni/Nash's Suns keep stacking hardware, and are commonly known as the best NBA team of the modern era.

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvbull200

Stop it. Harris can't defend nearly as well as Rondo.

The Mavs had 17 TOs against the Thunder and gave up 21 offensive rebounds. Not to mention they played awful, uninspired defense top to bottom. Those things conspire to help a really good player have very robust numbers. I'm not taking anything away from Westbrook, and I'm not absolving Rondo of any fault for playing about as poorly as his peers, but the Mavs as a whole were just awful that night.

Ibaka had 21 points and 22 rebounds in that game. Are you prepared to say you think that Tyson Chandler doesn't have great D or is a poor rebounder? Could you say that Greg Smith or Bernard James can defend and rebound just as well as Tyson Chandler?

Ibaka is a PF. Not Chandler's assignment. And we know Dirk struggles with rebounding and defense. Especially this year. There's no excuse for how poorly Rondo did against Westbrook. All we can hope for is that doesn't become a trend. Otherwise, early round exit. It's possible the acl surgery has hurt his movement on defense.

Underdog · 02-23-2015, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

There's no excuse for how poorly Rondo did against Westbrook.

Except that, you know, Westbrook is one of the best scorers in the NBA... I mean, who else is shutting him down on a regular basis?

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Except that, you know, Westbrook is one of the best scorers in the NBA... I mean, who else is shutting him down on a regular basis?

If Rondo can't even contain Westbrook, what is he good for? He obviously doesn't have the same explosiveness that he had before the acl surgery. He does just well enough to get by. Yes he was great for Boston 5 years ago. With the help of Allan, Pierce, and Garnett. Was more efficient offensively back then as well.

Kante · 02-23-2015, 06:04 PM

Where was Harris against Curry?

sefant77 · 02-23-2015, 06:13 PM

Im really tired talking about the Rondo trade with one guy always coming with the same bs arguments.

So let me resume again:
our offense were overrated and the numbers inflated by blowing out EC garbage. But even with playing all the EC trash our defense ranked at the bottom of the league. Awesome. Same with our 3p defense etc.

It was pretty clear that this team goes nowhere deep in the playoffs. Not in the WC. Not with Nelson/Monta/Dirk as starter and our PG position as weakness.

The deadline also proved that Rondo was the best POSSIBLE deal this season AND next summer. Everyone claiming something else is just talking crap. "Could have gotton Dragic/Thomas/Knight for peanuts blabla" - this is absolute garbage.

Dragic had his short list of three big market teams. Teams with money to spend next summer. The Heat just gave up two future 1st for the privilege to pay Dragic 20m next summer. And yeah, he is going to get it. The FA class is weak, specially at the PG position and overall at borderline allstar and better level. So no way in hell we could sign Dragic next summer (after getting a homediscount from Tyson, letting Wright go, stretch Felton and trade Nelson. Still millions of cap short of the amount Dragic is going to get.

Lawson never hit the market. Morey had him as backup plan to Dragic and couldnt get him. With the NOP pick + Jones/D-MO. MUCH better package than we could offer. Knight/MCW/IT...yeah also no way we are able to sneak into that mega deal. All rebuilding teams, sure they gonna love Nelson at their PG. And everyone thinking one of this young guys could run our team in the playoffs... yeah, remember the Collison at PG season? That was awesome...

So Rondo was the best deal out there and the best upgrade. Yes, he is an upgrade and im not discussing this. Its still a work in progress because of the lack of games toegther, injuries, Amare etc...

So lets move on. Rondo is going to be there the next three years at least, so deal with it. Because it was our best option and he has still a nice upside to this team. Because Rondos injury also showed that the offensive problems arent just a Rondo issue.

Nelson-Rondo
Wright(UFA)-Amare
Crowder- emerge of Aminu/Jefferson/Charlie

Yeah what a sucking trade

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-23-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kante

Where was Harris against Curry?

Where was 95% of the league against Curry?

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Im really tired talking about the Rondo people with one guy always coming with the same bs arguments.

So let me resume again:
our offense were overrated and the numbers inflated by blowing out EC garbage. But even with playing all the EC trash our defense ranked at the bottom of the league. Awesome. Same with our 3p defense etc.

