09-17-2008, 09:24 PM
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#41
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
I'm saying he's not as good as he used to be... there were many times last season when I cringed when he took a shot. He had some pretty nasty slumps.
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Okk i can understand that...but everyone goes through that including Dirk..KOBE (playoffs) and other great shooters. I have always felt that people underestimate what Jet brings to this team. The last couple of years have been tuff..yes...but they have been tuff for all the players. I just think this year will be a frsh start with Kidd here and a new coach and I expect great things
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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09-17-2008, 09:40 PM
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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honestly I'm not sure how much I'm liking JETS fit on this team anymore. I don't really like him playing the 2 with Kidd on the court (who would guard the 2s, Kidd? I think most of the SGs in the league are too young and fast for Kidd) and I don't like him taking the PG spot when Kidd is resting.
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09-17-2008, 09:50 PM
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#43
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
honestly I'm not sure how much I'm liking JETS fit on this team anymore. I don't really like him playing the 2 with Kidd on the court (who would guard the 2s, Kidd? I think most of the SGs in the league are too young and fast for Kidd) and I don't like him taking the PG spot when Kidd is resting.
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While I agree that Jet could use some more size, i completely disagree with you thinking that he cant get the job done. I think he will be great alongside Kidd and we will see his hooting at its best. I think when it comes to guarding SG's Kidd mite be a step slower but mentally hes 5 steps ahead of all of them and that helps a lot and I think we will see one of the younger guys Wright/Green get some of that too. Now I think JET is the perfect bakup to Kidd. The guy can score which is not exactly Kidds strength and he will do fine in the limited time he sees at pg when it comes to running the team. But I guess well see whn the season starts : )
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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09-17-2008, 10:04 PM
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#44
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,305
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Jet is now Stackhouse for this team (top 100 is ridiculous for an old, streaky, jumpshooting, two guard who is also undersized). But that said what does that make Stackhouse now? Well, he's an expiring... so trade bait at least. Gotta like that.
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09-17-2008, 10:10 PM
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#45
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Martin are better than Brandon Roy? Yeah right, pass the bong...
Would anyone here rather have either of those two players starting for us at the 2/3 spot instead of Roy? I definitely wouldn't. And where is Joe Johnson? Better be in that top 20, or I'm going to kill a man.
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09-17-2008, 11:00 PM
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#46
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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JET's a better fit now, since the Kidd trade, than he was before the Kidd trade. I honestly don't see how anyone can feel differently. Just to hit on the two most obvious things:
1) JET's a great catch-and-shoot guy. Before the trade, Dallas didn't have anyone who was particularly noteworthy at getting the ball to the open man. Now they've got one of the best.
2) JET's undersized. Before the trade, whenever Dallas wanted to play JET at the 2 they had to play very small in the backcourt, which made them unusually vulnerable to power players in the backcourt. Now, with Kidd, they can play JET at the 2 and not worry about having two guys on the court who are in danger of getting overpowered defensively. Having Kidd to pair with JET isn't exactly a bad thing in the rebounding game, either.
The concern about quick players is justified for the Mavs I think, but that's doesn't all fall on JET. The problem there is that the Mavs simply don't have ANY first-rate man-to-man defenders at the guard spots right now (though Kidd is still an excellent team defender).
And seriously, how many backup point guards are there in the NBA who you'd honestly rather have on the court than JET. Especially on this team as its currently constructed, where JET's your obvious number three scorer. Barbosa comes to mind, but that's about it.
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"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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09-17-2008, 11:06 PM
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#47
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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he might have been a worse fit before but that doesn't mean he's a good fit now. Idk it's just a shame JET isn't a little bigger. He isn't a point guard and he's too small to be a star SG.
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09-17-2008, 11:14 PM
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#48
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokey41
Jet is now Stackhouse for this team (top 100 is ridiculous for an old, streaky, jumpshooting, two guard who is also undersized). But that said what does that make Stackhouse now? Well, he's an expiring... so trade bait at least. Gotta like that.
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Yee keep hating..well seee
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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09-17-2008, 11:37 PM
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#49
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokey41
Jet is now Stackhouse for this team (top 100 is ridiculous for an old, streaky, jumpshooting, two guard who is also undersized). But that said what does that make Stackhouse now? Well, he's an expiring... so trade bait at least. Gotta like that.
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When's the last time the Mavericks traded an expiring contract? I thought Cuban was done with that?
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09-17-2008, 11:44 PM
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#50
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
he might have been a worse fit before but that doesn't mean he's a good fit now. Idk it's just a shame JET isn't a little bigger. He isn't a point guard and he's too small to be a star SG.
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I was just going off your statement that you didn't think he was a good fit "anymore". At any rate, that line on him (not a point, too short for a 2) gets repeated a lot, but the evidence is pretty incontrovertible at this point that what he is is a good NBA player. Good enough to start on a team that made it to the NBA finals one year, and won 67 regular season games the next, in fact. Granted, you can just as easily bring up how those teams fell short with him as a starter, but my counter is simply that the Mavs aren't likely to ask him to be a starter this year, but rather to be a sixth man. And unless he plays well below his career standard next year he should be quite good enough for that role.
