Wait....what?? Marion to Dallas?

[thereaper]

"Rasheed Wallace played exactly one game as a member of the Atlanta Hawks in 2003-04. The Blazers traded him to Atlanta along with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Dan Dickau. He scored 20 points in his lone appearance as a Hawk and was then traded to Detroit as part of a three-team deal with Boston. In Detroit he found his greatest success, which included an NBA championship.

Don't be surprised if Shawn Marion's career notes include a similar story.

The rumors floating around - published and unpublished - suggest that the HEAT aren't planning to keep Shawn Marion.

One version of this rumor has the Dallas Mavericks involved. We've heard that it might be as part of a three-team deal that would land Jason Kidd in Dallas (the Mavs don't need Marion when they have Josh Howard), but then we've also heard that it might just be with Dallas. The issue with this particular rumor is that the Mavericks have been adamant in saying they're not dealing Howard or Devin Harris - and one of them would certainly have to go if the team were to acquire either Kidd or Marion. Avery Johnson denies his team is looking at any trades and Mark Cuban refuted this rumor specifically, saying he has not spoken with the HEAT at all. The Mavericks are pretty straightforward in these matters. If they say they're not dealing, they most likely aren't."

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7323


I'm curious as to what Miami would (could) want from us for Marion, but I'm interested... Boy would that piss off Suns fans...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by thereaper

"Rasheed Wallace played exactly one game as a member of the Atlanta Hawks in 2003-04. The Blazers traded him to Atlanta along with Wesley Person for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Theo Ratliff, and Dan Dickau. He scored 20 points in his lone appearance as a Hawk and was then traded to Detroit as part of a three-team deal with Boston. In Detroit he found his greatest success, which included an NBA championship.

Don't be surprised if Shawn Marion's career notes include a similar story.

The rumors floating around - published and unpublished - suggest that the HEAT aren't planning to keep Shawn Marion.

One version of this rumor has the Dallas Mavericks involved. We've heard that it might be as part of a three-team deal that would land Jason Kidd in Dallas (the Mavs don't need Marion when they have Josh Howard), but then we've also heard that it might just be with Dallas. The issue with this particular rumor is that the Mavericks have been adamant in saying they're not dealing Howard or Devin Harris - and one of them would certainly have to go if the team were to acquire either Kidd or Marion. Avery Johnson denies his team is looking at any trades and Mark Cuban refuted this rumor specifically, saying he has not spoken with the HEAT at all. The Mavericks are pretty straightforward in these matters. If they say they're not dealing, they most likely aren't."

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7323


I'm curious as to what Miami would (could) want from us for Marion, but I'm interested... Boy would that piss off Suns fans...

Anyone but Dirk or Devin (but only because of position...)

Doubt this would happen, but it would be a sweetly ironic way to win a title... (besides - Miami owes us after stealing one!)

[BGMaverick9]

Josh, KVH contract, George, Hassell, Ager...any of that for him works for me.

[Dirkenstien]

Wow. I don't know what I'd do if we got Marion. It would be even sneakier than the way the Suns stole Nash from us. SWEET REVENGE!

I love Howard and Harris but would definitely trade either of them for Marion. He would instantly become our best defender. KVH + Howard/Harris for Marion works. It would give Miami a guy to build around with Dywane and also give them cap room with the expiring contract.

Damp / Diop
Dirk / Bass
Marion / George
Stack / Jones
Harris / Barea

OR if we traded Harris plus KVH's contract

Damp / Diop
Dirk / Bass
Marion / Jones / George
Howard / Stackhouse
Terry / Barea

Geesh. Both of those lineups are stout but I reeeaaally like that second one.

[Flacolaco]

Good lord it's starting to get worse than the off-season around here...

[Dirkenstien]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Good lord it's starting to get worse than the off-season around here...

Heh, I love it!

[dalmations202]

The big question is --- What does Miami want for him?

Can Dallas acquire him without parting with DH, JHo, Dirk?

If Dallas has to move one of these three, then your upgrade, IMO, is minimal at best.