It was pretty clear that this team goes nowhere deep in the playoffs. Not in the WC. Not with Nelson/Monta/Dirk as starter and our PG position as weakness.

The deadline also proved that Rondo was the best POSSIBLE deal this season AND next summer. Everyone claiming something else is just talking crap. "Could have gotton Dragic/Thomas/Knight for peanuts blabla" - this is absolute garbage.

Dragic had his short list of three big market teams. Teams with money to spend next summer. The Heat just gave up two future 1st for the privilege to pay Dragic 20m next summer. And yeah, he is going to get it. The FA class is weak, specially at the PG position and overall at borderline allstar and better level. So no way in hell we could sign Dragic next summer (after getting a homediscount from Tyson, letting Wright go, stretch Felton and trade Nelson. Still millions of cap short of the amount Dragic is going to get.

Lawson never hit the market. Morey had him as backup plan to Dragic and couldnt get him. With the NOP pick + Jones/D-MO. MUCH better package than we could offer. Knight/MCW/IT...yeah also no way we are able to sneak into that mega deal. All rebuilding teams, sure they gonna love Nelson at their PG. And everyone thinking one of this young guys could run our team in the playoffs... yeah, remember the Collison at PG season? That was awesome...

So Rondo was the best deal out there and the best upgrade. Yes, he is an upgrade and im not discussing this. Its still a work in progress because of the lack of games toegther, injuries, Amare etc...

So lets move on. Rondo is going to be there the next three years at least, so deal with it. Because it was our best option and he has still a nice upside to this team. Because Rondos injury also showed that the offensive problems arent just a Rondo issue.

Nelson-Rondo
Wright(UFA)-Amare
Crowder- emerge of Aminu/Jefferson/Charlie

Yeah what a sucking trade

We'll see if it was an upgrade at the end of the season. The natural move would've been to surround Ellis with shooters. As you know, the most talent doesn't mean the best fit. The 2003-2004 Mavs a perfect example of that.

LonghornDub · 02-23-2015, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

We'll see if it was an upgrade at the end of the season. The natural move would've been to surround Ellis with shooters.

Why would the "natural move" to fix one of the league's worst defenses be surrounding Ellis with "shooters"?

sefant77 · 02-23-2015, 06:26 PM

Because in his universe Barea plays "solid" defense and Harris is a great defender...

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Why would the "natural move" to fix one of the league's worst defenses be surrounding Ellis with "shooters"?

I was talking about the offense. And I didn't say the offense needed to be fixed. For us to keep our elite offense, that would be the natural thing to do. Though there are better shooters out there than Nelson. We needed a square peg and we traded for a round peg from an offensive standpoint.

sefant77 · 02-23-2015, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

As you know, the most talent doesn't mean the best fit. The 2003-2004 Mavs a perfect example of that.

Yeah you mean the team that was all offense and no defense?

So you just pretty much agreed with me, thanks.

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yeah you mean the team that was all offense and no defense?

So you just pretty much agreed with me, thanks.

And that team had weaknesses on offense as well. Walker and Jamison were not good enough from the perimeter. But yeah the defense was bad that year. We have Chandler this year though. I felt our defense was improving before the trade.

EricaLubarsky · 02-23-2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

And that team had weaknesses on offense as well. Walker and Jamison were not good enough from the perimeter. But yeah the defense was bad that year. We have Chandler this year though. I felt our defense was improving before the trade.

I'm glad your feelings were optimistic before the trade. I'm more concerned with our facts, though. Our defense wasn't good and was dropping when we traded for Rondo. Don't let facts get in the way of a good "feeling" though.

LonghornDub · 02-23-2015, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I was talking about the offense. And I didn't say the offense needed to be fixed. For us to keep our elite offense, that would be the natural thing to do. Though there are better shooters out there than Nelson. We needed a square peg and we traded for a round peg from an offensive standpoint.

Ok, then I don't understand your point. Keeping an "elite offense," whose stats were somewhat inflated by weak competition anyway, would be a pointless thing to do while sporting a bottom-10 defense.

Nobody's winning a championship with a defense so poor, even if the offense is the greatest one in NBA history.