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"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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09-18-2008, 12:10 AM
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#51
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
I was just going off your statement that you didn't think he was a good fit "anymore". At any rate, that line on him (not a point, too short for a 2) gets repeated a lot, but the evidence is pretty incontrovertible at this point that what he is is a good NBA player. Good enough to start on a team that made it to the NBA finals one year, and won 67 regular season games the next, in fact. Granted, you can just as easily bring up how those teams fell short with him as a starter, but my counter is simply that the Mavs aren't likely to ask him to be a starter this year, but rather to be a sixth man. And unless he plays well below his career standard next year he should be quite good enough for that role.
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the "anymore" part of it had more to do with his game dropping to lower levels. I structured that post poorly. You could say however that JET is a bad defender and Harris > Old Kidd on defense so Harris could cover up for JETs shortcomings better, but I think Kidd's knowledge and instinct on team defense makes up for him having slower feet than Harris.
anyway, JET would be a good fit now if he was as consistent and young as he was when he first got her.
Last edited by fluid.forty.one; 09-18-2008 at 12:14 AM.
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09-18-2008, 12:21 AM
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#52
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Even though I don't think JET is top-100, he's probably top-120 (which makes him better than 330 other players in the NBA...)
Jason Terry is going to be a great offensive spark off the bench in Carlisle's system, no matter where he ranks one-on-one with everyone else in the league (and that's all that matters!)
GO MAVS!!!
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 09-18-2008 at 12:22 AM.
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09-18-2008, 12:24 AM
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#53
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Even though I don't think JET is top-100, he's probably top-120 (which makes him better than 330 other players in the NBA...)
Jason Terry is going to be a great offensive spark off the bench in Carlisle's system, no matter where he ranks one-on-one with everyone else in the league (and that's all that matters!)
GO MAVS!!!
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Wow ok there you go ; )..althou I still say hes to 100
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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09-18-2008, 12:25 AM
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#54
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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I put a lot of the blame for JET's inconsistencies on Avery. Time will tell which of us has the better read.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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09-18-2008, 12:21 PM
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#55
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Jason Kidd's agent did not discuss a contract extension with Mark Cuban over the summer and the point guard is at peace with that.
"I'm OK with playing it out," said Kidd. "And I'm excited. I like my situation in Dallas. I have an owner who is aggressive, in the sense that he wants to win. So I'm confident we'll be pretty good. I'm sitting in a good seat."
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._an_extension/
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
Last edited by AxdemxO; 09-18-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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09-18-2008, 12:54 PM
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#56
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 5,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
You are out of your freaking mind my mann. A good argument can be made that Jet is in the top 50 there toward the end. But to say that hes not top 100..is just..well stupid
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I thought I was the only person who found that statement funny...
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Monta Ellis is an All-Star.
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09-19-2008, 08:10 AM
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#57
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,313
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People who want to ship off JET have always baffled me. He's literally the only decent non-German shooter we have.
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09-22-2008, 04:58 PM
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#58
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33
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That list sucks ass so I wouldn't put to much stock into it.
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09-24-2008, 12:13 PM
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#59
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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THIS list is something to consider
http://nbadraft.net/compositescoreexplaination.htm
josh and kidd are both viewed as top 30 players here. But it also calls PP the #3 player in the league last year
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Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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Last edited by nowhereman; 09-24-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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09-24-2008, 05:46 PM
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#60
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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PP being number 3 is not that far off when looking at his skills/stats. The guy can do everything and well not man players can guard him.
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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09-25-2008, 10:57 AM
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#61
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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i don't think the list adequately adjusts for team performance (kendrick perkins is NOT that good of a defensive performer), and the complaint is also raised in that link that sometimes a players numbers look better or worse because they have to guard a bad player or a good player every night.
But it is a good general indication that JHo and Kidd are still very productive players.
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Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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09-25-2008, 12:07 PM
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#62
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,086
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Didn't see this posted anywhere and thought it was a worthy read.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.17db03c.html
Quote:
Kidd faces crucial year with Dallas Mavericks
02:58 PM CDT on Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Training camp opens in five days, and Jason Kidd has things to do.
Pack bathing suit and beach shoes for quick trip to Cabo – check.
Make sure Olympic gold medal makes it to Dallas so photos can be taken with a Mavericks uniform – check.
Sign extension that allows him to finish his career in Dallas – on hold.
Tell the truth. Did you really believe the Mavericks would start camp without a loose end or two? Headaches are only a You Tube moment away.
But this issue, well, it's not an issue at all. The 35-year-old point guard feels strong mentally and physically and wants to play another three years. He wants to do that in a Mavericks uniform.
