2018 NBA Draft

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Pisses me off so much. I just fired off an email to Mark Cuban about it.

Hawks won today too. If the Mavs had any common sense, they would of taken their L last night & today they'd be in a virtual tie for the worst record in the league.

Mark Cuban can't do anything about players wanting to win... And why wouldn't they? They don't benefit from losing -- some of these guys are going to be FAs this summer, and none of them aside from Barnes/Powell/Dennis are guaranteed contracts past next season.

And it's not like you can bench all the vets without a good reason either -- their next payday depends on the minutes they play now. If you bench them, then no veteran FAs are gonna want to play here.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Mark Cuban can't do anything about players wanting to win... And why wouldn't they? They don't benefit from losing -- some of these guys are going to be FAs this summer, and none of them aside from Barnes/Powell/Dennis are guaranteed contracts past next season.

And it's not like you can bench all the vets without a good reason either -- their next payday depends on the minutes they play now. If you bench them, then no veteran FAs are gonna want to play here.

I don’t think it’s that black and white. Players aren’t going to not sign here because Harrison Barnes got some rest days or JJB didn’t play in the 2nd half of a meaningless February game. They likely wouldn’t even know the difference. Doing the right thing in their instance is almost like doing it in a vacuum. Our “culture” hasn’t tangibly benefited us in any significant way since 2011. What we’ve seen is that star players want to play with other star players. More significantly their buddies. Which made it harder for us to lure another star to play with Dirk. Do the players all know that RC is one of the best coaches and that Cuban is a “cool dude”. Of course. But these star types make their own rules. If Westbrook and George want Donovan gone he’s gone tmrw.

The best way to lure a future star FA is to lose this season as much as humanly possible and have two young foundation pieces for 2020 or 2022 or whenever it is that we have a legit shot at the superstar FA. That or have the assets to trade for him.

If everyone is on the same page there are subtle ways to tank. We don’t have to bench all the vets. I think they have to two strong personalities and a yes man in charge. It’s lead to a series of mistakes and half measures.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don’t think it’s that black and white. Players aren’t going to not sign here because Harrison Barnes got some rest days or JJB didn’t play in the 2nd half of a meaningless February game. They likely wouldn’t even know the difference. Doing the right thing in their instance is almost like doing it in a vacuum. Our “culture” hasn’t tangibly benefited us in any significant way since 2011. What we’ve seen is that star players want to play with other star players. More significantly their buddies. Which made it harder for us to lure another star to play with Dirk. Do the players all know that RC is one of the best coaches and that Cuban is a “cool dude”. Of course. But these star types make their own rules. If Westbrook and George want Donovan gone he’s gone tmrw.

The best way to lure a future star FA is to lose this season as much as humanly possible and have two young foundation pieces for 2020 or 2022 or whenever it is that we have a legit shot at the superstar FA. That or have the assets to trade for him.

If everyone is on the same page there are subtle ways to tank. We don’t have to bench all the vets. I think they have to two strong personalities and a yes man in charge. It’s lead to a series of mistakes and half measures.

I just don't get how you guys can be so butthurt about winning 1 game to a team that's legitimately worse than us after a 5-game losing streak... How would we have lost this game? Sit Barea more?? He shot 2-12 and had 3 TOs... I mean, we STARTED Dwight Powell -- that's a strong tank move right there... Motley was a DNP, but I don't see how playing him would have hurt us... Literally the only thing we could have done to make ourselves worse would be to bench Barnes for McRoberts, and there's absolutely nothing subtle about that.

The truth is that there's not a damn thing the coach, owner, or GM could have done to drop that game... And if you don't think they're doing everything within their power to lose games this season, then ask yourself why Noel can't get any burn when he's the best center on the roster (we let Odom play through worse)... Or why Curry is STILL out when his injury was only supposed to sideline him for a couple weeks... Honestly, this team probably has no business getting a top-5 pick in the draft, but here we are at #4 with the ASB right around the corner.