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'm glad your feelings were optimistic before the trade. I'm more concerned with our facts, though. Our defense wasn't good and was dropping when we traded for Rondo. Don't let facts get in the way of a good "feeling" though.

So it doesn't matter if our offense goes way down with Rondo? As long as we improve on defense? I care about both sides of the floor. Defense may win championships but offense gives you an opportunity for the defense to make the difference. Without the offense, you got no chance.

EricaLubarsky · 02-23-2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

So it doesn't matter if our offense goes way down with Rondo? As long as we improve on defense? I care about both sides of the floor. Defense may win championships but offense gives you an opportunity for the defense to make the difference. Without the offense, you got no chance.

You just don't get it, do you?

LonghornDub · 02-23-2015, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

I felt our defense was improving before the trade.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on, but the numbers say you're wrong, and I can only assume the Mavs' decision to make the trade favored the numbers over your unsubstantiated gut feeling about defensive improvement.

The Rondo trade occurred on 12/18.

The Mavs had their three worst single-game defensive performances of the season (to that point), measured by DRtg, within two weeks of the trade (Phoenix on 12-5, Memphis on 12-9, NOP on 12-10).

Less than two weeks before the trade, the Mavs had their worst eFG% defensive performance of the entire season (Phoenix on 12-5).

In 8 out of the 9 games immediately preceding the trade, the Mavs had a DRtg of at least 107.8, and most of those games were well above that number. For reference, a DRtg of 107.8 would currently rank seventh worst in the league--and again, most of those nine games before the trade were significantly worse than that number.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...r_by=date_game

Bryan_Wilson · 02-23-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

So it doesn't matter if our offense goes way down with Rondo? As long as we improve on defense? I care about both sides of the floor. Defense may win championships but offense gives you an opportunity for the defense to make the difference. Without the offense, you got no chance.

I would think the only stat that matters is W-L. Before Rondo trade Mavs were 0-5 vs West playoff teams. After trade they are 4-4 against those same teams. To me we can only get better on Offense and the Defense is much better. You can try and argue how that team would have gotten better, but then why not argue the same for this current one? Why keep posting across multiple threads about Rondo's bad games but neglect to mention when he holds Westbrook to 18 off 6-23 shooting or keeping Harden to 17 when his prior 3 games were all 40+ points?

Underdog · 02-23-2015, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

So it doesn't matter if our offense goes way down with Rondo? As long as we improve on defense? I care about both sides of the floor. Defense may win championships but offense gives you an opportunity for the defense to make the difference. Without the offense, you got no chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You just don't get it, do you?

mavsfan1000 · 02-23-2015, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I would think the only stat that matters is W-L. Before Rondo trade Mavs were 0-5 vs West playoff teams. After trade they are 4-4 against those same teams. To me we can only get better on Offense and the Defense is much better. You can try and argue how that team would have gotten better, but then why not argue the same for this current one? Why keep posting across multiple threads about Rondo's bad games but neglect to mention when he holds Westbrook to 18 off 6-23 shooting or keeping Harden to 17 when his prior 3 games were all 40+ points?

All games matter.

Underdog · 02-23-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

All games matter.

But wins against quality teams matter more because those are the teams you face in the playoffs... I'm pretty sure you just missed that point.

sefant77 · 02-23-2015, 07:59 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...-theyre-trying

I hope they are working a lot together in the future...i really think he can help him.

sefant77 · 02-24-2015, 10:44 PM

And there is the first clash with RC...

Yeah if the desperate Knicks or Lakers throw 20m at him he is gone...i dont think we are matching...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMqmazGYBns

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/870...UepHc9YDathT7Q

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

And there is the first clash with RC...

Yeah if the desperate Knicks or Lakers throw 20m at him he is gone...i dont think we are matching...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMqmazGYBns

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/870...UepHc9YDathT7Q

If anyone offers more than 12, we'd be dumb to match.

Also, Raptors announcers. Yelling is part of the game. I've seen that move dozens of times including with Terry.

LSMF · 02-24-2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

And there is the first clash with RC...

Yeah if the desperate Knicks or Lakers throw 20m at him he is gone...i dont think we are matching...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMqmazGYBns

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/870...UepHc9YDathT7Q

The Knicks or Lakers can have him.

twelli · 02-24-2015, 11:10 PM

Not a lip reader, but I think Rondo said: "F... off"

yahyes · 02-24-2015, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If anyone offers more than 12, we'd be dumb to match.