[MavsX]

agree with Dal ^

i like him by the way

[AxdemxO]

wow talk about people overrating some of out players on here. I would give Harris, Jet or Josh easily for Marion....

[Dirkenstien]

Yeah Marion clearly is a better player than Josh and Harris but for some reason I wouldn't be as comfortable trading Josh in that deal.

As of now I would trade Devin, though. Not because I don't value his contributions the Mavericks as much but because I think we have a better chance of winning with Howar and Marion lining up together than with Harris and Marion.

edit: Jet is a no brainer but I don't think there's any way Miami would want him. He's not right for the rebuilding team.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I wouldn't trade either Harris or Howard. What exactly makes Marion so valuable again?

[skylive321]

ok, there comes a point where its cruel to toy with a fans' appetite.... and i'm salivating

[BGMaverick9]

He is valuable because he is multi-talented. He can defend up to 4 positions on the court, you could just ask Dirk. He is long, lean and fairly quick. He also has perimeter range.

Let me just go with this breakdown from hoopshype:
May very well be the best athlete in the league... Outstanding leaping skills... Jumps high and many times in a short period of time... That's a good thing if you want to grab a rebound... At 6-7, he grabs almost 10 per night... Ugly shooting mechanic... His accuracy is good... Drives to the basket without fear... Runs the floor with the best of them... Great defender... Guards multiple positions... Never gets tired... Quite an underrated player.

Sounds pretty good to me. I would offer Josh (no dirk or devin) and KVH and filler for him. Whatever the deal is, Marion is the only player coming back due to CBA agreement with players who just got traded. We can send a package of players, but he is the only one coming back, unless you make a separate deal.
The only issue I have is can you sign him to an extension?

[suns]

Well I am a Suns fan and I don't really know what the future holds for us now. The Mavs are my second team and hope you guys get Marion because I do believe he could help the Mavs get their title. Gosh we hated to see him go!!!!!

[kg_veteran]

I don't see any way this ever happens unless Miami is willing to take expiring contracts and first rounders. I sincerely doubt that they are. If they were, though, I think this might be a trade that Cuban would break the bank for, for a number of reasons.

Damp
Nowitzki
Marion
Howard
Harris

Talk about a pipe dream!

[nashtymavsfan13]

I like our team.

[horse900703]

We need a good center!!! NOT a forward!!

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

I like our team.

Not as much as the lineup KG just listed above... No way as much as that!

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by horse900703

We need a good center!!! NOT a forward!!

We need better defense and rebounding from our 3 - something that adding marion and starting Josh at the 2 with Devin, Dirk, and Damp would give us. NO WAY in hell they take back expiring contracts and picks for him, but damn what a dream that would be.

Then what if Dallas really got brave and traded for Kidd.

[horse900703]

Originally Posted by Male26Dan

We need better defense and rebounding from our 3 - something that adding marion and starting Josh at the 2 with Devin, Dirk, and Damp would give us. NO WAY in hell they take back expiring contracts and picks for him, but damn what a dream that would be.

Then what if Dallas really got brave and traded for Kidd.

UM... RIGHT!!!!

[TomThaMavsFan]

if the mavs could swing Jwill as part of the deal , they're set for a finals run, but as far as the Mavs go, they're probably gonna stand pact because they like their team...

[bobatundi]

y'all are leaving out one important data point:

MARION IS A BIG GIANT DOUCHE

that said, if we could get him for garbage--or for Terry--I'd do it. wouldn't give up harris or josh though. harris makes our offense work, and josh...well, i'm a josh homer, i think he's greatness.

[BGMaverick9]

He has been a little fiesty with his attitude but he has a chip on his shoulder. He feels he didn't get the credit he deserved in Phoenix.

They're not going to take Jet in the deal. I would trade Josh for Marion, Marion does more in the intangibles department. He is extremely versatile as well.

[bobatundi]

josh is so much more ghetto. our team needs that. plus, he doesn't shoot from waist height like marion. seriously, how does he not get every single shot blocked?

