CONFIRMED: Mavs make offer to Redd - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Blonde Bomber · 10-01-2002, 07:59 AM

DB.com Scoop: Bucks FA Given Offer

By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
Start the training camp but stop the presses: DallasBasketball.com has learned that the Mavericks have submitted an offer sheet to Michael Redd!
BUCKS LINKS
REDD PROFILE
“I don’t know if the Bucks will match,’’ says Mavs owner Mark Cuban, “but it is worth a try.’’
Meanwhile, the Mavs are on the other side of a similar situation with Wang Zhizhi, who received an offer sheet from the Clippers. In both situations, the original team has 15 days to match and retain. In the case of Wang, the Mavs have made it clear that he will not be lost without compensation. The Bucks are not on record as saying that about Redd, and reportedly are uncomfortable with paying a lux tax on him.
We first brought you the possibility of this move on September 25, but noted that most Mavs execs pooh-poohed the possibility of actually submitting an offer sheet to Redd because a $4.5 million-a-year contract would end up costing the luxury-taxed Mavs twice that.
Budget-conscious? Apparently not when it comes to the 6-6, 220-pounderselected by Milwaukee in the second round of the 2000 NBA Draft, who emerged as a commodity last season as he averaged 11.4 points and 21 minutes a game.
The Mavs sent the offer sheet late Monday night, and the amount is slightly below the $4.5 mil exception figure, we are told.
Indications from Milwaukee have always been that the Bucks will match the offer and retain the second-year shooting guard. But that was when it appeared he’d get no offer sheet. There is enough venom being swapped by the Bucks and Redd’s agents (the Poston brothers – ring a bell?) that it makes sense for Dallas to again attempt to portray the white knight.
Yes, in many ways this resembles the Rashard Lewis chase, especially in that it’s an unlikely but can’t-lose swing for the fences.
Redd would undoubtably be a talent fit here, so much so that he would likely vault over some of the play-a-likes on the Dallas roster. And the continuing consideration of a guy like Redd (along with the agreement with Raja Bell) raises questions about the health of Adrian Griffin’s back and Tariq Abdul-Wahad’s knee.
As with Wang, the possibility of a sign-and-trade to satisfy all parties is still possible in the Redd case.
The Mavs consider Redd a potentially useful defender, and he is unquestionably a 3-point ace, witness his NBA record for 3-pointers in a quarter, eight in the fourth against Houston last year. But is he a $9 million player?
He is now. Either as a Mav or as a Buck.

Blonde Bomber · 10-01-2002, 08:01 AM

I hope he does sign and Milwaukee does not match.
He would be a really good signing considering the health problems of Griffen and TAW.

MFFL · 10-01-2002, 08:26 AM

Great move by the Mavs.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-01-2002, 08:42 AM

So let me get this straight if Bucks match and sign him for over what the Mavs are offering that means Buck will be in luxury tax area? Would Milwaukee risk that to pay him double or would htey let him go in a sign and trade? Or would they just let him go?

Dooby · 10-01-2002, 08:48 AM

<< So let me get this straight if Bucks match and sign him for over what the Mavs are offering that means Buck will be in luxury tax area? Would Milwaukee risk that to pay him double or would htey let him go in a sign and trade? Or would they just let him go? >>

That is what we are going to find out in around 15 days. Although, I think the Bucks will make their intentions known in a day or two.

Drbio · 10-01-2002, 09:19 AM

I agree. Great move by the Mavs. I am surprised because Cuban said something about the salary cap preventing them from doing this earlier...damn...I fell for it again.

MavKikiNYC · 10-01-2002, 09:23 AM

Is Redd worth more than Wang though?

ocelot_ark · 10-01-2002, 09:25 AM

I'm not too optimistic about this. The next best guard on their team, after Allen, Cassell, and Redd would be...Laron Profit? Kevin Ollie? If the bucks let him walk, they'd have literally NO relief at the guard spot. I just don't see them letting him walk.

Doesn't hurt to try though...