We're gonna win a couple here and there, no point in getting bent out of shape about it -- it's not like we're gonna close out the season on a 30-game losing streak.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I just don't get how you guys can be so butthurt about winning 1 game to a team that's legitimately worse than us after a 5-game losing streak... How would we have lost this game? Sit Barea more?? He shot 2-12 and had 3 TOs... I mean, we STARTED Dwight Powell -- that's a strong tank move right there... Motley was a DNP, but I don't see how playing him would have hurt us... Literally the only thing we could have done to make ourselves worse would be to bench Barnes for McRoberts, and there's absolutely nothing subtle about that.

The truth is that there's not a damn thing the coach, owner, or GM could have done to drop that game... And if you don't think they're doing everything within their power to lose games this season, then ask yourself why Noel can't get any burn when he's the best center on the roster (we let Odom play through worse)... Or why Curry is STILL out when his injury was only supposed to sideline him for a couple weeks... Honestly, this team probably has no business getting a top-5 pick in the draft, but here we are at #4 with the ASB right around the corner.

We're gonna win a couple here and there, no point in getting bent out of shape about it -- it's not like we're gonna close out the season on a 30-game losing streak.

I'm starting to think you didn't watch last night's game. There's a reason I posted I hate Devin Harris, JJ Barea, and Yogi Ferrell. That loss was right there for the taking last night. Through 3 quarters we allow Sacramento to shoot 64%, we're on the road, we're down by 4 going into the 4th. Carlisle could of coached us to a loss from there. Geez. We go on a 16-0 run to start the 4th???

Call a timeout. Put Devin Harris on the bench. If you've watched any Mavs basketball the last 3-4 weeks, when the Mavs are struggling, he'll come in & score a bucket or two & get them back in it. I hate him. Yogi Ferrell. Cut Yogi Ferrell. Even as Sacramento was making a late push to get back into that game last night, Yogi outworks 3 Kings for a rebound and then finds an open Mav for the assist. I hate him.

Harris, Ferrell, and Barea spell BAD NEWS for the Mavs tanking efforts. Barea could of been sat for this game with a lingering oblique issue. He shouldn't of been on the court. When Dallas starts getting out ahead, call timeout and put Harris & Ferrell on the bench. Do something. Don't just sit there & win the game. That sucks.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I'm starting to think you didn't watch last night's game. There's a reason I posted I hate Devin Harris, JJ Barea, and Yogi Ferrell. That loss was right there for the taking last night. Through 3 quarters we allow Sacramento to shoot 64%, we're on the road, we're down by 4 going into the 4th. Carlisle could of coached us to a loss from there. Geez. We go on a 16-0 run to start the 4th???

Call a timeout. Put Devin Harris on the bench. If you've watched any Mavs basketball the last 3-4 weeks, when the Mavs are struggling, he'll come in & score a bucket or two & get them back in it. I hate him. Yogi Ferrell. Cut Yogi Ferrell. Even as Sacramento was making a late push to get back into that game last night, Yogi outworks 3 Kings for a rebound and then finds an open Mav for the assist. I hate him.

Harris, Ferrell, and Barea spell BAD NEWS for the Mavs tanking efforts. Barea could of been sat for this game with a lingering oblique issue. He shouldn't of been on the court. When Dallas starts getting out ahead, call timeout and put Harris & Ferrell on the bench. Do something. Don't just sit there & win the game. That sucks.

So basically cut or bench all of our guards other than Dennis?

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So basically cut or bench all of our guards other than Dennis?

I understand the options are limited. For what it's worth, I like playing Wes Matthews. I think he's streaky & can shoot us right out of a game like he did vs PHX. That was beautiful!

You can't bench or cut all of the guards. But, you don't have to play all the veteran guards in the same game, either. Having Motley play instead of one of those 3 (Barea, Ferrell, or Harris) would of increased the Mavs chances of losing vs SAC. Also, would be nice to have Collinsworth up here for the rest of the year. I'd rather see him get those minutes, even if he led the Mavs to a win, we'd be seeing what he has. I doubt 3 years from now Barea, Farrell or Harris are still around, but Collinsworth could be if he's a player.

That said, it's over & done with. Let's just hope we see the Mavs start trying to tank some games; especially vs the rest of the teams at the bottom of the standings.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I'm starting to think you didn't watch last night's game. There's a reason I posted I hate Devin Harris, JJ Barea, and Yogi Ferrell. That loss was right there for the taking last night. Through 3 quarters we allow Sacramento to shoot 64%, we're on the road, we're down by 4 going into the 4th. Carlisle could of coached us to a loss from there. Geez. We go on a 16-0 run to start the 4th???