[BGMaverick9]

Right....
I do agree with you with his mechanics, they are ugly...but they work.

Going off of stats for this year, which is arguably Josh's best statistical years:
Other than PPG (Josh), Assists (Tie), FTs and 3s (Josh)
Marion has him on the boards, blocks, steals, and shooting percentage. I think he just offers more to the table than Josh does.

[cjbcool]

Shawn Marion is a great athlete. You can not deny that. A better defender that Josh, and a better rebounder. But other than that what benefit will it be to us. he does the same things that Josh does. Some better some not.
I am also against trading Harris for him. Harris was starting to peak. He was showing flashes of the reason that we dafted him so high. His game was reaching a new level. Avery is a point guard, even still. He wont trade Harris.

[BGMaverick9]

Josh can't guard 4 positions on a consistent basis. And as you mentioned, defend better and rebound better. I think that qualifies enough to be a benefit to the Mavs.

Out of Dirk, Josh and Devin for Marion. It's only Josh that would be available.

[cjbcool]

Josh Howard will make less than a Million next year.
Shawn Marion will make 17.2
That is why it wont benefit the MAVS.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by cjbcool

Josh Howard will make less than a Million next year.
Shawn Marion will make 17.2
That is why it wont benefit the MAVS.

You might have mis-typed but you are off on your numbers there. Howard makes 9.5 milion this year with a 10% increase next.

[cjbcool]

Cant find the page, but I was wrong.
Either way, marion is going to cost more. Why pay this guy more money to do some of the same things another player does at a cheaper price. Not to mention the style of play.

[randyman]

Alot of people (including myself) have worked up trades that include a KVH contract to make the numbers work.

I believe Cuban has gone on the record as saying that they will not use a KVH contract at all because of the luxury tax issue. We are already at or over the limit right now. Using it would be really expensive since it would be guaranteed to be doubled in payroll no matter how it was used.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I wouldn't trade either Harris or Howard. What exactly makes Marion so valuable again?

Nash's passes. He would not be as good in our system as he was in Phoenix. He needs to run in open spaces and shoot in open spaces to have that kind of efficiency, but our team just does not provide that. He will have to CREATE his own offense with us. Now if we had Kidd also, that is another story. HELLO NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

[Mavs Rule]

Originally Posted by randyman

Alot of people (including myself) have worked up trades that include a KVH contract to make the numbers work.

I believe Cuban has gone on the record as saying that they will not use a KVH contract at all because of the luxury tax issue. We are already at or over the limit right now. Using it would be really expensive since it would be guaranteed to be doubled in payroll no matter how it was used.

Courtesy of ESPN:

Teams talking trade with the Mavs these days naturally try to convince them to make all the complications go away by turning the rights they still hold to Keith Van Horn into an expiring contract, as described in Box 3.

The Mavs could actually make a trade for Kidd much easier if they were willing to throw a signed-and-traded Van Horn in to satisfy salary-cap requirements. That would amount to Van Horn getting a three-year deal with only the first year guaranteed … at a healthy $11.7 million. Package Van Horn with Harris and perhaps more salary-cap filler and the Nets would get good cap relief along with an on-the-rise point guard to replace Kidd, and Dallas would have its mega-trade answer to the Gasol and Shaq deals.

Only one problem.

Although he still refuses to address the prospect of trading for Kidd without chastising or mocking any reporter who dares to ask, Cuban did tell ESPN.com very clearly that "we won't use [Van Horn] in any deal for anyone."

Reason being: If Dallas did so in the scenario described above, Kidd would cost them nearly $40 million next season thanks to the luxury tax.

• One unintended consequence of the Suns acquiring O'Neal is that it might further complicate Dallas' ability to trade for Kidd. The Mavs, as stated above, were hesitant to part with Bass or Diop before Phoenix got Shaq. With the Lakers getting Pau Gasol and the Suns adding size for the first time in the Steve Nash Era, this probably isn't the time to go small.