Drbio · 10-01-2002, 09:28 AM

the point exactly ocelot...no risk/high reward. Same as Lewis.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-01-2002, 09:34 AM

<< the point exactly ocelot...no risk/high reward. Same as Lewis. >>

Thats the bad part. Same as Lewis. I dont see Bucks going over the cap to get him unless maybe its just me that they think more of Redd than I do. But I remember the guy killin us last season tho.

Dooby · 10-01-2002, 09:39 AM

<< Is Redd worth more than Wang though? >>

My feelings on Wang are known. I don't think Wang and Redd are mutually exclusive, but if I had to pick one, I'd take Redd right now. I don't believe in Wang's potential. Redd averaged more points/game; has played in more games; and played the US game in college. Plus he is 2 years younger.

FilthyFinMavs · 10-01-2002, 09:43 AM

<<

<< Is Redd worth more than Wang though? >>

My feelings on Wang are known. I don't think Wang and Redd are mutually exclusive, but if I had to pick one, I'd take Redd right now. I don't believe in Wang's potential. Redd averaged more points/game; has played in more games; and played the US game in college. Plus he is 2 years younger. >>

Lol this is exactly what ive been saying but i keep getting bashed for saying this. I think Wang could be a good player but I dont think he is gonna be anything mroe than what he is now. Id take Redd also and I didnt understand why others wouldnt either I assume its upside but Redd is also improvin too.

By the way isnt Redd a 2nd roudner too? Where are all these 2nd round guys comin from like Lewis and Redd and Mavs never seem to get 1 lol.

seelenjaeger · 10-01-2002, 09:51 AM

Do I hear Buckner?
Booth?
Eschmeyer?
Najera?

Bucks have LOADS of those 2nd rounders ...

MavsFanFinley · 10-01-2002, 09:58 AM

Everything happens while I'm asleep. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

Great move by the Mavs to have signed Redd to an offer sheet. Over the weekend there was a story out of Milwaukee that the Bucks were waiting on Redd's signature. Apparently he didn't like it. What has me wondering is what the Bucks offer was. I've been reading on the Bucks message board that our offer (intial reports) is 2 years for almost 9 million. Upside is it forces the Bucks to pay more for him than what they intended if they plan on keeping him. I'm not so sure they'll match, but I have a hard time believing they'll let him walk for nothing. The only downside I can think of is that with us making the offer is that the health of Griffin and TAW is worse than we thought.

Rhylan · 10-01-2002, 10:01 AM

Maybe the Poston boys will pay us back for making Rashard those extra millies.

MavKikiNYC · 10-01-2002, 10:06 AM

The present values of Wang and Redd are a lot closer than the future value of Wang v. Redd.

6-5 guys who can shoot 3s are not at nearly the same premium as 7-0 guys who can hit 3s and put the ball on the floor.

Add to that the fact that big men generally mature later physically, and take longer to fully develop the skill aspects of their games, PLUS the fact that Wang has not gotten the opportunity to compete against the highest level of competition until this past summer, and we're looking at the Mavericks giving up on an asset before it has fully matured.

I've said this before and I'll say it again--Wang will be better than LaF.

seelenjaeger · 10-01-2002, 10:09 AM

Even if you might be right Kiki, isn´t it the real deal if Wang will be better than Raef IF he stays with the Mavs?

I just don´t see him developing here ...

Dooby · 10-01-2002, 10:35 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but Wang is older than Kandi. He ain't 21. Big men may be slow to develop, but that doesn't apply when you are already 25. Playing in China and missing training camps, summer leagues and the early part of seasons did not slow his development, it stalled Wang's development. The delay forfeited that time for Wang to develop; he will never get it back.

You need to get over the notion that when Wang is not in a Mavs uniform, he is in some sort of cryogenic tube where he does not age or develop bad habits by playing inferior competition.

Wang won't show Dirk-like progress over the next two to three years; Dirk had a 4 year jump on him.

MavKikiNYC · 10-01-2002, 11:19 AM

<< Correct me if I am wrong.. >>

Gladly, Dooby. ;-)

Wang just turned 25, Kandi is 27.