Call a timeout. Put Devin Harris on the bench. If you've watched any Mavs basketball the last 3-4 weeks, when the Mavs are struggling, he'll come in & score a bucket or two & get them back in it. I hate him. Yogi Ferrell. Cut Yogi Ferrell. Even as Sacramento was making a late push to get back into that game last night, Yogi outworks 3 Kings for a rebound and then finds an open Mav for the assist. I hate him.

Harris, Ferrell, and Barea spell BAD NEWS for the Mavs tanking efforts. Barea could of been sat for this game with a lingering oblique issue. He shouldn't of been on the court. When Dallas starts getting out ahead, call timeout and put Harris & Ferrell on the bench. Do something. Don't just sit there & win the game. That sucks.

So you're upset that our undrafted PG out hustled the other team for a rebound? I think we all want the best draft pick possible, it you can't expect a bunch of professional athletes to try and lose on purpose. It's not in their DNA. It's not in Rick's either. You also don't call a timeout when your team is on a 16-0 run. That's the other teams job.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by BPo001

So you're upset that our undrafted PG out hustled the other team for a rebound? I think we all want the best draft pick possible, it you can't expect a bunch of professional athletes to try and lose on purpose. It's not in their DNA. It's not in Rick's either. You also don't call a timeout when your team is on a 16-0 run. That's the other teams job.

Also, anyone wanting Carlisle to "coach us to a loss" objectively doesn't understand tanking.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Also, anyone wanting Carlisle to "coach us to a loss" objectively doesn't understand tanking.

Not sure what you mean. All I've asked for is the occasional sitting of vets. Or giving them less minutes some games. No one is asking for Carlisle to intentionally throw games.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Also, anyone wanting Carlisle to "coach us to a loss" objectively doesn't understand tanking.

Like 3 weeks ago, Willie Cauley-Stein shot 6 or 7 mid range jump shots in the 4th quarter of close game the Kings were playing. A coach not trying to tank would of pulled him before he was able to miss that many shots. Cauley-Stein has actually developed a nice mid range jump shot. I was able to see that Saturday night vs the Mavs, instead of read a play-by-play from a box score. Still Cauley-Stein's game is not shooting.

There are definitely ways to coach a team to a loss & yeah I think Carlisle should be trying to do that.

Carlisle is smart. Why does it matter if the Mavs win 26 games this year or 29?

You can say, "Oh well, you can't turn off that winning spirit. It either stays on or it doesn't". I'd argue that with 2 seconds left in the 4th qtr & your team is down by 2 pts, if a shooter misses his first free throw the objective thing to do is to try & miss the 2nd free throw on purpose to try & give yourself a better chance to win by getting the rebound. What's the difference? Aren't you suppose to try and make every free throw that you take? Or is it smarter to look at the big picture?

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by BPo001

So you're upset that our undrafted PG out hustled the other team for a rebound? I think we all want the best draft pick possible, it you can't expect a bunch of professional athletes to try and lose on purpose. It's not in their DNA. It's not in Rick's either. You also don't call a timeout when your team is on a 16-0 run. That's the other teams job.

I can't hold any ill will towards Yogi Ferrell for playing his best. As far as the players are concerned, they should play their best every time they're on the floor.

Carlisle is a different story, imo. Either the front office has a conversation with Carlisle about the best course for the organization, or they make moves (such as cutting Ferrell), so that he doesn't have the ammunition to effect the tank. Doesn't matter to me how they do it, just get it done. TANK.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Mark Cuban can't do anything about players wanting to win...

And it's not like you can bench all the vets without a good reason either...

Cuban can force a trade, cut a guy, call up Motley. There's a ton that Mark Cuban can do.

"You can't bench vets without a good reason" So, what were the Kings doing 3 weeks ago when they sat 2 of the following players George Hill, Vince Carter, Zach Randolph, or Garrett Temple for every game?

"Or no veteran free agents will want to sign here" Maybe drafting Luka Doncic instead of Mikal Bridges is more valuable than veteran free agents.