Our own Henry Abbott of TrueHoop compiled a handy list this week of all the players who are out of the league at present but whose rights are held by the team they last played for. This happens as long as the player doesn't sign somewhere else or notify the league that he's retiring and if the ex-team chooses not to renounce its rights to the player.

Teams that want to create as much salary-cap space as possible will usually renounce such players. But it's clearly useful for teams -- since they're always trying to find creative ways of obtaining expensive players -- to keep the rights to a former player or two in this manner just in case they need one more piece to make the salary-cap math work on a trade, as seen with L.A. and McKie.

There are also four such players at present who are truly special. They're the ones who haven't officially retired and whose last NBA salaries were high enough that they can be re-signed by their most recent employer for a very substantial amount … and then added to a trade as an on-the-spot expiring contract without base-year compensation rules kicking in.

Players who are signed and traded must sign a three-year deal. But only the first year is guaranteed, creating an expiring-contract effect. That means Minnesota (Latrell Sprewell), Dallas (Keith Van Horn), Chicago (P.J. Brown) and Indiana (Rik Smits) all possess a very valuable trade chip if they can find a way (yes, we jest) to convince the ex-player, like McKie, to take a lucrative handout without anyone expecting him to do anything more than sit at home and start waiting for the checks.

So why haven't we seen, say, Indiana take advantage, considering Smits last played in 1999-2000, meaning that the Pacers have had this option for some time? Luxury-tax concerns, as usual, are the deterrent, as explained in Box 1 with Dallas and Van Horn. If the Mavs were to use Van Horn as the primary piece in a Kidd trade, without sending out more long-term salary besides point guard Devin Harris, Kidd would almost be a $40 million player next season, costing Dallas nearly double his $21.4 million salary.

The Fab Four Retirees
Player Last Team Last NBA Salary Maximum Salary*
Latrell Sprewell Minnesota $14,625,000 in 2004-05 $17,550,000
Keith Van Horn Dallas $15,694,250 in 2005-06 $16,478,962
Rik Smits Indiana $12,250,000 in 1999-2000 $14,700,000
P.J. Brown Chicago $8,560,000 in 2006-07 $10,272,000
*Maximum salary represents the most each of these players could receive in the first year of a new three-year contract.

[DirkFTW]

The thought of seeing that ugly shot every game makes me cringe.

[cinemablend]

The Mavs can't trade Harris for Marion. At this point, with the way Terry is playing the ONLY way the Mavs can trade Harris is if they get another point guard in return. So forget that.

Josh for Marion... that I do. Sorry, I love Josh... but Marion is exactly like Josh except slightly better in every aspect of the game... and a LOT better as a finisher. And... he plays more than one quarter per game.

[Dirkenstien]

If you trade Howard for Marion then you don't upgrade enough to give yourself that edge. But if you pair Howard and Marion together I think that's enough to strike fear into any opposing team in the NBA.

That would be a tough duo to match up with, let alone while trying to stop the blonde bomber.

[cinemablend]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

If you trade Howard for Marion then you don't upgrade enough to give yourself that edge. But if you pair Howard and Marion together I think that's enough to strike fear into any opposing team in the NBA.

You at least get someone who can finish around the basket in Marion... which Josh Howard no longer is.

You're trading a jump shooter for a guy who can dunk. Marion may only be slightly better than Howard, but that's a dimension the Mavs DESPERATELY need. Yeah I'd rather have Marion AND Howard, but if you can't do that, then trade Howard for Marion.

Now is the time to trade Howard. His value will never be higher... and it's becoming increasingly clear that he cannot provide what this team needs.

[adirktotheheart]

So you trade Howard for Marion who's gone after the season. You trade a rising star who's signed to a reasonable contract for another 3 years and a bit for a few months of Marion. Brilliant....

[rabbitproof]

ANYYYYYYYYYYYY way we can do it without Dev/Dirk/Josh??

KVH/Bass/Diop/George/Ager/#1s/kayash?

That's primo cap relief, a couple of youngs (Marion can spot at the 4 behind Dirk) and some goodies. Rebuilders' starter kit.....

[horse900703]

How old is Marion?