I disagree with you about him having irretrievably lost the opportunity to develop, but I do think that what he shows this year will be a strong indicator of how far he'll ultimately develop.

I also see the effect of having played against lesser competition differently. I don't see it so much as having developed bad habits; rather it's that he hasn't had the opportunity to learn to react to faster, stronger players who jump higher. If Wang were 30, I would be more skeptical about his ability to catch up. But at 25, I think he's still young enough, plus he's just starting to experience the NBA-style training regimen.

I don't expect to see Dirk-like progress. Players like Dirk are very, very rare...once every 10 years maybe. But Wang won't have to improve NEARLY that much to overtake LaF. And of that proposition I feel a lot more confident.

Finally, the comparison above was Wang to Redd, and what the Mavericks were willing to pay for one versus the other. I still think that players like Redd are a LOT easier to find, than raw-skilled big men like Wang. If they're willing to take a $9 million hit for a Redd, they HAVE to be willing to take a $4 million shot for Wang (if reports of a 3-year, $6 million deal are correct).

I like the pursuit of Redd though as long as it's IN ADDITION TO Wang, and not INSTEAD OF him.

madape · 10-01-2002, 11:32 AM

There is more than money involved with Wang. If it were simply about money, I'm sure the Mavs would match the offer. But it is much more complicated. China's interest here cannot be overlooked. The Mavs relationship with China could be damaged if they match, preventing them from capitalizing on future scouting and player negotiations. If the relationship remains strong, China may still force Dallas to play Wang more than they want - i.e. big minutes in a playoff series (sound familiar). To be honest, the Mavs could be a better team now and down the road if Wang were to leave. That's what this is all about, not the piddley 3 year $6 million contract.

MavKikiNYC · 10-01-2002, 11:47 AM

Interesting thoughts, Madape. I keep thinking there's more involved than Wang's piddling salary too. But I'm not sure it's about maintaining the relationship with the CBA.

For one thing, I've never heard anything about the CBA trying to influence Wang's playing time. If it had, I expect we'd have seen more of him by now, which IMO wouldn't be a bad thing. But if anything I think he's been UNDERUTILIZED. Do you know any more about this?

Secondly, if the CBA is willing to exert that kind of influence, why would the Mavericks be interested in maintaining a good relationship with them for FUTURE prosepcts. Wouldn't they be likely to face the same interference in the future? If Yao Ming were a couple of years away from being available, I might buy the idea that they had some balance-of-power changing prospect in their radar. But I don't think that prospect is out there. Given the attention that Wang, Batteer and Ming have gotten, I'd think if there were imminent prospects over there, we'd have heard some buzz. Anyone you've heard of?

So, there may be something keeping the Mavericks from fully pursuing what's in their best interest basketball wise. We'll probably have to wait to understand the extent of things though.

madape · 10-01-2002, 12:01 PM

I won't claim to know a lot about who's being developed right now in China, I can only use common sense to conclude that there will be many many many great players come out of the country in the coming years. There are over three billion people in the country, and China has just recently caught basketball fever. Think about how much time and money NBA teams spend on scouting American high school players. There could be about 500 times as many kids playing basketball in China. That being said, you can't just send a scout across the Pacific and have him sit down in the stands of a Chinese youth tournament. You sure as hell can't send an agent over there with a college scholarship and a pair of Nikes in hand and expect to start negotiating. There is a lot of diplomacy needed to even get in the door, much less get to the point where the Mavericks are. That seems to be the game Dallas is playing. I doubt the Clippers are thinking that way. In five years, who do you expect to have the better Chinese basketball player on their roster? The Clippers or the Mavericks?

Blonde Bomber · 10-01-2002, 01:14 PM

Here is another article off ESPN.COM

Mavericks sign Redd to offer sheet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Redd

Milwaukee's Michael Redd, arguably the most enticing name still on the free agent market, signed a three-year offer sheet worth an estimated $12 million Tuesday with the Dallas Mavericks.