Least of all, Barea had an oblique injury. If the Mavs were smart, they would of kept him out of the Sacramento game.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Cuban can force a trade, cut a guy, call up Motley. There's a ton that Mark Cuban can do.

"You can't bench vets without a good reason" So, what were the Kings doing 3 weeks ago when they sat 2 of the following players George Hill, Vince Carter, Zach Randolph, or Garrett Temple for every game?

"Or no veteran free agents will want to sign here" Maybe drafting Luka Doncic instead of Mikal Bridges is more valuable than veteran free agents.

Least of all, Barea had an oblique injury. If the Mavs were smart, they would of kept him out of the Sacramento game.

Motley did get called up, the Mavs are trying to make a trade, and who the hell are you going to cut? The players who are winning games for us aren't the guys you can or want to cut... Noel didn't win this for us... McRoberts didn't win this for us... And I keep hearing about Barea, but once again, he shot 2-12 and had 3 TOs -- he's not the reason we won this game.

And, yeah, Sacramento sits vets to tank -- that's why George Hill is trying to force his way out (like Boogie) and no FAs want to play for the Kings unless they're the only team left with cap space... If that's the franchise you want to model yourself after, then expect similar results.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Motley did get called up, the Mavs are trying to make a trade, and who the hell are you going to cut? The players who are winning games for us aren't the guys you can or want to cut... Noel didn't win this for us... McRoberts didn't win this for us... And I keep hearing about Barea, but once again, he shot 2-12 and had 3 TOs -- he's not the reason we won this game.

And, yeah, Sacramento sits vets to tank -- that's why George Hill is trying to force his way out and no FAs want to play for the Kings unless they're the only team left with cap space... If that's the franchise you want to model yourself after, then expect similar results.

FAs don't care about whether or not the Mavs tanked to get a top pick. JJ Redick signed with Philly this year, and they wrote the book on tanking. That's a non-issue. What will impact signing free agents is the difference between the Mavs drafting DeAndre Ayton and Wendell Carter Jr. That'll have an impact on whether DSJ re-signs with the Mavs when the time comes too.

Also, Barea had 11 assists last night. He had a big part in the Mavs comeback. Did you see the #s they showed on the telecast last night about how Powell plays with & without Barea on the floor? Barea should of sat last night.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

FAs don't care about whether or not the Mavs tanked to get a top pick. JJ Redick signed with Philly this year, and they wrote the book on tanking. That's a non-issue. What will impact signing free agents is the difference between the Mavs drafting DeAndre Ayton and Wendell Carter Jr. That'll have an impact on whether DSJ re-signs with the Mavs when the time comes too.

Also, Barea had 11 assists last night. He had a big part in the Mavs comeback. Did you see the #s they showed on the telecast last night about how Powell plays with & without Barea on the floor? Barea should of sat last night.

Do you seriously think that winning one game with 30 left is going to be the difference between getting DeAndre Ayton or Wendell Carter? We only dropped from #3 to #4, and we still suck. We were at #4 a week ago -- pretty much nothing has changed. It's not like we just went on a 10-game winning streak. Chill.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Do you seriously think that winning one game with 30 left is going to be the difference between getting DeAndre Ayton or Wendell Carter? We only dropped from #3 to #4, and we still suck. We were at #4 a week ago -- pretty much nothing has changed. It's not like we just went on a 10-game winning streak. Chill.

It's not about the win as much as it is about the Mavs showing they're not trying to tank. If they don't try to tank, then they could slide into a bad pick. I still think even if they don't try to tank they're so bad they'll end up with a top 6 pick, but even with a top 6 pick, there could be a big difference between drafting Ayton/Doncic & whoever you take at 6.

Would of been nice to lose to Sacramento too.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by Underdog

... I keep hearing about Barea, but once again, he shot 2-12 and had 3 TOs -- he's not the reason we won this game...

A couple notes I heard today about Saturday's game with the Kings:

1) Barea was +17 for the game. The highest total for any Mavs' player

2) With Barea & Powell on the floor together the Mavs outscored the Kings 46-27

Yeah, I'd say Barea is the reason the Mavs won the game, and it pisses me off that they didn't sit him another game with his oblique injury. That's totally inexcusable!