Also, Raptors announcers. Yelling is part of the game. I've seen that move dozens of times including with Terry.

Back in 2011 Terry got chewed out by Carlisle. Then almost got into a fight with JJ. Yelling is apart of both points are valid. Besides I saw him in the 4th supporting the team.

mxr2000 · 02-24-2015, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

Back in 2011 Terry got chewed out by Carlisle. Then almost got into a fight with JJ. Yelling is apart of both points are valid. Besides I saw him in the 4th supporting the team.

remember that game, RC benched Terry and let JJ finish the game with a win for the Mav's and JJ was the factor for that win.

howdoesmydirktaste · 02-24-2015, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

We'll see if it was an upgrade at the end of the season. The natural move would've been to surround Ellis with shooters. As you know, the most talent doesn't mean the best fit. The 2003-2004 Mavs a perfect example of that.

So if we make it out of the first round this year, you'll shut up?

markus1234 · 02-24-2015, 11:41 PM

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...18318647169027

MavsFTR · 02-24-2015, 11:42 PM

All I'm going to say is, if Rondo repeatedly behaves like that, I wouldn't want him on this team either.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-24-2015, 11:47 PM

Rick is in the winning basketball games business. He was absolutely right in his reaction. You can't ignore coach. Such antics will get you benched every time.

However, from here on, both are going to have to work with each other.

And the reality is that Rondo has no one to be irritated at but himself.

Melonhead · 02-24-2015, 11:51 PM

It was mentioned on here but wasn't Rick against getting Rondo?

Rondo isn't the same type of player Terry is. Different outlooks and I'd think it'd affect Rondo differently.

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2015, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

It was mentioned on here but wasn't Rick against getting Rondo?

Rondo isn't the same type of player Terry is. Different outlooks and I'd think it'd affect Rondo differently.

Rumor

Also the idea that Rondo is somehow mystically and fundamentally different is all about hindsight. Terry was a punk who needed to be reigned in. Even in our championship season. The difference is time and the power of hindsight. The only variable? We don't know if Rondo will stop the pouting phase yet.

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2015, 11:58 PM

Dirks perspective seems about right

https://twitter.com/ballinwithbryan/...47112757858304

LSMF · 02-25-2015, 12:13 AM

Honestly when Rondo is on the floor I just hope he doesn't stink it up too much until Devin and JJ come in. *Shrugs*

LonghornDub · 02-25-2015, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

All I'm going to say is, if Rondo repeatedly behaves like that, I wouldn't want him on this team either.

RC did the right thing by benching him for the rest of the game, no question. I hope this will be a catalyst for improved participation from Rondo moving forward, but who knows.

iggymcfly · 02-25-2015, 02:43 AM

I can't believe there are still people defending this trade. Rondo's been SUCH a train wreck. From an offensive perspective, you could argue he's been the worst PG in the entire NBA since the trade to Dallas. 41% from the field AND the line with 3 turnovers a game? Wow. It's all worth it because he plays slightly above average defense at the least important defensive position on the floor though, right? Get your heads out of the sand, people. We have a great front office, but they screwed up big here, and killed what was a very promising season. Luckily, Dirk's declining very slowly, and the window should still be open next year if we cut this petulant child loose and pick up someone that actually fits the system.

iggymcfly · 02-25-2015, 02:55 AM

Rondo has the second-worst TS% of any player in the last 10 years to take at least 400 shots:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...order_by_asc=Y

And those numbers are even worse since he started playing for the offense that was the best of all-time before he arrived! He's absolutely horrible. Any team would be crazy to pay him $10MM a year. I can't think of one team in the NBA where he'd be useful as the starter. Any team bad enough on offense that he wouldn't bring them down would be better off just developing a younger player since they're obviously not going anywhere any time soon anyway.

I guess the Lakers could be a good fit for Rondo on a 1-year deal since they're hamstrung by the Kobe contract anyway so they could double down on the "hidden tank" strategy, guaranteeing themselves a Top-5 draft pick and tons of cap room going into the 2016 offseason.