Redd, however, is a restricted free agent, and the Bucks have maintained all summer that they are intent on keeping him.The Bucks have 15 days to match the Mavericks' offer for Redd, who emerged last season as one of the league's top 3-point shooters.

The issue for the Bucks is economic. Kevin Poston, Redd's agent, said the Dallas offer is for "a little less" annually than the $4.5 million mid-level salary-cap exception. Matching that offer will push the Bucks into luxury-tax territory -- and, as Poston notes, "The luxury tax has been a sore spot for (Bucks owner) Sen. (Herb) Kohl."

By signing a three-year deal, Redd will be an unrestricted free agent with full Larry Bird rights in the summer of 2005, no matter which team he winds up with.

"Either way, it's going to be OK for Michael," Poston said. "I don't think Michael can lose with either team."

While small forward is a position of need for the Mavericks -- as evident by their pursuit of Seattle's Rashard Lewis -- Redd's importance to the Bucks has never been greater. Earlier in the offseason, Milwaukee dealt Glenn Robinson to Atlanta, increasing expectations on Redd and Tim Thomas.

"At the end of the day, he'll be with us," Grunfeld said of Redd earlier this week. "I just don't know which day."

The Mavericks are also faced with the prospect of matching an offer to a restricted free agent of their own. Wang Zhizhi of China signed a three-year offer sheet worth roughly $6 million with the Los Angeles Clippers.

MavKikiNYC · 10-01-2002, 01:31 PM

Has Stein's status with DMN changed? If so, he was the last voice over there who ever had anything of interest to say about the Mavericks. If Valade is the 'journalist' who's going to provide primary coverage for the DMN, then there's little reason to visit their site.
In fact, the traditional media outlets in Dallas seem to be doing a poorer job now than ever before at covering the Mavericks. What gives?

Similarly, something must've changed between nba.com and yahoo.sports. The link on that site has been removed.

Dooby · 10-01-2002, 01:40 PM

Stein is now a full-time employee of ESPN; he no longer writes for the DMN.

Valade is all we got. I would have thought the DMN would have brought somebody in but I have not seen it.

dude1394 · 10-01-2002, 01:49 PM

<< Valade is all we got. >>

Heaven help us all, her last little tidbit about 12 players has been blown to heck, 16 in camp.

day1 · 10-01-2002, 04:56 PM

<< Is Redd worth more than Wang though? >>

I see a three-way deal emerging.
Redd (Milwaukee) -> Dallas, Wang (Dallas) -> LA Clippers, ? (Clippers) -> Milwaukee

So the real question is:
Which Clipper does Milwaukee want? What extra stuff will each team have to package
up to make it work?

I think Dallas could afford to give up Wang and a 2nd round draft pick for Redd.
The Clippers will have to send a 1st round pick and a couple of their bench players.

David · 10-01-2002, 05:33 PM

<<

<<

<< Is Redd worth more than Wang though? >>

My feelings on Wang are known. I don't think Wang and Redd are mutually exclusive, but if I had to pick one, I'd take Redd right now. I don't believe in Wang's potential. Redd averaged more points/game; has played in more games; and played the US game in college. Plus he is 2 years younger. >>

Lol this is exactly what ive been saying but i keep getting bashed for saying this. I think Wang could be a good player but I dont think he is gonna be anything mroe than what he is now. Id take Redd also and I didnt understand why others wouldnt either I assume its upside but Redd is also improvin too.

By the way isnt Redd a 2nd roudner too? Where are all these 2nd round guys comin from like Lewis and Redd and Mavs never seem to get 1 lol. >>

"The Mavs never seem to get one lol." Wang was a 2nd round pick, also. "lol"

Nellie · 10-01-2002, 05:46 PM

Signing Redd is a good move regardless of the Wang situation. Redd is good enough that he has to be respected from the outside leaving Finley, Nash, and Dirk to be able to float. If you don't respect Redd, he will kill you. Plus he provides a solid back-up who can score to Finley which has been badly needed for years. Fin can't go on playing 40+ minutes a game or he will wear down quickly. Redd is an answer to this problem and could stretch Finley's value for a couple more years.