"I would love to finish where I started," Kidd said from his New York home Tuesday. "I accomplished half of what I didn't do my first time around in Dallas, which was make the playoffs.
"Now I would like to win a championship."
The Mavericks had a championship in mind when they traded for Kidd seven months ago. The scars from that colossal failure remain. There is too much uncertainty for either side to commit to a long-term relationship right now.
Kidd is in the final year of a contract that pays him $21.3 million. The end of last season does not allow his agent, Jeff Schwartz, to negotiate from a position of strength.
The Mavericks' front office believes former coach Avery Johnson was wrong about Kidd, hence the title former coach. They think Kidd has something left to give. But is owner Mark Cuban confident enough in that assessment to sign the future Hall of Fame guard to an extension?
No.
The first 3 ½ months of this season are crucial. If Kidd plays well and the team clicks under new coach Rick Carlisle, fears about moving into the future with an AARP point guard will subside.
But if this doesn't work, if Johnson turns out to be right, the Mavericks can move Kidd before the trade deadline in February. Even if Kidd's skills have declined, teams will be interested in the flexibility provided by his expiring contract.
The key here is the Mavericks must decide before the deadline. The club is so far over the salary cap that Kidd's contract gives them no relief. Keep him past the deadline and the team has no room to sign a replacement moving forward.
"I'm not so much thinking about the contract," Kidd said. "I will let the work speak for itself. If I go out and have a good season, then maybe Mark will talk to Jeff about the extension. My play will dictate what happens.
"That's why there were no talks, rumblings or anyone who was upset over the summer. It didn't make sense for either side."
Kidd knows he wasn't aggressive enough on offense in his return to the Mavericks. That's one of the topics he and Carlisle addressed when the two had dinner at an Italian restaurant in New York last week. He finds Carlisle's enthusiasm for this season contagious.
When Kidd was younger, he thought success was determined solely by athletic ability. Now, he knows it's about confidence.
He is confident about this season.
"I have one year left to play, and I will play it out," Kidd said. "I don't look on it as a bad thing. It's a great opportunity.
"If I play well, hopefully, I'll have a chance to get an extension and stay here."
That is what both sides had in mind when the deal was made.
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__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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09-29-2008, 05:18 PM
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#63
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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If anyone wants an update:
10. Yao Ming
11. Chris Bosh
12. Manu
13. Steve Nash
14. Elton Brand
15. Chauncey Billups
16. Carlos Boozer
17. Paul Pierce
18. Al Jefferson
19. Pau Gasol
20. Deron Williams
21. Gilbert Arenas
22. Carmelo Anthony, Denver
23. Kevin Martin, Sacramento
24. Andrew Bynum, L.A. Lakers
25. Tony Parker, San Antonio
26. Caron Butler, Washington
27. David West, New Orleans
28. Allen Iverson, Denver
29. Tracy McGrady, Houston
30. Baron Davis, L.A. Clippers
31. Brandon Roy, Portland
32. Josh Smith, Atlanta
33. Jose Calderon, Toronto
34. Rasheed Wallace, Detroit
35. Shawn Marion, Miami
36. Antawn Jamison, Washington
37. Monta Ellis, Golden State
38. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City
39. Rudy Gay, Memphis
40. Tyson Chandler, New Orleans
41. Corey Maggette, Golden State
42. Shane Battier, Houston
43. Ron Artest, Houston
44. Danny Granger, Indiana
45. T.J. Ford, Indiana
46. Michael Redd, Milwaukee
47. Gerald Wallace, Charlotte
48. Josh Howard, Dallas
49. Andre Iguodala, Philadelphia
50. Andris Biedrins, Golden State
9 players left. Pretty sure it comes down to:
Wade
CP3
Lebron
Kobe
Dirk
Duncan
Garnett
Stoudemire
Dwight Howard
and Joe Johnson, Jason Kidd, Andrei Kirilenko are notable omissions.
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Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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09-29-2008, 06:44 PM
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#64
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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.....
#1 Jason Kidd
Who wrote that list? an 8th grader?
Last edited by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs; 09-29-2008 at 06:44 PM.
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09-29-2008, 06:49 PM
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#65
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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no, the guy has some good objective analysis. he ranks t-mac pretty low based on a (relatively) advanced analysis of ts%. I think if he's a few spots off here or there, we can still earmark it as a decent barometer of where players stand entering this season.
but i think josh is too low, and joe johnson is god knows where. bynum and pau should both come down a peg.
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Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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09-30-2008, 07:25 AM
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#66
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,313
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My mind is exploding. Shane Battier is not better than Ray Allen.
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09-30-2008, 09:42 AM
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#67
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 336
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Best way to tell is just ask the other 25 teams if they would like to have him over their starting point guard. Enough said.
__________________
Dirk is already writing his memoirs called "One and Done".
I wouldn't say our window of opportunity is closed. It just turned into one of those small crank open bathroom windows!
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